It is not unusual that people with allergies may have issues with vaccines. That is why you are asked to hang around for 20 minutes after you get the vaccine, so that you are still under care of those who understand if it is an allergic reaction. The Pfizer/BioNTech phase 3 clinical trial did actually say that there was 0.12% more allergic reactions with the vaccine vs the placebo. Out of approx 20,000 people getting the vaccine in the phase 3 trial, 0.12% is approx 25 people with such a reaction. The risk and the issues of covid-19 is far more dangerous than an allergic reaction, also, this was related to 0.1% - one out of one thousand.

The two persons in UK who got an allergic reaction on Monday, did both carry an adrenaline pen, i.e. they should not take the vaccine.

Allergy warning for Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine after UK health workers with allergy history suffer reaction (CNN Dec 10)

"In the pivotal phase 3 clinical trial, this vaccine was generally well tolerated with no serious safety concerns reported by the independent Data Monitoring Committee. The trial has enrolled over 44,000 participants to date, over 42,000 of whom have received a second vaccination."

Documents released on Tuesday by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) said the Pfizer/BioNTech trial data indicated that there were potentially slightly more adverse responses thought to be allergic reactions among the vaccine group compared with the placebo group, at 0.63% compared with 0.51%.

When will you be eligible for the Covid vaccine?
What about people with allergies? (BBC 10 December)

Anyone who has previously had a significant allergic reaction to a medicine, food or another vaccine should not have the Pfizer-BioNTech jab.

This means, for example, anyone who carries an adrenaline pen.

The UK regulator issued the advice after two NHS workers who got the jab on the first day of UK roll-out had allergic reactions soon after getting their initial dose. They received treatment quickly and are recovering well.

A severe allergic reaction - known as anaphylaxis - is a very rare side-effect with any vaccine, but it can happen in those at risk. Most people, however, will not be affected in any way.

The MHRA says anyone due to receive their vaccine should discuss any medical history of serious allergies with their healthcare professional beforehand.

Bjornulf



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-10 20:44 by bv.

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grzegorz67

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Hairball

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CaptainCorella

Worth adding about reports from the UK about 2 people who got the Pfizer vaccine having an Anaphylactoid reaction (one step lesser than full on Anaphylaxis). People with allergies now advised not to take it.

Australian media also reporting that this wasn't picked up in testing as people with allergies were excluded from the tests.

Just when you thought the coast was clear...via CNN:

Allergy warning for Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine after UK health workers with allergy history suffer reaction

VACCINE WARNING
_______________________________________________________________


While I don't have any allergies, still a bit concerning, and then the thought there might be other setbacks along the way for the vaccination.
I'm in in no absolute hurry to get it, and wouldn't want to be first in line, but gotta give thanks for those who are ready and willing, and ultimately helping weed out potential problems.

At 53, I'm in Priority group 9 for vaccination so if there are any problems discovered, we'll know well before then. The most vulnerable are getting it first and rightly so, but if there are problems they'll be the ones most affected and will also likely be the least able to withstand them!

Well that's kind of what I was saying grzegorz67 - those first in line (and ready and willing) are brave pioneers willing to taking a risk for those that come after like you and I. Gotta give them thanks, praise, and respect.
Even if this allergic reaction story turns out to be a non-issue or a small bump in the road, there could be other risks involved that haven't been fully detected yet - again respect and thanks for those who are the first in line.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-10 20:43 by Hairball.

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bv
It is not unusual that people with allergies may have issues with vaccines. That is why you are asked to hang around for 20 minutes after you get the vaccine, so that you are still under care of those who understand if it is an allergic reaction. The Pfizer/BioNTech phase 3 clinical trial did actually say that there was 0.12% more allergic reactions with the vaccine vs the placebo. Out of approx 20,000 people getting the vaccine in the phase 3 trial, 0.12% is approx 25 people with such a reaction. The risk and the issues of covid-19 is far more dangerous than an allergic reaction, also, this was related to 0.1% - one out of one thousand.

The two persons in UK who got an allergic reaction on Monday, did both carry an adrenaline pen, i.e. they should not take the vaccine.

Allergy warning for Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine after UK health workers with allergy history suffer reaction (CNN Dec 10)

"In the pivotal phase 3 clinical trial, this vaccine was generally well tolerated with no serious safety concerns reported by the independent Data Monitoring Committee. The trial has enrolled over 44,000 participants to date, over 42,000 of whom have received a second vaccination."

Documents released on Tuesday by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) said the Pfizer/BioNTech trial data indicated that there were potentially slightly more adverse responses thought to be allergic reactions among the vaccine group compared with the placebo group, at 0.63% compared with 0.51%.

When will you be eligible for the Covid vaccine?
What about people with allergies? (BBC 10 December)

Anyone who has previously had a significant allergic reaction to a medicine, food or another vaccine should not have the Pfizer-BioNTech jab.

This means, for example, anyone who carries an adrenaline pen.

The UK regulator issued the advice after two NHS workers who got the jab on the first day of UK roll-out had allergic reactions soon after getting their initial dose. They received treatment quickly and are recovering well.

A severe allergic reaction - known as anaphylaxis - is a very rare side-effect with any vaccine, but it can happen in those at risk. Most people, however, will not be affected in any way.

The MHRA says anyone due to receive their vaccine should discuss any medical history of serious allergies with their healthcare professional beforehand.

Worth adding that the reported allergic reaction of the two patients was Anaphylactoid (sp?) which is a bit LESS severe than full on than Anaphylaxis.

Serious, significant, important, but a tad less dreadful.

All of the other warnings are significant.


I'll add two points. The (Australian) ABC's hugely trusted Medical reporter (Dr Norman Swan) did report that people with allergies were not used for the Pfizer testing cohorts.

And for people who are bemused at to how just about any vaccine can have been tested so swiftly I was given an explanation by my daughter who has a PhD in Biomedical Research. When testing (eg) vaccines you have to allow the test to continue until you have had a large enough number of cases for the results to be significant mathematically. So, if you're dealing with treating a rare condition, waiting to detecte many many cases may take a long time. But when there are a huge number of cases (millions and millions) you get to the required number of test results rather more swiftly than might otherwise be the case. Ironic really.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

From the Associated Press in the US - promising news:

US panel endorses widespread use of Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine

VACCINE

WASHINGTON (AP) — A U.S. government advisory panel endorsed widespread use of Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine Thursday, putting the country just one step away from launching an epic vaccination campaign against the outbreak that has killed close to 300,000 Americans.Shots could begin within days, depending on how quickly the Food and Drug Administration signs off, as expected, on the expert committee’s recommendation.
“This is a light at the end of the long tunnel of this pandemic,” said Dr. Sally Goza, president of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

In a 17-4 vote with one abstention, the government advisers concluded that the vaccine from Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech appears safe and effective for emergency use in adults and teenagers 16 and over.
That endorsement came despite questions about allergic reactions in two people who received the vaccine earlier this week when Britain became the first country to begin dispensing the Pfizer-BioNTech shot. While there are a number of remaining unknowns about the vaccine, in an emergency, “the question is whether you know enough” to press ahead, said panel member Dr. Paul Offit of Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. He concluded that the potential benefits outweigh the risks.

The decision came as COVID-19 cases surge to ever-higher levels across the U.S., with deaths setting an all-time, one-day record of more than 3,100 on Wednesday. Pfizer has said it will have about 25 million doses of the two-shot vaccine for the U.S. by the end of December. But the initial supplies will be reserved primarily for health care workers and nursing home residents, with other vulnerable groups next in line until ramped-up production enables shots to become widely available on demand — something that will probably not happen until the spring. Next week, the FDA will review a second vaccine, from Moderna and the National Institutes of Health, that appears about as protective as Pfizer-BioNTech’s shot. A third candidate, from Johnson & Johnson, which would require just one dose, is working its way through the pipeline. Behind that is a candidate from AstraZeneca and Oxford University. U.S. health experts are hoping a combination of vaccines will ultimately enable the U.S. to conquer the outbreak. But experts estimate at least 70% of the U.S. population will have to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity, the point at which the virus can be held in check. That means it could be several months before things start get back to normal and Americans can put away their masks.

All eyes now turn to the FDA staff scientists who will make the final decision of whether to press ahead with large-scale immunizations with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. FDA’s vaccine director Dr. Peter Marks said ahead of the expert meeting that a decision would come within “days to a week.” The independent review by non-government experts in vaccine development, infectious diseases and medical statistics was considered critical to boosting Americans’ confidence in the safety of the shot, which was developed at breakneck speed less than a year after the virus was identified. Regulators not only in Britain but in Canada have already approved the vaccine for use in their countries, and President Donald Trump and White House officials have complained for weeks about the pace of FDA’s careful review.“Americans want us to do a scientific review, but I think they also want us to make sure we’re not wasting time on paperwork as opposed to going forward with the decision,” FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn said before the meeting.

A positive vote for the vaccine was virtually assured after FDA scientists issued a glowing review of the vaccine earlier in the week. Agency staffers said data from Pfizer’s ongoing study of 44,000 people showed strong protection across different age groups, races and health conditions with no major, unexpected safety problems. The Pfizer-BioNTech shot remains experimental because that final-stage study isn’t complete. As a result, the expert panel wrestled with a list of questions that have yet to be answered. For example, while the vaccine is more than 90% effective in blocking the symptoms of COVID-19, the FDA’s advisers stressed it is not yet clear whether it can stop the silent, symptomless spread that accounts for up to half of all cases. “Even though the individual efficacy of this vaccine is very, very, very high, you really as of right now do not have any evidence” that it will lower transmission, said Dr. Patrick Moore of the University of Pittsburgh. He urged Pfizer to take additional steps to answer that question.

Several of the dissenting panel members objected to authorizing the shot for 16- and 17-year-olds, given their small numbers in the study and the low risk they face from COVID-19. Members worried, too, that Pfizer will lose its opportunity to answer critical questions once it begins offering the real vaccine to study participants who had been getting dummy shots up to now. The company proposed gradually moving those patients to the vaccine group, with priority based on age, health conditions and other factors. Under that plan, 70-year-old participants would cross over before healthy 30-year-olds. Pfizer must still show whether the vaccine works in children younger than 16 and in pregnant women.

On the safety front, as widespread vaccinations begin, the first recipients will be closely tracked by government health authorities since studies in tens of thousands of people can’t detect rare risks that strike 1 in a million. Hanging over the meeting were the British allergic reactions and a warning from authorities there that people with a history of serious reactions shouldn’t get the vaccine for now. Pfizer representatives said they have seen no signs of allergic reactions in their trial. But some of the FDA advisers fear the British warning will deter millions of Americans with allergies who might benefit from the COVID-19 vaccine from giving it a try, and urged additional studies to try to settle the issue. “This issue is not going to die until we have better data,” Offit said.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Chris Fountain

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daspyknows

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Chris Fountain
Seven Thousand (7,000) Eviction Cases filed in Miami! Covid fallout


[www.local10.com]

Meanwhile in Florida the governor ordering gestapo raids on the woman who was reporting the infection statistics.

[www.npr.org]

Most folks are cdc compliant in Florida except for the Miami area where people are bat shit crazy. Concerning the lady who was seized no one really paid much attention despite story being on most news sources. Speaking of Gov DeSantis, he is very popular.

All depends on which side of the aisle you are on. None of my Florida friends have anything positive to say about him.

One of the greatest heroes of our time is Bill Gates. I just saw a news report where he has invested more than a billion dollars in fighting Covid-19. And perhaps more importantly, over many years he has been investing hundreds of millions of dollars to support the companies and infrastructure to fight viruses in general.

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MileHigh
One of the greatest heroes of our time is Bill Gates. I just saw a news report where he has invested more than a billion dollars in fighting Covid-19. And perhaps more importantly, over many years he has been investing hundreds of millions of dollars to support the companies and infrastructure to fight viruses in general.

Bill Gates was involved early on. He was on many of the early town halls on CNN and put his money where his mouth was. He warned Trump early on but Trump wouldn't listen especially after Gates turned down a ceremonial post.

Numbers popping thanks to, eh, let me think for a little bi-THANKSGIVING!

How ridiculous.

I'm not assuming there's a way to know but the people that get together for something like Thanksgiving dinner or supper and say it's 22 people and they all get it, they're clearly choosing to act on their own with no regard to anyone else in the world.

That's pretty much the definition of what a liberal is. Does that make them "libtards" or is that something completely different? I know I'll never be able to go to the toothpaste aisle and just find toothpaste but the way people fling political names around I've just never been able to keep up because it's so stupid and somehow EVERYONE is right.

It makes the joke a bit more serious about if intelligent life has visited us with the sobering answer being No, they're staying away.

Herald Sun ---- 11 December 2020



ROCKMAN

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MileHigh
One of the greatest heroes of our time is Bill Gates. I just saw a news report where he has invested more than a billion dollars in fighting Covid-19. And perhaps more importantly, over many years he has been investing hundreds of millions of dollars to support the companies and infrastructure to fight viruses in general.

The Gate Foundation is also spending big money to try & eradicate diseases that affect the immune system such as RA & lupus (to name a few). Quite possibly my only hope. While I wasn't a fan of some of his business practices, I am grateful for his & his wife's work as philanthropists.

Interesting "find your place line" calculator in the NY Times.
Clearly an estimate, and many factors that could/will change, but interesting to start thinking about the process as the vaccine likely starts rolling out next week.

In my county of about 225,000 the current estimate would put me behind 174,700 others.
My wife, much younger but with first responder status, would be behind only about 10,300 people.

Find Your Place in the Vaccine Line
A vaccine may be around the corner, but how long will it be until you get the shot? Health officials are considering vaccine timelines that give some Americans priority over others. If you’re a healthy American, you may wait many months for your turn.

To put this in perspective, we worked with the Surgo Foundation and Ariadne Labs using their vaccine tool to calculate the number of people who will need a vaccine in each state and county — and where you might fit in that line.
[www.nytimes.com]

The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project. It will be distributed for free.

I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this critical public health project. As if there would be any real difference if the Republicans or the Democrats were in power to deal with this issue.

The answer is there would NOT be any tangible difference between the two approaches. The best thing to do would be to NOT play the political game and instead celebrate a fantastic job done by the thousands and thousands of researchers that worked on the various vaccines, and the millions of people in the health sector, the military, AND the people in government that made this happen. They are ALL HEROS.

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MileHigh
The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project. It will be distributed for free.

I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this critical public health project. As if there would be any real difference if the Republicans or the Democrats were in power to deal with this issue.

The answer is there would NOT be any tangible difference between the two approaches. The best thing to do would be to NOT play the political game and instead celebrate a fantastic job done by the thousands and thousands of researchers that worked on the various vaccines, and the millions of people in the health sector, the military, AND the people in government that made this happen. They are ALL HEROS.

Great news, not only for the USA, but for the world. The world is full of heros, but sadly also filled with idiots. Announcing that drinking toilet cleaner would kill COVID-19 is not politics though, it’s STUPIDITY! Any responsible leader would never do that! THAT is horrifying!

Here's an email (slightly edited) I received from my doctor yesterday about current vaccine status in Washington state:

We know all of you have questions about Covid-19 vaccination and we hope this email provides helpful information and perspective.



You have no doubt heard exciting news regarding highly effective (95%) Covid-19 vaccinations from manufacturers including Pfizer and BioNTech (granted FDA "emergency use authorization" (EUA) status on December 10th) and Moderna (likely to apply for EUA status soon). Both are thought to be very safe (short term side effects of fatigue, injection site soreness, headaches and low-grade fever reported). We strongly support you receive a vaccination when it becomes available.



There are understandable questions about how the distribution will proceed. Washington State will receive its first allotment in mid-December and the second in late December, but the distribution schedule has not been finalized by the state or the local Departments of Health. However, as far as we can tell, it is likely to follow a timeline similar to the CDC recommendations, as outlined below (although of course, this is an uncertain and dynamic process with numerous complexities that may delay availability).



FIRST PHASE:

Tier 1A (beginning mid-December through late January): healthcare workers and first responders such as police officers, firefighters, EMTs and others.

Tier 1B (beginning late December to mid-January): people living in nursing homes

Tier 1C (beginning early February through April): people over 65 years of age and people of all ages with co-morbid medical conditions (such as diabetes, heart disease, chronic lung disease) that place them at moderately-significantly higher risk (see link below, excepting pregnant women and children under the age of 16, in whom the vaccine has not yet been studied).



SECOND PHASE:

(Beginning early April): “essential workers” including teachers and childcare workers; and those in other critical roles whereby working from home is not an option.



THIRD PHASE:

(Beginning early May and into Summer): all other adults.

For those who have already had COVID-19, there will likely be a recommendation that you receive a vaccination as well, although timing has not yet been determined. Until then, you should have some protective immunity as a result of your prior illness.



Given that there will be very limited allocations to Washington State initially, it is still uncertain when it will be available in private clinics but we have applied to be an official distribution center--we will let you as soon as vaccinations are available at SMA or any other locations, such as hospitals, pharmacies, etc. We realize that there are likely to be many questions over the coming weeks and months and we will do our best to keep you informed of the latest developments.



You may rest assured that we remain your advocates in navigating this process successfully.



As always, we hope you remain safe and well during the holiday season.


RESOURCES:

“High-Risk Medical Conditions”:

[www.cdc.gov]



Allocation Phases:

[www.nap.edu]



Washington State Department of Health, Allocation Planning:

[www.doh.wa.gov]

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georgie48

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MileHigh
The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project. It will be distributed for free.

I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this critical public health project. As if there would be any real difference if the Republicans or the Democrats were in power to deal with this issue.

The answer is there would NOT be any tangible difference between the two approaches. The best thing to do would be to NOT play the political game and instead celebrate a fantastic job done by the thousands and thousands of researchers that worked on the various vaccines, and the millions of people in the health sector, the military, AND the people in government that made this happen. They are ALL HEROS.

Great news, not only for the USA, but for the world. The world is full of heros, but sadly also filled with idiots. Announcing that drinking toilet cleaner would kill COVID-19 is not politics though, it’s STUPIDITY! Any responsible leader would never do that! THAT is horrifying!

It is STUPIDITY, but I am sorry it's another form of stupidity. I am not going to do the searching, but wasn't it just a satirical comment and then a few days later he had to clarify to the press that it was a satirical comment? So you are just parroting nonsense, and I am just about 100% certain that you also know it was a satirical comment. Let's raise the lowest common denominator, okay? Living in a world where that kind of nonsense can actually happen is what is truly horrifying.

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georgie48

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MileHigh
The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project. It will be distributed for free.

I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this critical public health project. As if there would be any real difference if the Republicans or the Democrats were in power to deal with this issue.

The answer is there would NOT be any tangible difference between the two approaches. The best thing to do would be to NOT play the political game and instead celebrate a fantastic job done by the thousands and thousands of researchers that worked on the various vaccines, and the millions of people in the health sector, the military, AND the people in government that made this happen. They are ALL HEROS.

Great news, not only for the USA, but for the world. The world is full of heros, but sadly also filled with idiots. Announcing that drinking toilet cleaner would kill COVID-19 is not politics though, it’s STUPIDITY! Any responsible leader would never do that! THAT is horrifying!

No one ever said to drink toilet cleaner. You are doing the exact same thing you are falsely accusing others of - spreading incorrect information. You are part of the problem.

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MileHigh
The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project. It will be distributed for free.

I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this critical public health project. As if there would be any real difference if the Republicans or the Democrats were in power to deal with this issue.

The answer is there would NOT be any tangible difference between the two approaches. The best thing to do would be to NOT play the political game and instead celebrate a fantastic job done by the thousands and thousands of researchers that worked on the various vaccines, and the millions of people in the health sector, the military, AND the people in government that made this happen. They are ALL HEROS.

Every paragraph here politicizes this development, complete with blatant lies.
You must be horrified

This is in spite of the administration, as we all know, Pfizer wasn't involved in their "warp speed" project, initiated after their failed response cost hundreds of thousands of lives.
Like their PPE failure, we will now wait much longer than other countries, and lose thousands of more lives. Per day.

Bill Gates realizes if he doesn't give it away it will be taken away sooner or later, a lesson all the 1% need to take to heart before it becomes too late.

And its not surprising that in real life situations develop that were not forseen in the testing samples. Its a known fact for any computer scientist: know your data and know that despite testing "every" possibility, when your program is put into real life use you will run into cases never covered in your extensive testing and it will probably OC7 your program and you will be looking at a dump to figure out what happened...99% of the time it will be unexpected data that killed it. Same with this: there are going to be cases pop up in real life that had not been foreseen. Its like the exceptions that prove the rule.

jb

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MisterDDDD

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MileHigh
The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project. It will be distributed for free.

I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this critical public health project. As if there would be any real difference if the Republicans or the Democrats were in power to deal with this issue.

The answer is there would NOT be any tangible difference between the two approaches. The best thing to do would be to NOT play the political game and instead celebrate a fantastic job done by the thousands and thousands of researchers that worked on the various vaccines, and the millions of people in the health sector, the military, AND the people in government that made this happen. They are ALL HEROS.

Every paragraph here politicizes this development, complete with blatant lies.
You must be horrified

This is in spite of the administration, as we all know, Pfizer wasn't involved in their "warp speed" project, initiated after their failed response cost hundreds of thousands of lives.
Like their PPE failure, we will now wait much longer than other countries, and lose thousands of more lives. Per day.

No you are wrong. The federal government gave billions and billions of dollars to Pfizer and other drug companies to develop a vaccine. So why are you saying that nonsense? No, the response to the onset of Covid-19 was NOT a failure costing hundreds of thousands of lives. Your statement is political nonsense disconnected from reality. Viruses spread among the population and people die, period. Accept reality. No, there was NO PPE failure. The government worked with industry to expedite the mass production of PPE. One more time, your statement is political nonsense disconnected from reality. No you DON'T wait much longer and you DON'T lose thousands of more lives per day. If the Democrats were in charge you would be in an almost identical situation. Your statement is political nonsense disconnected from reality. You whine about "waiting longer" and "losing thousands of more lives" when right now as we speak millions of United States citizens are mobilized and working to eliminate the virus from our society. It's a country with a huge geographical area and a huge population and that's why things take time. It is what it is so deal with it. Stop your blatant lies.

I agree with MileHigh and view points - I think political views should be abstained from on this website.

However, Mr DDDD is ok in my book.


MileHigh , I'm just speaking in general and not at you with the following -

I refuse to accept or reject anyone on their political beliefs - The situation is is so bi-polar that their is no middle ground there are no winners. I rather have the friendship as opposed to following bullshit politicians who make a living by lying cheating and breaking every Ten Commandment.

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Chris Fountain
I agree with MileHigh and view points - I think political views should be abstained from on this website.

However, Mr DDDD is ok in my book.


MileHigh , I'm just speaking in general and not at you with the following -

I refuse to accept or reject anyone on their political beliefs - The situation is is so bi-polar that their is no middle ground there are no winners. I rather have the friendship as opposed to following bullshit politicians who make a living by lying cheating and breaking every Ten Commandment.

My impression is that MisterDDDD is a perfectly nice person. But we are in such a strange place in society and in our social discourse right now that I felt like pushing back. It irks me sometimes that we can't have civilized rational discourse based on facts and reason and rooted in reality. And I am not just talking about Covid-19, rather I am making a general statement about where we are right now as a society.

As an example and relating it back to Covid-19: It looks like a substantial portion of the population will refuse to take the vaccine. You can't force them to but look at how ridiculous that is. We have TONS of evidence that vaccines work. People that refuse to take the vaccine will simply result in more people getting sick and dying.

And these problems extend into all aspects of life. It happens with respect to science and industry. You should check out Thunderf00t's YouTube channel to see him use knowledge and science to shred ridiculous nonsense to pieces. Rational thought based on facts and reason is the way to go.

[www.youtube.com]

Hi Mile High -I most certainly will.

I just hope there are options for the vaccination injections. My Skin is thick and veins are hard to find on my arms - No weight issues- it's just that my veins are not pronounced.


I mean I don't like to show my ass but this may be the only alternative. Yep, they may have to inject into the posterior.

Uh vaccines do not get injected into your veins. You are confusing vaccinations with heroin. It is not heroin. It gets injected into your tissue not your veins. Vaccines do not need to get into your bloodstream as a route to your brain.

Am I confused about what you are saying?

jb

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MileHigh

My impression is that MisterDDDD is a perfectly nice person. But we are in such a strange place in society and in our social discourse right now that I felt like pushing back. It irks me sometimes that we can't have civilized rational discourse based on facts and reason and rooted in reality. And I am not just talking about Covid-19, rather I am making a general statement about where we are right now as a society.

As an example and relating it back to Covid-19: It looks like a substantial portion of the population will refuse to take the vaccine. You can't force them to but look at how ridiculous that is. We have TONS of evidence that vaccines work. People that refuse to take the vaccine will simply result in more people getting sick and dying.

Look at your original post and answer honestly whether or not you were inserting politics into the discussion, while at the same time bemoaning others who would dare to insert politics into the situation.
I believe you are factually incorrect. (remember when we all could at least agree on facts?) We pre-purchased $1.9B (not "billions and billions") of vaccine from them in JULY and were offered more, but declined. They received zero funding beyond that and were not involved in project "warp speed" at the beginning, but are now in the distribution.

Normally wouldn't respond at all to a political post such as yours.
But the hypocrisy was dumbfounding.
Recap:
"I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this"
"President Trump deserves a lot of credit..."

Also, if you don't believe Pfizer (or The NY Times), feel free to bring some receipts. We can disagree, that's fine.. but if your going to scream "blatant lies" show me your evidence or proof.

Was the Pfizer vaccine part of the government’s Operation Warp Speed?
"In July, Pfizer got a $1.95 billion deal with the government’s Operation Warp Speed, the multiagency effort to rush a vaccine to market, to deliver 100 million doses of the vaccine. The arrangement is an advance-purchase agreement, meaning that the company won’t get paid until they deliver the vaccines. Pfizer did not accept federal funding to help develop or manufacture the vaccine, unlike front-runners Moderna and AstraZeneca.

Pfizer has distanced itself from Mr. Trump and Operation Warp Speed. In an interview on Sunday, Kathrin Jansen, a senior vice president and the head of vaccine research and development at Pfizer, said, “We were never part of the Warp Speed,” adding, “we have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”
[www.nytimes.com]

Trump Administration Passed on Chance to Secure More of Pfizer Vaccine
WASHINGTON — Before Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine was proved highly successful in clinical trials last month, the company offered the Trump administration the chance to lock in supplies beyond the 100 million doses the pharmaceutical maker agreed to sell the government as part of a $1.95 billion deal over the summer.

But the administration, according to people familiar with the talks, never made the deal, a choice that now raises questions about whether the United States allowed other countries to take its place in line.
[www.nytimes.com]

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bleedingman

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georgie48

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MileHigh
The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project. It will be distributed for free.

I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this critical public health project. As if there would be any real difference if the Republicans or the Democrats were in power to deal with this issue.

The answer is there would NOT be any tangible difference between the two approaches. The best thing to do would be to NOT play the political game and instead celebrate a fantastic job done by the thousands and thousands of researchers that worked on the various vaccines, and the millions of people in the health sector, the military, AND the people in government that made this happen. They are ALL HEROS.

Great news, not only for the USA, but for the world. The world is full of heros, but sadly also filled with idiots. Announcing that drinking toilet cleaner would kill COVID-19 is not politics though, it’s STUPIDITY! Any responsible leader would never do that! THAT is horrifying!

No one ever said to drink toilet cleaner. You are doing the exact same thing you are falsely accusing others of - spreading incorrect information. You are part of the problem.

I was a bit too hasty with using the term "toilet cleaner". In fact he mentioned the option of using disinfectants (toilet cleaners are also used to disinfect, right?) on humans to deal with the virus. Just as stupid. Anyway, doctors should communicate on a serious issue as Covid-19, not political leaders.
Too many leaders (one is already too many) took the liberty to call Covid-19 to be "just a flu". They consider themselves better than the actual experts, forced to sit on the sideline. By the way, I love to be part of problems, but what is "the problem"?

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MisterDDDD

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MileHigh

My impression is that MisterDDDD is a perfectly nice person. But we are in such a strange place in society and in our social discourse right now that I felt like pushing back. It irks me sometimes that we can't have civilized rational discourse based on facts and reason and rooted in reality. And I am not just talking about Covid-19, rather I am making a general statement about where we are right now as a society.

As an example and relating it back to Covid-19: It looks like a substantial portion of the population will refuse to take the vaccine. You can't force them to but look at how ridiculous that is. We have TONS of evidence that vaccines work. People that refuse to take the vaccine will simply result in more people getting sick and dying.

Look at your original post and answer honestly whether or not you were inserting politics into the discussion, while at the same time bemoaning others who would dare to insert politics into the situation.
I believe you are factually incorrect. (remember when we all could at least agree on facts?) We pre-purchased $1.9B (not "billions and billions") of vaccine from them in JULY and were offered more, but declined. They received zero funding beyond that and were not involved in project "warp speed" at the beginning, but are now in the distribution.

Normally wouldn't respond at all to a political post such as yours.
But the hypocrisy was dumbfounding.
Recap:
"I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this"
"President Trump deserves a lot of credit..."

Also, if you don't believe Pfizer (or The NY Times), feel free to bring some receipts. We can disagree, that's fine.. but if your going to scream "blatant lies" show me your evidence or proof.

Was the Pfizer vaccine part of the government’s Operation Warp Speed?
"In July, Pfizer got a $1.95 billion deal with the government’s Operation Warp Speed, the multiagency effort to rush a vaccine to market, to deliver 100 million doses of the vaccine. The arrangement is an advance-purchase agreement, meaning that the company won’t get paid until they deliver the vaccines. Pfizer did not accept federal funding to help develop or manufacture the vaccine, unlike front-runners Moderna and AstraZeneca.

Pfizer has distanced itself from Mr. Trump and Operation Warp Speed. In an interview on Sunday, Kathrin Jansen, a senior vice president and the head of vaccine research and development at Pfizer, said, “We were never part of the Warp Speed,” adding, “we have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”
[www.nytimes.com]

Trump Administration Passed on Chance to Secure More of Pfizer Vaccine
WASHINGTON — Before Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine was proved highly successful in clinical trials last month, the company offered the Trump administration the chance to lock in supplies beyond the 100 million doses the pharmaceutical maker agreed to sell the government as part of a $1.95 billion deal over the summer.

But the administration, according to people familiar with the talks, never made the deal, a choice that now raises questions about whether the United States allowed other countries to take its place in line.
[www.nytimes.com]

I said, "The federal government gave billions and billions of dollars to Pfizer and other drug companies."

[www.npr.org]

<<< Gottlieb noted that the government has agreements to buy hundreds of millions of doses of vaccines from six manufacturers as part of Operation Warp Speed, the Trump administration's more than $10 billion push to make a coronavirus vaccine available in record time. He suspects the government is betting more than one vaccine would ultimately get the FDA's authorization. >>>

<<< Although a Pfizer board member says the government declined to buy more doses beyond the initial 100 million agreed upon in July, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar told PBS Newshour that this is inaccurate. The company never made a formal offer saying how many doses it would deliver and when — two things that are needed to sign an additional deal. >>>

So what I stated was factually correct. The federal government agreed to buy 100 million doses from Pfizer in July. The article also states that the federal government refused to pay for more than the initial 100 million doses up-front because Pfizer refused to give a delivery date for more doses. It sounds like sound business practice when you have multiple vendors to deal with. Yes, let's agree on facts.

<<< "They refused to commit to any other production or delivery by a time certain," he said, explaining that the initial doses will be delivered by March, and there is an option for the government to buy another 500 million after that. "I'm certainly not going to sign a deal with Pfizer, giving them $10 billion to buy vaccine that they could deliver to us five, 10 years hence. That doesn't make any sense." >>>

Saying "President Trump deserves lots of credit" is not a political statement. One more time, it's just a statement of fact with no political spin at all. A major milestone has been achieved and the man deserves credit for being a key part of it. It's only in your head that you want to believe that it's a political statement.

I never stated that Pfizer was part of operation Warp Speed, did I? So I am not sure what your link is attempting to prove. You are trying to make a straw man argument.

There is nothing "wrong" with the arrangement between Pfizer and the federal government as your second NY Times article is trying to suggest. The federal government had 10 billion dollars to use to get the US population a Covid-19 vaccine. The arrangement with Pfizer is what it is and any Monday-morning quarterbacking is just sour grapes. The government IS a business and if you have worked in business it's ultra rare to put cash up front if your vendor will not put a delivery date on his quote. That makes the quote meaningless and there is no way you are going to cut a Purchase Order with nonsensical terms like that.

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bleedingman

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georgie48

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MileHigh
The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project. It will be distributed for free.

I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this critical public health project. As if there would be any real difference if the Republicans or the Democrats were in power to deal with this issue.

The answer is there would NOT be any tangible difference between the two approaches. The best thing to do would be to NOT play the political game and instead celebrate a fantastic job done by the thousands and thousands of researchers that worked on the various vaccines, and the millions of people in the health sector, the military, AND the people in government that made this happen. They are ALL HEROS.

Great news, not only for the USA, but for the world. The world is full of heros, but sadly also filled with idiots. Announcing that drinking toilet cleaner would kill COVID-19 is not politics though, it’s STUPIDITY! Any responsible leader would never do that! THAT is horrifying!

No one ever said to drink toilet cleaner. You are doing the exact same thing you are falsely accusing others of - spreading incorrect information. You are part of the problem.

Just injecting bleach. [www.youtube.com] No denying he said that.

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MileHigh

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MisterDDDD

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MileHigh
The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project. It will be distributed for free.

I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this critical public health project. As if there would be any real difference if the Republicans or the Democrats were in power to deal with this issue.

The answer is there would NOT be any tangible difference between the two approaches. The best thing to do would be to NOT play the political game and instead celebrate a fantastic job done by the thousands and thousands of researchers that worked on the various vaccines, and the millions of people in the health sector, the military, AND the people in government that made this happen. They are ALL HEROS.

Every paragraph here politicizes this development, complete with blatant lies.
You must be horrified

This is in spite of the administration, as we all know, Pfizer wasn't involved in their "warp speed" project, initiated after their failed response cost hundreds of thousands of lives.
Like their PPE failure, we will now wait much longer than other countries, and lose thousands of more lives. Per day.

No you are wrong. The federal government gave billions and billions of dollars to Pfizer and other drug companies to develop a vaccine. So why are you saying that nonsense? No, the response to the onset of Covid-19 was NOT a failure costing hundreds of thousands of lives. Your statement is political nonsense disconnected from reality. Viruses spread among the population and people die, period. Accept reality. No, there was NO PPE failure. The government worked with industry to expedite the mass production of PPE. One more time, your statement is political nonsense disconnected from reality. No you DON'T wait much longer and you DON'T lose thousands of more lives per day. If the Democrats were in charge you would be in an almost identical situation. Your statement is political nonsense disconnected from reality. You whine about "waiting longer" and "losing thousands of more lives" when right now as we speak millions of United States citizens are mobilized and working to eliminate the virus from our society. It's a country with a huge geographical area and a huge population and that's why things take time. It is what it is so deal with it. Stop your blatant lies.

Pfizer DID NOT take warpspeed dollars. They had a batch of vaccines sold to the US Govt assuming FDA clearance which is very different. No clearance, no money. On top of that, the Trump administration chose not to exercise option on second 100 dose batch so get the facts straight.

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MileHigh
"The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project"

Ok.. you said "billions", which is as I stated and linked to, is not factually correct.

They were on their way to producing the vaccine without government funds.
We pre-purchased in July (payable when vaccine approved) 100 million doses.

We declined more and now will quite likely (unless new administration is able to somehow correct this blunder) be waiting until July for more. A different manufacturer/product may come before,
but the Pfizer deal was blown.
There's his credit you seek.

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daspyknows

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MileHigh

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MisterDDDD

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MileHigh
The US FDA has approved the the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. It's fantastic news and the government is ready to roll. It's a triumph of medicine, science, and government and President Trump deserves a lot of credit for expediting the process and putting billions of dollars of government money into this project. It will be distributed for free.

I am horrified by people that have tried to politicize this critical public health project. As if there would be any real difference if the Republicans or the Democrats were in power to deal with this issue.

The answer is there would NOT be any tangible difference between the two approaches. The best thing to do would be to NOT play the political game and instead celebrate a fantastic job done by the thousands and thousands of researchers that worked on the various vaccines, and the millions of people in the health sector, the military, AND the people in government that made this happen. They are ALL HEROS.

Every paragraph here politicizes this development, complete with blatant lies.
You must be horrified

This is in spite of the administration, as we all know, Pfizer wasn't involved in their "warp speed" project, initiated after their failed response cost hundreds of thousands of lives.
Like their PPE failure, we will now wait much longer than other countries, and lose thousands of more lives. Per day.

No you are wrong. The federal government gave billions and billions of dollars to Pfizer and other drug companies to develop a vaccine. So why are you saying that nonsense? No, the response to the onset of Covid-19 was NOT a failure costing hundreds of thousands of lives. Your statement is political nonsense disconnected from reality. Viruses spread among the population and people die, period. Accept reality. No, there was NO PPE failure. The government worked with industry to expedite the mass production of PPE. One more time, your statement is political nonsense disconnected from reality. No you DON'T wait much longer and you DON'T lose thousands of more lives per day. If the Democrats were in charge you would be in an almost identical situation. Your statement is political nonsense disconnected from reality. You whine about "waiting longer" and "losing thousands of more lives" when right now as we speak millions of United States citizens are mobilized and working to eliminate the virus from our society. It's a country with a huge geographical area and a huge population and that's why things take time. It is what it is so deal with it. Stop your blatant lies.

Pfizer DID NOT take warpspeed dollars. They had a batch of vaccines sold to the US Govt assuming FDA clearance which is very different. No clearance, no money. On top of that, the Trump administration chose not to exercise option on second 100 dose batch so get the facts straight.

Pfizer closed a deal in July with the US government for the delivery of 100 million doses. I am going to assume that falls under the umbrella of project Warp Speed.

In a sense it's kind of moot. The bottom line is that the US government was very aggressive and had 10 billion dollars to find a solution to resolve this crisis. Many times you heard about purchasing the vaccine ahead of time and stockpiling it while it was waiting to be approved by the FDA. They were willing to buy vaccines in high volume in advance even before they were approved so that they could be rolled out within 24 hours of approval. Did that really happen? I am not sure.

Note that in my lifetime that is an absolutely unheard of concept. Normally you wait for approval, and then once you get approval then you go into production and wait X months for the vaccine to be delivered in volume. To buy ahead of time represents a commitment to get the ball rolling as soon as possible in order to save lives and get the economy rolling again. Getting the economy rolling also saves lives.

Anyway, I am going to predict that the timeline for getting a vaccination is going to be much faster than what is being stated in the media. The average fifty-something is not going to have to wait until the Fall to get vaccinated. Chances are they will get vaccinated in the Spring. Call it another "Big Blunder" just like the Big Blunder about wearing face masks. Remember the continuous propaganda where people were told not to wear them?

The glass is half full and filling up quickly!