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Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: March 11, 2021 15:25

Quote
rollmops
Quote
NilsHolgersson
Quote
KRiffhard
C'mon boys...some more work...chorus, backing vocals and a guitar solo. This song had a great potential!
[youtu.be]

I think The Undercover Stones are at risk of being banned to oblivion

A Jagger's demo/idea? I don't think Keith plays the rhythm guitar. Probably Mick J. does. Mick's voice is similar to his stage intonations of 1981-82. Punkish and barking; I like it.
Rockandroll,
Mops

Ron and Keith on guitar.

Mathijs

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Date: March 11, 2021 15:39

Quote
Taylor1
Desperate Man, Part of the Night,Dream On,Built that Way, She’s Doing her Thing, SanctuaryareImO the best songs.If they emerged worked on with further lyrics and musical embellishments they’d be excellent releases. Some songs are very disappointing.For years I have wanted to hear Curtis Meets Smoky, since Nico has listed it along with Old Glory ,Toss the Coin, and several others as coming from the Let it Bleed sessions.But it has none of the majic of the songs from that period.Likewise ,Walk on Wendy from the Sticky Fingers era is just a jam with Mick yelling over it.Most of the rest of theneesongs might have potential but are not worthy of release.Ron’s guitar and bass is great on IORR

Haven't listen that closely to it yet, but you are saying that this is a different bass take than Willie Weeks's take?

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: March 11, 2021 15:39

Quote
bitusa2012
Quote
Elmo Lewis
Quote
bitusa2012
Let me get this straight... they RELEASED Winning Ugly, Too Rude and Back to Zero, and left Deep Love in the can? Lilleywhite was not strong enough for them... after a few listens this track is one of the standouts for me.

How would you compare this to Bruce's "Tracks"?

Tracks, it isn’t. Bruce’s release WAS of finished tracks. This is not. Many are, many aren’t. And for me, a Bruce and Stones nutter, most of the songs on Tracks could have easily/should have easily been on Bruce’s albums from the era the songs came from. Few of The Stones songs on this dump could have replaced anything on the albums from The Stones of the eras they came from, apart from, to me Deep Love which should have been on Dirty Work. Nice collection, glad to have it. REALLY, REALLY glad to have it. But it’s NOT Tracks.

Yes, the stuff from The River sessions would have made another fine album. I made a best of Tracks CD and it stands up with the classic stuff.

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: Fully Finished out takes from Stones themselves ?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 11, 2021 15:56

Quote
Doxa
Quote
paulspendel
Does anyone have a view on how/if this affects ABKCO?

I guess they don't have much to say/claim... There's only "She's Doing Her Thing", "Blood Red Wine" and "Curtis Meets Smokey" supposedly technically belonging to their 'realm'. Surely old Klein would have made a helluva shit storm for that... But now, I guess all they can think is 'thanks a lot guys, we could have beefed up a bit SATANIC MAJESTIES, BEGGARS BANQUET and LET IT BLEED deluxe editions with those cuts' (and there surely are some more in the can, as we know..)

- Doxa

Thing is, because they remained officially unreleased for more than 50 years since being recorded those recordings ran out of copyright protection, in the EU ateast.


Edit: I looked in to this law a bit recently, apparently the artists can renew or regain copyright, but not the record company. Kinda the main point of that law, to stop labels forever denying musicians the chance to make money from unreleased recordings. Ie, the label has 50 years to do something with a recording they own and if they don't they lose copyright for them after 50 years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-11 16:10 by His Majesty.

Re: Fully Finished out takes from Stones themselves ?
Date: March 11, 2021 16:00

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Doxa
Quote
paulspendel
Does anyone have a view on how/if this affects ABKCO?

I guess they don't have much to say/claim... There's only "She's Doing Her Thing", "Blood Red Wine" and "Curtis Meets Smokey" supposedly technically belonging to their 'realm'. Surely old Klein would have made a helluva shit storm for that... But now, I guess all they can think is 'thanks a lot guys, we could have beefed up a bit SATANIC MAJESTIES, BEGGARS BANQUET and LET IT BLEED deluxe editions with those cuts' (and there surely are some more in the can, as we know..)

- Doxa

Thing is, because they remained officially unreleased for more than 50 years since being recorded those recordings ran out of copyright protection, in the EU ateast.

She's Doing Her Thing aka Title 15 might still be protected as it was officially released, minus vocals, on Exile deluxe.

On the dvd? Title 5, the surf-tune, was the audio track from that era for Exile Deluxe.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-11 16:03 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Fully Finished out takes from Stones themselves ?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 11, 2021 16:09

Woops, getting my titles mixed up. grinning smiley spinning smiley sticking its tongue out thumbs up

There we go then, ABKCO's copyright in EU atleast for Title 15 aka She's Doing Her Thing ran out in 2017.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-11 16:09 by His Majesty.

Re: Fully Finished out takes from Stones themselves ?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: March 11, 2021 16:55

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Doxa
Quote
paulspendel
Does anyone have a view on how/if this affects ABKCO?

I guess they don't have much to say/claim... There's only "She's Doing Her Thing", "Blood Red Wine" and "Curtis Meets Smokey" supposedly technically belonging to their 'realm'. Surely old Klein would have made a helluva shit storm for that... But now, I guess all they can think is 'thanks a lot guys, we could have beefed up a bit SATANIC MAJESTIES, BEGGARS BANQUET and LET IT BLEED deluxe editions with those cuts' (and there surely are some more in the can, as we know..)

- Doxa

Thing is, because they remained officially unreleased for more than 50 years since being recorded those recordings ran out of copyright protection, in the EU ateast.


Edit: I looked in to this law a bit recently, apparently the artists can renew or regain copyright, but not the record company. Kinda the main point of that law, to stop labels forever denying musicians the chance to make money from unreleased recordings. Ie, the label has 50 years to do something with a recording they own and if they don't they lose copyright for them after 50 years.

I looked into the law a bit as well, and what is clear is that is just totally complicated and different for just about each country. About this 50 years expiration date the only thing that is clear is that releases such as radio and TV broadcasts have copyrights expiring for the broadcaster after 50 years. Outtakes and unreleased material have expiration dates (e.g. 70 years for the author in most countries) but not for the publishing rights as the starting date is when the work is being published. Also the rights can be extended very easily -the Stones did that in I believe 2005, when they became directors of Promopub BV, with Promopub having eternal rights as they simply need to renew, much as a patent or license.

Mathijs

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 11, 2021 18:00

The EU directive is simple for this specific issue, publish a recording within 50 years of it being recorded or lose the rights to it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-11 18:47 by His Majesty.

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: March 11, 2021 18:27

It's not really complicated, it only gets complicated because people mix up songwriter's copyrights (including first release rights) with neighboring copyrights (performers, record companies) all the time - despite the fact that it all has been discussed here again and again in the past.

Only the latter (neighboring copyrights of performers, record companies) expire if they are not legally released within a period of 50 years in the EU, counting from the end of the year the actual recording of a performance took place. This does not affect the songwriter's copyrights because they usually expire 70 years after their death(s).

That means that while the recording of say, Rolling Stones in Paris 1965 is already in the public domain, if one actually uses it for a CD or vinyl release, one still has to pay mechanical royalties to the songwriters who can't block such a release, but still need to get paid.

This basically also works for studio outtakes of previously released songs, but not for previously unreleased songs like Curtis Meets Smokey or She's Doing Her Thing because while the recordings are in the public domain, the songwriting copyrights aren't, and songwriters can still use their first publication right to effectively block them from release.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-11 20:35 by retired_dog.

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 11, 2021 18:36

thumbs up

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: March 11, 2021 18:38

This is a real [email protected]@ drum...what i don't hear on "Living in a ghost Town"
[youtu.be]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-11 18:40 by KRiffhard.

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: plusplusjames ()
Date: March 11, 2021 18:43

Quote
Deathgod
Quote
bitusa2012
Lossy.
Lossless.
Flac.
MP3.

Christ, I remember my first bootlegs.

THESE are STUNNING quality compared to that crap that I used to buy! And yet, still love.

I just don’t get it... this is WONDERFUL quality versus what we used to accept.

Burned a CD of ALL these songs today. Played it loud in the car all afternoon. Just LOVELY. Yes, some songs are better than others, some I love, some not so much. LIKE a REAL Stones album, in fact.

It’s JUST MAGNIFICENT compared to my original vinyl and then CD of Gravestones and Rape of the Vaults. And to my original Dirty Work Outtakes CD that I loved the music of, but was just about unlistenable.

Just don’t get this “analysis” of the recordings, the bitrates, the highs and lows, rather than the ENJOYMENT OF THE ACTUAL MUSIC.

We’ve waited, in truth, the best part of 2 decades for a meaningful batch of new Stones music, some of which we know and have, much of which we don’t. Just don’t get it....

My thoughts exactly was going to post something similar
It’s like being given a million dollars and complaining it’s in small bills.
I’m loving it
After the crap year we have all had this is brilliant

Abso -- @#$%& -- lutely. I don't get some of the people here who feel bad about listening to these tracks, or aren't thrilled with the new tunes to groove on. It is a brilliant collection of tracks, whoever is responsible.

If there are more to release, I'll be the first to line up.

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: plusplusjames ()
Date: March 11, 2021 18:44

Duplicate post deleted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-11 18:48 by plusplusjames.

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: March 11, 2021 18:48

Quote
Elmo Lewis
Quote
bitusa2012
Quote
Elmo Lewis
Quote
bitusa2012
Let me get this straight... they RELEASED Winning Ugly, Too Rude and Back to Zero, and left Deep Love in the can? Lilleywhite was not strong enough for them... after a few listens this track is one of the standouts for me.

How would you compare this to Bruce's "Tracks"?

Tracks, it isn’t. Bruce’s release WAS of finished tracks. This is not. Many are, many aren’t. And for me, a Bruce and Stones nutter, most of the songs on Tracks could have easily/should have easily been on Bruce’s albums from the era the songs came from. Few of The Stones songs on this dump could have replaced anything on the albums from The Stones of the eras they came from, apart from, to me Deep Love which should have been on Dirty Work. Nice collection, glad to have it. REALLY, REALLY glad to have it. But it’s NOT Tracks.

Yes, the stuff from The River sessions would have made another fine album. I made a best of Tracks CD and it stands up with the classic stuff.
They actually made a best of Tracks themselves that you may have heard of ("18 Tracks") and it includes two that weren't on the actual box set, one of which (The Fever) is my all-time favorite Boss song now, which I know is big talk, but I really think it is....or at the very least Top 3.

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: March 11, 2021 18:51

So, congas on Curtis Meets Smokey. Brian or Rocky? grinning smiley

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: Massimo68 ()
Date: March 11, 2021 18:59

Quote
bitusa2012
Lossy.
Lossless.
Flac.
MP3.

Christ, I remember my first bootlegs.

THESE are STUNNING quality compared to that crap that I used to buy! And yet, still love.

I just don’t get it... this is WONDERFUL quality versus what we used to accept.

Burned a CD of ALL these songs today. Played it loud in the car all afternoon. Just LOVELY. Yes, some songs are better than others, some I love, some not so much. LIKE a REAL Stones album, in fact.

It’s JUST MAGNIFICENT compared to my original vinyl and then CD of Gravestones and Rape of the Vaults. And to my original Dirty Work Outtakes CD that I loved the music of, but was just about unlistenable.

Just don’t get this “analysis” of the recordings, the bitrates, the highs and lows, rather than the ENJOYMENT OF THE ACTUAL MUSIC.

We’ve waited, in truth, the best part of 2 decades for a meaningful batch of new Stones music, some of which we know and have, much of which we don’t. Just don’t get it....

I'm agree with you.

But as I said on the BST forum, paying 50 euros for a digipack with 3 CDs engraved from mp3 source it's not OK.
I've received the CDs from Italy and I feel f****d this afternoon!

Mp3 source is nice for free download.
Mp3 source engraved on silver CDs are pure crap.

So save your money, download the files but don't give money to the bootleggers and the eBay sellers for CDs with lossy files.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-11 19:01 by Massimo68.

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: caschimann ()
Date: March 11, 2021 19:13

The we transfer of march 3 is gone.
Any chance to download the files?

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: March 11, 2021 19:30

Quote
caschimann

Any chance to download the files?

Take the FLACs - [www.Guitars101.com] - Remaster , [www.Guitars101.com] - CD-Rip.

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: Massimo68 ()
Date: March 11, 2021 19:36

Quote
caschimann
The we transfer of march 3 is gone.
Any chance to download the files?

Take a look at Rocks Off message board winking smiley

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: March 11, 2021 20:29

Quote
Massimo68
Quote
bitusa2012
Lossy.
Lossless.
Flac.
MP3.

Christ, I remember my first bootlegs.

THESE are STUNNING quality compared to that crap that I used to buy! And yet, still love.

I just don’t get it... this is WONDERFUL quality versus what we used to accept.

Burned a CD of ALL these songs today. Played it loud in the car all afternoon. Just LOVELY. Yes, some songs are better than others, some I love, some not so much. LIKE a REAL Stones album, in fact.

It’s JUST MAGNIFICENT compared to my original vinyl and then CD of Gravestones and Rape of the Vaults. And to my original Dirty Work Outtakes CD that I loved the music of, but was just about unlistenable.

Just don’t get this “analysis” of the recordings, the bitrates, the highs and lows, rather than the ENJOYMENT OF THE ACTUAL MUSIC.

We’ve waited, in truth, the best part of 2 decades for a meaningful batch of new Stones music, some of which we know and have, much of which we don’t. Just don’t get it....

I'm agree with you.

But as I said on the BST forum, paying 50 euros for a digipack with 3 CDs engraved from mp3 source it's not OK.
I've received the CDs from Italy and I feel f****d this afternoon!

Mp3 source is nice for free download.
Mp3 source engraved on silver CDs are pure crap.

So save your money, download the files but don't give money to the bootleggers and the eBay sellers for CDs with lossy files.


Just wondering, did you get the original set, with printed cds and postcards and stuff? And had you not known the source for them was probably mp3? Because I am a bit puzzled by your response. I think this is the only source available at this point, or at least the best source. Most everyone who buys this will be buying it for the artifact, not the music, as the music is freely available here as downloads. I guess you expected upgraded source for the cds?

I preordered from the second run of the original set (original as in what was originally posted here as the cd source) but I do not expect major improvements over the flac files derived from these cds. I think that is more realistic expectation than you may have held.

Or did you receive some totally bogus knockoffs of the originals?

Just curious, also curious what you plan to do with your set now? If you want to sell it, i would just put it up on ebay again and sell it off, they are selling like hotcakes so should not be a problem to pass it on.

jb

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: March 11, 2021 21:23

Quote
floodonthepage
Quote
Elmo Lewis
Quote
bitusa2012
Quote
Elmo Lewis
Quote
bitusa2012
Let me get this straight... they RELEASED Winning Ugly, Too Rude and Back to Zero, and left Deep Love in the can? Lilleywhite was not strong enough for them... after a few listens this track is one of the standouts for me.

How would you compare this to Bruce's "Tracks"?

Tracks, it isn’t. Bruce’s release WAS of finished tracks. This is not. Many are, many aren’t. And for me, a Bruce and Stones nutter, most of the songs on Tracks could have easily/should have easily been on Bruce’s albums from the era the songs came from. Few of The Stones songs on this dump could have replaced anything on the albums from The Stones of the eras they came from, apart from, to me Deep Love which should have been on Dirty Work. Nice collection, glad to have it. REALLY, REALLY glad to have it. But it’s NOT Tracks.

Yes, the stuff from The River sessions would have made another fine album. I made a best of Tracks CD and it stands up with the classic stuff.
They actually made a best of Tracks themselves that you may have heard of ("18 Tracks") and it includes two that weren't on the actual box set, one of which (The Fever) is my all-time favorite Boss song now, which I know is big talk, but I really think it is....or at the very least Top 3.

Yes, I had 18 Tracks before I got the whole set. I really like "Where The Bands Are".

Southside Johnny does a nice version of "The Fever" too.

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: March 11, 2021 21:45

Quote
caschimann
The we transfer of march 3 is gone.
Any chance to download the files?

They're here in our very own "POST - Essential Studio Outtakes and Unreleased Tracks CDs" topic as a direct download : [iorr.org] - bottom of page 3 for now

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: agureggae07 ()
Date: March 11, 2021 21:48


Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: agureggae07 ()
Date: March 11, 2021 21:53

How long will it take for THE NEXT outtakes BOX of the Japanese fan club to appear !?

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: March 11, 2021 22:05

Quote
agureggae07

How long will it take for THE NEXT outtakes BOX of the Japanese fan club to appear !?

Japanese fake club .... winking smiley

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: NilsHolgersson ()
Date: March 11, 2021 22:06

What will we have first: the new album, or the new Japanese fan club leaks?

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: March 11, 2021 23:00

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Taylor1
Desperate Man, Part of the Night,Dream On,Built that Way, She’s Doing her Thing, SanctuaryareImO the best songs.If they emerged worked on with further lyrics and musical embellishments they’d be excellent releases. Some songs are very disappointing.For years I have wanted to hear Curtis Meets Smoky, since Nico has listed it along with Old Glory ,Toss the Coin, and several others as coming from the Let it Bleed sessions.But it has none of the majic of the songs from that period.Likewise ,Walk on Wendy from the Sticky Fingers era is just a jam with Mick yelling over it.Most of the rest of theneesongs might have potential but are not worthy of release.Ron’s guitar and bass is great on IORR

Haven't listen that closely to it yet, but you are saying that this is a different bass take than Willie Weeks's take?
Someone on this site earlier said it was Ron initially and he was then erased and then Weeks was overdubbed later.

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: Massimo68 ()
Date: March 11, 2021 23:30

Quote
jbwelda
Just wondering, did you get the original set, with printed cds and postcards and stuff? And had you not known the source for them was probably mp3? Because I am a bit puzzled by your response. I think this is the only source available at this point, or at least the best source. Most everyone who buys this will be buying it for the artifact, not the music, as the music is freely available here as downloads. I guess you expected upgraded source for the cds?

I preordered from the second run of the original set (original as in what was originally posted here as the cd source) but I do not expect major improvements over the flac files derived from these cds. I think that is more realistic expectation than you may have held.

Or did you receive some totally bogus knockoffs of the originals?

Just curious, also curious what you plan to do with your set now? If you want to sell it, i would just put it up on ebay again and sell it off, they are selling like hotcakes so should not be a problem to pass it on.

jb

Yes I received the CDs today (from the eBay italian seller)
Nice job : thick glossy digipack, postcards, printed CDs in black sleeves...

But the source is lossy from mp3. And with a low bitrate, 128 kbps.

This is a rip from my silver CD, CD3 track#07 :



This is the mp3 320 kbps file downloaded on Rocks Off :



Exactly the same stuff.
Encoded in CD format (WAV) or in 320 kbps mp3, we can see that the source is a 128 kbps mp3 (no frequencies over 16 kHz).

So the bootleggers have not the lossless files, only mp3 files in their hands!

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: March 11, 2021 23:33

Quote
NilsHolgersson
What will we have first: the new album, or the new Japanese fan club leaks?

We know the answer to that ;-)

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Re: Fully Finished Studio Outtakes on IORR Hot Stuff!!!!!!
Posted by: deardoctor ()
Date: March 12, 2021 00:07

Quote
Massimo68
Quote
jbwelda
Just wondering, did you get the original set, with printed cds and postcards and stuff? And had you not known the source for them was probably mp3? Because I am a bit puzzled by your response. I think this is the only source available at this point, or at least the best source. Most everyone who buys this will be buying it for the artifact, not the music, as the music is freely available here as downloads. I guess you expected upgraded source for the cds?

I preordered from the second run of the original set (original as in what was originally posted here as the cd source) but I do not expect major improvements over the flac files derived from these cds. I think that is more realistic expectation than you may have held.

Or did you receive some totally bogus knockoffs of the originals?

Just curious, also curious what you plan to do with your set now? If you want to sell it, i would just put it up on ebay again and sell it off, they are selling like hotcakes so should not be a problem to pass it on.

jb

Yes I received the CDs today (from the eBay italian seller)
Nice job : thick glossy digipack, postcards, printed CDs in black sleeves...

But the source is lossy from mp3. And with a low bitrate, 128 kbps.

This is a rip from my silver CD, CD3 track#07 :



This is the mp3 320 kbps file downloaded on Rocks Off :



Exactly the same stuff.
Encoded in CD format (WAV) or in 320 kbps mp3, we can see that the source is a 128 kbps mp3 (no frequencies over 16 kHz).

So the bootleggers have not the lossless files, only mp3 files in their hands!

Thank you gor that important information.

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