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Rockman
Yeah well about these ....anybody know their sitar makes & models ????

Probably a cheap model like the one George Harrison used on Norweigan Wood. George bought his first sitar at a store in London called "India Craft" and this was also the first sitar that Brian tried to play. Maybe he bought his own at the same store the next day?

His Majesty, are you following this thread?
[www.tdpri.com]
worth the admission anyway ;-)

Majesty, check out the pictures of the Satanic sessions on the new Mankowitz book "Out Of Their Heads", there's several clear pictures of the Telecaster. It appears to me like all colouring is right -white shirts and white piano keys are white, sunburst is sunburst etc, and in these pics the Telecaster is unmistakingly Sonic Blue.

Mathijs

I guess that means the guitar Brian is shown using for the JJF promo is a different tele then.

In this thread there are shots of Brian playing electric 12 string on stage. What songs did he play this on?

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Palace Revolution 2000
In this thread there are shots of Brian playing electric 12 string on stage. What songs did he play this on?

It's All Over Now = Vox 12 string

Mother's Little Helper, Get Off of My Cloud = Rickenbacker



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-07-26 20:11 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
I guess that means the guitar Brian is shown using for the JJF promo is a different tele then.

You're serious?

Mathijs

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Mathijs

You're serious?

Mathijs

Er, yes!?

The photo of Brian is obviously not a sonic blue guitar.

So in that 1st shot they would be playing that song. I just never had heard a 12 string in the cut. Brian is on a C chord there and "Cloud" doesn't make sense.

And so Brian played the lead line on "Mother's Little Helper" later on in live shows?

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His Majesty

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Mathijs

You're serious?

Mathijs

Er, yes!?

The photo of Brian is obviously not a sonic blue guitar.

We have many pictures where it's sonic blue, some pictures where it's undefined grayish, then we have the new pictures in the new Mankowitz book which clearly shows it is sonic blue, and now suddenly there's two transition logo '66 maple necked Fender telecasters? I find that very hard to believe.

Mathijs

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Palace Revolution 2000
So in that 1st shot they would be playing that song. I just never had heard a 12 string in the cut. Brian is on a C chord there and "Cloud" doesn't make sense.

And so Brian played the lead line on "Mother's Little Helper" later on in live shows?

Yup, there's definitely a 12 string on IAON. I didn't spot it either until Bill or someone mentioned it. But once you know to listen for it, it jumps out to my ears.

Brian used the rickenbacker 360 for both GOOMC and MLH during the final 66 USA tour and yup, he used a slide for the distinctive sitar like lick. Keith claims to have played that on the studio version though, something I'm a bit dubious about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-07-26 20:06 by His Majesty.

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Mathijs

We have many pictures where it's sonic blue, some pictures where it's undefined grayish, then we have the new pictures in the new Mankowitz book which clearly shows it is sonic blue, and now suddenly there's two transition logo '66 maple necked Fender telecasters? I find that very hard to believe.

Mathijs

Maybe both Brian and Keith were given a tele each!? They did get 2 reverse firebirds.

I can not believe I had never thought about this whole subject. Went and listened to a bunch of early 60's live recordings; also the TV shows that were live - anyway sounds like Brian used that sound quite a bit on their soul numbers. When he would do the straight picking on the chords. Songs like "If you need me", "Cry to Me", "That's how strong my love is", "Play with Fire". I wonder if he even used it some on "Time is on my side"; haven't gotten to that one yet.

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Palace Revolution 2000
I can not believe I had never thought about this whole subject. Went and listened to a bunch of early 60's live recordings; also the TV shows that were live - anyway sounds like Brian used that sound quite a bit on their soul numbers. When he would do the straight picking on the chords. Songs like "If you need me", "Cry to Me", "That's how strong my love is", "Play with Fire". I wonder if he even used it some on "Time is on my side"; haven't gotten to that one yet.

Hmm, I don't hear it on that many tracks, plus a couple of the tracks you mention he doesn't play guitar on.

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His Majesty

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Palace Revolution 2000
I can not believe I had never thought about this whole subject. Went and listened to a bunch of early 60's live recordings; also the TV shows that were live - anyway sounds like Brian used that sound quite a bit on their soul numbers. When he would do the straight picking on the chords. Songs like "If you need me", "Cry to Me", "That's how strong my love is", "Play with Fire". I wonder if he even used it some on "Time is on my side"; haven't gotten to that one yet.

Hmm, I don't hear it on that many tracks, plus a couple of the tracks you mention he doesn't play guitar on.

True; though keep in mind I am listening to live versions, and I am beginning to think that Brian did not stick to one specific instrument for a song. Looks like he really did experiment a good bit even in live setting. I was listening to a show called Top gear from (I think) 65 and then a 66 Australian and New Zealand tour. definitely that guitar on "Need Me" and "Cry To Me". On "THSMLI" - is that him playing organ?
But "Play with Fire" is actually the most intriguing. Do you think he ever played percussion on stage? Or one of the more exotic reed instruments? The sound quality is so bad; there is only one guitar, and there COULD be extra pounding, there could be some sustained note back there too.

Yup he played organ on THSMLI.

I'm not aware of him playing any instruments live other than, guitar, electric dulcimer, organ, harmonica and recorder.

There are pics of him playing tambourine.

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His Majesty
Yup he played organ on THSMLI.

I'm not aware of him playing any instruments live other than, guitar, electric dulcimer, organ, harmonica and recorder.

There are pics of him playing tambourine.

I think Brian played tambourine (as well as guitar/harmonica and singing!) on that great 1964 NME Poll Show!!

Didn´t he ever play sitar on Paint It Black live?

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His Majesty
Yup he played organ on THSMLI.

I'm not aware of him playing any instruments live other than, guitar, electric dulcimer, organ, harmonica and recorder.

There are pics of him playing tambourine.

Yeah, I only meant that he might have been experimenting with different guitars from show to show. IMO Brian's guitar playing is not that well documented; he is often low in the volume.

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rootsman

Didn´t he ever play sitar on Paint It Black live?

Never seen or heard anything which supports that.

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rootsman
Didn´t he ever play sitar on Paint It Black live?

No, not even when he actually is seen playing the sitar. Always playback or singback.
When they performed the song on Sullivan the sitar was in such shape that he wouldn't be able to play it anyway. The bridge was way misplaced.

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Palace Revolution 2000
IMO Brian's guitar playing is not that well documented; he is often low in the volume.

Or worse - like in the R&R Circus for example where is not heard in the mix at all (at least not in the official version).

I'm not a guitar expert, but I love this thread.

Question: How many of Brian's guitars are still floating around? It seems to me they have all vanished or just been lost. I've heard stories of Keith having several.

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His Majesty
Brian used the rickenbacker 360 for both GOOMC and MLH during the final 66 USA tour and yup, he used a slide for the distinctive sitar like lick. Keith claims to have played that on the studio version though, something I'm a bit dubious about.

Oh c'mon! How can you doubt Keith? Just kidding. I've long suspected that the 'oriental' lead on the studio version of MLH was Brian on sitar. Most people thought it was Brian until Keith claimed in 2003 that it was in fact him playing the lick via 'beat-up' 12-string on slide. It don't sound like a slide guitar to me.

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neptune

Oh c'mon! How can you doubt Keith? Just kidding. I've long suspected that the 'oriental' lead on the studio version of MLH was Brian on sitar. Most people thought it was Brian until Keith claimed in 2003 that it was in fact him playing the lick via 'beat-up' 12-string on slide. It don't sound like a slide guitar to me.

I thought it was a sitar for years, until I read Keith's comment and had a close listen. Also compared it to Brian playing it live... exact same sound!

There's no sitar on there, tis definitely a 12 string with a slide. I reckon Keith was mis remembering a tad though with regards to who actually played it.

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neptune

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His Majesty
Brian used the rickenbacker 360 for both GOOMC and MLH during the final 66 USA tour and yup, he used a slide for the distinctive sitar like lick. Keith claims to have played that on the studio version though, something I'm a bit dubious about.

Oh c'mon! How can you doubt Keith? Just kidding. I've long suspected that the 'oriental' lead on the studio version of MLH was Brian on sitar. Most people thought it was Brian until Keith claimed in 2003 that it was in fact him playing the lick via 'beat-up' 12-string on slide. It don't sound like a slide guitar to me.

No, it's not a sitar. I have a sitar and it doesn't sound like that.
Nor is it an electric sitar (those came out a few years later).
It's a 12-string played with slide. Definitely a 12-string.
Listen to the middle section (Doctor, please...).
The 12-string plays some little licks in this section.
However, are Brian and Keith both playing acoustic on this?
And I wonder who does that volume swell in the intro?

Good question about those swells. To me there would be no doubt that it is some guitar doing those swells in the intro; except for the fact that in the same channel throughout the song there is a faint pedal tone; a kind of drone that goes on. Almost like the swell kind of settles into the drone.

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Palace Revolution 2000
Almost like the swell kind of settles into the drone.

I think that might be the air conditioning in the studio and/or the hum of amps etc.

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His Majesty
I thought it was a sitar for years, until I read Keith's comment and had a close listen. Also compared it to Brian playing it live... exact same sound!

There's no sitar on there, tis definitely a 12 string with a slide. I reckon Keith was mis remembering a tad though with regards to who actually played it.

It's pretty funny that Brian has been credited several times for playing the sitar on Mother's Little Helper, Cool, Calm, Collected and Gomper. But I guess most people don't really know what a sitar sounds like. I also fell for it and still remember when I tried the get that sound out of my sitar only to fail totally.

I've never believed that it's anybody but Brian who played the eastern-riff on MLH. It seems like Keith tried to pull a McCartney with that statement.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2009-07-28 18:35 by tonterapi.

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tonterapi
Cool, Calm, Collected and Gomper.

He played his electric dulcimer on those.

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His Majesty
He played his electric dulcimer on those.

Yes, I know. But still many sources about the Stones says "sitar". It probably indicates the lack of notes from the actual recording sessions.

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His Majesty

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neptune

Oh c'mon! How can you doubt Keith? Just kidding. I've long suspected that the 'oriental' lead on the studio version of MLH was Brian on sitar. Most people thought it was Brian until Keith claimed in 2003 that it was in fact him playing the lick via 'beat-up' 12-string on slide. It don't sound like a slide guitar to me.

I thought it was a sitar for years, until I read Keith's comment and had a close listen. Also compared it to Brian playing it live... exact same sound!

There's no sitar on there, tis definitely a 12 string with a slide. I reckon Keith was mis remembering a tad though with regards to who actually played it.

I never thought it was a sitar but a 12-string with reverb delay effects until I read Keith's quote. But I always thought it was Brian who played it, and not Keith, it just doesn't like Keith at all.

Mathijs