How many will die?

If 50% of the population is not vaccinated, then the remaining 50% of the population will get covid-19 over time.

Take a look at UK vs Russia right now:

UK: A large part of the adults have got covid-19 vaccine, with 115 vaccine doses per 100 people. The Delta variant is increasing rapidly, but because of the vaccination rate, just 300 or so people have died from covid-19 this month, through June.

Russia: Just 27 covid-19 vaccine doses per 100 people, i.e. 25% of the UK vaccination rate. Delta is taking over in Russia, and with few vaccinated, more than 600 people die from covid-19 every day right now.

Covid-19 does not care if you are young, old, conservative, religious, right, left, or if you just think you are strong. It will mess up many many lives over the next years, for sure, and the only safe protection is the vaccine.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-29 18:55 by bv.

It's curious too how many folks will say "we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccine" as a reason for hesitancy or outright refusal to be vaccinated. Yet, they are okay with the equally unknown long-term effects of getting covid, just so long as they don't die?

The vaccine is also the best defense against emerging and potentially more dangerous variants, which also is a concept that seems lost on some of the anti-vax crowd.

‘Bringing back mask mandate is a good idea’:

"Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials found that about half of adults infected by the Delta variant in the country were fully vaccinated, the Wall Street Journal reported, and as it stands now, the Delta variant is likely causing about 90% of new infections in Israel."

[www.yahoo.com]

Quote
bleedingman
‘Bringing back mask mandate is a good idea’:

"Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials found that about half of adults infected by the Delta variant in the country were fully vaccinated, the Wall Street Journal reported, and as it stands now, the Delta variant is likely causing about 90% of new infections in Israel."

[www.yahoo.com]

this is totally concerning, as they were the country at the forefront of controlling through vaccination. I understand that in the breakthrough cases so far, the severity is much less for those that are double vaxxed - though not always. From a local health professional I also learned that there are discussions of boosters in the Fall, though with the news that the RNa vaccines seem to have ongoing efficacy perhaps that'll only be the plan for the Astra Zeneca crowd.

Regardless here we are with a variant that is wreaking havoc and so many that choose to forego a potentially lifesaving shot of insurance, and by doing so virtually ensure there'll be yet more variants and maybe worse ones.

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
bleedingman
‘Bringing back mask mandate is a good idea’:

"Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials found that about half of adults infected by the Delta variant in the country were fully vaccinated, the Wall Street Journal reported, and as it stands now, the Delta variant is likely causing about 90% of new infections in Israel."

[www.yahoo.com]

this is totally concerning, as they were the country at the forefront of controlling through vaccination. I understand that in the breakthrough cases so far, the severity is much less for those that are double vaxxed - though not always. From a local health professional I also learned that there are discussions of boosters in the Fall, though with the news that the RNa vaccines seem to have ongoing efficacy perhaps that'll only be the plan for the Astra Zeneca crowd.

Regardless here we are with a variant that is wreaking havoc and so many that choose to forego a potentially lifesaving shot of insurance, and by doing so virtually ensure there'll be yet more variants and maybe worse ones.

I believe I read somewhere viruses usually mutate to less dangerous varieties. The virus' goal is survival so killing it's host isn't optimal. So hopefully a worse variant isn't on the horizon. But I'm no doctor so if anyone knows more please weigh in.

I went to a medical facility yesterday and a guy sitting across from me was talking and coughing on his phone to someone involved with the facility, said he wasn't feeling good, and he said he needed to get vaxxed "because of his job."

I guess that's becoming a thing? Probably a good idea.

There is no golden rule on how a virus is mutating. So far the new corona virus has mutated thousands of times. Most of these mutants are no longer around. We had one very fast moving variant in Norway last fall - the bus virus - it was on a bus with elderly people, on travel to several cities in Norway. Many got it, few got seriously ill, but that variant just expired. The Alpha and Delta variants are more fatal, moving faster, also among children, and more people end up in hospital. They get dominant because they move so fast. Sure it would be great to have a very mild mutant that simply "vaccinated" all of us, with a mild illness, but that is just wishful thinking.

I remember reading about the 1918 pandemic (a.k.a. the Spanish flu). From memory, it started off relatively mild, then a more dangerous and fatal mutant hit hard during the following winter, killing many young people. Now, one hundred years later, virus move a lot faster, from India to the rest of the world in just days or few months by the volume. I think a lot of new virus knowledge has been found now, with covid-19, as compared to the 1918 pandemic, when world travel took weeks rather than hours.

Bjornulf

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kovach

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treaclefingers

Quote
bleedingman
‘Bringing back mask mandate is a good idea’:

"Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials found that about half of adults infected by the Delta variant in the country were fully vaccinated, the Wall Street Journal reported, and as it stands now, the Delta variant is likely causing about 90% of new infections in Israel."

[www.yahoo.com]

this is totally concerning, as they were the country at the forefront of controlling through vaccination. I understand that in the breakthrough cases so far, the severity is much less for those that are double vaxxed - though not always. From a local health professional I also learned that there are discussions of boosters in the Fall, though with the news that the RNa vaccines seem to have ongoing efficacy perhaps that'll only be the plan for the Astra Zeneca crowd.

Regardless here we are with a variant that is wreaking havoc and so many that choose to forego a potentially lifesaving shot of insurance, and by doing so virtually ensure there'll be yet more variants and maybe worse ones.

I believe I read somewhere viruses usually mutate to less dangerous varieties. The virus' goal is survival so killing it's host isn't optimal. So hopefully a worse variant isn't on the horizon. But I'm no doctor so if anyone knows more please weigh in.

The virus doesn't have a 'goal'. It exists and it will evolve in random ways and each time it mutates you have the potential for it to go really badly or not so badly. It's a crap shoot. Logically, the virus goal should be not to kill it's host, but who is gonna communicate that to the virus?

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treaclefingers

Quote
bleedingman
‘Bringing back mask mandate is a good idea’:

"Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials found that about half of adults infected by the Delta variant in the country were fully vaccinated, the Wall Street Journal reported, and as it stands now, the Delta variant is likely causing about 90% of new infections in Israel."

[www.yahoo.com]

this is totally concerning, as they were the country at the forefront of controlling through vaccination. I understand that in the breakthrough cases so far, the severity is much less for those that are double vaxxed - though not always. From a local health professional I also learned that there are discussions of boosters in the Fall, though with the news that the RNa vaccines seem to have ongoing efficacy perhaps that'll only be the plan for the Astra Zeneca crowd.

Regardless here we are with a variant that is wreaking havoc and so many that choose to forego a potentially lifesaving shot of insurance, and by doing so virtually ensure there'll be yet more variants and maybe worse ones.

It is concerning for a number of reasons. On the plus side, fully vaccinated individuals unfortunate enough to be infected with a break through usually have very mild symptoms. On the negative, there may be such individuals who, while infected, are asymptomatic and because they are vaccinated, are unaware that they may be carriers and possibly infecting others. Hence the new mask guidelines for fully vaccinated individuals. So, yes, concerning and keep in mind that we are only 6-7 months into the vaccinations. Still, the data so far seems to overwhelmingly support the efficacy of being fully vaccinated. So far. Fingers crossed and good health to all.

From the Washington Post:

Opinion: The delta variant is bringing back the dark clouds of last year
Opinion by the Editorial Board
June 29, 2021 at 3:29 p.m. PDT

Coronavirus

THE DELTA variant is raining on our parade. Just when many people want to celebrate a return to normalcy, confident of vaccine protection, the delta variant is bringing back the dark clouds of last year. In the United States, face masks and social distancing are being recommended anew, while around the world, lockdowns and travel bans are back in the fight against this highly-transmissible variant, a particular threat to the unvaccinated and a reminder that covid-19 will indeed be a long haul.

The good news is that vaccines, the most important measure to fight the virus, are holding the line for those who have received them. Research so far suggests delta is between 40 and 60 percent more transmissible than the alpha variant first identified in the United Kingdom, which was 50 percent more transmissible than the original virus. Those without vaccines are in serious jeopardy. Hospital admissions for covid-19 around the country are largely made up of the unvaccinated. “This is a pandemic of unvaccinated people,” Los Angeles County Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer said last week.

Yet, even those who have received a full vaccine dose are more and more often hearing advice to resume taking precautions. On Monday, Los Angeles County recommended that everyone wear masks in public indoor spaces, even though more than 54 percent of California’s population over age 12 is fully vaccinated. Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker (D) made a similar suggestion; 53.7 percent of the state’s population over 12 has been fully inoculated. “I would say from my own perspective if you’re going into a heavily crowded area, you don’t know if somebody is not vaccinated and so you should just bring your mask with you and keep safe,” Mr. Pritzker said. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has previously said that the fully vaccinated can do without masks, but on Friday, the World Health Organization urged fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks, social distance and practice other mitigations. These shifts back to earlier measures ought not provoke fury and resistance. As the virus changes, so will measures to fight it.

Delta, now about 20 percent of the cases in the United States, may become predominant in a matter of weeks and has spread swiftly elsewhere. In the face of a surge of delta cases, doubling every few days, Israel reinstated its mask mandate 10 days after lifting it. Major cities in Australia, including Sydney, Perth, Brisbane and Melbourne, are under lockdown because of delta. Cases are skyrocketing in Russia again, which has a low vaccination uptake. In Africa, a third wave is rapidly gaining steam, with cases rising for five consecutive weeks, and delta has been detected in 14 countries.

What delta means is that the battle against the coronavirus will be ongoing for some time, possibly years. We have to be flexible and determined, using all the tools available. Most obviously, when we have a tool that works and a vaccine, why would we not take full advantage?

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

As always do your research. But what I read about Delta is: More infectious by 50%. The good news is it less virulent. So if you catch Delta and come down with symptoms/illness, it is not as bumpy a ride as the original Covid19. Some say it is like low grade flu or common cold.

Above must be confirmed, but I have been reading this about Delta. The way it performs in the developed nations.

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triceratops
So if you catch Delta and come down with symptoms/illness, it is not as bumpy a ride as the original Covid19.
Some say it is like low grade flu or common cold.

If we're talking about vaccinated people then for the most part true, but as far as the unvaccinated it could be a death sentence.
That said, even those who are fully vaccinated are at risk of severe symptpoms/illness, though the risk is much lower than being unvaccinated.

From healthline.com:

With the rapid spread of the delta variant in the United States, coronavirus cases are spiking in parts of the country, especially in areas with low COVID-19 vaccination rates.
This has led to surges in COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths, largely among people who are not fully vaccinated.
Although fully vaccinated people have a much lower risk of severe illness, their health could still be impacted as COVID-19 surges send ripples
throughout the healthcare system, something we’ve seen throughout the pandemic.

Delta

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
triceratops
As always do your research. But what I read about Delta is: More infectious by 50%. The good news is it less virulent. So if you catch Delta and come down with symptoms/illness, it is not as bumpy a ride as the original Covid19. Some say it is like low grade flu or common cold.

Above must be confirmed, but I have been reading this about Delta. The way it performs in the developed nations.

It actually is worse, and as well seems to be skewing more deadly towards the young. Break through cases are being seen in even double vaxxed, but that's where the symptoms are less severe.

Studies to date suggest the Delta variant is between 40 and 60 percent more transmissible than the Alpha variant first identified in the U.K.

There is some indication that the Delta variant may also result in more severe disease. A study in Scotland, published in the Lancet, found the hospitalization rate of patients with that variant was about 85 percent higher than that of people with the Alpha variant.

How Dangerous Is the Delta Variant, and Will It Cause a COVID Surge in the U.S.? (Scientific American June 29, 2021)

Bjornulf

Scanning through this thread, I cannot help but sense the negativity and pessimism; and what’s with the, almost, OCD-like obsession with stats?? Let’s focus on opening-up and living alongside this virus, minus restrictions. Covid is going nowhere, seemingly and time waits for no-one. Let’s just live!

Here in the UK, we’ll hopefully be fully open on July 19. Ministers are saying there will be no backtracking on this promise. Goodbye social-distancing - although, is there really any distancing anymore? - and hello to face-coverings becoming optional. It’s looking like the covid-passport scheme may nite the dust, too. There’s far too much opposition. Of course, travel-wise, it’s different, and we’ll have to abide by their rules - fair enough! - but here in the U.K., we’ll hopefully do without.

Even though I'm fully vaccinated I had to go get a COVID test yesterday due to some procedures being done at the hospital on Friday. I was happy to find out that the test now doesn't involve the "brain scrape". Swab was taken in both nostrils but they didn't shove all the way up the sinuses like before.

I am elegible for the Astrazeneca vaccine, but if I wait a few months I can have the Pfizer vaccine. I have read that the FDA in the USA does not recognise Astrazeneca. Can someone confirm this for me please.

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keeffan
I am elegible for the Astrazeneca vaccine, but if I wait a few months I can have the Pfizer vaccine. I have read that the FDA in the USA does not recognise Astrazeneca. Can someone confirm this for me please.

It's recognized in situations such as going to see Bruce Springsteen on Broadway but it is not approved for dispersal in the US because of the blood clotting issue. It is being studied & there's a good chance it will approved for use soon here.

It's disappointing to see your post removed as soon as the tide turns in another direction from the herd on all things covid, surely i and others that agree can have a point of view and not be breaking any rules here, this is a rigged situation on this thread, very disappointed, play fair or don't play at all, because this thread has become political and i thought politics was banned in iorr.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-30 19:29 by Rocktiludrop.

From CNN. Brazil is seeing children affected by Covid. I thought only old fat people were affected by Covid


Covid-19 is killing Brazilian children at alarming rates. Many may be going undiagnosed
By Vasco Cotovio, Isa Soares, Rodrigo Pedroso and Marcia Reverdosa, CNN

Updated 10:27 AM ET, Wed June 30, 2021
Children in Brazil have been dying from Covid-19 at higher rates than nearly anywhere else in the world. Doctors and researchers say the country's higher child death rate stems from several issues but the main culprit is social inequality. CNN's Isa Soares reports.
São Paulo, Brazil (CNN)"Who's mommy's little girl?" 22-year-old Brazilian Sameque Gois asks as she plays with her baby's tiny hand, in one of the several videos she showed CNN. In the footage, little Sarah responds to her mother with an ear-to-ear smile.

Sarah was born in January this year. Despite having a few issues during pregnancy that caused her baby to be born prematurely, Gois says her daughter was generally healthy. But after she took her baby girl to the Casa de Saúde Hospital in São Paulo's coastal city of Santos to treat a urinary tract infection, Sarah started to present persistent fever and flu-like symptoms.
"When her symptoms started, the doctors said it was bronchiolitis, that it wasn't anything serious," Gois explains. But her daughter would not recover.
As Sarah's condition deteriorated, Gois says she felt helpless. "All I knew was that she was in a serious condition and that she could go at any moment. I knew that the only thing I could do was to get on my knees and pray," she said.
Despite her pleas, her daughter died from Covid-19 on May 27. She was just five months old.

Sarah's case is one of many in Brazil. The Brazilian Health Ministry says 1,122 children under the age of 10 have died from Covid-19 since the pandemic started. The Brazilian government records the number people who died from severe acute respiratory diseases -- such as severe cases of the flu, and others.

However, researchers from global health organization Vital Strategies, which works in more than 70 countries around the world, say its studies suggest such case numbers have been severely underreported.
When comparing the number of Brazilian child deaths from such illnesses in 2018 and 2019 with the number of deaths since the beginning of the pandemic, Vital Strategies found an excess 2,975 deaths. The organization says it's likely that the vast majority of these excess deaths -- not just the official number of 1,122 -- were because of Covid-19.

"What we see in Brazil is that the number of kids dying with Covid specified as the cause of death is higher than what we are seeing in other countries of the world -- it's 10 times higher," Dr. Ana Luiza Bierrenbach, an epidemiologist at Vital Strategies, told CNN.
In the United States, the only country in the world with a higher overall official death toll than Brazil's, far fewer children have died from Covid-19 -- 382 Americans under the age of 18, according to CDC data.
Bierrenbach adds that the coronavirus variant known as Gamma or P.1, which was first identified in Brazil, may not be entirely to blame.
"Kids have been dying more in Brazil since the original variant was here, so it was not the addition of the P.1 variant that made kids die more here than in other countries," she said.
Recognizing Covid-19 in children
Covid-19 is widely shown to have a more severe impact on the elderly than the very young. Even if all 2,975 excess child deaths were caused by Covid-19, children are still dying in much lower numbers than adults -- the overall death toll in Brazil is now more than 514,000. Researchers fear that this small representation of children in Covid fatalities is causing some doctors to miss diagnoses in their youngest patients.

"Truthfully, Covid-19 in children was neglected at the beginning of the pandemic," says Brazilian pediatrician Dr. Andre Laranjeira.
"A lot of pediatricians had a certain resistance when it came to requesting Covid-19 tests for children, when they were exhibiting those typical respiratory tract symptom -- runny nose, cough, fever -- practically all children have those symptoms this time of the year, in the autumn, and some doctors were not testing them," he says.

According to Gois, it took 12 days after baby Sarah developed the first symptoms before doctors tested her for Covid-19. It was only when Gois herself was diagnosed with Covid-19 that doctors tested her daughter.
Dr. Marisa Dolhnikoff, a lung specialist and researcher at the São Paulo University Medical School has been studying the impact of the novel coronavirus on children and adolescents, and says children with Covid-19 could present symptoms different from the ones exhibited by adults with the disease.
"If a child presents high fever, (skin) rash, abdominal pain, doctors could potentially think of other diagnosis and not relate it to Covid-19," Dolhnikoff says.
"We need to be aware that these different kinds of symptoms can be related to Covid-19 and these children can present a very severe disease."
Disparity in treatment
And while different symptoms might throw off some doctors, most physicians and researchers also agree the main culprit for Brazil's higher Covid-19 death rate in children is likely disparities in the country's health care system -- although Brazilians benefit from universal health care, there are vast differences in quality of treatment between private elite hospitals and small or rural public health care providers.
"In large centers we are prepared to deal with these children and we have very, very good ICUs but it doesn't apply for the whole country," Dolhnikoff explains. "We have a lot of poor regions in the country that struggle to deal with this situation."
Bierrenbach at Vital Strategies agrees that inequality could be at play.
"Why is this happening? Probably due to higher vulnerability, lack of access to good quality health care," Bierrenbach says. "Maybe they are undernourished, and they perish more from Covid."
More than half of Brazilians -- 116 million people -- faced food insecurity in 2020. Of those, 19 million people, or 9% of the population, are starving, according to the Brazilian Network for Research in Sovereignty and Food and Nutrition Security.
Laranjeira says the disparity shows up not just in the quality of accessible health care, but also in how they are affected by the disease.
"When you take the fatalities within the pediatric age group, more than 60% are from vulnerable socio-economic groups," he concludes. "It's impossible to turn a blind eye to that."
Journalists Rodrigo Pedroso and Marcia Reverdosa reported from São Paulo. CNN's Vasco Cotovio and Isa Soares reported from London. Reporting also contributed by Juliana Koch in São Paulo.

How COVID-19 swept California’s mariachis

Mariachi

Hundreds of mariachis come to Boyle Heights in Los Angeles from across the United States and Mexico, in search of work. They gather at Mariachi Plaza, a small park with a bandstand and kiosk that holds a special place in their hearts because it was donated by the Mexican State of Jalisco, the birthplace of this music. They wait for people to call or stop by to hire them. But the pandemic hit mariachi bands brutally. Most work dried up, as events were cancelled through the spring and summer of 2020. Some musicians performed at gatherings that defied California’s shelter-in-place rules and social distancing protocols. Without any other source of income, musicians felt they had no choice but to accept jobs even at the risk of coronavirus exposure. More than 50 mariachi musicians have died of COVID-19 over the past year, said Israel Moreno, president of the Organization of Independent Mariachis of California (OMICAL) in Boyle Heights. About 80% of the group’s roughly 270 members have gotten infected, he said. OMICAL members have rallied to collect donations of food and money, and the group has helped grieving families. “We would give a box of food to the mariachis every week,” Moreno said. “For those who passed away we would look for their families to let them know or helped with donations to repatriate the body to their country.” Business has picked up for mariachis since the worst days of the pandemic. But it will take a long time for the community to fully recover from the physical, emotional and financial damage.

“I thought we were going to be OK”

Alex Cisneros has worked as a mariachi for over 25 years. He is proud to say he has supported his family with this job. Cisneros, the leader of Mariachi Nuevo Guadalajara, said the band was hired to perform at a house event in celebration of Father’s Day last June. There was a crowd of a few dozen people. At the time the state prohibited gatherings but police didn’t enforce the rule at residences. Cisneros plays the violin and sings. Three days before the event, the six musicians who planned to attend got tested for the coronavirus to make sure they were not infected. All of them tested negative. “I thought we were going to be OK,” Cisneros said. When they arrived at the party, they tried to keep some distance from the crowd. But as they continued to play, guests pushed in closer. “We kept moving back but there was a point where we couldn’t move anymore,” Cisneros said. Singing and playing brass instruments such as trumpets, a mariachi staple, are considered especially risky for coronavirus transmission because they release respiratory particles through the air. As he was driving home, Cisneros felt a dry cough and his throat hurt. Initially he ignored the symptoms, thinking his throat was sore from singing. He went to bed, but by the next day he had fever, diarrhea, and extreme pain in his bones. He was shivering and vomited. He called his bandmates and cautioned them. As days passed, his health deteriorated. His headaches worsened and he started having harsh pain in his lungs. When he could no longer handle the pain, he went to a hospital near his home in Boyle Heights. “But there were so many people when I arrived that doctors told me I was still breathing and that they couldn’t take me in,” he said. “While I was at the hospital I had a strong headache and pain on my left arm. I thought at that moment I was going to die.” He tested positive for the coronavirus, but, unable to get proper medical care at the hospital, Cisneros went home. His whole family became infected. They were sick for about two months, but their symptoms were lighter than his. Cisneros said that when the pandemic started, a friend who was part of another group but had no job started working with his band. A few months later, the man died of COVID. Cisneros said the news was devastating for him, but he’s thankful that Mariachi Nuevo Guadalajara did not suffer major losses.

Back to work — performing at funerals

The hiring of mariachis began increasing last fall. But instead of happy celebrations, most jobs were to play at funerals. For a while at the beginning of this year, some bands played at one funeral, or more, almost every day. “Recently we played in a funeral at Rose Hills cemetery and we counted in a perimeter of about 100 meters eight funerals,” Israel Moreno said. Francisco Hernandez, violinist of Mariachi Los Potrillos and vice president of OMICAL, said the worst part of playing at funerals is seeing a child mourn a parent or a grandparent. “I really try to hold my own tears when I see them because their tears are real when they cry for their loved ones,” said Hernandez. Hernandez said there has been so much demand to play at funerals that mariachis wish there were more hours during the day. California dropped mask mandates on June 15. Cisneros said his band is booked mainly on weekends, and he is grateful that he has been able to go back to work. But nearly a year after he contracted COVID-19, he still suffers from its effects. Although medical experts encourage people who’ve had COVID to get vaccinated, even if they have persistent symptoms, Cisneros has put it off because he fears he’ll have a bad reaction. “I still have throat pain, my lungs hurt, and I think even my kidneys got damaged…I have a lot of headaches too,” he said. “I forget things a lot, my body aches and my bones hurt a lot when it’s cold.”



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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-30 19:41 by Hairball.

Quote
bv
Studies to date suggest the Delta variant is between 40 and 60 percent more transmissible than the Alpha variant first identified in the U.K.

There is some indication that the Delta variant may also result in more severe disease. A study in Scotland, published in the Lancet, found the hospitalization rate of patients with that variant was about 85 percent higher than that of people with the Alpha variant.

How Dangerous Is the Delta Variant, and Will It Cause a COVID Surge in the U.S.? (Scientific American June 29, 2021)

Perhaps more important than how transmissible the Delta variant is, or any other strain come to think of it, more importantly is whether it's killing people or not, all viruses throughout history become weaker over time, why would we assume this virus is any different ?
Yes it's more transmissible but is it more of a threat ? Possibly it is, maybe it is, possibly maybe, the article is not very specific, still using the fear factor, initially restrictions were to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, i really hope people try to move on with their lives now, looking over your shoulder for variants that could possibly be a threat is over reacting, be cautious yes, overreact no, it's bordering on obsessional behaviour, how much of this is a real threat and how much of it is just looking for things, if you look hard enough you tend to find what you are looking for, somewhere in the world people are dying, that's a fact, it's nothing new.
Personally i live in one Country, one Town in that Country, looking at what's happening on the other side of the planet is not healthy, if England had a bad winter with record deaths from Flu and Influenza would it be of concern to someone living in India or Brazil, no it wouldn't and it never has before this.
It's simple if we are worried about India or Brazil then restrict travel from those Countries and get on with living our lives where we live, obviously help those Countries as much as possible and live your life, the summer's here, enjoy.

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Rocktiludrop

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bv
Studies to date suggest the Delta variant is between 40 and 60 percent more transmissible than the Alpha variant first identified in the U.K.

There is some indication that the Delta variant may also result in more severe disease. A study in Scotland, published in the Lancet, found the hospitalization rate of patients with that variant was about 85 percent higher than that of people with the Alpha variant.

How Dangerous Is the Delta Variant, and Will It Cause a COVID Surge in the U.S.? (Scientific American June 29, 2021)

Perhaps more important than how transmissible the Delta variant is, or any other strain come to think of it, more importantly is whether it's killing people or not, all viruses throughout history become weaker over time, why would we assume this virus is any different ?
Yes it's more transmissible but is it more of a threat ? Possibly it is, maybe it is, possibly maybe, the article is not very specific, still using the fear factor, initially restrictions were to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, i really hope people try to move on with their lives now, looking over your shoulder for variants that could possibly be a threat is over reacting, be cautious yes, overreact no, it's bordering on obsessional behaviour, how much of this is a real threat and how much of it is just looking for things, if you look hard enough you tend to find what you are looking for, somewhere in the world people are dying, that's a fact, it's nothing new.
Personally i live in one Country, one Town in that Country, looking at what's happening on the other side of the planet is not healthy, if England had a bad winter with record deaths from Flu and Influenza would it be of concern to someone living in India or Brazil, no it wouldn't and it never has before this.
It's simple if we are worried about India or Brazil then restrict travel from those Countries and get on with living our lives where we live, obviously help those Countries as much as possible and live your life, the summer's here, enjoy.

Not true. If what you said was true only China would have been affected. One sick person with the new variant getting on a plane and arriving at your town would be enough to start a local outbreak of those unvaccinated.

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daspyknows

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Rocktiludrop

Quote
bv
Studies to date suggest the Delta variant is between 40 and 60 percent more transmissible than the Alpha variant first identified in the U.K.

There is some indication that the Delta variant may also result in more severe disease. A study in Scotland, published in the Lancet, found the hospitalization rate of patients with that variant was about 85 percent higher than that of people with the Alpha variant.

How Dangerous Is the Delta Variant, and Will It Cause a COVID Surge in the U.S.? (Scientific American June 29, 2021)

Perhaps more important than how transmissible the Delta variant is, or any other strain come to think of it, more importantly is whether it's killing people or not, all viruses throughout history become weaker over time, why would we assume this virus is any different ?
Yes it's more transmissible but is it more of a threat ? Possibly it is, maybe it is, possibly maybe, the article is not very specific, still using the fear factor, initially restrictions were to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, i really hope people try to move on with their lives now, looking over your shoulder for variants that could possibly be a threat is over reacting, be cautious yes, overreact no, it's bordering on obsessional behaviour, how much of this is a real threat and how much of it is just looking for things, if you look hard enough you tend to find what you are looking for, somewhere in the world people are dying, that's a fact, it's nothing new.
Personally i live in one Country, one Town in that Country, looking at what's happening on the other side of the planet is not healthy, if England had a bad winter with record deaths from Flu and Influenza would it be of concern to someone living in India or Brazil, no it wouldn't and it never has before this.
It's simple if we are worried about India or Brazil then restrict travel from those Countries and get on with living our lives where we live, obviously help those Countries as much as possible and live your life, the summer's here, enjoy.

Not true. If what you said was true only China would have been affected. One sick person with the new variant getting on a plane and arriving at your town would be enough to start a local outbreak of those unvaccinated.

I see what you mean, and you are correct, but historically viruses become weaker over time.

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Rocktiludrop

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daspyknows

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Rocktiludrop

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bv
Studies to date suggest the Delta variant is between 40 and 60 percent more transmissible than the Alpha variant first identified in the U.K.

There is some indication that the Delta variant may also result in more severe disease. A study in Scotland, published in the Lancet, found the hospitalization rate of patients with that variant was about 85 percent higher than that of people with the Alpha variant.

How Dangerous Is the Delta Variant, and Will It Cause a COVID Surge in the U.S.? (Scientific American June 29, 2021)

Perhaps more important than how transmissible the Delta variant is, or any other strain come to think of it, more importantly is whether it's killing people or not, all viruses throughout history become weaker over time, why would we assume this virus is any different ?
Yes it's more transmissible but is it more of a threat ? Possibly it is, maybe it is, possibly maybe, the article is not very specific, still using the fear factor, initially restrictions were to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, i really hope people try to move on with their lives now, looking over your shoulder for variants that could possibly be a threat is over reacting, be cautious yes, overreact no, it's bordering on obsessional behaviour, how much of this is a real threat and how much of it is just looking for things, if you look hard enough you tend to find what you are looking for, somewhere in the world people are dying, that's a fact, it's nothing new.
Personally i live in one Country, one Town in that Country, looking at what's happening on the other side of the planet is not healthy, if England had a bad winter with record deaths from Flu and Influenza would it be of concern to someone living in India or Brazil, no it wouldn't and it never has before this.
It's simple if we are worried about India or Brazil then restrict travel from those Countries and get on with living our lives where we live, obviously help those Countries as much as possible and live your life, the summer's here, enjoy.

Not true. If what you said was true only China would have been affected. One sick person with the new variant getting on a plane and arriving at your town would be enough to start a local outbreak of those unvaccinated.

I see what you mean, and you are correct, but historically viruses become weaker over time.

The new corona virus is not "just another new virus". Do you have a medical reference of a serious kind stating what you say? So far the ALPHA and DELTA variants have gone worse, more fatal statistically, and they take more lives, until more than 90% of the population is vaccinated. Also, DELTA is probably the main concern of any tour plans, including the Stones. They do not make tour plans on wishful thinking.

Bjornulf

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bv

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Rocktiludrop

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daspyknows

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Rocktiludrop

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bv
Studies to date suggest the Delta variant is between 40 and 60 percent more transmissible than the Alpha variant first identified in the U.K.

There is some indication that the Delta variant may also result in more severe disease. A study in Scotland, published in the Lancet, found the hospitalization rate of patients with that variant was about 85 percent higher than that of people with the Alpha variant.

How Dangerous Is the Delta Variant, and Will It Cause a COVID Surge in the U.S.? (Scientific American June 29, 2021)

Perhaps more important than how transmissible the Delta variant is, or any other strain come to think of it, more importantly is whether it's killing people or not, all viruses throughout history become weaker over time, why would we assume this virus is any different ?
Yes it's more transmissible but is it more of a threat ? Possibly it is, maybe it is, possibly maybe, the article is not very specific, still using the fear factor, initially restrictions were to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, i really hope people try to move on with their lives now, looking over your shoulder for variants that could possibly be a threat is over reacting, be cautious yes, overreact no, it's bordering on obsessional behaviour, how much of this is a real threat and how much of it is just looking for things, if you look hard enough you tend to find what you are looking for, somewhere in the world people are dying, that's a fact, it's nothing new.
Personally i live in one Country, one Town in that Country, looking at what's happening on the other side of the planet is not healthy, if England had a bad winter with record deaths from Flu and Influenza would it be of concern to someone living in India or Brazil, no it wouldn't and it never has before this.
It's simple if we are worried about India or Brazil then restrict travel from those Countries and get on with living our lives where we live, obviously help those Countries as much as possible and live your life, the summer's here, enjoy.

Not true. If what you said was true only China would have been affected. One sick person with the new variant getting on a plane and arriving at your town would be enough to start a local outbreak of those unvaccinated.

I see what you mean, and you are correct, but historically viruses become weaker over time.

The new corona virus is not "just another new virus". Do you have a medical reference of a serious kind stating what you say? So far the ALPHA and DELTA variants have gone worse, more fatal statistically, and they take more lives, until more than 90% of the population is vaccinated. Also, DELTA is probably the main concern of any tour plans, including the Stones. They do not make tour plans on wishful thinking.

Well in the past viruses have got weaker, that's common knowledge, viruses need us to be alive to infect us. I'm not saying these variants are weaker, I'm saying we don't know for a fact they are stronger, especially as so many people have been vaccinated now, hopefully it's not going to be a major threat.

Since this virus seems to have been created in a lab, no one knows how it's going to mutate, especially IF the intent by the Chinese was to create a bioweapon.

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bleedingman
Since this virus seems to have been created in a lab, no one knows how it's going to mutate, especially IF the intent by the Chinese was to create a bioweapon.

I do think it's a bioweapon, at what point do we start putting the last 16 months behind us. In the UK the NHS has a huge backlog of cancer and heart treatments, diagnosis, screening, it's not as if these strains are of the utmost concern regarding illness and deaths, certainly not at this point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-30 22:25 by Rocktiludrop.

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Rocktiludrop

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bv

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Rocktiludrop

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daspyknows

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Rocktiludrop

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bv
Studies to date suggest the Delta variant is between 40 and 60 percent more transmissible than the Alpha variant first identified in the U.K.

There is some indication that the Delta variant may also result in more severe disease. A study in Scotland, published in the Lancet, found the hospitalization rate of patients with that variant was about 85 percent higher than that of people with the Alpha variant.

How Dangerous Is the Delta Variant, and Will It Cause a COVID Surge in the U.S.? (Scientific American June 29, 2021)

Perhaps more important than how transmissible the Delta variant is, or any other strain come to think of it, more importantly is whether it's killing people or not, all viruses throughout history become weaker over time, why would we assume this virus is any different ?
Yes it's more transmissible but is it more of a threat ? Possibly it is, maybe it is, possibly maybe, the article is not very specific, still using the fear factor, initially restrictions were to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, i really hope people try to move on with their lives now, looking over your shoulder for variants that could possibly be a threat is over reacting, be cautious yes, overreact no, it's bordering on obsessional behaviour, how much of this is a real threat and how much of it is just looking for things, if you look hard enough you tend to find what you are looking for, somewhere in the world people are dying, that's a fact, it's nothing new.
Personally i live in one Country, one Town in that Country, looking at what's happening on the other side of the planet is not healthy, if England had a bad winter with record deaths from Flu and Influenza would it be of concern to someone living in India or Brazil, no it wouldn't and it never has before this.
It's simple if we are worried about India or Brazil then restrict travel from those Countries and get on with living our lives where we live, obviously help those Countries as much as possible and live your life, the summer's here, enjoy.

Not true. If what you said was true only China would have been affected. One sick person with the new variant getting on a plane and arriving at your town would be enough to start a local outbreak of those unvaccinated.

I see what you mean, and you are correct, but historically viruses become weaker over time.

The new corona virus is not "just another new virus". Do you have a medical reference of a serious kind stating what you say? So far the ALPHA and DELTA variants have gone worse, more fatal statistically, and they take more lives, until more than 90% of the population is vaccinated. Also, DELTA is probably the main concern of any tour plans, including the Stones. They do not make tour plans on wishful thinking.

Well in the past viruses have got weaker, that's common knowledge, viruses need us to be alive to infect us. I'm not saying these variants are weaker, I'm saying we don't know for a fact they are stronger, especially as so many people have been vaccinated now, hopefully it's not going to be a major threat.

First of all, we know for a fact that these particular variants are stronger. You personally may not know that, but don't presume that information isn't out there, just because you haven't accessed it.

Secondly, you say we don't know that they are stronger, particularly because so many people have been vaccinated now. Just because people are vaccinated doesn't mean the virus isn't stronger. It means that more people are protected against it, despite it being stronger. It can still be stronger, especially for those not vaccinated, which is rather the point we're trying to make here.

Additionally, there are a lot of 'break-through' cases where people that are double vaxxed that get ill, go into the hospital and even die. The numbers here are significantly smaller than those not being vaccinated, but just evidence that this particular variant is not weaker, but more virulent.

It has also been shown to be more dangerous to young people.

As far as your armchair notation that in the past, virus' get weaker, that is a fact. OK, even if that is the case, that is in the 'long run'. The current evidence is not pointing to this with this virus which of course may change...or not.

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treaclefingers

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Rocktiludrop

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bv

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Rocktiludrop

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daspyknows

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Rocktiludrop

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bv
Studies to date suggest the Delta variant is between 40 and 60 percent more transmissible than the Alpha variant first identified in the U.K.

There is some indication that the Delta variant may also result in more severe disease. A study in Scotland, published in the Lancet, found the hospitalization rate of patients with that variant was about 85 percent higher than that of people with the Alpha variant.

How Dangerous Is the Delta Variant, and Will It Cause a COVID Surge in the U.S.? (Scientific American June 29, 2021)

Perhaps more important than how transmissible the Delta variant is, or any other strain come to think of it, more importantly is whether it's killing people or not, all viruses throughout history become weaker over time, why would we assume this virus is any different ?
Yes it's more transmissible but is it more of a threat ? Possibly it is, maybe it is, possibly maybe, the article is not very specific, still using the fear factor, initially restrictions were to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed, i really hope people try to move on with their lives now, looking over your shoulder for variants that could possibly be a threat is over reacting, be cautious yes, overreact no, it's bordering on obsessional behaviour, how much of this is a real threat and how much of it is just looking for things, if you look hard enough you tend to find what you are looking for, somewhere in the world people are dying, that's a fact, it's nothing new.
Personally i live in one Country, one Town in that Country, looking at what's happening on the other side of the planet is not healthy, if England had a bad winter with record deaths from Flu and Influenza would it be of concern to someone living in India or Brazil, no it wouldn't and it never has before this.
It's simple if we are worried about India or Brazil then restrict travel from those Countries and get on with living our lives where we live, obviously help those Countries as much as possible and live your life, the summer's here, enjoy.

Not true. If what you said was true only China would have been affected. One sick person with the new variant getting on a plane and arriving at your town would be enough to start a local outbreak of those unvaccinated.

I see what you mean, and you are correct, but historically viruses become weaker over time.

The new corona virus is not "just another new virus". Do you have a medical reference of a serious kind stating what you say? So far the ALPHA and DELTA variants have gone worse, more fatal statistically, and they take more lives, until more than 90% of the population is vaccinated. Also, DELTA is probably the main concern of any tour plans, including the Stones. They do not make tour plans on wishful thinking.

Well in the past viruses have got weaker, that's common knowledge, viruses need us to be alive to infect us. I'm not saying these variants are weaker, I'm saying we don't know for a fact they are stronger, especially as so many people have been vaccinated now, hopefully it's not going to be a major threat.

First of all, we know for a fact that these particular variants are stronger. You personally may not know that, but don't presume that information isn't out there, just because you haven't accessed it.

Secondly, you say we don't know that they are stronger, particularly because so many people have been vaccinated now. Just because people are vaccinated doesn't mean the virus isn't stronger. It means that more people are protected against it, despite it being stronger. It can still be stronger, especially for those not vaccinated, which is rather the point we're trying to make here.

Additionally, there are a lot of 'break-through' cases where people that are double vaxxed that get ill, go into the hospital and even die. The numbers here are significantly smaller than those not being vaccinated, but just evidence that this particular variant is not weaker, but more virulent.

It has also been shown to be more dangerous to young people.

As far as your armchair notation that in the past, virus' get weaker, that is a fact. OK, even if that is the case, that is in the 'long run'. The current evidence is not pointing to this with this virus which of course may change...or not.

No we don't know they are stronger, the link BV sent said it's possible they are, maybe they are, we keep hearing doom and gloom and nothing comes of it, Boris was predicting four thousand deaths per day before Christmas it didn't happen.

Everyone has been banging on about the Indian variant for ages, are you actually saying things are worse now than when covid started with hardly anyone in the UK dying directly as a result of covid, that's stretching it a bit, never mind you completely miss the point.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-30 22:43 by Rocktiludrop.