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bv

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Big Al
How do the survival rates compare between cardiac arrest and a Covid-19 infection? Yes, the virus can kill, but surely, one is more likely to die from a heart attack?

And your point is what?

You stated that you’re surprised that people think the virus is less fatal than a heart attack. For the vast, vast majority, it is less fatal. I don’t find the general public’s view surprising at all.

My issue is not with the virus, particularly. I understand it’s taken many lives. I just disagree with lockdowns and tier-systems: especially the former. The effect it had on too many people’s mental health, etc; mine include. A former colleague committed suicide due to the isolation from her friends in London and her family in Spain.

Wear a face-covering? Yes.
Social distancing? Yes.
Lockdown? Absolutely not.

Wear a face-covering? Yes.
Social distancing? Yes.
Lockdown? Absolutely not.


We all can't overlook washing our hands... Touching our face and eyes in particular when we aren't even aware can spell disaster.

When this thing started to kick off and we went into lockdown in March here in the U.K. the government set out a plan with 5 key points that needed to be achieved before we could come out of lockdown.
During the lockdown there was a survey conducted which posed the question would you be happy to remain in lockdown after the 5 key points had been achieved with 23% of people surveyed answering yes.

Nate

As BV has explained in clear detail, the big difference remains that you can’t catch a heart attack or cancer from other people. If something as infectious as this virus is not somehow contained, it will cause way more havoc and deaths than anything else. Would it that everyone wore a mask and distanced. The stark truth is that not everyone does. So yeah, let the thing run wild and eat words.

I don't think the problem with covid-19 is lockdown or not.

The problem with covid-19 is the fact that some people simply party, they have large weddings, they have large family dinners, and they are in large groups without masks and without social distance.

In Norway they blame 300 virus clusters for most of the cases we have had since August. We do not have lockdown. These 300 clusters are typically people who were more than 10 in a group celebrating something, or just a party, or a group in a bar. Without these clusters, we would have had just a small fraction of cases. Already, we have the smallest numbers in Europe per population, but still these clusters are a very clear explanation of how things work. Stupidity. Ignorance. Death from covid-19 following.

Now, for a month or so, the fine in Norway has been NOK 20,000 i.e. $2,000 per person - individual and personal fine to be paid - for breaking the limit of 10 people in a party or a group. Since then our corona cases have been dropping. So sure we do not need lockdown. We just need social distance, masks, and respect for the current rules. Plus the real hefty fines for those who still think covid-19 is to be ignored.

Bjornulf

Excerpt from You Tube:

Queen - Under Pressure (Official Video)
183,184,386 views•

I wonder if this has anything to do with having an enclosed feeling like it is a major task just to turn the PC on and do your job. It is a strange world now. Shit, Waking up at 2:30 on purpose to go out and run wind sprints just to be alone when we're isolated anyway? Making quick trips to Home Depot---Yes get that St. Aug grass and buy a ceiling fan. Crap I would never think about this type of things when I'm in a real work environment.

It is for our own good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-10 01:44 by Chris Fountain.

BIG NEWS -

I was correct in speculating that Santa & Reindeer would wear Shields!

Despite infected himself Santa will deliver! See article below

[weeklyworldnews.com]

If the US followed the path taken by Norway or Australia things would not be nearly as bad. Stupid people left to their own devices (they call it freedom) led by a stupid leader who doesn't listen to science and lots of people end up in body bags. Even with the rules imposed by the governments of Norway or Australia I am not naïve enough to say thinks in the US would be like those countries but it might be 30K cases a day and a few hundred deaths a day (still to many). Instead there are more than 200K new cases a day and between 2500 and 3000 deaths a day. Anyone stupid enough to think being fully open will make the economy hum with those infection rates is seriously wrong. The people who understand the risks are staying home and the economy is sputtering. Until it is safe, the economic hardship will be there.

Today was the deadliest day in American history. Over 3,000 dead. Even more than 9/11, Pearl Harbor or the SF Earthquake in 1906. Not sure anyone can sugar coat that but I expect someone will.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-10 04:06 by daspyknows.

There will be no X-mas gatherings with family for us this year outside of the household.
Also ordering most things (even food) online now and trying to be even more diligent about all the precautions.
No one wants to be the person lying in a hospital bed, struggling, watching a cheap tv on the wall showing people lining up for or getting the vaccine.

Unbelievable failure.


Virus Updates: US Sets Single-Day Record as More Than 3,000 Die of COVID-19

An NBC News tally confirmed there were 3,046 COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. on Wednesday, a single-day record.

The previous record was set on Dec. 3, with 2,802 deaths.

Dec. 3 also saw a record of 219,394 COVID-19 cases for a single day; that number for Wednesday stood at 189,925 cases.
[www.nbcchicago.com]

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daspyknows
If the US followed the path taken by Norway or Australia things would not be nearly as bad. Stupid people left to their own devices (they call it freedom) led by a stupid leader who doesn't listen to science and lots of people end up in body bags. Even with the rules imposed by the governments of Norway or Australia I am not naïve enough to say thinks in the US would be like those countries but it might be 30K cases a day and a few hundred deaths a day (still to many). Instead there are more than 200K new cases a day and between 2500 and 3000 deaths a day. Anyone stupid enough to think being fully open will make the economy hum with those infection rates is seriously wrong. The people who understand the risks are staying home and the economy is sputtering. Until it is safe, the economic hardship will be there.

Today was the deadliest day in American history. Over 3,000 dead. Even more than 9/11, Pearl Harbor or the SF Earthquake in 1906. Not sure anyone can sugar coat that but I expect someone will.

This just makes me want to cry as an American and as a human being. I'm speechless.

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SomeTorontoGirl

Today just took the #3 spot.

9/11 was so overrated. The USA is involved or implicated in more deaths than that worldwide every day and no one even says anything about it. Its only when American citizens die that we seem to care.

jb

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jbwelda
9/11 was so overrated. The USA is involved or implicated in more deaths than that worldwide every day and no one even says anything about it. Its only when American citizens die that we seem to care.

jb

Horseshit.
All of it.

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jbwelda
9/11 was so overrated. The USA is involved or implicated in more deaths than that worldwide every day and no one even says anything about it. Its only when American citizens die that we seem to care.

jb

Please. If I told you for every million person-hours of using a cell phone six people get brain cancer and die would you say it's time to ban all cell phones? If you did you would be forgetting the fact that for every million person-hours of using a cell phone about 8000 lives are saved. This is just a hypothetical example.

Likewise, if the US pulled out off all of its interests worldwide, you would see an unprecedented level of savagery and brutality the likes of which the world has never seen before. Chances are that hundreds of thousands of people would die every single day. Rwanda anyone?

More than a third of Americans live where hospitals are running critically short of intensive care beds.

Our analysis of federal data shows a detailed picture of the U.S. hospital crisis, showing occupancy rates last week — the pandemic's deadliest week.

Hospitals that serve more than 100 million people in the U.S. reported having fewer than 15% of intensive care beds available as of last week, according to the data released by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.


[www.nytimes.com]

Canada has approved a German vaccine and it will arrive next week. This interview clarifies the cold chain requirements for this vaccine and presumably many other vaccines.

Major shipping companies already support a deep-freeze cold chain down to -70C. Although there are not many storage centers that can support -70C long-term storage, there is no issue at all. All that you need is to have portable storage containers filled with dry ice. If you replenish the dry ice every five days then you are fine. So you can literally ship the vaccine in a cooler that you use for camping.

Dry ice is an industrial commodity that you can get just about anywhere in a modern industrial country. So the picture keeps on getting better and better looking.

[youtu.be]

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MileHigh

Quote
jbwelda
9/11 was so overrated. The USA is involved or implicated in more deaths than that worldwide every day and no one even says anything about it. Its only when American citizens die that we seem to care.

jb

Please. If I told you for every million person-hours of using a cell phone six people get brain cancer and die would you say it's time to ban all cell phones? If you did you would be forgetting the fact that for every million person-hours of using a cell phone about 8000 lives are saved. This is just a hypothetical example.

Likewise, if the US pulled out off all of its interests worldwide, you would see an unprecedented level of savagery and brutality the likes of which the world has never seen before. Chances are that hundreds of thousands of people would die every single day. Rwanda anyone?

The difference would be (assuming your stats are true which there is no evidence) is if my use of the cell phone gave you brain cancer. That's Covid.

>Horseshit. All of it.


Hook line and sinker

Nonetheless, sorry for the diversion.

jb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-10 06:54 by jbwelda.

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MileHigh
Canada has approved a German vaccine and it will arrive next week...

We hope. There’s the little matter of the recent ‘America First’ executive order.

[www.thestar.com]

“ OTTAWA—The first shipment of a newly-approved COVID-19 vaccine destined for Canada departs Friday on a journey now more perilous because of President Donald Trump’s executive order declaring vaccines should go to Americans first.

That’s because the first 30,000 doses from Pfizer/BioNTech will be loaded on a UPS plane at Puurs, Belgium, which then flies through Cologne, Germany, and onto Louisville, Kentucky, before being divvied up on planes travelling on to Canada.

“If all goes well,” said Canada’s co-ordinator of the massive operation, Maj.-Gen. Dany Fortin, the customized thermal shippers containing the precious cargo will arrive at 14 different sites across Canada Monday. And an unprecedented national vaccination campaign would begin with injections in Canadian arms starting Tuesday.

However, Fortin acknowledged there is a risk, although slight, to the Canadian vaccine shipment because of Trump’s order. “We’re looking at all the risks associated with transport,” he told the Star after a briefing.

A senior government official said the Trudeau government’s analysis is that the risk is low because Trump’s order does not mention the Defence Production Act — the law Trump invoked to try to block earlier shipments of 3M N95 masks to Canada. But it’s not zero, the official acknowledged...”

The USA data that f.i. SomeTorontoGirl and MisterDDDD have shown are the painful truth. Well, over here in Europe things are not much "better" (except some small population countries that bv has mentioned). Even Germany, that had done "quite well" is now facing major problems. Around 40 - 60% of people don't want a vaccination, because they don't trust the "translated" (interpretations of what scientists say) words of politicians. Covid-19 would call "freedom of choice" differently ... "stupidity". It will rage on thanks to that kind of "freedom of choice". I don't mention people with bad other underlying illnesses, like f.i. bad allergies (recent experiences in the UK), they should be taken care of differently, but for otherwise healthy people vaccination should be mandetory or else the light at the end of the tunnel will still be far away.
A hundred years ago the world was still ignorent, so the "Spanish" flu could kill between 50-200 million people (translated to today maybe 100-400 million). Thanks to all the media coverage the term ignorent is no longer in place, but sometimes I wonder if "stupidity" is the new danger for mankind ( pharmaceutical companies think differently for sure )
Anyway, I will continue to wear a mask, wash my hands and keep distance (the latter sometimes very difficult, but that's what happens with 7.5 billion people around).
Stay healthy and avoid that other virus called "stupidity".

This is why the second wave is so bad now, as we are more indoor:

Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus’ spread indoors (Los Angeles Times Dec. 9, 2020)

... at a restaurant in Jeonju, a city in southwestern South Korea, where diners contracted the coronavirus from an out-of-town visitor. Among them was a high school student who became infected after five minutes of exposure from more than 20 feet away.

“In this outbreak, the distances between infector and infected persons were ... farther than the generally accepted 2 meter [6.6-foot] droplet transmission range,” the study’s authors wrote. “The guidelines on quarantine and epidemiological investigation must be updated to reflect these factors for control and prevention of COVID-19.”

The official definition of a “close contact” — 15 minutes, within six feet — isn’t foolproof.

Bjornulf

Quote
MileHigh
Canada has approved a German vaccine and it will arrive next week. This interview clarifies the cold chain requirements for this vaccine and presumably many other vaccines.

Major shipping companies already support a deep-freeze cold chain down to -70C. Although there are not many storage centers that can support -70C long-term storage, there is no issue at all. All that you need is to have portable storage containers filled with dry ice. If you replenish the dry ice every five days then you are fine. So you can literally ship the vaccine in a cooler that you use for camping.

Dry ice is an industrial commodity that you can get just about anywhere in a modern industrial country. So the picture keeps on getting better and better looking.

[youtu.be]

I can't quite ouyt my finger on it, but something seems wrong about a vaccine that needs dry ice that can be got anywhere in a modern industrial country.

Doesn't that rule out quite a high proportion of places around the world?

Worth adding about reports from the UK about 2 people who got the Pfizer vaccine having an Anaphylactoid reaction (one step lesser than full on Anaphylaxis). People with allergies now advised not to take it.

Australian media also reporting that this wasn't picked up in testing as people with allergies were excluded from the tests.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Seven Thousand (7,000) Eviction Cases filed in Miami! Covid fallout


[www.local10.com]

Quote
daspyknows
If the US followed the path taken by Norway or Australia things would not be nearly as bad. Stupid people left to their own devices (they call it freedom) led by a stupid leader who doesn't listen to science and lots of people end up in body bags. Even with the rules imposed by the governments of Norway or Australia I am not naïve enough to say thinks in the US would be like those countries but it might be 30K cases a day and a few hundred deaths a day (still to many). Instead there are more than 200K new cases a day and between 2500 and 3000 deaths a day. Anyone stupid enough to think being fully open will make the economy hum with those infection rates is seriously wrong. The people who understand the risks are staying home and the economy is sputtering. Until it is safe, the economic hardship will be there.

Today was the deadliest day in American history. Over 3,000 dead. Even more than 9/11, Pearl Harbor or the SF Earthquake in 1906. Not sure anyone can sugar coat that but I expect someone will.

I had the same thoughts last night in regards to Pearl Harbor and 9/11 . Never ever did i think that something would have that effect of those 2 horrendous and dark days in US History ! It's so crazy how the naysayers say heart attacks and cancer kill more , with the big difference being that they are not air borne and they have never led to large scale shutdowns . Don't shut down/lockdown for fear of hurting the economy . How can anyone make money in this climate if many will not go out and do normal things and spend money normally as in pre pandemic times ? These are far from normal times and that has been really hard for me to wrap my head around .

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Chris Fountain
Seven Thousand (7,000) Eviction Cases filed in Miami! Covid fallout


[www.local10.com]

Meanwhile in Florida the governor ordering gestapo raids on the woman who was reporting the infection statistics.

[www.npr.org]

Shoplifting (stealing) from Merchants on rise big time!

[www.chron.com]

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daspyknows

Quote
Chris Fountain
Seven Thousand (7,000) Eviction Cases filed in Miami! Covid fallout


[www.local10.com]

Meanwhile in Florida the governor ordering gestapo raids on the woman who was reporting the infection statistics.

[www.npr.org]

Most folks are cdc compliant in Florida except for the Miami area where people are bat shit crazy. Concerning the lady who was seized no one really paid much attention despite story being on most news sources. Speaking of Gov DeSantis, he is very popular.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-10 19:09 by Chris Fountain.

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CaptainCorella

Worth adding about reports from the UK about 2 people who got the Pfizer vaccine having an Anaphylactoid reaction (one step lesser than full on Anaphylaxis). People with allergies now advised not to take it.

Australian media also reporting that this wasn't picked up in testing as people with allergies were excluded from the tests.

Just when you thought the coast was clear...via CNN:

Allergy warning for Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine after UK health workers with allergy history suffer reaction

VACCINE WARNING
_______________________________________________________________


While I don't have any allergies, still a bit concerning, and then the thought there might be other setbacks along the way for the vaccination.
I'm in in no absolute hurry to get it, and wouldn't want to be first in line, but gotta give thanks for those who are ready and willing, and ultimately helping weed out potential problems.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball

Quote
CaptainCorella

Worth adding about reports from the UK about 2 people who got the Pfizer vaccine having an Anaphylactoid reaction (one step lesser than full on Anaphylaxis). People with allergies now advised not to take it.

Australian media also reporting that this wasn't picked up in testing as people with allergies were excluded from the tests.

Just when you thought the coast was clear...via CNN:

Allergy warning for Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine after UK health workers with allergy history suffer reaction

VACCINE WARNING
_______________________________________________________________


While I don't have any allergies, still a bit concerning, and then the thought there might be other setbacks along the way for the vaccination.
I'm in in no absolute hurry to get it, and wouldn't want to be first in line, but gotta give thanks for those who are ready and willing, and ultimately helping weed out potential problems.

At 53, I'm in Priority group 9 for vaccination so if there are any problems discovered, we'll know well before then. The most vulnerable are getting it first and rightly so, but if there are problems they'll be the ones most affected and will also likely be the least able to withstand them!