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Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: February 26, 2020 22:03

I’m in the minority here, but I couldn’t see the album with a different opener. I love the song; it’s voodoo, grimy blues, rock, and Jamaican.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: February 26, 2020 22:15

Quote
TravelinMan
I’m in the minority here, but I couldn’t see the album with a different opener. I love the song; it’s voodoo, grimy blues, rock, and Jamaican.

I'm not so sure that you are.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: JordyLicks96 ()
Date: February 26, 2020 22:47

Quote
TravelinMan
I’m in the minority here, but I couldn’t see the album with a different opener. I love the song; it’s voodoo, grimy blues, rock, and Jamaican.

You are not alone here. I love "Dancing With Mr. D." It was different for the Stones starting an album off with a moody, dark and funk inspired tune rather than some rocker like "Rocks Off" from EXILE. I think it's a great representation of GOATS HEAD SOUP.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: February 26, 2020 23:11

Quote
JordyLicks96
Quote
TravelinMan
I’m in the minority here, but I couldn’t see the album with a different opener. I love the song; it’s voodoo, grimy blues, rock, and Jamaican.

You are not alone here. I love "Dancing With Mr. D." It was different for the Stones starting an album off with a moody, dark and funk inspired tune rather than some rocker like "Rocks Off" from EXILE. I think it's a great representation of GOATS HEAD SOUP.

thumbs up

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: February 26, 2020 23:19

It's possibly though the weakest opener of any Stones studio effort. Tried to love it from the get-go, but to this day fell a bit short.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: February 26, 2020 23:27

Quote
Maindefender
It's possibly though the weakest opener of any Stones studio effort.

They probably wanted to break the routine created by SF and EOMS : an "up" album-opener. By choosing "Mr. D" I guess they tried to link GHS to LIB : picking a slow atmospheric number to open the album.
Okay "Mr. D" is nowhere near as good as "Shelter". grinning smiley

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: TumblinDice76 ()
Date: February 26, 2020 23:29

Mainefender-Interesting question. Before it, openers were-Rocks Off, Brown Sugar, Gimme Shelter, Sympathy, Sing This All Together, LSTNT, Paint it Black, She Said Yeah, Mercy, Mercy, ENSTL, Around & Around, and Not Fade Away.

I used US releases. I'd say weakest is Sing this All Together, but Dancing with Mr. D is a close second.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: February 26, 2020 23:33

Quote
Maindefender
It's possibly though the weakest opener of any Stones studio effort. Tried to love it from the get-go, but to this day fell a bit short.

I can think of a few openers that do fall a bit short, from 1989 onwards.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: February 26, 2020 23:38

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Maindefender
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24FPS
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Sighunt
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TravelinMan
I feel like Exile is a 50’s album recorded in the early 70’s by a band in their twenties, while Goats Head is thoroughly a 70’s album. The clav is a quintessential 70’s keyboard.

I don’t consider Dancing With Mr. D a rocker, but a druggy, swampy, blues. Star, Heartbreaker, Silver Train, and the latter part of 100 Years Ago Rock much harder than Mr. D.

As much as I enjoy a lot of the tunes on Goats Head Soup, I always thought that Dancing with Mr D was one of the weakest openers of a Rolling Stone record. I sometimes wonder whether a different running order of songs would have elevated GHS status.


I think it was a miscalculation on their part. It sounded great on stage in '73. Then again, Angie was the only other cut that would have been a strong opener. They usually kicked off albums with a rocker, and there were only a handful to choose from on GHS, with Dancing With Mister D being closest to being a single. I think it's one of the things that make a lot of Stones fans consider this album uneven. Angie is simply head and shoulders above anything else on the album. Kind of like the Undercover album. Undercover of the Night simply blows away the rest of the album, although GHS, overall, was a much stronger work than Undercover.

Criss Cross or Silver Train could have made acceptable openers. CC would have been a more than adequate live song on the '73 tour than Mr. D.


Silver Train is kind of weak, a watered down All Down The Line. Dancing With Mr. D was fantastic live, in '73.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Date: February 27, 2020 02:09

Quote
Maindefender
It's possibly though the weakest opener of any Stones studio effort. Tried to love it from the get-go, but to this day fell a bit short.

I don't know..'Dance" wasn't all that great either.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: February 27, 2020 03:03

Quote
TumblinDice76
Mainefender-Interesting question. Before it, openers were-Rocks Off, Brown Sugar, Gimme Shelter, Sympathy, Sing This All Together, LSTNT, Paint it Black, She Said Yeah, Mercy, Mercy, ENSTL, Around & Around, and Not Fade Away.

I used US releases. I'd say weakest is Sing this All Together, but Dancing with Mr. D is a close second.

I love Mr D as an opening track - it certainly sets the tone for GHS, just as Gimme Shelter does for LIB. Love Is Strong works similarly, vibe wise. If You Can't Rock Me is great, very up - Hot Stuff seems to hint at 'This album was recorded after rolling many joints'. Miss You is a bit mysterious. Dance has a bit of curiosity to it with the layering of different tones. Obviously Start me Up... UOTN is a good opener, very interesting track with a lot going on in it. One Hit was OK. Sad Sad Sad was promising but the album falls short of the instant energy that the song offers. Flip The Switch is a fantastic opening track, as as Rough Justice. Obviously some bigger tracks/singles being LP openers creates a running dialog with greatness: SFTD, Gimme Shelter, Brown Sugar, Rocks Off, Miss You, Start Me Up.

That quoted order listed above made me laugh - I forgot about Sing This All Together. What a toss that was.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: February 27, 2020 03:04

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Send It To me
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GasLightStreet
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TIRED
Not sure if this has already been suggested before, but detailed and reliable recording infos can be found here:

https://aeppli.ch/tug.htm

Specifically for tracks recorded that were released on "Goats Head Soup":

https://aeppli.ch/Stones/TUG1970-1973Up.pdf

Rocky, I looked at this, which is fantastic, for 1979 about Think I'm Going Mad and it says Bobby Keys but one of them "may be Ron Wood" so apparently officially no one knows who played saxophone on Think I'm Going Mad.

Additionally to that, they show no studio work done in 1981 for TATTOO YOU, which is strange seeing that there was work done in 1981, especially the final lead vocals for Start Me Up.

I think all of "Neighbors" was done in '81

Well, it's a fact that no new recordings were done in 1981, just overdubs. Neighbours was recorded in 1979 for ER.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: February 27, 2020 04:35

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
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Maindefender
It's possibly though the weakest opener of any Stones studio effort. Tried to love it from the get-go, but to this day fell a bit short.

I don't know..'Dance" wasn't all that great either.

Yeah, I prefer Dance, especially like the Sucking in the 70’ edition..

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: lem motlow ()
Date: February 28, 2020 08:41

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DandelionPowderman
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lem motlow
Goats Head Soup is a masterpiece.
The album was recorded on a break between the 1972 tour and the 1973 tour, not exactly a downturn in the bands playing abilities.
The ignorance displayed in knocking a song like Angie to me is just unforgivable.
A beautiful collaboration between Mick and Keith that takes you back to Lady Jane,Blue turns to Grey and Wild Horses.
That guitar that almost talks - can you hear the music.. the heartfelt singing “where are all my friends, coming down again.,,wish I was out out in California.,,
Went out walking through the woods the other day..
Dancing with Death, silly fools thought the D was devil,good lord listen to the damn song.
Classic rockers like Starfckr and Silver Train.if they released this today you’d be drooling so much you’d be standing in a puddle.

It's not a masterpiece. However, the best songs on GHS is up there with their best stuff ever. As an album it's natural to compare GHS with SF. Both have several slow and rather dreamy pieces of music that bring colour and set the vibe for their respective albums.

When comparing with SF it's evident for me that the rockers on GHS are not in the same league as the ones on SF. That goes for some of the ballads as well.

Rockers:

Brown Sugar vs. Dancing With Mr. D
Sway vs. Heartbreaker
Can't You Hear Me Knocking vs. Silver Train
Bitch vs. Star Star

Ballads:

Wild Horses vs. Coming Down Again
I Got The Blues vs. Angie
Moonlight Mile vs. Winter

Strong album, but not up there with SF, which IS a masterpiece, imo.


Nice try but you ultimately failed by getting lazy and going for the nuclear option i.e. using one of the big four.
I could use Sticky Fingers and destroy Abbey Road.
If you had used one of the other Stones masterpieces-December’s Children,Some Girls, Tattoo You or Out of Our Heads you would’ve had to work a little harder but you might’ve made your point.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Date: February 28, 2020 09:45

Quote
lem motlow
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
lem motlow
Goats Head Soup is a masterpiece.
The album was recorded on a break between the 1972 tour and the 1973 tour, not exactly a downturn in the bands playing abilities.
The ignorance displayed in knocking a song like Angie to me is just unforgivable.
A beautiful collaboration between Mick and Keith that takes you back to Lady Jane,Blue turns to Grey and Wild Horses.
That guitar that almost talks - can you hear the music.. the heartfelt singing “where are all my friends, coming down again.,,wish I was out out in California.,,
Went out walking through the woods the other day..
Dancing with Death, silly fools thought the D was devil,good lord listen to the damn song.
Classic rockers like Starfckr and Silver Train.if they released this today you’d be drooling so much you’d be standing in a puddle.

It's not a masterpiece. However, the best songs on GHS is up there with their best stuff ever. As an album it's natural to compare GHS with SF. Both have several slow and rather dreamy pieces of music that bring colour and set the vibe for their respective albums.

When comparing with SF it's evident for me that the rockers on GHS are not in the same league as the ones on SF. That goes for some of the ballads as well.

Rockers:

Brown Sugar vs. Dancing With Mr. D
Sway vs. Heartbreaker
Can't You Hear Me Knocking vs. Silver Train
Bitch vs. Star Star

Ballads:

Wild Horses vs. Coming Down Again
I Got The Blues vs. Angie
Moonlight Mile vs. Winter

Strong album, but not up there with SF, which IS a masterpiece, imo.


Nice try but you ultimately failed by getting lazy and going for the nuclear option i.e. using one of the big four.
I could use Sticky Fingers and destroy Abbey Road.
If you had used one of the other Stones masterpieces-December’s Children,Some Girls, Tattoo You or Out of Our Heads you would’ve had to work a little harder but you might’ve made your point.

That's a good point, actually. But I wasn't lazy. Quite the opposite actually, as I really was looking for a valid musical comparison in their catalogue. And after giving it some thought I think SF is the closest we get, when we compare the music and the overall album vibe.

December's Children, Out Of Our Heads or Some Girls would have been wrong.

Tattoo You is more interesting, but the sequencing on that album makes the vibe very different, imo (with the quiet b-side etc.).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-28 09:46 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: February 28, 2020 09:55

If I may interject I'd like to say Sticky Fingers is in my opinion the bigger masterpiece. However I've always wondered why GHS is not more talked about because I too feel it's a masterpiece. Happy to hear it's getting some attention with a new release. Hope there are some exciting extras.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Date: February 28, 2020 10:29

Side A on GHS is excellent, imo. Dancing With Mr D might not be the best opener, but it's still very good (we gotta keep the right perspective here).

100 Years Ago, Coming Down Again, Heartbreaker and Angie are all ace.

Side B is a mixed bag for me. I enjoy Hide Your Love, but it's not much of a song. I really like Can You Hear The Music. It's psychedelic, brutal and hauntingly beautiful at the same time. It conveys emotions. It takes you on a ride. Now we're talking SF-quality.

There are passages in Winter that does that, too, but not at the same level.

It's great to hear some nice slide playing, but it doesn't save Silver Train, which I find the weakest track on GHS.

I heard live versions of Star Star before I finally heard the studio version for the first time when I bought GHS in the mid 80s. It always paled in comparison with the live takes, imo, although I do like the song.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: Swayed1967 ()
Date: February 28, 2020 10:40

Quote
frankotero
If I may interject I'd like to say Sticky Fingers is in my opinion the bigger masterpiece. However I've always wondered why GHS is not more talked about because I too feel it's a masterpiece. Happy to hear it's getting some attention with a new release. Hope there are some exciting extras.

Perhaps I’m quibbling but up to now I don’t recall anyone referring to BB, LIB, EOMS and SF as the big 4 ‘masterpieces.’ And for good reason – crediting bands with multiple masterpieces begins to get silly and increases the likelihood of getting into even sillier conversations with Lem. It’s the BIG FOUR Period.

Goats is not part of the BIG FOUR Period. However, if you love Goats and are unable to resist the urge to call it a masterpiece I’ll allow it on two conditions: 1. that you qualify it as a ‘minor masterpiece’ and 2. that you don’t start a silly thread about which Stones albums should be classified as ‘minor masterpieces.’

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: February 28, 2020 10:51

Quote
24FPS
Dancing With Mr. D was fantastic live, in '73.

Yeah and I'd like to know who slowed down the tempo of the song night after night... The very 1st live rendition in Vienna was quite fast but as the tour went on the song started to drag.
Methinks Mick wanted it fast but eventually as the tour went on Keef prevailed, as he considered the track would work better as a kinda-sluggish mid-tempo number.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Date: February 28, 2020 10:55

Quote
dcba
Quote
24FPS
Dancing With Mr. D was fantastic live, in '73.

Yeah and I'd like to know who slowed down the tempo of the song night after night... The very 1st live rendition in Vienna was quite fast but as the tour went on the song started to drag.
Methinks Mick wanted it fast but eventually as the tour went on Keef prevailed, as he considered the track would work better as a kinda-sluggish mid-tempo number.

You have the answer right there. Keith starts the tune.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: February 28, 2020 12:55

Yes I agree with myself... grinning smiley
Didn't Keef once complain Mick always wants to play the songs live too fast? Keef probbaly thinks that if you're too fast you have the rock but you miss the roll/the swing.
Can't say he's wrong if you watch a 1988 video of a Mick gig.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Date: February 28, 2020 13:49

Quote
dcba
Yes I agree with myself... grinning smiley
Didn't Keef once complain Mick always wants to play the songs live too fast? Keef probbaly thinks that if you're too fast you have the rock but you miss the roll/the swing.
Can't say he's wrong if you watch a 1988 video of a Mick gig.

He did forget that himself in 1982, though. The merck might have had something to do with it.

Love the extra solos before the third verse, btw grinning smiley





[www.youtube.com]

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: frankotero ()
Date: February 28, 2020 14:09

Swayed1967. I'm okay with your request. I'm not interested in rewriting history or pushing my own agenda. I do however love this album. After all I am a Taylorite.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Date: February 28, 2020 14:35

Quote
TravelinMan
I’m in the minority here, but I couldn’t see the album with a different opener. I love the song; it’s voodoo, grimy blues, rock, and Jamaican.

very good point. This is true: there really isn't another cut from the GHS sessions that would work as opener.
The thing about "Dancing w/ Mr D" is that it is one of those songs that is always better when you actually hear it. When it is playing I'm always "Man this is pretty good". I love that low keyboard down there; can't quite tell if it s a clavinet or electric piano.
It's the chorus itself that is a little lame.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Date: February 28, 2020 14:41

I love GHS, and we all know, that most of the criticism directed at this album comes from the fact that it arrived after the Big 5.
IMO it is the production and mastering that does the album no favors. Similar to IORR album. That mid 70's studio sound with too many baffles; careful engineering.
and Jamaica may not have been ready for a bigtime artist yet.

I wouldn't call it a masterpiece, simply because there are some weaker songs on the album.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: February 28, 2020 14:47

Quote
DandelionPowderman


He did forget that himself in 1982, though. The merck might have had something to do with it.

Love the extra solos before the third verse, btw grinning smiley





[www.youtube.com]

Or he led a petty revenge against Jagger...
I remember reading a Keef interview in a 1982 mag. He was in a bad gloomy mood (WW III was obviously slowly brewing) and he quipped : "ah Jagger... Nowadays onstage he can't even sing the 1st few numbers without being out of breath...".
I may overstretch things but in the back of my mind I sometimes think the super-fast pace of the 82 gigs was a way for Keef to put Mick in a situation of disconfort.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 28, 2020 15:24

I never cared much for "Mr. D" until I heard the live version on Honk.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: February 28, 2020 15:43

Quote
Elmo Lewis
I never cared much for "Mr. D" until I heard the live version on Honk.
I would say that Honk version vs. Brussels 73 is like Real Oviedo vs. FC Barcelona winking smiley.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: February 28, 2020 15:44

Quote
Elmo Lewis
I never cared much for "Mr. D" until I heard the live version on Honk.

When I saw that was gonna be on HONK I was skeptical. Listening to it on YouTube provided a delightful surprise - they played it fantastically and, compared to 1973, pretty damn good, since those performances were simply awesome.

It's the only track from HONK that I paid for.

Re: Goats Head Soup Reissue
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: February 28, 2020 15:48

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
dcba
Yes I agree with myself... grinning smiley
Didn't Keef once complain Mick always wants to play the songs live too fast? Keef probbaly thinks that if you're too fast you have the rock but you miss the roll/the swing.
Can't say he's wrong if you watch a 1988 video of a Mick gig.

He did forget that himself in 1982, though. The merck might have had something to do with it.

Love the extra solos before the third verse, btw grinning smiley





[www.youtube.com]

Wow Jagger drinking JD on stage in '82.......interesting

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