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Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Testify ()
Date: November 15, 2020 23:20

Quote
floodonthepage
Quote
Hairball
Maybe Rip was paid by Mick to sort of be a facsimile of Keith...a Keith clone...a Keith-alike...a Keith wannabe...to give the appearance of Keith...sort of a shadow and an echo of the real thing...

Maybe. That seems quite plausible to me.
I totally disagree, for at least a couple of reasons, Mick historically never wanted a copy, never wanted it in the Stones Taylor is very different from Brian and Wood is very different from Taylor, Darryl Jones is very different from Bill.
Mick Jagger isn't stupid and he knew very well he couldn't do Stones 2, and if you listen to them they sound completely different from the Stones. So nobody there wants to be Keith, but just play Rolling Stones songs each with their own style, which you may like more or less.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: November 16, 2020 06:43

Quote
Testify
Quote
floodonthepage
Quote
Hairball
Maybe Rip was paid by Mick to sort of be a facsimile of Keith...a Keith clone...a Keith-alike...a Keith wannabe...to give the appearance of Keith...sort of a shadow and an echo of the real thing...

Maybe. That seems quite plausible to me.
I totally disagree, for at least a couple of reasons, Mick historically never wanted a copy, never wanted it in the Stones Taylor is very different from Brian and Wood is very different from Taylor, Darryl Jones is very different from Bill.
Mick Jagger isn't stupid and he knew very well he couldn't do Stones 2, and if you listen to them they sound completely different from the Stones. So nobody there wants to be Keith, but just play Rolling Stones songs each with their own style, which you may like more or less.

Fair. It's not so much his sound that strikes me as Keith-ish but his poses, postures, and overall style/look. Still, I agree...he doesn't sound like Keith.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: November 16, 2020 06:46

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
floodonthepage
Quote
Stoneage
Quote
floodonthepage
Quote
Stoneage
Why blame Jimmy Rip? He's doing what he's paid for. Professionally so. He can't turn himself into Keith Richards. The blame belongs somewhere else...

Ummmmm...what? You just made my point. You're right, he can't turn himself into Keith Richards. Exactly. If you're a wannabe the blames belongs with the person wanting to be.

That's not a point. That is an assumption from your side. You assume he wants to be Keith Richards. You claim he's a Keith Richards wannabe. I don't think anything of that is true.

Seriously? It is a point. You don't think it's true. That's an opinion. My post is also an opinion. The point being that he can't turn himself into Keith. That's a point we seem to agree on. The rest of this is unraveling a bit. I'm not a Rip fan, I'll leave it at that. Gold Rings On Ya.

This "Gold Rings On Ya" fanfare makes me think that this may actually be a case of one Keith wannabe accusing another person of (allegedly) being a Keith wannabe.

Wow. If I quote someone I am trying to be them? Especially quoting a Stones member on a Stones board? My hunch is that you're baiting and looking for stuff. But Gold Rings On Ya anyway!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-16 18:59 by floodonthepage.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: harlem shuffle ()
Date: November 16, 2020 14:49

Very funny reading Hairballs comics

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 16, 2020 17:42

Quote
dcba
Quote
GasLightStreet
Keith's point of view is accurate about Mick's tour:

Keith Richards (August 1988): Mick in Japan
I thought it was very sad that a high percentage of his show was Rolling Stones songs. If you're going to do something on your own, do stuff off the two albums you did. Don't pretend you're a solo artist and have two chicks prancing around doing Tumbling Dice, do you know what I mean? That severely pisses me off.

[timeisonourside.com]

Yet he quickly turned off his anger as the 1989 "triumphant return" was a straight copy of Mick 88 solo venture. In less than a year Keith went from "severely pissed" to "hey Mick inflatable dolls? Great idea!!" grinning smiley

He certainly did. Enter "Glad to be here..." And he turned into a street pop lemonade stand artist with the ridiculous spray painting of his pants and shoes.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 16, 2020 17:45

Quote
Testify
It is logical that Keith commented that way, he was pissed ... but he too did the same in his concerts. Sure he did play few Stones songs, but only because it was another kind of show.
Keith played in small spaces, Mick put on a great show and people would be pissed if he didn't play the Stones classics.
Comparing things makes no sense, what Keith said was dictated by his pissed mood.

It does make sense. You're just choosing to not see it that way. Here, I'll spell it out for you:

S-O-L-O A-R-T-I-S-T.

Not THE ROLLING STONES, which Mick's tour was, which was interrupted by some mostly awful solo songs. The ratio of solo songs to Stones songs were opposite of their tours.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: jackflash27 ()
Date: November 16, 2020 18:22

I like the "Lisa Fisher" solo on Gimme Shelter I have to admit.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Date: November 16, 2020 18:36

No use in comparing this band with the Stones. They are different an I like them. Jagger must have had good reasons to go solo for a while.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Date: November 16, 2020 22:01

The way some stones songs are played in this video may be based in two reasons: they should be played differently for the sake of just sound different OR they should be played like that because it was the way Mick thought they HAD TO SOUND in the stones,

This doubt can not be solved....

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Testify ()
Date: November 17, 2020 15:06

I think Jagger and Keith's solo works were needed at that time. I don't see anything wrong with it, even though I wasn't happy with it then. Yet I'm glad Mick and Keith were able to do what they wanted too, without the Stones "cage".
Maybe it's because I love a lot of solo work by both Mick and Keith, but also Ronnie's, so it would have been a waste if they weren't there.
After that each of us has our own tastes, but there is no need to call everything we don't like garbage, I hate this approach, I don't like it so it's garbage, it just denotes ignorance.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: November 17, 2020 15:16

Quote
GasLightStreet
[Keith] turned into a street pop lemonade stand artist with the ridiculous spray painting of his pants and shoes.

But you gotta admit he played wonderfully on this tour. His soloing on "sympathy" is far far better than what he delivered in 1969/70.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: November 17, 2020 19:46

The best of that whole solo 88 disaster is the intro of Mick
playing harp in the desert. The rest I simply can´t stand.


Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Mariuana ()
Date: November 17, 2020 23:04

I just love how people on here excuse Keith for pretty much the same they don't excuse Mick. Keith criticized Mick for doing the Stones stuff in his solo tour yet he did the same in his own solo tour. He probably still remembered the New Barbarians fiasco in late 70s when they said that Mick was going to join and sing some Stones stuff and the promise was never actual.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: November 17, 2020 23:05

Yep thats it ....
No matter what it is Mick gets the blame ....



ROCKMAN

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: November 17, 2020 23:55

Quote
Mariuana
Keith criticized Mick for doing the Stones stuff in his
solo tour yet he did the same in his own solo tour.

So true...not:

Setlist Mick Tokyo, March 22nd, 1988

Honky Tonk Women
Throwaway
Bitch
Let's Spend the Night Together
Beast of Burden
Tumbling Dice
Miss You
Ruby Tuesday

Just Another Night
War Baby
Harlem Shuffle
Say You Will
Party Doll
You Can't Always Get What You Want
Radio Control
Gimme Shelter
Start Me Up
Brown Sugar
It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (but I Like It)
Jumpin' Jack Flash
Sympathy for the Devil
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction


Setlist Keith Köln 1992, a tv broadcast btw:

Take It So Hard
Eileen
Wicked As It Seems
Gimme Shelter
Too Rude
Yap Yap
How I Wish
999
Big Enough
Demon
Time Is on My Side
Hate It When You Leave
I Could Have Stood You Up
Before They Make Me Run
Bodytalks
Will But You Won't
Happy
Whip It Up


Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: rollmops ()
Date: November 18, 2020 00:43

Quote
Rockman
Yep thats it ....
No matter what it is Mick gets the blame ....
Like BB says : that's the cost to be the boss...
Rockandroll,
Mops

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: November 18, 2020 01:25

Yeah ....
It's a world of BLAME now days ....

Blame Somebody

You may call me Terry, you may call me Timmy
You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy
You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray
You may call me anything but no matter what you say

But you're gonna have to blame somebody, yes you are
You're gonna have to blame somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to blame somebody ......... …



ROCKMAN

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: November 18, 2020 01:42

Quote
TooTough
Quote
Mariuana
Keith criticized Mick for doing the Stones stuff in his
solo tour yet he did the same in his own solo tour.

So true...not:

Setlist Mick Tokyo, March 22nd, 1988

Honky Tonk Women
Throwaway
Bitch
Let's Spend the Night Together
Beast of Burden
Tumbling Dice
Miss You
Ruby Tuesday

Just Another Night
War Baby
Harlem Shuffle
Say You Will
Party Doll
You Can't Always Get What You Want
Radio Control
Gimme Shelter
Start Me Up
Brown Sugar
It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (but I Like It)
Jumpin' Jack Flash
Sympathy for the Devil
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction


Setlist Keith Köln 1992, a tv broadcast btw:

Take It So Hard
Eileen
Wicked As It Seems
Gimme Shelter
Too Rude
Yap Yap
How I Wish
999
Big Enough
Demon
Time Is on My Side
Hate It When You Leave
I Could Have Stood You Up
Before They Make Me Run
Bodytalks
Will But You Won't
Happy
Whip It Up

Clearly Keith has more integrity as a solo artist, and his complaint about Mick milking the Stones catalogue is completely justified.
If I was a fan of Mick's solo material back then and paid to see Mick solo, I might have been upset he didn't play more solo tunes instead of over-clogging his set with so many Stones tunes played by his covers band.
Keith on the other hand only threw in a few Stones tunes - seems the proper thing to do, and a nice gesture to give the crowd a small taste of the Stones. There's really no comparison here, and Keith was rightly pissed off.

________________
Keep on rolling.......

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: November 18, 2020 02:45

Obviously,Micks solo tours were the template for Steel Wheels in terms of the set list and the way the songs were played.Maybe he wanted to see how it would go before utilizing the Stones in that way

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: NilsHolgersson ()
Date: November 18, 2020 03:10

Quote
Hairball
If I was a fan of Mick's solo material back then and paid to see Mick solo, I might have been upset he didn't play more solo tunes instead of over-clogging his set with so many Stones tunes played by his covers band.

I never heard of a Mick solo fan actually.. someone who's a fan of Mick's solo work and doesn't like the Stones and doesn't want to hear Stones tunes at a Mick Jagger concert.. it's a weird thing

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: November 18, 2020 03:19

Quote
NilsHolgersson
Quote
Hairball
If I was a fan of Mick's solo material back then and paid to see Mick solo, I might have been upset he didn't play more solo tunes instead of over-clogging his set with so many Stones tunes played by his covers band.

I never heard of a Mick solo fan actually.. someone who's a fan of Mick's solo work and doesn't like the Stones and doesn't want to hear Stones tunes at a Mick Jagger concert.. it's a weird thing

Yes, but the point was it's the large number of Stones tunes being played that was weird which I thought I made clear - see my reference to Keith's solo shows which you edited out from my post - a few tunes are great!
When the majority of Mick's setlist is Stones songs being played by an inferior cover band (compared to the Stones) when the actual Stones were still an existing band, somethings not right.
No other artist would think of such a thing. Imagine Bono going solo (for example), and a majority of his shows setlists were U2 songs, while the rest of U2 were waiting in the wings. Now that would be weird!

________________
Keep on rolling.......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-18 03:22 by Hairball.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: November 18, 2020 03:21

Another first for Mick i guess ....



ROCKMAN

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 18, 2020 03:46

Quote
Hairball
Quote
TooTough
Quote
Mariuana
Keith criticized Mick for doing the Stones stuff in his
solo tour yet he did the same in his own solo tour.

So true...not:

Setlist Mick Tokyo, March 22nd, 1988

Honky Tonk Women
Throwaway
Bitch
Let's Spend the Night Together
Beast of Burden
Tumbling Dice
Miss You
Ruby Tuesday

Just Another Night
War Baby
Harlem Shuffle
Say You Will
Party Doll
You Can't Always Get What You Want
Radio Control
Gimme Shelter
Start Me Up
Brown Sugar
It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (but I Like It)
Jumpin' Jack Flash
Sympathy for the Devil
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction


Setlist Keith Köln 1992, a tv broadcast btw:

Take It So Hard
Eileen
Wicked As It Seems
Gimme Shelter
Too Rude
Yap Yap
How I Wish
999
Big Enough
Demon
Time Is on My Side
Hate It When You Leave
I Could Have Stood You Up
Before They Make Me Run
Bodytalks
Will But You Won't
Happy
Whip It Up

Clearly Keith has more integrity as a solo artist, and his complaint about Mick milking the Stones catalogue is completely justified.
If I was a fan of Mick's solo material back then and paid to see Mick solo, I might have been upset he didn't play more solo tunes instead of over-clogging his set with so many Stones tunes played by his covers band.
Keith on the other hand only threw in a few Stones tunes - seems the proper thing to do, and a nice gesture to give the crowd a small taste of the Stones. There's really no comparison here, and Keith was rightly pissed off.

Fixed it. Still way less than Mick.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: November 18, 2020 04:21

Ha - I did notice Before They Make Me Run on that list, but overlooked Too Rude - not one of the Stones' (or Keith's) better cover tunes imo.

________________
Keep on rolling.......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-18 04:23 by Hairball.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 18, 2020 04:37

Quote
Hairball
Ha - I did notice Before They Make Me Run on that list, but overlooked Too Rude - not one of the Stones' (or Keith's) better cover tunes imo.

His live version did it justice.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: November 18, 2020 08:03

FYI: Setlist Mick Osaka, March 15, 16 and 18, 1988

Honky Tonk Women
Throwaway
Bitch
Let's Spend the Night Together

Lonely at The Top
Beast of Burden
Tumbling Dice
Miss You
Ruby Tuesday

Just Another Night
War Baby
Harlem Shuffle
Lucky in Love
Say You Will
Party Doll
You Can't Always Get What You Want
Radio Control
Shoot Off Your Mouth
Gimme Shelter
Start Me Up
Brown Sugar
It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (but I Like It)
Jumpin' Jack Flash
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction
Sympathy for the Devil

[*The titles in italics were dropped from the setlist on subsequent shows in Tokyo and Nagoya, and song order of the encore numbers, Satisfaction and SFTD, was changed. In Nagoya, Say You Will was also dropped and Foxy Lady was added in this position. And finally, on the postponed fourth Osaka show and tour’s final night, March 28, Shoot Off Your Mouth was resumed.]

I saw all of Mick’s four solo shows in Osaka (the fourth show, March 19 was postponed to 28 due to his illness). Yeah, I felt the Stones numbers tad too many for a ‘solo’ show, but it was not so much bewilderment as a pleasant surprise. Nobody bothered about it. At that point, The Rolling Stones had never played in Japan, and it didn’t matter at all to us that those classic tunes were performed by the ‘fake Stones’. And there was Mick — in all honesty, he gave us everything, and then some, on these shows. His charisma and professionalism shone through above all else.
Truth be told, when the Stones finally set foot in Japan two years after and played at the Tokyo Dome, quite a few people confessed that they were more excited by Mick’s solo show than the real Stones! Ersatz wine sometimes tastes better than the genuine article...

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Date: November 18, 2020 11:42

<At that point, The Rolling Stones had never played in Japan>

That might have been the reason for those setlists in Japan.

Or did Mick play just as many Stones-tunes in Australia and New Zealand as well?

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: November 18, 2020 12:59

Quote
Hairball

Clearly Keith has more integrity as a solo artist, and his complaint about Mick milking the Stones catalogue is completely justified.

Yes but Jagger made 45000 people juping on their feet in Tokyo in 1988 while Keith "filled" 5000 persons venues (at best). And frankly the 92/93 gigs were kinda boring. The one time when people were genuinely moved by the music played was when the Winos played "Gimme shelter".

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: NilsHolgersson ()
Date: November 18, 2020 12:59

I don't think Mick saw that clear a difference between him with the Stones and his solo work. He was just like 'i wrote those songs and played them with my band the Rolling Stones, now I play them with my new band". He had the Stones called "Mick Jagger & the Rolling Stones" in the early 80s and he called Charlie "his drummer". He said that with the Stones he could only do so much, and now it's time to expand the horizon. So he still put some well known Stones songs in his solo concerts, like Michael Jackson still sang some Jackson Five songs during his concerts and Paul McCartney some Beatles songs. It's what people know them for, they still wanna hear the old singalong stuff when an artist goes solo.

Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: November 18, 2020 13:16

Mick didn’t write Ruby Tuesday,Brian and Keith did.Mick didn’t write IORR, Wood did. And Beast of Burden,Gimme Shelter, we’re mostly Keith.Jumping Jack Flash was co written by Wyman.The only songs on that list that he wrote by himself were Brown Sugar and You Can Always Get What You Want

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