Quote
hockenheim95

Streets of Love and Rough Justice were both released as a double single before the Release. Blue and Lonesome had 3 singles before album Release.

Blue & Lonesome has one physical 10 inch release "Ride 'Em Down" the others must have been digital releases.

Quote
VoodooLounge13

I don't count a Double A side as multiple singles. Didn't realize B&L had so many before it's release. Guess I've just thoroughly erased that period from my Stones' memory bank!!! Are any of the others available for purchase in physical format anywhere? I only have Ride 'Em Down I believe....

Blue & Lonesome has one physical 10 inch release "Ride 'Em Down" the others must have been digital releases.

Quote
powerage78

Quote
Stoneage
I have a feeling this is another Jagger solo album with some Richards riffs added to it. Maybe Keith has one or two songs on it after all? And Woody none?

Yes, a Jagger album, tired of waiting for Keith...

Exactly that.

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
Stoneage
I have a feeling this is another Jagger solo album with some Richards riffs added to it. Maybe Keith has one or two songs on it after all? And Woody none?

If Jagger wouldn't have pre-written all those songs for Keith and Ronnie to play on them we still wouldn't have any album at all. If that's what you prefer you can just not listen to it.

Thanks for the advice, but we don’t actually know anything just yet. Why don’t we wait and let our ears be the judge?

And the presupposition that Mick writes everything because no one else does is simply not supported by any evidence (that we have publicly, anyway).

So what do you think is the reason that Mick wrote most of the songs on HD? Because he dislikes anything that Keith does so much that he doesn't give Keith room on the album?

The facts are - and that is confirmed by lots of interviews over the years - that Mick is still very prolific these days and wrote hundreds of songs while Keith is not.

Keith even replied to an interviewer that asked him if he also writes as much as Mick something like:

"Being prolific don't mean a shit. I have three riffs and they are dynamite"

I’m not prepared to apportion credits on the new album until I’ve heard it.

What we do know is that Mick likes to write on his own; he said as much in the most recent interview with Tom Power. Keith prefers to write with someone else. It doesn’t follow from that that Keith has no ideas at all.

Quote
MelBelli

I’m not prepared to apportion credits on the new album until I’ve heard it.

They both admitted in various interviews that Mick wrote most of the songs initially and then Keith helped to further shape the arrangements.

From the recent telegraph interview with Keith:

Quote

Richards doesn’t hesitate to give Jagger full credit for the existence of the new album. “Sitting around during Covid, doing nothing, Mick stocked up a lot of lyrics and ideas,” Richards explains. “He said: ‘Let’s make a record, find a deadline, take it from A to B’. Which is very un-Stones like. I was a little sceptical, but I said, OK, if you think you have enough stuff, I’m with you all the way.”

“I had very little input in the ­lyrics, but a lot of input in how the tracks were shaped, building riffs around what Mick had. I was interested in capturing his enthusiasm. The urgency and speed with which we did this amazed me. Bam! There’s a good take, next!”

If you don't believe what Mick and Keith say then there's nothing I can do about it



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-24 21:16 by StonedRambler.

It's also worth noting that Mick saved his 100+ demos for the Stones album instead for a solo album.

Keith could have also saved the Crosseyed Heart songs for the Stones but he didn't (except for "One More Shot"). Keith could have given those songs to the Stones but he decided against that.

Amazing how much I have to defend Mick here for writing as much as he does and giving those songs to the Stones. If he would stil wait for Keith writing songs we wouldn't have an album now.

Quote
StonedRambler
Keith even replied to an interviewer that asked him if he also writes as much as Mick something like:

"Being prolific don't mean a shit. I have three riffs and they are dynamite"

Yeah, the three dynamiote riffs! Whatever happened to them we will possibly never learn. Not even, if they survived onto HD at all.

I'm no expert in determining who wrote (or contributed what to) what in the Stones, but maybe it's time to admit that already in the past Mick's part in the songwriting was perhaps bigger then one sometimes likes to believe?

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

I’m not prepared to apportion credits on the new album until I’ve heard it.

They both admitted in various interviews that Mick wrote most of the songs initially and then Keith helped to further shape the arrangements.

From the recent telegraph interview with Keith:

Quote

Richards doesn’t hesitate to give Jagger full credit for the existence of the new album. “Sitting around during Covid, doing nothing, Mick stocked up a lot of lyrics and ideas,” Richards explains. “He said: ‘Let’s make a record, find a deadline, take it from A to B’. Which is very un-Stones like. I was a little sceptical, but I said, OK, if you think you have enough stuff, I’m with you all the way.”

“I had very little input in the ­lyrics, but a lot of input in how the tracks were shaped, building riffs around what Mick had. I was interested in capturing his enthusiasm. The urgency and speed with which we did this amazed me. Bam! There’s a good take, next!”

If you don't believe what Mick and Keith say then there's nothing I can do about it

“Building riffs” could be interpreted many ways. Why don’t you just wait and hear the album for yourself?

We have absolutely no basis to believe that Mick waited on input from Keith. You have no idea how many ideas Keith has banked over the years, and I don’t either.

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
keefriffhards
So if everything is down to the will and determination of Jagger does that explain the 18 year absence of a Stones album, 18 years of slow minimal to non existent creativity ??

Did that mean if Keith had a creative period during those 18 years and Keith wanted to make an album but Mick wasn't interested because he didn't have the will to provide Keith with any collaboration, could that explain why we didn't get a Stones Studio album in all that time, it also explains why Keith made Crosseyed Heart without Mick, Crosseyed Heart could have been a fantastic Stones album.

We don’t know anything for certain from where we sit, but, yes, I believe that has been the crux of the issue. At least as of the last seven or eight years. The rupture that “Life” caused and Keith’s brief flirtation with retirement — that’s a different story.

But I believe we would’ve gotten an album much sooner than this if Keith had been willing to get steamrolled again, a la A Bigger Bang.

Maybe Mick ran out the clock and it happened again on this new record. I don’t think so, but I will wait to hear it with my own ears.

So far it seems to be very similar to ABB with Keith adding "fairy dust" (his words) to Mick's tracks. Could be better input of course and Angry is certainly very encouraging in this respect. For ABB he did say he'd dropped RJ on Mick on top of TPE and (the useless) Infamy. Nothing similar for HD so far and he's had the opportunity to do it, so...
The difference is that uber fan and producer AW, who apparently didn't see his mission as keeping peace between M&K, got to pick from 100 songs and according to Ronnie did a great job. Don Was didn't have that luxury in 2004/2005 and it's possible he wouldn't have known what to do with them anyway given his track record with the Stones...

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

am I correct to see a difference between ABB and HD sessions in real studio time work versus overdubbing on files sent across the ocean?

I have weak memories of 2005 and did not re-search

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

I’m not prepared to apportion credits on the new album until I’ve heard it.

They both admitted in various interviews that Mick wrote most of the songs initially and then Keith helped to further shape the arrangements.

From the recent telegraph interview with Keith:

Quote

Richards doesn’t hesitate to give Jagger full credit for the existence of the new album. “Sitting around during Covid, doing nothing, Mick stocked up a lot of lyrics and ideas,” Richards explains. “He said: ‘Let’s make a record, find a deadline, take it from A to B’. Which is very un-Stones like. I was a little sceptical, but I said, OK, if you think you have enough stuff, I’m with you all the way.”

“I had very little input in the ­lyrics, but a lot of input in how the tracks were shaped, building riffs around what Mick had. I was interested in capturing his enthusiasm. The urgency and speed with which we did this amazed me. Bam! There’s a good take, next!”

If you don't believe what Mick and Keith say then there's nothing I can do about it

“Building riffs” could be interpreted many ways. Why don’t you just wait and hear the album for yourself?

I'm not the one complaining. I'm just citing what Mick and Keith said: Mick pre-wrote all the songs and Keith helped building the arrangements. I am personally looking forward to the songs Mick wrote and think Keith will have added some great guitar work.

How can "building riffs around what Mick had" be interpreted in many ways? It's completely clear that the inital songwriting (=lyrics and melody) came mostly from Mick.

Quote
MelBelli
We have absolutely no basis to believe that Mick waited on input from Keith. You have no idea how many ideas Keith has banked over the years, and I don’t either.

Then where are those ideas that Keith might have "banked over the years"? The new Stones album is mostly Mick songs as we know now. If Keith had many songs that could keep up with Micks he surely would have insisted that they make the record.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-24 22:24 by StonedRambler.

Holy cow, I am not complaining, either.

It very well may be the case that Hackney Diamonds is a mostly Mick album.

All I’m saying is that no one — not you, not I — knows exactly why that is the case. For all we know, Mick rejected Keith’s ideas during the off-and-on recording sessions from 2015 through 2019. Keith said very pointedly after Crosseyed Heart came out that he believed the album gave him “leverage” to say “Come on, Rolling Stones.” I took that to mean very plainly that he wanted Mick to sit down and write with him, eye to eye. When Keith says he has “three dynamite riffs” and that “prolific don’t mean shit,”you have to view it in that context.

Eight years have passed. That leverage apparently came and went or never existed in the first place. In the end, Mick gets his way.

Which doesn’t mean that Hackney Diamonds won’t be good! I like what I’ve heard so far.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-24 22:47 by MelBelli.

Quote
MelBelli
For all we know, Mick rejected Keith’s ideas during the off-and-on recording sessions from 2015 through 2019.

Now that is one huge claim. I have never read that. Do you have any sources / quotes to proof that claim?

Quote
MelBelli
It very well may be the case that Hackney Diamonds is a mostly Mick album.

All I’m saying is that no one — not you, not I — knows exactly why that is the case.

What else could be the cause except Keith not actively writing anymore?

You really think Keith (who has also quite a big ego) would let it happen that all of his songs are rejected and then play on Micks songs? No way.

Of course we don't know the cause but you really just have to add one plus one together here.

Quote

I took that to mean very plainly that he wanted Mick to sit down and write with him, eye to eye.

As Mick said in the recent Canadian interview they live on different continents and that Keith doesn't do Zoom calls or anything like that. Flying over the Atlantic for a writing session is not how creativity works. Songs have to be created when the initial spark is still hot and songwriting cannot be planned like a tour. The whole "Mick and Keith writing in one room together" worked great when they were spending all their time and almost each day together but nowadays that's not how it is, they just see each other a few times per year.
For Keith that just seems to be an excuse to not write anything at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-24 23:12 by StonedRambler.

Yes: I have absolutely no problem believing that Keith subsumes his own ego in order to perpetuate the existence of the Stones, the thing that he loves more than anything in the world, including himself.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe that Keith working with Steve in New York was designed as a workaround to Mick’s resistance to writing like the old days (not to mention living on different continents).

What became of those sessions is anyone’s guess.

Quote
MelBelli
Yes: I have absolutely no problem believing that Keith subsumes his own ego in order to perpetuate the existence of the Stones, the thing that he loves more than anything in the world, including himself.

Let me put that in other words - you think it's possible that Mick denied all of Keith's songs (and Keith going along with it) and that is the reason we mostly have Mick songs on the album?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-24 23:25 by StonedRambler.

btw: next single out on Friday?

Yes.

I think there’s a chance that Keith had something to do with the two tracks that Charlie is on.

But of the nine tracks they chose to work on with Andrew Watt under a deadline — yes, I could easily imagine Mick rolling over Keith under those circumstances.

Quote
MelBelli
Yes: I have absolutely no problem believing that Keith subsumes his own ego in order to perpetuate the existence of the Stones, the thing that he loves more than anything in the world, including himself.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe that Keith working with Steve in New York was designed as a workaround to Mick’s resistance to writing like the old days (not to mention living on different continents).

What became of those sessions is anyone’s guess.

As you say MelBelli, it's best to wait and see what the album sounds like first, what's encouraging is now its finished we observe Mick and Keith close and supportive, Keith even saying in a recent interview that he and Mick love each other.
All this talk of Mick dominating the album and having lyrics and ideas ready made might not mean another Mick solo Stones album if Keith has worked hard on this album ( and i believe he has) this album just might be the collaboration we have all been waiting for, Keith might have added rather more than just fairy dust to this album, if the second half of Angry is anything to go by Keith is all over Micks ideas and lyrics like an old man possess with energy and passion.

Quote
MelBelli

But of the nine tracks they chose to work on with Andrew Watt under a deadline — yes, I could easily imagine Mick rolling over Keith under those circumstances.

Do any quotes exist to support that assumption?

I cannot by any means imagine Keith letting that happen.

Yes at this stage and with Keith apparently not actually writing songs anymore it's the best we can hope for, Keith liking Mick's ideas as selected by Andy Watt and working his a$$ off on them, editing, adding, playing great bass, etc...in theory in wouldn't deserve a writing credit but since anything written by either of them and recorded by the Stones is going to be signed Jagger/Richards it's a moot point.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

But of the nine tracks they chose to work on with Andrew Watt under a deadline — yes, I could easily imagine Mick rolling over Keith under those circumstances.

Do any quotes exist to support that assumption?

I cannot by any means imagine Keith letting that happen.

The same number of quotes as exist to support the assumption that Keith Richards doesn’t write songs anymore.

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

But of the nine tracks they chose to work on with Andrew Watt under a deadline — yes, I could easily imagine Mick rolling over Keith under those circumstances.

Do any quotes exist to support that assumption?

I cannot by any means imagine Keith letting that happen.

The same number of quotes as exist to support the assumption that Keith Richards doesn’t write songs anymore.

As for Keith not being prolific these days we got these exact quotes:

Quote
Keith Richards
I've got a few songs on the back burner and so does Mick - he writes a lot. I don't. I tend to concentrate on two or three really interesting riffs or ideas, rather than being prolific.

Quote
Keith Richards
Being prolific don't mean s**t. I've got three songs and they're dynamite

So what quotes are there so support your assumption of Mick refusing to record Keith's songs? That is all speculation on your side. The fact that Keith ain't writing much and Mick does is confirmed by various interviews from Mick and Keith over the years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-25 00:06 by StonedRambler.

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
powerage78

Quote
Stoneage
I have a feeling this is another Jagger solo album with some Richards riffs added to it. Maybe Keith has one or two songs on it after all? And Woody none?

Yes, a Jagger album, tired of waiting for Keith...

Exactly that.

In the Fallon interview, Keith said they were waiting for Mick... Mick didn't dispute it.

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

But of the nine tracks they chose to work on with Andrew Watt under a deadline — yes, I could easily imagine Mick rolling over Keith under those circumstances.

Do any quotes exist to support that assumption?

I cannot by any means imagine Keith letting that happen.

The same number of quotes as exist to support the assumption that Keith Richards doesn’t write songs anymore.

As for Keith not being prolific these days we got these exact quotes:

Quote
Keith Richards
I've got a few songs on the back burner and so does Mick - he writes a lot. I don't. I tend to concentrate on two or three really interesting riffs or ideas, rather than being prolific.

Quote
Keith Richards
Being prolific don't mean s**t. I've got three songs and they're dynamite

So what quotes are there so support your assumption of Mick refusing to record Keith's songs? That is all speculation on your side. The fact that Keith ain't writing much and Mick does is confirmed by various interviews from Mick and Keith over the years.

Good grief, man, you’re treating these quotes like they’re sworn affidavits.

But if you insist on taking Keith at face value there, focusing on two or three good ideas at a time can add up over the course of decades.

And I believe Keith is very diplomatically intimating that most of Mick’s demos are … not good. And judging from what Mick has released on social media, he is not wrong.

I don't think you can really pinpoint one reason why it took so long for a new studio album to be released, and whose fault that may or may not be. There are so many different factors that come into play. All the planets just happen to have to be just right before a new Rolling Stones album can be forged under clear moonlight.

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

But of the nine tracks they chose to work on with Andrew Watt under a deadline — yes, I could easily imagine Mick rolling over Keith under those circumstances.

Do any quotes exist to support that assumption?

I cannot by any means imagine Keith letting that happen.

The same number of quotes as exist to support the assumption that Keith Richards doesn’t write songs anymore.

As for Keith not being prolific these days we got these exact quotes:

Quote
Keith Richards
I've got a few songs on the back burner and so does Mick - he writes a lot. I don't. I tend to concentrate on two or three really interesting riffs or ideas, rather than being prolific.

Quote
Keith Richards
Being prolific don't mean s**t. I've got three songs and they're dynamite

So what quotes are there so support your assumption of Mick refusing to record Keith's songs? That is all speculation on your side. The fact that Keith ain't writing much and Mick does is confirmed by various interviews from Mick and Keith over the years.

Good grief, man, you’re treating these quotes like they’re sworn affidavits.

But if you insist on taking Keith at face value there, focusing on two or three good ideas at a time can add up over the course of decades.

And I believe Keith is very diplomatically intimating that most of Mick’s demos are … not good. And judging from what Mick has released on social media, he is not wrong.

If giving you the exact quotes won't change your assumption here then nothing will.

Anyway, I think it's great that Mick provided his 100+ songs for this album and he got Keith to get along with it. Otherwise we would still write in the "New album out in 2023?" thread waiting on Keith's dynamite riffs to add up for enough songs to fit on an album.

Quote
gotdablouse
Yes at this stage and with Keith apparently not actually writing songs anymore it's the best we can hope for, Keith liking Mick's ideas as selected by Andy Watt and working his a$$ off on them, editing, adding, playing great bass, etc...in theory in wouldn't deserve a writing credit but since anything written by either of them and recorded by the Stones is going to be signed Jagger/Richards it's a moot point.

Exactly. It's the best thing that could have happened in their situation.

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

But of the nine tracks they chose to work on with Andrew Watt under a deadline — yes, I could easily imagine Mick rolling over Keith under those circumstances.

Do any quotes exist to support that assumption?

I cannot by any means imagine Keith letting that happen.

The same number of quotes as exist to support the assumption that Keith Richards doesn’t write songs anymore.

As for Keith not being prolific these days we got these exact quotes:

Quote
Keith Richards
I've got a few songs on the back burner and so does Mick - he writes a lot. I don't. I tend to concentrate on two or three really interesting riffs or ideas, rather than being prolific.

Quote
Keith Richards
Being prolific don't mean s**t. I've got three songs and they're dynamite

So what quotes are there so support your assumption of Mick refusing to record Keith's songs? That is all speculation on your side. The fact that Keith ain't writing much and Mick does is confirmed by various interviews from Mick and Keith over the years.

Good grief, man, you’re treating these quotes like they’re sworn affidavits.

But if you insist on taking Keith at face value there, focusing on two or three good ideas at a time can add up over the course of decades.

And I believe Keith is very diplomatically intimating that most of Mick’s demos are … not good. And judging from what Mick has released on social media, he is not wrong.

If giving you the exact quotes won't change your assumption here then nothing will.

Anyway, I think it's great that Mick provided his 100+ songs for this album and he got Keith to get along with it. Otherwise we would still write in the "New album out in 2023?" thread waiting on Keith's dynamite riffs to add up for enough songs to fit on an album.

Which exact quote? That Keith likes to focus on two or three songs at a time? You leap from there to the conclusion that he doesn’t write anything at all.

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

But of the nine tracks they chose to work on with Andrew Watt under a deadline — yes, I could easily imagine Mick rolling over Keith under those circumstances.

Do any quotes exist to support that assumption?

I cannot by any means imagine Keith letting that happen.

The same number of quotes as exist to support the assumption that Keith Richards doesn’t write songs anymore.

As for Keith not being prolific these days we got these exact quotes:

Quote
Keith Richards
I've got a few songs on the back burner and so does Mick - he writes a lot. I don't. I tend to concentrate on two or three really interesting riffs or ideas, rather than being prolific.

Quote
Keith Richards
Being prolific don't mean s**t. I've got three songs and they're dynamite

So what quotes are there so support your assumption of Mick refusing to record Keith's songs? That is all speculation on your side. The fact that Keith ain't writing much and Mick does is confirmed by various interviews from Mick and Keith over the years.

Is everything that comes out of your mouth complete fiction.
Keith doesn't write songs anymore?
What are you talking about.
Where do you get it that Mick writes more than Keith, have you forgotten Crosseyed Heart.
What Mick has wrote in recent years is substandard material not worthy of a Stones album.
Keith likes to write with Mick or Steve, if Mick hasn't wanted to write with him until recently that doesn't mean Keith doesn't or can't write anymore or hasn't got a lot of material, how would you know what Keith has in the can, maybe another solo album who's to say.

Quote
keefriffhards

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

Quote
StonedRambler

Quote
MelBelli

But of the nine tracks they chose to work on with Andrew Watt under a deadline — yes, I could easily imagine Mick rolling over Keith under those circumstances.

Do any quotes exist to support that assumption?

I cannot by any means imagine Keith letting that happen.

The same number of quotes as exist to support the assumption that Keith Richards doesn’t write songs anymore.

As for Keith not being prolific these days we got these exact quotes:

Quote
Keith Richards
I've got a few songs on the back burner and so does Mick - he writes a lot. I don't. I tend to concentrate on two or three really interesting riffs or ideas, rather than being prolific.

Quote
Keith Richards
Being prolific don't mean s**t. I've got three songs and they're dynamite

So what quotes are there so support your assumption of Mick refusing to record Keith's songs? That is all speculation on your side. The fact that Keith ain't writing much and Mick does is confirmed by various interviews from Mick and Keith over the years.

Is everything that comes out of your mouth complete fiction.
Keith doesn't write songs anymore?
What are you talking about.
Where do you get it that Mick writes more than Keith, have you forgotten Crosseyed Heart.
What Mick has wrote in recent years is substandard material not worthy of a Stones album.
Keith likes to write with Mick or Steve, if Mick hasn't wanted to write with him until recently that doesn't mean Keith doesn't or can't write anymore or hasn't got a lot of material, how would you know what Keith has in the can, maybe another solo album who's to say.

Wow...you sure do take it personally. Are you actually Keith? You shouldn't take it so hard.