Mickboy!

hello from jah bill!

Maybe that means this stuff is indeed slated for release.

jb

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mickboy
YouTube account and channel has been pulled by universal!

We stream anywhere, man.

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mickboy
YouTube account and channel has been pulled by universal!

Yeah mine too! Not even a warning! Sad..

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mickboy
YouTube account and channel has been pulled by universal!

That means :
- they consider this music as stolen property (instead of not giving a toss) = bad signal?
- if they don't want the general pop. to get it it could mean an official release is not totally out of the question... = good signal?

Hope they don't shut down IORR! ><

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NilsHolgersson

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mickboy
YouTube account and channel has been pulled by universal!

Yeah mine too! Not even a warning! Sad..

Well, you uploaded music you don't owe any copyrights..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-07 20:15 by deardoctor.

I pulled down my three videos before I got dinged. Sorry about that, everyone.

Holy moly JB!!
Been a loooong time man. Hope all is good with you and yours!
And I DO think that IF Universal is, not was, but IS working on a box set, maybe for Christmas 2021 release, this might force them to rush release this before the bootleggers saturate the market, in which case we might see this legitimately released within 2 months time!
This is so exciting!
Take care!
Mickboy

YEAH BAYBEE!!!!
mickboy

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deardoctor

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NilsHolgersson

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mickboy
YouTube account and channel has been pulled by universal!

Yeah mine too! Not even a warning! Sad..

Well, you uploaded music you don't owe any copyrights..

Well I guess I just made the Biggest Mistake

Don’t sweat it, things get pulled down probably daily, they know us collectors are out there, if they go after anyone it’ll be in their inner circle people, UNLESS they did this on purpose. Look what happened with the last Dylan drop! Forced them to put it out legitimately, and why not? It’s there, it’s finished product waiting for release, Stones still working on the studio album that will never come out, lol, or just MAYBE Universal leaked this out to put pressure on Mick and Keef to give them the go ahead to release it. Think of it, a 3 cd set, list price $59.99.
A 7 LP vinyl box, list price $179.99. Lotsa $ to be made. And the longer they wait the more the bootleggers will saturate the market and their potential sales, this is not over, not by a long shot!
Mickboy

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NilsHolgersson

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mickboy
YouTube account and channel has been pulled by universal!

Yeah mine too! Not even a warning! Sad..

Was loving your upload of the tracks on YouTube; thankfully we all still have the download.

Hopefully this does mean the possibility of a box set of outtakes may actually have merit.

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deardoctor
Well, you uploaded music you don't owe any copyrights..

The basic question as I see it is: Is this stuff planned for release or not? If so, when? It's been sitting in the vault for decades. Either it's stuff left on the cutting room floor and no different than garbage for them, or it's valuable property that they intend to sell someday. Apparently they decided the latter, which is their right. It's their stuff.

But it is so incredibly frustrating and contradictory. I hate living in this middle ground. It does not make any sense. This material is so valuable to them that they are shutting down YouTube channels, yet it's NOT so valuable to them as to be worthy of an official release at any time in the last twenty years? What exactly are they waiting for? This wasn't deemed worthy enough for release at the time it was created, nor for the 40th or 50th anniversaries, nor for bonus additions to the deluxe album re-issues. So what ARE they waiting for? The 100th anniversary? 200th?

It's clear now that over the past few decades the Stones could have easily cobbled together two or even three more really good albums out of the material here. But they didn't.

Either they couldn't finish the songs, or they didn't like the final recordings of the songs they were able to finish. But they also don't want to release the unfinished versions. And they don't want anyone to bootleg the unfinished versions, or the finished versions that had already been rejected multiple times, because... they're valuable to them and they might want to release them someday?

Again, it's their stuff and it's their right to decide what to do with it as they please. I get that. But, if these tracks are valuable, they should release them officially. What's the holdup? Fans of classic rock acts aren't exactly part of a growth industry. The contemporary fans to whom the Stones mean the most are growing old and wouldn't mind hearing a little more Rolling Stones music before they die. But apparently the Stones and UMG think that there are going to be a lot more Stones fans in 2022? Or in 2032? Or are they saving all this stuff for the really big anniversary in 2062? Why not save it all for the 2162 anniversary then? There's sure to be tons of Stones fans ready to buy all these unfinished, thrice rejected tracks.

In my opinion they should either officially release it if they think it has worth, or let people listen to it if they've deemed it to be cutting-room floor garbage. All of this stuff - make no mistake - has been rejected multiple times for official release. So who could blame any fan for thinking that the Stones and UMG consider these tracks trash? If it's treasure for them, let us buy it. Again, my question for the record company and the band: what is the hold up?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-07 21:12 by jahisnotdead.

Great post, Jah

Is there some way to easily find the discussion on each track of this fabulous release? Searching through this thread doesn't seem to be that smooth.

Are we allowed to put up Track Talks for each song or will that clog the whole thing up?

I think people are really overating the quality of the stuff here.There isn’t one really terrific completed song here.Maybe if they were worked on more.But there is no way they would put this out as a new album without further work.But there is within some of it the genesis of some good songs,so maybe they want to hold onto it for that reason.But none of these songs as they are would have beengood enough for Voodoo Lounge or Bridges to Babylon

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jahisnotdead

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deardoctor
Well, you uploaded music you don't owe any copyrights..

The basic question as I see it is: Is this stuff planned for release or not? If so, when? It's been sitting in the vault for decades. Either it's stuff left on the cutting room floor and no different than garbage for them, or it's valuable property that they intend to sell someday. Apparently they decided the latter, which is their right. It's their stuff.

But it is so incredibly frustrating and contradictory. I hate living in this middle ground. It does not make any sense. This material is so valuable to them that they are shutting down YouTube channels, yet it's NOT so valuable to them as to be worthy of an official release at any time in the last twenty years? What exactly are they waiting for? This wasn't deemed worthy enough for release at the time it was created, nor for the 40th or 50th anniversaries, nor for bonus additions to the deluxe album re-issues. So what ARE they waiting for? The 100th anniversary? 200th?

It's clear now that over the past few decades the Stones could have easily cobbled together two or even three more really good albums out of the material here. But they didn't.

Either they couldn't finish the songs, or they didn't like the final recordings of the songs they were able to finish. But they also don't want to release the unfinished versions. And they don't want anyone to bootleg the unfinished versions, or the finished versions that had already been rejected multiple times, because... they're valuable to them and they might want to release them someday?

Again, it's their stuff and it's their right to decide what to do with it as they please. I get that. But, if these tracks are valuable, they should release them officially. What's the holdup? Fans of classic rock acts aren't exactly part of a growth industry. The contemporary fans to whom the Stones mean the most are growing old and wouldn't mind hearing a little more Rolling Stones music before they die. But apparently the Stones and UMG think that there are going to be a lot more Stones fans in 2022? Or in 2032? Or are they saving all this stuff for the really big anniversary in 2062? Why not save it all for the 2162 anniversary then? There's sure to be tons of Stones fans ready to buy all these unfinished, thrice rejected tracks.

In my opinion they should either officially release it if they think it has worth, or let people listen to it if they've deemed it to be cutting-room floor garbage. All of this stuff - make no mistake - has been rejected multiple times for official release. So who could blame any fan for thinking that the Stones and UMG consider these tracks trash? If it's treasure for them, let us buy it. Again, my question for the record company and the band: what is the hold up?

Yup, I totally agree. Also the boys are pushing 80 why wouldn't they want control over their baby's as Keith referees to their songs, as opposed to their family and record companies/lawyers deciding the faith of all the gems leftover in the "Vault" I have a feeling their family's will be taken care of in the end. My 2 cents to the band, take control of your songs and release as much as you can in the next 10 to 15 years. It would serve them and their fans well.

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deardoctor

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Hairball

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deardoctor

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Hairball

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deardoctor
Scarlet:
The guitar-solo is missing!
I thought that would have been Jimmy Page.
So what was his contribution to this song?
Anyone knows?

According to Jimmy, it was indeed him playing the solo - not sure why it's missing in this version, though have to admit I've paid very little attention to this one.
From official Rolling Stones youtube channel > The story of Scarlet featuring Jimmy Page

Thank you hairball. I know this clip. But I see only two possibilities: 1. No Jimmy Page in Scarlet. Solo is modern overdub, maybe Ronnie, definitly not Keith.
2. Page did the overdub recently, then the legend story which they told in that clip is a fake. Or am I wrong?

Here's this from a series of tweets Jimmy posted on July 20. 2020, saying he added the solo the second night of the sessions: Jimmy Page on Twitter

- On this day in 2020, Scarlet by @RollingStones, featuring me, is released.
I was invited to Ronnie Woods’ house in Richmond to do a session in October 1974. It was said that Keith Richards and Ian Stuart (Stu) would be there.
It sounded a good opportunity to catch up with old friends.?There was Keith Richards on electric guitar, myself on electric guitar,
Rick Grech on bass and a drummer and engineer I had not met before. Keith kicked it off and I began to mould a riff around his guitar part to augment the arrangement.
It began to lock-in pretty soon with the musicians and we all got a successful take that evening. I’d had a good time working with Keith. ?
It was said they were continuing the following night at Island Number 2 Studios in London. I said I’d go and play some guitar soloing on it.
I arrived early on that evening and got to do it straight away within a few takes. It sounded good to me and I left them to it.?

-----------------------------------------

Could be this newly unearthed version is from the first night before the solo was recorded, but even some of the rhythm guitar and the time/chord changes sound like Jimmy.
Definitely not his best by a longshot, but rather some throwaway jam session ideas as is the entire song that was officially released last July 20th.

Yes, Dandelion Powderman has the same opinion in the next post. This is a possibility, if the voice is "young Jagger". This point we discussed last summer. I think the main vox is mostly an overdub post 1989. Why should Jagger work with the tape from the first night or mute the solo in the mix? Makes no sense for me. Maybe it remains a secret...

Yeah, will probably remain a secret, but Mick did say in a video clip at time of release that the only new vocals he added were towards the end of the song and/or just during the chorus, while the majority/main vocals were done back in the day during the original session (s). He seemed adamant and sure of it as a matter of fact, and as not to question him, but could be has a hazy memory and/or he's lying!. But my memory is a bit hazy on that also ha, and that could have been him talking about the embellishments to Criss Cross. Pretty sure though Mick said he was there during the original recording, but admitted Page remembered more details, and differently.

But to keep an open mind, I suppose you could be right about it being a recent Page solo, but they'd all have to be in cahoots in an attempt to pull the wool over everyones eyes. I do remember Keith being clueless about Mick Taylor adding new bits to Plundered, so I suppose it could have been sneaky Jagger and Page in cahoots alone. It's really not the best solo, and doesn't sound much like anything else Page was playing around that time c. '74 (imo), so maybe as you said - it's a modern Ronnie on lead trying to mimic a vintage sounding Page? lol. The truth behind the mystery and conspiracy will probably never be fully unveiled, but maybe others have some input....

Meanwhile, gonna take my mind off all this speculation, and listen to some good old Dog Shit....

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Have nearly finished listened to these outtakes now, and here are my couple of cents for now:

I really prefer properly ordered stuff with songs from the same sessions in one release, and it sure is a bit schizophrenic jumping between 1967 whimsy, 1974 funk rock and 1997 "Vegas Stones" within the same 15 minutes, but I gotta admit it's a hell of a lot of fun listening to this hodge podge.

Still, no matter how good the sound quality, they're just outtakes, and most of them do sound unfinished and not really up there with their best stuff. I guess I could put together a few great playlists with these. Or, better yet, make a few playlists with tracks from this release together with other boots, like the '71 Trident Mixes or '78 Paris Sessions or whatever.

Dating the stuff isn't all that easy ... I realize I have a hard time especially with the 1977–1983 songs. The finished albums usually sounded quite different (like Emotional Rescue compared to Undercover), but as raw outtakes a 1981 tape has a lot in common with one from '77.

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Taylor1
I think people are really overating the quality of the stuff here.
But none of these songs as they are would have been good enough for Voodoo Lounge or Bridges to Babylon

I think that's the very definition of a bootleg : listening to extra stuff, not necessarily great mind-blowing stuff. And if the bootlegged stuff would be better than the official one that would mean one (terrible) thing : that the band has lost their artistic compass and they can't choose B-material from A-material.
Of course the official versions of the B2B songs are better than what's one the FFSO set.

Imo what one should look for in outtakes boots is a fuller, bigger, deeper picture of an album, not material that would be better than what was officially released.

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dcba

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Taylor1
I think people are really overating the quality of the stuff here.
But none of these songs as they are would have been good enough for Voodoo Lounge or Bridges to Babylon

I think that's the very definition of a bootleg : listening to extra stuff, not necessarily great mind-blowing stuff. And if the bootlegged stuff would be better than the official one that would mean one (terrible) thing : that the band has lost their artistic compass and they can't choose B-material from A-material.
Of course the official versions of the B2B songs are better than what's one the FFSO set.

Imo what one should look for in outtakes boots is a fuller, bigger, deeper picture of an album, not material that would be better than what was officially released.

I actually think there is enough (nearly) finished, quality stuff to make an album (Tattoo Two, anyone?).

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Hairball

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deardoctor

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Hairball

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deardoctor

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Hairball

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deardoctor
Scarlet:
The guitar-solo is missing!
I thought that would have been Jimmy Page.
So what was his contribution to this song?
Anyone knows?

According to Jimmy, it was indeed him playing the solo - not sure why it's missing in this version, though have to admit I've paid very little attention to this one.
From official Rolling Stones youtube channel > The story of Scarlet featuring Jimmy Page

Thank you hairball. I know this clip. But I see only two possibilities: 1. No Jimmy Page in Scarlet. Solo is modern overdub, maybe Ronnie, definitly not Keith.
2. Page did the overdub recently, then the legend story which they told in that clip is a fake. Or am I wrong?

Here's this from a series of tweets Jimmy posted on July 20. 2020, saying he added the solo the second night of the sessions: Jimmy Page on Twitter

- On this day in 2020, Scarlet by @RollingStones, featuring me, is released.
I was invited to Ronnie Woods’ house in Richmond to do a session in October 1974. It was said that Keith Richards and Ian Stuart (Stu) would be there.
It sounded a good opportunity to catch up with old friends.?There was Keith Richards on electric guitar, myself on electric guitar,
Rick Grech on bass and a drummer and engineer I had not met before. Keith kicked it off and I began to mould a riff around his guitar part to augment the arrangement.
It began to lock-in pretty soon with the musicians and we all got a successful take that evening. I’d had a good time working with Keith. ?
It was said they were continuing the following night at Island Number 2 Studios in London. I said I’d go and play some guitar soloing on it.
I arrived early on that evening and got to do it straight away within a few takes. It sounded good to me and I left them to it.?

-----------------------------------------

Could be this newly unearthed version is from the first night before the solo was recorded, but even some of the rhythm guitar and the time/chord changes sound like Jimmy.
Definitely not his best by a longshot, but rather some throwaway jam session ideas as is the entire song that was officially released last July 20th.

Yes, Dandelion Powderman has the same opinion in the next post. This is a possibility, if the voice is "young Jagger". This point we discussed last summer. I think the main vox is mostly an overdub post 1989. Why should Jagger work with the tape from the first night or mute the solo in the mix? Makes no sense for me. Maybe it remains a secret...

Yeah, will probably remain a secret, but Mick did say in a video clip at time of release that the only new vocals he added were towards the end of the song and/or just during the chorus, while the majority/main vocals were done back in the day during the original session (s). He seemed adamant and sure of it as a matter of fact, and as not to question him, but could be has a hazy memory and/or he's lying!. But my memory is a bit hazy on that also ha, and that could have been him talking about the embellishments to Criss Cross. Pretty sure though Mick said he was there during the original recording, but admitted Page remembered more details, and differently.

But to keep an open mind, I suppose you could be right about it being a recent Page solo, but they'd all have to be in cahoots in an attempt to pull the wool over everyones eyes. I do remember Keith being clueless about Mick Taylor adding new bits to Plundered, so I suppose it could have been sneaky Jagger and Page in cahoots alone. It's really not the best solo, and doesn't sound much like anything else Page was playing around that time c. '74 (imo), so maybe as you said - it's a modern Ronnie on lead trying to mimic a vintage sounding Page? lol. The truth behind the mystery and conspiracy will probably never be fully unveiled, but maybe others have some input....

Meanwhile, gonna take my mind off all this speculation, and listen to some good old Dog Shit....

Yeah, and "Dog shit" is quite GREAT SHIT! I don't agree with some other posts that the outtakes are mostly weak. There is so much great stuff to listen too, at least miles better than everything on ABB

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jahisnotdead

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Hairball
Cool video

Thanks very much.

*EDIT* I took down the video, because people were starting to get their channels removed or blocked for using music from this set of boots.

Having read through rest of thread w/multiple channels being deleted - wise move.
Sucks that youtube can just yank someone's entire channel without giving a fair warning?
Some of those channels are sometimes years in the making.................

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Taylor1
I think people are really overating the quality of the stuff here.There isn’t one really terrific completed song here.Maybe if they were worked on more.But there is no way they would put this out as a new album without further work.But there is within some of it the genesis of some good songs,so maybe they want to hold onto it for that reason.But none of these songs as they are would have beengood enough for Voodoo Lounge or Bridges to Babylon

I agree with this as well. I could easily compile a single cd/playlist of this material and be fine with it. It is nice to have as a free download but I wouldn't pay bootleg prices for it. I will say the sound is quite good on the material but there are really only about 15 or so different songs which have not been booted before which are not different mixes and/or versions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-07 22:11 by boogaloojef.

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jahisnotdead

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deardoctor
Well, you uploaded music you don't owe any copyrights..

The basic question as I see it is: Is this stuff planned for release or not? If so, when? It's been sitting in the vault for decades. Either it's stuff left on the cutting room floor and no different than garbage for them, or it's valuable property that they intend to sell someday. Apparently they decided the latter, which is their right. It's their stuff.

But it is so incredibly frustrating and contradictory. I hate living in this middle ground. It does not make any sense. This material is so valuable to them that they are shutting down YouTube channels, yet it's NOT so valuable to them as to be worthy of an official release at any time in the last twenty years? What exactly are they waiting for? This wasn't deemed worthy enough for release at the time it was created, nor for the 40th or 50th anniversaries, nor for bonus additions to the deluxe album re-issues. So what ARE they waiting for? The 100th anniversary? 200th?

It's clear now that over the past few decades the Stones could have easily cobbled together two or even three more really good albums out of the material here. But they didn't.

Either they couldn't finish the songs, or they didn't like the final recordings of the songs they were able to finish. But they also don't want to release the unfinished versions. And they don't want anyone to bootleg the unfinished versions, or the finished versions that had already been rejected multiple times, because... they're valuable to them and they might want to release them someday?

Again, it's their stuff and it's their right to decide what to do with it as they please. I get that. But, if these tracks are valuable, they should release them officially. What's the holdup? Fans of classic rock acts aren't exactly part of a growth industry. The contemporary fans to whom the Stones mean the most are growing old and wouldn't mind hearing a little more Rolling Stones music before they die. But apparently the Stones and UMG think that there are going to be a lot more Stones fans in 2022? Or in 2032? Or are they saving all this stuff for the really big anniversary in 2062? Why not save it all for the 2162 anniversary then? There's sure to be tons of Stones fans ready to buy all these unfinished, thrice rejected tracks.

In my opinion they should either officially release it if they think it has worth, or let people listen to it if they've deemed it to be cutting-room floor garbage. All of this stuff - make no mistake - has been rejected multiple times for official release. So who could blame any fan for thinking that the Stones and UMG consider these tracks trash? If it's treasure for them, let us buy it. Again, my question for the record company and the band: what is the hold up?

Yes, absolutely agree with you. They could have make tons of cash, if they would have released that stuff back maybe in the 90s. Instead they cave us "RARITIES" which was garbage.
But it stays that way wether we like it or not: it is stolen music in releasable quality. Not like all the old alternate takes and bootlegs, only interesting for fans. Maybe they planned a big release for their 60-anniversary and some thief stole their big surprise -who knows.
I´m quite very happy about the stuff surfaced but we all know - if you upload stolen material on youtube there could be some consequences, we got a big discussion in europe about that for years. And things will get worse...

If they think selling chocolate is a good business oportunity I'd like to know what do they think about this outtakes leak (in case they considered it to be oficially released)

Maybe they save stuff so their great-grandkids got some 'new' Stones tracks to release in 2062

Yeah but who's going to be around in 2062 and interested ? I'd wager we're only interested ourselves because we know the "history" of the band, know the albums by heart, went out and bought them, have heard about the "inner circle of collectors", etc...I'm the same with Macca and maybe Pink Floyd stuff, the rest of the bands I "like" (and there are a lot) as opposed to "love" ? Not so much. All of this is a bit (lot) of an acquired taste TBH ;-) Even here, you have people asking "what's new on these CDs" or "Putty in your Hands" must be Mick with the Red Devils, so it won't mean as much to them as to the people who heard the "outside the studio" recordings of 1985 and what about to those who were actually standing there 35 years ago ? Priceless !

At the end of the day UMG and the Stones have painted themselves in a corner by failing to release anything new for 15+ years now, completely overthinking it (and the more they wait, the higher their impossible standard becomes) and this unexpected "gift" (as well as the 2002 leaks) makes up for it nicely ;-)

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Its "Anthology" style stuff, its not meant to be perfect or even otherwise releasable, its warts and all. And when it is judged by that standard, it is pretty darn good. It actually sounds like it has been finished and readied for release, not like the outtakes on so many boots. Even the same songs sound different to me but maybe that is a memory problem. I think we will be seeing this stuff officially now or no one would have bothered with the youtube stuff. And I am starting to lean heavily to it being an official "leak", lowish res to judge interest and to pique it at the same time.

I always thought the point of contention was that Jagger DIDN'T want to release stuff like that, so that is one hurdle to the theory they are legit and foretell an actual release in higher quality.

jb

Wow! This is realy great!
Thank You for posting and to those, who made it!

They really needed (still do) a producer. All those good ideas and many of them not fully developed.