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SomeGuy
Writing the lyrics isn't the same as writing the songs.

It is if the lyrics lead to the melody.

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Jackda

I can't bear most of Mick's 75%+ songs (except BS, YCAGWYW, Doom and Gloom), but since I LOVE 90% of the others (Keith's work)....

If you can't bear Mick's songs I am really sorry for you because the new album consists mostly of Mick's songs.

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doitywoik

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DandelionPowderman

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frankotero
GHS was all Mick, I didn’t know it.

It wasn't.

Mr D, CDA, Angie, ST, Star Star weren't all Mick.

I have read somewhere that Angie (plus a few others) were written by Keith while in Switzerland.

Of course Angie is Keith work (like Wild Horses or Beast Of Burden, just in case...) He just meant that Mick is running after those gems for decades, he gave many tries all uglier than the others (Streets of Love, Out of Tears.........)

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StonedRambler

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Jackda

I can't bear most of Mick's 75%+ songs (except BS, YCAGWYW, Doom and Gloom), but since I LOVE 90% of the others (Keith's work)....

If you can't bear Mick's songs I am really sorry for you because the new album consists mostly of Mick's songs.

Maybe, but for the first time EVER, Mick admitted he's let Keith making HUGE "arrangements" and it took him "many days in studio"...

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maumau

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Mariuana

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maumau

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Mariuana

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maumau

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StonedRambler

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big4
All the people on here complaining about another album of Mick-written songs and Keith not very involved or involved enough, just getting one Keith ballad he sings and a rocker he doesn't. Are we talking about Goat's Head Soup or the yet-released Hackney Diamonds? Because everything y'all are saying just as easily applies to GHS.

Also on Some Girls which consists mostly of Mick songs.

And also Sticky Fingers - Brown Sugar, Sway, Sister Morphine, Moonlight Mile are all Mick songs. Keith doesn't even play on Sway and Moonlight Mile!

I'm not trying to discredit Keith here, but it's amazing how many people here discredit Micks creativity.

Sister Morphine is a Marianne Faithfull song

She wrote just couple of lines and came up with exact title "sister Morphine", "cousin Cocaine". The rest is Mick.

right, that's enough for the Twins to cool down and give Faithfull her credits... good try, try again

I dunno what the hell that supposed to mean but hey, it's your assumptions vs Mick's exact words and guess who is more credible here

What that means is that it is your assumption vs Marianne's version (that got co-writing credit for a song from the Twins - not exactly an easy task as we know) and that she has continued to play and record the song as one of hers.

guess who's more credible

That's insane if you think it's just my assumptions - go and read Jagger Remembers interview from 1995 to refresh your memory.
As for Faithful's statement that it was all her, she changed this story many times. First it was she co-wrote it, then she co-wrote just lyrics, then she found Mick's handwritten lyrics for the song and completed it, then she said she wrote everything and now you are trying to say she wrote the music too and Jagger did nothing at all? Well, bit of some fantasies from your part.

Who knows ? Maybe Keith has given himself a new challenge ? Trying to do as good as his own songs listed below, starting this time from Mick's "raw material" ?

Rocker : Gimme Shelter, Street Fighting Man, Satisfaction, Tumbling Dice, Honky Tonk Women, Start Me Up, JJF, Love Is Strong, Happy, Connection, Before They Make Me Run, Heartstopper, Wicked As It Seems......

Ballads: Wild Horses, Angie, Hate It When You Leave, Almost Hear You Sigh, Beast Of Burden....

Yes, who knows ? Maybe he loves him so much that he wants to help him to write really good music ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-25 22:29 by Jackda.

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keefriffhards

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StonedRambler

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keefriffhards

hate to brake your bubble mate but Jagger is a poacher, a fake, he's never managed to make anything like those tracks after Taylor left.

The guts you have to say something like that on a Stones forum. Clearly a provocation

You tell me then, has he ever managed to produce music at that level since Taylor left, it's not controversial, it's a conversation that's been discussed since iorr started, just listen to those tracks, it's obvious to me, nothing provocative about it.

I can't believe the crap you come out with about Keith, far more provocative.
I'm out of here, can't believe the shit people like you come out with.

What you're talking about is, of course, subjective, but it's also 100% bias: you've dismissed everything post-1974. Which makes it strange that you're even on this fan board and commenting about a new Stones album yet alone anything post-1974.

As a fan of all, eh, 5 eras now, but really it's 1-3 that's being compared, objectively there are songs from 1976-2005 that are just as good as any Mick Taylor era song - or, as you put it - at that level.

"No they're not."

Actually, they are. The issue some people have, their stuck in stone point of view, is difference. Change.

What makes a song good? What makes a song great?

It's not sales. If it was the Stones would probably not even be in the Top 40 of all time sales for a band/artist. In fact... their biggest selling LP ever, SOME GIRLS, sits at #543 in terms of all time sales with, currently, from my understanding, 6,315,000 copies sold.

[bestsellingalbums.org] (look at what outsold EOMS ha ha)

So they're far from the best selling album from a band in music history. But it is one of their best LPs. The best? For someone it is. It's not for me (that would be TATTOO YOU, followed very closely by LET IT BLEED, STICKY, and then it starts to open up with GHS, BEGGARS, EOMS, U, SG, B&B, IORR, ER, BRIDGES, AFTERMATH, OOOH and BT.

Critically and historically their best albums are the Taylor albums, which is really STICKY-IORR. Yeah technically he's on LIB but he wasn't involved and that's Keith's album anyways.

Absolutely there's some garbage songs on quite a few albums, mostly the later ones. Some of them are Mick songs. Oh well. It's not like Infamy is being played in bars from jukeboxes around the world and is very likely not on any playlist anywhere.

And of course there are some garbage albums with some great songs on them. There is not one Stones album that is 100% garbage though. Even DIRTY WORK has some great material on it.

I happen to think Can You Hear The Music and If You Really Want To Be My Friend are amazing songs. Neighbours and She Saw Me Coming are fantastic, too. It seems that a majority of fans here don't care for those 4 songs.

That's never made me want to quit or accuse anyone of being whatever. Some people like Might As Well Get Juiced, Oh No Not You Again, Streets Of Love and Sweet Neo Con. Ehhhh. I kinda get the first three but Sweet Neo Con is really bad.

It doesn't matter. And never has the thought of IF MICK TAYLOR ONLY PLAYED ON THEM THEY'D BE... that's just ridiculous. They're just not good songs.

Taylor era fans don't really seem to care for Short And Curlies. I love it. But, you know, I should, right? Because it's Mick Taylor, man.

There's an era within the Ronnie Wood era that is definitive, and that's SOME GIRLS-UNDERCOVER. After that they faded him out. There's nothing definitive post-U from Ronnie other than some pedal steel and slide playing (and covering for Bill on STEEL WHEELS). There's more Jagger guitar than Ronnie in the mix.

The band changes. Either change with or be stuck. You're stuck. Yet you're apparently unhappy that people love post-Taylor Stones.

So it goes.

Good luck. Enjoy The 1964-1974 Rolling Stones.

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Mariuana
That's insane if you think it's just my assumptions - go and read Jagger Remembers interview from 1995 to refresh your memory.
As for Faithful's statement that it was all her, she changed this story many times. First it was she co-wrote it, then she co-wrote just lyrics, then she found Mick's handwritten lyrics for the song and completed it, then she said she wrote everything and now you are trying to say she wrote the music too and Jagger did nothing at all? Well, bit of some fantasies from your part.

there's nothing insane, Mariuana. I reacted because I see that after more than 50 years someone on a Stones fan forum deprives yet once again Faithfull of her writing credits for that song, "her Frankenstein" as she called it.

Faithfull tells her version in her bio, with plenty of details and, of course, there she gives credit to Mick for the melody

And that is just that: to say that SM is a just a "Mick's song" is, at the best, an assumption based on his version

And then, objectively, she got credited even by the Twins for her part and that, for my 40 years of being fan of this band and my understanding of them, is more than telling

peace



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-25 22:50 by maumau.

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Jackda
Who knows ? Maybe Keith has given himself a new challenge ? Trying to do as good as his own songs listed below, starting this time from Mick's "raw material" ?

Rocker : Gimme Shelter, Street Fighting Man, Satisfaction, Tumbling Dice, Honky Tonk Women, Start Me Up, JJF, Love Is Strong, Happy, Connection, Before They Make Me Run, Heartstopper, Wicked As It Seems......

Ballads: Wild Horses, Angie, Hate It When You Leave, Almost Hear You Sigh, Beast Of Burden....

Yes, who knows ? Maybe he loves him so much that he wants to help him to write really good music ?

Almost all those songs were cowritten with Mick .They are not solo Keith songs except Happy.

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Taylor1

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Jackda
Who knows ? Maybe Keith has given himself a new challenge ? Trying to do as good as his own songs listed below, starting this time from Mick's "raw material" ?

Rocker : Gimme Shelter, Street Fighting Man, Satisfaction, Tumbling Dice, Honky Tonk Women, Start Me Up, JJF, Love Is Strong, Happy, Connection, Before They Make Me Run, Heartstopper, Wicked As It Seems......

Ballads: Wild Horses, Angie, Hate It When You Leave, Almost Hear You Sigh, Beast Of Burden....

Yes, who knows ? Maybe he loves him so much that he wants to help him to write really good music ?

Almost all those songs were cowritten with Mick .They are not solo Keith songs except Happy.

All Rolling Stones songs are signed Jagger/Richards since forever.
Even those that come from Talk Is Cheap sessions (Almost Hear You Sigh, for example Jagger/Richards/Jordan). Even those which the one or the other admitted publicly it was the other guy's song.

Of course Mick may have written most of the lyrics of the songs I have listed. But, I was talking about music composition.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-25 23:08 by Jackda.

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Mariuana

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maumau

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Mariuana

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maumau

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Mariuana

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maumau

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StonedRambler

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big4
All the people on here complaining about another album of Mick-written songs and Keith not very involved or involved enough, just getting one Keith ballad he sings and a rocker he doesn't. Are we talking about Goat's Head Soup or the yet-released Hackney Diamonds? Because everything y'all are saying just as easily applies to GHS.

Also on Some Girls which consists mostly of Mick songs.

And also Sticky Fingers - Brown Sugar, Sway, Sister Morphine, Moonlight Mile are all Mick songs. Keith doesn't even play on Sway and Moonlight Mile!

I'm not trying to discredit Keith here, but it's amazing how many people here discredit Micks creativity.

Sister Morphine is a Marianne Faithfull song

She wrote just couple of lines and came up with exact title "sister Morphine", "cousin Cocaine". The rest is Mick.

right, that's enough for the Twins to cool down and give Faithfull her credits... good try, try again

I dunno what the hell that supposed to mean but hey, it's your assumptions vs Mick's exact words and guess who is more credible here

What that means is that it is your assumption vs Marianne's version (that got co-writing credit for a song from the Twins - not exactly an easy task as we know) and that she has continued to play and record the song as one of hers.

guess who's more credible

That's insane if you think it's just my assumptions - go and read Jagger Remembers interview from 1995 to refresh your memory.
As for Faithful's statement that it was all her, she changed this story many times. First it was she co-wrote it, then she co-wrote just lyrics, then she found Mick's handwritten lyrics for the song and completed it, then she said she wrote everything and now you are trying to say she wrote the music too and Jagger did nothing at all? Well, bit of some fantasies from your part.

I always snicker about the claims of other people ( Jones,Taylor,Wyman,Faithful ) writing Stones songs but not getting credit. None of them ever wrote a song outside of the Stones worth a damn but they want you to believe they wrote all these classic songs for the Stones.
They don’t have any problem crediting Ron Wood and he can write songs.

GasLightStreet, you are putting me in a box with your assumptions, i love evey album the Stones have made, stuff on Black & Blue , Some Girls , ER, Tattoo You, Undercover, Steel Wheels even Dirty Work and Voodoo Lounge that i love listening to, and the list goes on, but no way are those albums as good as that magical era of creativity from the late 60's early 70s, ( regardless of EOMS poor sales it's still their best album to my ears) but what band has ever achieved that level of genius for a longer period, it just doesn't happen unless your name is Bob Dylan.
So sorry for my outburst, its all good really isn't it with the new album coming out, it's exciting regardless of who features more or who's songs are better, it's Mick and Keith and they're still doing it aren't they, I'm taking a time out from here to listen to the album without people from here ruining it.

what is this the third page on this tired off topic discussion

does anyone actually have any thoughts about the new album?

The main aim of the album recording documentary: to make you forget the 18 years of waiting, to show that everything was done quickly and easily... This song: composed in an hour, yes.
Expect the "one take" refrain.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

Maybe some people here are privileged and heard the album. The rest of us are spinning our wheels claiming to know something

i'm really glad that they didn't decide to release this rather short album as a double vinyl album like blue and lonesome

to be frank i don't listen to my blue and lonesome vinyl much because having a 40 something minute album split over 4 sides is just an unreasonable amount of effort for so little music

and on a side note

i also hope we eventually get a cassette of this album too

i really enjoy my copies of crosseyed heart, ghs deluxe, and tattoo you deluxe and would love to add this album to the collection

Guys, to stop this endless discussion:

Sweet Sounds Of Heaven out on Thursday, 28. September

5pm BST

Written by Mick Jagger / Keith Richards
Feat. Lady Gaga on Vocals & Stevie Wonder on Piano, Rhodes & Moog

Steve Jordan: Drums
Matt Clifford: B3 Organ
Andrew Watt: Bass, Backing Vocals
James King: Saxophone
Ron Blake: Trumpet

First snippet on Instagram: [www.instagram.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-26 00:36 by StonedRambler.

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StonedRambler
Guys, to stop this endless discussion:

Sweet Sounds Of Heaven out on Thursday, 28. September

Written by Mick Jagger / Keith Richards
Feat. Lady Gaga on Vocals & Stevie Wonder on Piano, Rhodes & Moog

Steve Jordan: Drums
Matt Clifford: B3 Organ
Andrew Watt: Bass, Backing Vocals
James King: Saxophone
Ron Blake: Trumpet

Finally!

andrew watt on bass?

was hoping for keith again



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-26 00:35 by ProfessorWolf.

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StonedRambler
Guys, to stop this endless discussion:

Sweet Sounds Of Heaven out on Thursday, 28. September

5pm BST

Written by Mick Jagger / Keith Richards
Feat. Lady Gaga on Vocals & Stevie Wonder on Piano, Rhodes & Moog

Steve Jordan: Drums
Matt Clifford: B3 Organ
Andrew Watt: Bass, Backing Vocals
James King: Saxophone
Ron Blake: Trumpet

First snippet on Instagram: [www.instagram.com]

Nice!

video: [youtube.com]
New single! It's nice to have Stevie and Lady Gaga joining on a Rolling Stones song.

[Keep on rolling]

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Cristiano Radtke

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StonedRambler
Guys, to stop this endless discussion:

Sweet Sounds Of Heaven out on Thursday, 28. September

5pm BST

Written by Mick Jagger / Keith Richards
Feat. Lady Gaga on Vocals & Stevie Wonder on Piano, Rhodes & Moog

Steve Jordan: Drums
Matt Clifford: B3 Organ
Andrew Watt: Bass, Backing Vocals
James King: Saxophone
Ron Blake: Trumpet

First snippet on Instagram: [www.instagram.com]

Nice!

I am excited for this song!

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ProfessorWolf
andrew watt on bass?

was hoping for keith again

Amazing how some great news is coming up and some people immediately find something to be negative about.

Gotta hear Andrew's bass playing first before you can dislike it.

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maumau

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Mariuana
That's insane if you think it's just my assumptions - go and read Jagger Remembers interview from 1995 to refresh your memory.
As for Faithful's statement that it was all her, she changed this story many times. First it was she co-wrote it, then she co-wrote just lyrics, then she found Mick's handwritten lyrics for the song and completed it, then she said she wrote everything and now you are trying to say she wrote the music too and Jagger did nothing at all? Well, bit of some fantasies from your part.

there's nothing insane, Mariuana. I reacted because I see that after more than 50 years someone on a Stones fan forum deprives yet once again Faithfull of her writing credits for that song, "her Frankenstein" as she called it.

Faithfull tells her version in her bio, with plenty of details and, of course, there she gives credit to Mick for the melody

And that is just that: to say that SM is a just a "Mick's song" is, at the best, an assumption based on his version

And then, objectively, she got credited even by the Twins for her part and that, for my 40 years of being fan of this band and my understanding of them, is more than telling

peace

Where did I say it was "Mick's song" may I wonder? You said it was Marianne Faithful who wrote this song and I mentioned she just wrote some of it but you started this fight over pretty much nothing. Mick said it was just a couple of lines, Keith said she helped writing it, she herself said it was Mick's melody he kept on strumming on guitar and she just build and shaped words around his melody - so why exactly you keep on insisting it was HER song? Because she recorded it lately as hers? Well she once said As Tears Go By was hers too, so what?
As for credits, she once said they did good thing not crediting her earlier because they knew she'd spend all money on drugs and then re-installed her credits when she got fully sober. It's been so many different stories from her through the years it's really weird to rely on any of them as a strong source.

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Musicwinn
video: [youtube.com]
New single! It's nice to have Stevie and Lady Gaga joining on a Rolling Stones song.

Not sure why YouTube allows this: the wholesale appropriation of someone else’s content with absolutely no value added.

The way Gaga sings “heaven” reminds me of the way she renders it on the song from Top Gun: Maverick (“Hold My Hand”): “I heard from the heavens …”

She can bring it.

The snippet sounds amazing, very promising!

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StonedRambler

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ProfessorWolf
andrew watt on bass?

was hoping for keith again

Amazing how some great news is coming up and some people immediately find something to be negative about.

Gotta hear Andrew's bass playing first before you can dislike it.

didn't mean to sound to negative sorry

just really liked keith's bass playing on angry and was hoping to hear more

i'm sure andrew is a more then a competent bass player and i'm really looking forward to the single

i assure you i'm not a member of the doom and gloom brigade here on iorr

i'm very excited for this album and the next!

in my opinion they haven't made a bad album yet and i don't think they'll start now

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ProfessorWolf

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StonedRambler

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ProfessorWolf
andrew watt on bass?

was hoping for keith again

Amazing how some great news is coming up and some people immediately find something to be negative about.

Gotta hear Andrew's bass playing first before you can dislike it.

didn't mean to sound to negative sorry

just really liked keith's bass playing on angry and was hoping to hear more

i'm sure andrew is a more then a competent bass player and i'm really looking forward to the single

i assure you i'm not a member of the doom and gloom brigade here on iorr

i'm very excited for this album and the next!

in my opinion they haven't made a bad album yet and i don't think they'll start now

All good, don't worry! Also liked Keith's bass playing on Angry and looking forward to hear the other tracks he plays bass on.

As for "Sweet Sounds of Heaven" - we know from the recent interview with Stevie Wonder that they tracked the basic instrument tracks live playing together in one room. That means if Keith was playing guitar someone else had to play bass - and it seems it was Andrew in this case.