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Doxa

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slewan

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Doxa

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slewan

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wesley
(…)
This album compares to Bob Dylan's two modern classics from the 2000s; Modern Times and Time out of Mind, at least I still play them continuously.

hahaha – joke of the year.

The biggest difference between Hackney Diamonds and Time Out Of Mind as well as Love & Theft is that Hackney Diamonds in in the vein with a lot of things the Stones done before while Time Out Of Mind as well as Love & Theft break away from almost everything Dylan has done before. Those two Dylan albums offer a complete new sound and feeling while Hackney Diamonds is a rather typical Stones/Jagger album. That doesn't mean it's bad, of course.

Why a joke? Those two Dylan albums are modern classics - well, at least TIME OUT OF MIND non-disputed is, released 26 years ago - but not because Dylan, once again, re-invented himself, but because those are great albums. Like HACKNEY DIAMONDS is.

Re-inventing oneself is not a guarantee of greatness in itself or even a value of its own. It is the quality of the results that matter.

- Doxa

you're surely right – re-invention oneself and/or taking new directions is no guarantee for anything.
But I still think it's a joke to compare Hackney Diamonds to TOOM.
1. As I said before TOOM added something fresh to Dylan's works. I don't think that can be said of Hackney Diamonds.
2. it is way too early to tell if Hackney Diamonds will stand the test of time. I completely understand that anyone (including me) tends to overrate new albums by their favorite artists when they are first released. As far as I remember quite a few Stones albums were hailed as the best since Some Girls (just as new Dylan albums tend to be hailed as the best since Blood On The Tracks (or – nowadays – the best since TOOM). So it's a kind of joke to me compare a new album on it's release day with stuff that has surely stood the test of time.

So is the point that if one has something negative to say in its release day it is more valid than saying something positive about it? So one can be more objective about seeing the crap than the gold there? The former observation will stand the test of time better?

In my book, feeling at the moment like HACKNEY DIAMONDS is OUT OF MY MIND caliber masterpiece is as valid as feeling it is not. My stance is Carpe Diem: who cares about what one feels like about the album some day in future, if it feels wonderful now. We might not live then. Be wesley's instinct impression whatever, I don't find much point in trying 'objectively' to prove why a 1997 Dylan album must be superior in the very release day of a new Stones album. What's the point really? Personally, I don't give a flying fvck about how TODAY RELEASED new Stones album compares to an old Dylan album (that, by the way, happens to be one of my personal all-time favourites).

- Doxa

my point is not about saying anything postive or negative about new album. But I'd carefully to rate a new album shortly after it's release. It takes time to judge. Rating on the first day(s) is like judging things while (still) being drunk. I understand that people like to shoot from their hips – but shooting from your hip is not a very wise move

It's very good, and much better than A Bigger Bang. What really stands out is how great both Mick and Keith's voices sound. I don't know if that is due to technological wizardry or they really sound like that, but it's fantastic, especially Keith the diehard smoker.

Wish they'd put Mick Taylor on something instead of Elton and Ga Ga....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-20 17:19 by Bliss.

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Mathijs

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LondonLee
Not a great album, in fact far from it, and feels very much like a mixture of a Mick solo album with a mixture of Stones tracks that weren't released because they weren't deemed decent enough to be put on a B side.

4 excellent tracks - Angry, Sweet sounds... , Tell me Straight and Rolling Stones Blues but for me the rest I'm happy to have listened to and will do so every now and again but seldomly.

I know we couldn't expect something akin to them at their best and should be amazed that men in or near their 80s can still make an album like that but it's not even as good as being a 'Stones by Numbers album'.

Far from being the best output since Some Girls, for me this is the worst record since Dirty Work and, whisper it quietly, I probably prefer that to be honest.

So you listen to Whole Wide World and you think 'mmmm, that's mediocre'?

Mathijs

Mediocre? No, but it's a great Mick solo album song, not a great Stones track. It's an average Stones track.

It also reminds me of something off Madness's 'Liberty of Norton Folgate' album and as much as I do like Madness, The Stones are far better than that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-20 15:08 by LondonLee.

Puzzles me how folks can listen to a new album a couple of times and feel able to fully assess it in the context of other albums they've been listening to for years.

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Spud
Puzzles me how folks can listen to a new album a couple of times and feel able to fully assess it in the context of other albums they've been listening to for years.

Genuine and unloaded question: Does that also apply to those who are praising the album?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-20 15:23 by LondonLee.

I don't compare this new album with other ones. Why should I? All their album albums has something unique or special. You can't please everyone so please be happy that they still make records and if you don't like it don't buy or listen to it.
For now I'm really happy with this new record

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LondonLee

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Spud
Puzzles me how folks can listen to a new album a couple of times and feel able to fully assess it in the context of other albums they've been listening to for years.

Genuine and unloaded question: Does that also apply to those who are praising the album?

Yes it does ...though I always feel that any cerebral analysis of music is pointless .
Music is something that you feel the quality of when you listen.

For each of us the true arbiter of quality can only be how much we enjoy it .

None of us can speak for others and our views are all true for ourselves.

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LondonLee

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Spud
Puzzles me how folks can listen to a new album a couple of times and feel able to fully assess it in the context of other albums they've been listening to for years.

Genuine and unloaded question: Does that also apply to those who are praising the album?

That's a fair point, Lee. I've yet to only skim through the Hackney Diamond tracks, so cannot say much. However, thinking back to Blue & Lonesome: I loved it very much upon the first few listens; I was genuinely impressed. I haven't listened to said album since the month of it's release. What I'm getting at, is that it should take a while to really form an opinion. Some are already hailing Hackney Diamonds, whilst some, such as you, are more dismissive. Either way, it'll take time. My initial enthusiasm for Blue & Lonesome didn't evolve into an enduring appreciation; you're reservations over Hackney Diamonds may turn into an enduring love for it Let's all give it a little longer... from both sides of the fence!

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Spud

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LondonLee

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Spud
Puzzles me how folks can listen to a new album a couple of times and feel able to fully assess it in the context of other albums they've been listening to for years.

Genuine and unloaded question: Does that also apply to those who are praising the album?

Yes it does ...though I always feel that any cerebral analysis of music is pointless .
Music is something that you feel the quality of when you listen.

For each of us the true arbiter of quality can only be how much we enjoy it .

None of us can speak for others and our views are all true for ourselves.

Shame we can't 'like' posts on here as that would have got a



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-20 15:36 by LondonLee.

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Big Al

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LondonLee

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Spud
Puzzles me how folks can listen to a new album a couple of times and feel able to fully assess it in the context of other albums they've been listening to for years.

Genuine and unloaded question: Does that also apply to those who are praising the album?

That's a fair point, Lee. I've yet to only skim through the Hackney Diamond tracks, so cannot say much. However, thinking back to Blue & Lonesome: I loved it very much upon the first few listens; I was genuinely impressed. I haven't listened to said album since the month of it's release. What I'm getting at, is that it should take a while to really form an opinion. Some are already hailing Hackney Diamonds, whilst some, such as you, are more dismissive. Either way, it'll take time. My initial enthusiasm for Blue & Lonesome didn't evolve into an enduring appreciation; you're reservations over Hackney Diamonds may turn into an enduring love for it Let's all give it a little longer... from both sides of the fence!

Also consider that Exile was rated rather bad by critics when it was released

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Big Al

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LondonLee

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Spud
Puzzles me how folks can listen to a new album a couple of times and feel able to fully assess it in the context of other albums they've been listening to for years.

Genuine and unloaded question: Does that also apply to those who are praising the album?

That's a fair point, Lee. I've yet to only skim through the Hackney Diamond tracks, so cannot say much. However, thinking back to Blue & Lonesome: I loved it very much upon the first few listens; I was genuinely impressed. I haven't listened to said album since the month of it's release. What I'm getting at, is that it should take a while to really form an opinion. Some are already hailing Hackney Diamonds, whilst some, such as you, are more dismissive. Either way, it'll take time. My initial enthusiasm for Blue & Lonesome didn't evolve into an enduring appreciation; you're reservations over Hackney Diamonds may turn into an enduring love for it Let's all give it a little longer... from both sides of the fence!

It's going to be fascinating to see how opinions change or become entrenched

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goingmad

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Doxa
I guess there is not much better things in the world to do than listening to a new Rolling Stones album. No hurry to judge or evaluate anything, just let the music flow and do its magic. No reason to compare, no reason to analyse, no reason show its place in the history of the Stones or pop music in general. No, just to take it as an art piece of its own, The Rolling Stones presented here and now. Just keep one's ears and mind open. Let it grow on you, let its nuances and patterns, all those choices and ideas, little by little, after more and more listening, come to more and more familiar, to be grasped in their full glory.

So I don't feel like reviewing anything yet, nor sharing any of occasional impressions of its highs or lows here. Those days will come, but no hurry - I just enjoy the very process of where I am now. Feel privileged. And happy.

But while doing that, it is funny to reflect the impressions and feelings one goes through. I find myself in a dilemma that is based on following this band over forty years and knowing their music, legacy and everything thru and thru, way better than probably is reasonable for a sane person. The mountain of references from the past is out of this world and it affects on every observation. There is no way to avoid conservatism here. The conceptual scheme to interpret any new content shared by this band is heavy like hell, and there is no way of avoiding bias. One immediately recognizes the familiar elements (good or bad) and mind goes hastily making cozy but probably unfair comparisons. That is safe game, easy to do, happens by instinct. Pure conservatism. But at the same time are traits that are novel and odd - how to come in terms of them? How to interpret them? Mind is not ready for them. They might sound odd, since they conflict with the expectations (prejudices actually). And in each tune both of those two elements are present. Of course, in some tunes the other has a bigger role than the other.

So listening a new Stones song - any of them - is like trying to make sense of the confusion made by there the two elements - the mix of familiar and cozy content with something novel. It takes time to get grasp it, you know, how is the song like in its own terms. But it is, let me repeat, a lovely process, and I enjoy every sec of it.

- Doxa

You're right. I'm enjoying this album, but it's true, there are old references of “what a Stones album should sound like” and at the same time they have added some new ingredients, new melodies, etc.

My Rolling Stones fan mentality needs to adapt to these developments, but I appreciate the changes and the effort they have made.

Yeah, you put that better - lesser words, that is - than I did. I sometimes feel like if the fanbase - including myself - of the last decades, and each one having sort of an own idea 'how the ideal Stones should sound like' (a kind of conservative idea based on their past achievements), would never manage go through the 60's or the 70's now, since the band kept on evolving and changing all the time. People would be horrified . But that was their second nature at the time (and the fans, like the whole culture, were similar - but not all of them: ROLLING STONE review of STICKY FINGERS complained that they did not sound as 'real' as they did in, say, ROLLING STONES NOW!). They still have something of it in themselves. Not much, but still a bit - and probably enough to make fans confused.

But that sort of conservatism of a fanbase is a result of all that history, and it is not a bad thing by any means; 60 years is a helluva long period and it amounts to something.


- Doxa

As Jagger himself said .. paraphrasing .. that he had to tell an Andrew Watt to stop trying to recreate Sticky Fingers as The Stones HAD already created it.

Rod

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Spud
Puzzles me how folks can listen to a new album a couple of times and feel able to fully assess it in the context of other albums they've been listening to for years.

I’m one who, I’m sort of ashamed to say, listens to something ONCE. If it doesn’t grab me, it’s on the shelf, or deleted from my Apple Music library, never listened to again. Or very rarely.

I’ve listened to Hackney Diamonds at least 15 times in the past 22 hours (Australia!!). It’s grabbed me.

But I HATE the mess that is Mess it Up, it sounds like 3 completely separate songs cut and pasted together, and sacrilege, Bite My Head Off is clearly the next worse on the record. An ordinary song “tizzied” up by McCartney’s wonderful bass. But even THAT can’t save it.

Rod

this album is great it hooks me, i didnt have that feeling with BTB and ABB. thats the good thing about music, everybody have different feelings about. i am very happy with hackney!

Does anyone else feel as though they prefer Mick's voice/vocals without effects (not sure what to call them, feel free to correct) but instead just a clean, unaltered take?

After first listen, only two tracks have grabbed me: tell me straight and driving me too hard.

Regardless, always good to see them releasing new music. Nothing stays the same forever.

I’m still very interested to know where on the album Keith plays the piano he’s credited with. Anyone have a clue/idea? Or better yet, KNOW?

Rod

What amazes me is that at least half the album could be released as singles. When could we last say that?!

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bitusa2012
I’m still very interested to know where on the album Keith plays the piano he’s credited with. Anyone have a clue/idea? Or better yet, KNOW?

Driving me too hard.

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bitusa2012
I’m still very interested to know where on the album Keith plays the piano he’s credited with. Anyone have a clue/idea? Or better yet, KNOW?

I don’t know if he’s credited, but that’s definitely him on Tell Me Straight. More or less the same Floyd Cramer-esque licks he plays on This Place Is Empty.

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bitusa2012
I’m still very interested to know where on the album Keith plays the piano he’s credited with. Anyone have a clue/idea? Or better yet, KNOW?

Sounds like him on Tell Me Straight (right channel on the «Everyone is asking questions-parts).

He is credited (along with Matt) on Driving Me Too Hard.

It seems the IG videos from last night are being taken down. Or is it just me not able to play them? YouTube videos are working fine.

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slewan

my point is not about saying anything postive or negative about new album. But I'd carefully to rate a new album shortly after it's release. It takes time to judge. Rating on the first day(s) is like judging things while (still) being drunk.

Wait...I thought people usually get drunk at album launch parties!

I'm on my 3rd listen of the album - there are a lot of gems on it and it seems no filler, unlike ABB and most albums.

Jagger said they don't want to boast but they are very proud of the new record and I can see why.

You don't have to try hard to enjoy it.

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DandelionPowderman

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bitusa2012
I’m still very interested to know where on the album Keith plays the piano he’s credited with. Anyone have a clue/idea? Or better yet, KNOW?

Sounds like him on Tell Me Straight (right channel on the «Everyone is asking questions-parts).

He is credited (along with Matt) on Driving Me Too Hard.

Ah thanks. I’ll drill down here.

Rod

Got to say I really wasn't expecting this to be so good. I am delighted with early listenings. There wasn't a single track that I thought "oh dear this one is pretty bad".

There are some really catchy sing along choruses (something I think Jagger does much better than verses as time has gone on ie over the last 40 years!).

I can understand some of the scepticism as people are guarded against getting too excited on release day and then realising it doesn't have lasting value but I hope and think this album as a whole will stand the test of time.

Finishing with Rolling Stone Blues was an absolute master stroke, the most perfect way to bookend a marvellous career. I was singing along and punching the air with delight at how good and appropriate the choice was - master craftsmen paying homage to the music and the very song which they drew inspiration from and influenced their life's work. Stunning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-20 16:44 by redkev.

I've listened to HD 3 times, and in its entirety since this morning.
I've tried to forget for a while any reference to the golden age, which for me means 1968 to 1974. It's always tempting or too easy, and there's not much point. The same applies to the Stones and many others bands: a new album starts with a handicap, the 3 or 4 masterpieces are 100 meters ahead, and the others, and almost inevitably the new one, are in the pack 100 meters.. back.

HD is a good album, with a real desire and energy. But desire is what best sums it up for me. Others here have talked about urgency, and they're right. For the better for some, and I'm one of them, Watt's contribution is pretty crucial. The guy has opened the windows wide, and given the band some oxygen, that's obvious. The rhythm section is solid, a beautiful wall of sound. Mick is very forward in the mix, overdriving a bit at times, technology at work, but what a singer!

Angry is a very good opener, not up to the level of Start Me Ups in my opinion, sorry, which will remain the last real hit for some time yet.

I like Get Close. The saxophone and Keith's impeccable rhythm, it takes off. The only downside is Mick's unbearable "You" in "Lose / Get get close tu You", nasal, forced, mannered as if he was pursing his lips.

Depending on You, not for me. A mawkish pop ballad, but no big deal.

Bite my Head Off, angry Jagger, I like it. Paul's presence is symbolic, you can't hear his voice. I mean him or Keith on bass, it's all the same. Great energy. Great solo.

Whole Wide Word, good riff, the song is a bit off with the chorus, but it's a good Stones track.

Dreamy Skies, a little roots gem, the emotion is there, suggested, when it's imposed in the very dispensable Depending on You. Superb.

Mess It Up: the worst track on the album for me, it goes nowhere, so I pass, to never come back again.


Live by the sword: toes tapping, great groove, Elton, good job. Well done.

Driving me Too Hard: oh but the intro is Tumbling Dice, ah no, actually. It's a good track, not a great one, but but she sees me again on the Goats Head Soup album. Great.

Tell me Straight. So, how can I put this, yes Mick on backing vocals, moving, well put together, but Keith for pity's sake, a mid-tempo rock please on the next album... Beautiful voice.

Sweet Sound Of Heaven. This one is my favourite, Lady Gaga imperial, the 7-minute gamble, Stevie's subtle playing (I think of Nicky Hopkins), those little touches as delicate as raindrops (Moonlight Mile). Superb.

Rolling Stones Blues. I walk into a smoky room, oh excuse me guys. No no, come in. I put my butt down. Pan. Wonderful.

HD is a good album : 14/20.
Thanks to the Stones. Ride on Charlie (and Hairball).

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-21 09:53 by powerage78.

Decided not to wait for the mail and went to Walmart at 6am for the 1 copy they had in.. Just finished listening to the entire album and at first listen Dreamy Skies is my favorite, almost difficult to listen to in a small way, a guy/band asking for privacy who was such a large part of my youth, Enjoyed the album at first listen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-20 16:54 by snoopy2.

This is, with very little exception, 99% a Mick solo record. Sure, Keith and Ronnie probably played the guitars, but there isn't one single song here that would have made the cut for even Voodoo Lounge much less Bridges or Steel Wheels. It simply does not sound like the Stones because it's not the Stones.

Knives out at pitchfork.

4.5/10

[pitchfork.com]

There’s just 2 tracks I don’t like. Mess it Up (hideous) and Bite My Head Off, just.. JUST.. ok.

The rest of the record? Well, that a bunch of late 70 year olds (remember, Mick did not record this at 80yo!) is just staggering. This late in their illustrious career?

To come up with an album of, in truth, such consistent quality is pretty wonderful.

The only nagging question I have, and it’ll come across as a weird criticism I guess, but having heard Keith playing over recent years on stage, and again the Angry live version at tonight’s club show, is everyone convinced that Keith DOES play all the guitar riffs/licks/solos on the record??

There’s a fluency to them that seems to bely Keith’s abilities. Perhaps? I’d love to be wrong … oh I dunno.

Rod