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His Majesty
Brian Jones and Bent Rej’s daughter Cathrine Rej.

Brian is listening to side 2 of The Kinks debut album. Here is a playlist of the album: [youtube.com]



Photo: Bent Rej.

Thanks to Stuart Penney and Grant McPhee for helping to identify the record.

cool

judging from the photo it looks like he's listing to revenge

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 07:59 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
Brian Jones - rhythm guitar - Paint It Black.



Here is a live version from Brian's last live performance in USA. Note he plays the rhythm guitar, utilising much of the same rhythmic techniques he played on the studio recording.

The Rolling Stones - Paint It Black (live):



Recorded Live at the Honolulu International Center, Hawaii, USA - July 28th, 1966.

Very powerful performance. Thanks for sharing.

[youtu.be]

You surely know about this particular recording. It's one of the rare times we are able to clearly hear Brian on guitar, live-ish.
Brian, and Mick Taylor are remembered for other sides of their musicianship, but both of them IMO are phenomenal rhythm guitarists.

His Majesty - qq: is there any slight remote possibility that Brian played the slide part in Love in Vain? I was listening to the isolated slide part last night and I thought...that sounds unlike any slide part KR has played, or even played on Let It Bleed. I know in May 1968 recording sessions at Olympic, Love In Vain was played (with possibly early recorded takes).

-swiss

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Palace Revolution 2000
[youtu.be]

You surely know about this particular recording. It's one of the rare times we are able to clearly hear Brian on guitar, live-ish.
Brian, and Mick Taylor are remembered for other sides of their musicianship, but both of them IMO are phenomenal rhythm guitarists.

How fabulous a musician Brian was, on guitar he was in my opinion really mediocre, bordering on amateurish level. Only his intro guitar to The Last Time is interesting from a guitar players point of view, but just about anything else is basic schoolbook guitar.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-08 10:43 by Mathijs.

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swiss
His Majesty - qq: is there any slight remote possibility that Brian played the slide part in Love in Vain? I was listening to the isolated slide part last night and I thought...that sounds unlike any slide part KR has played, or even played on Let It Bleed. I know in May 1968 recording sessions at Olympic, Love In Vain was played (with possibly early recorded takes).

-swiss

The slide is clearly Keith. It's totally his style, that of a non-slide player. That's why it is so interesting, and also the reason he abandoned it so quickly. It's fairly similar to his slide playing on Till the Next Goodbye.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-08 10:43 by Mathijs.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:00 by His Majesty.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:00 by His Majesty.

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swiss
His Majesty - qq: is there any slight remote possibility that Brian played the slide part in Love in Vain? I was listening to the isolated slide part last night and I thought...that sounds unlike any slide part KR has played, or even played on Let It Bleed. I know in May 1968 recording sessions at Olympic, Love In Vain was played (with possibly early recorded takes).

-swiss

The easiest way to distinguish Brian's and Keith's slide playing is to listen for vibrato, which is totally absent in Keith's playing.

Love In Vain has soul and style, but lacks vibrato.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-08 13:23 by DandelionPowderman.

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His Majesty


When he was inspired and/or in the mood, Brian could be great on guitar and play interesting and effective parts that helped make things come alive. There are times and recordings where he seems to not be in the mood and gives kinda minimal effort type parts and playing.

All those examples you put here are what I find extremely minimalistic guitar playing. Sure it suits the track, but from a guitar players point of view, from a technical skill point of view, it is very, very basic playing. Simple straight ahead chord picking, or straight ahead 12 bar boogie.

I find Brian truly one of the all-time greats on harp, and he as incredible in coming up with parts on whatever instrument he could find, especially the Mellotron.

But guitar...Of all his guitar playing he was great to me on The Last Time, he did a great slide solo on I Wanna Be Your Man, Little Red Rooster is fantastic, then there's No Expectations, and what else? His slide playing on Still a Fool is haunting and great, but that's really all there is to me.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-08 15:10 by Mathijs.

His guitar playing on Mona deserves a mention, imo.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:00 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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Mathijs

Sure it suits the track...

Ta-da.

You don't have to tell us the same thing over and over and over and turn every Brian Jones thread in to some debate about his technical level on guitar. In this instance bumping off interesting isolations etc that I have spent a lot of time on that don't just tell us stuff about Brian, but, also Keith etc.

Most of the time Brian's playing suites the track and gives Keith space to do his thing, or merges with Keith's playing for a nice unified sound. To many people the Stones are amateur sounding and not technically challenging at all. What use would come from having that said in every Stones thread?

The use of saying it here is the very fruits of your own work. I think the isolations, and you playing his parts on various instruments, is an absolutely great job of helping understand Brian as a musician. Thank you for that.

When I said it in previous threads, without the isolations, I was quite alone in my assessment of Brian's guitar skills. Now with the isolations I feel that I am more supported in my opinion of Brian's guitar skills. And on a message board, where Brian's work is often praised as being close to magic, I think it is a good counter to share different opinions as well.

Mathijs

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:01 by His Majesty.

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DandelionPowderman
The easiest way to distinguish Brian's and Keith's slide playing is to listen for vibrato, which is totally absent in Keith's playing.

Love In Vain has soul and style, but lacks vibrato.

Great point, Dandy!

And His Majesty - yes, I hadn't thought of You Got the Silver similarities.

Thanks both.
-swiss

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swiss

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DandelionPowderman
The easiest way to distinguish Brian's and Keith's slide playing is to listen for vibrato, which is totally absent in Keith's playing.

Love In Vain has soul and style, but lacks vibrato.

Great point, Dandy!

And His Majesty - yes, I hadn't thought of You Got the Silver similarities.

Thanks both.
-swiss

Is there vibrato on Jigsaw Puzzle and Salt if the Earth?What about Till The Next Good bye ,Casino Boogie , Ventilator Blues?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-09 02:37 by Taylor1.

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Taylor1

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swiss

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DandelionPowderman
The easiest way to distinguish Brian's and Keith's slide playing is to listen for vibrato, which is totally absent in Keith's playing.

Love In Vain has soul and style, but lacks vibrato.

Great point, Dandy!

And His Majesty - yes, I hadn't thought of You Got the Silver similarities.

Thanks both.
-swiss

Is there vibrato on Jigsaw Puzzle and Salt if the Earth?What about Till The Next Good bye ,Casino Boogie , Ventilator Blues?

Only on the non-slide solo on CB and the slide solo on VB (both played by Taylor).

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His Majesty
Parts you previously thought were by Keith and never criticised suddenly become mediocre when you find out it's played by Brian.

You really have to remind me on this, as far as I remember there are no parts played by Brian that I thought was Keith. If I recall well, I only doubted the intro to The Last Time, as this is unlike Brian in my opinion.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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His Majesty
Parts you previously thought were by Keith and never criticised suddenly become mediocre when you find out it's played by Brian.

You really have to remind me on this, as far as I remember there are no parts played by Brian that I thought was Keith. If I recall well, I only doubted the intro to The Last Time, as this is unlike Brian in my opinion.

Mathijs

This thread and your web site are really good His Majesty. Thank you for all hard work.
Mathijs.......anyone who could doubt who played the intro to The Last Time is showing their age imho because if you were there in the 60s and saw the Stones live you would know it was Brian through and through and Keith was rhythm plus the solo lead in the middle. I am sorry you missed that, they were great concerts where the Stones were right in your face.

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Kingbeebuzz
Mathijs.......anyone who could doubt who played the intro to The Last Time is showing their age imho because if you were there in the 60s and saw the Stones live you would know it was Brian through and through and Keith was rhythm plus the solo lead in the middle. I am sorry you missed that, they were great concerts where the Stones were right in your face.

Without repeating myself (not allowed) -the discussion was much more on the fact that the part, and especially its sound, are very much unlike anything Brian has ever played before or after. In the discussion I also mentioned the main riff to Bitch -played by Taylor, but on the record sounding so completely different than Taylor's style, than what he played before and after. It's not so much I don't believe it's Brian and Taylor, but it's amazing to me.

Mathijs

With respect to Brian’s guitar playing, I’m not knowledgeable about guitar playing like some on this site.But to my ears he was a really good rhythm guitarist.His sense of rhythm was great.Maybe had he not died he might have gotten back to playing guitar .Maybe he would have gotten better. Look at George Harrison .On the early Beatles songs like Please Please Me and Hard Days Night.he played really simple guitar , but it was great.Later on Abbey Road and Let it Be he played more complex guitar .When Brian was playing guitar in the early 1960s none of the bands had virtuoso players

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Kingbeebuzz

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Mathijs

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His Majesty
Parts you previously thought were by Keith and never criticised suddenly become mediocre when you find out it's played by Brian.

You really have to remind me on this, as far as I remember there are no parts played by Brian that I thought was Keith. If I recall well, I only doubted the intro to The Last Time, as this is unlike Brian in my opinion.

Mathijs

This thread and your web site are really good His Majesty. Thank you for all hard work.
Mathijs.......anyone who could doubt who played the intro to The Last Time is showing their age imho because if you were there in the 60s and saw the Stones live you would know it was Brian through and through and Keith was rhythm plus the solo lead in the middle. I am sorry you missed that, they were great concerts where the Stones were right in your face.

I got to know Mathijs when I organized the 40th Anniversary of the (unfinished) 1964 Rolling Stones concert in the Kurhaus. He and his fellow Flip The Switch mates were obviously young guys (compared we me anyway), but on my request I asked them to start off with the five songs the Stones played on that memorable day in 1964. Certainly not difficult songs, but giving those songs the deep Stones feeling, they did very well! And Mathijs was on lead guitar (can't remember you did Keith riffs, Brian riffs or both )

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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Kingbeebuzz

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Mathijs

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His Majesty
Parts you previously thought were by Keith and never criticised suddenly become mediocre when you find out it's played by Brian.

You really have to remind me on this, as far as I remember there are no parts played by Brian that I thought was Keith. If I recall well, I only doubted the intro to The Last Time, as this is unlike Brian in my opinion.

Mathijs

This thread and your web site are really good His Majesty. Thank you for all hard work.
Mathijs.......anyone who could doubt who played the intro to The Last Time is showing their age imho because if you were there in the 60s and saw the Stones live you would know it was Brian through and through and Keith was rhythm plus the solo lead in the middle. I am sorry you missed that, they were great concerts where the Stones were right in your face.

I got to know Mathijs when I organized the 40th Anniversary of the (unfinished) 1964 Rolling Stones concert in the Kurhaus. He and his fellow Flip The Switch mates were obviously young guys (compared we me anyway), but on my request I asked them to start off with the five songs the Stones played on that memorable day in 1964. Certainly not difficult songs, but giving those songs the deep Stones feeling, they did very well! Trust me, I chose FTS, because they were imho the best Dutch Stones coverband and I had high expectations. And Mathijs was on lead guitar (can't remember you did Keith riffs, Brian riffs or both ). Off course The Last Time was not among those five songs, but, if it would, I am sure they would have found out through analysis, which part was Brian and which part was Keith.
Having said that, off course they were too young to know how those early day Stones fans felt the fibes they grew up with of those early (Brian Jones era) Stones songs.
It was our daily breakfast
I could still say "who cares who did what" (because that's how we felt) but I enjoy your joined analysis efforts and I still am pleased with HM's thread!



I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

I've known for decades that the Stones were a bar band made good. They make no attempt to hide that fact. It's the chemistry and feel they bring when they're at their best that makes all the difference. Mathijs and Doxa and Bard (to name three) consistently write posts that I find absolutely fascinating and learn a great deal from. It doesn't matter if I don't agree 100% of the time, it's still enlightening. Terry's delving into roots and exotic sounds is the side of him that far outweighs his incorrigible humor. His peerless scans of photos and articles is also invaluable. His Majesty's thread is my favorite on the board. It's a true well of knowledge and pays dividends when you listen to the material again. Paul Spendel's investigations into Brian's life, right or wrong, make fascinating reading. Bjornulf gives us a site like no other. The cross-section of characters from all over the globe make for an essential supplement to the music we come back to day after day.

Yes, I agree that on many of these tracks mentioned Brian's playing is very basic. But it is right for that track. And overall there is magic. I think for a band to bring magic, every ingredient has to be part of it.
We can say that DJ is a very, very good bass player. But IMO Bill Wyman brought magic to Stones tracks within their chemistry. Which I do not get from DJ.

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Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-03 08:01 by His Majesty.

Keep up your superb work, His Majesty!
Many of us here love it.

Mathijs , What is your opinion of George Harrison’s guitar playing on the early Beatles songs, 1963-1965? Like Hard Days Night or She Loves You in terms of simplicity or level of technical prowess.To me as a non musician they are great and perfectly fit the song , but deceptively,sound pretty easy to play .