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It means your anti-virus software is working. Or, if the room suddenly got very cold and the lights flickered...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-31 05:19 by The Sicilian.
So, with only indirect or third party information about this occurrence, you reject the notion that racism played a part in this tragedy ?
No it doesnt. Seems he was high on meth, got into a fight with the HA (a bunch of sociopaths) and decided to pull a gun at one of the HA. The HA stabbed him to death. Why on earth did he carry a revolver in the first place? He shouldve just ignored the disgusting Hells Angels.
This is close to the truth, but it would be more accurate to say that he attempted to defend himself. It is so ludicrous that Passaro was acquitted of murder with a claim of "self defense". When is it that Hunter attacked anyone ? He was set upon by a pack of jackals who lied for each other (why is it that no other Angel was charged with say assault and battery, aggravated assault or mayhem) and judged "not guilty" by a dozen frightened citizens.
He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.
I would think it a might difficult to "ignore" somebody and some of their friends who were harassing and assaulting you, wouldn't you ?
None of them were being stabbed either
Existing possibility that some of these pro-angel folk are simply RW gun lovers...
Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.
That's how it appears in the film for sure.
I've always seen it that way but the witness who sounds credible enough said that he was stabbed first, then took the gun out and was stabbed more times.
He also said he thinks he was possibly stabbed by 2 people.
When Hunter first appears in the film he is stumbling trying to get steady on his feet.
It looks like there's someone he's breaking free from on the left side of the screen which is very hard to see, but it's there for a very brief moment.
It could be that he had been stabbed already by a different angel and that wasn't captured on the film.
It's a shame there aren't more witness statements to see if that guys recollection had any validity.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-31 16:43 by mikehat.
Terraplane looks to me as a lonely person, who just wants some conversation. He probably never watched the Gimme Shelter documentary, so comes up with pointless remarks. Other option is that his/her eyesight is not up to what it should be and then one only should feel sorry for terraplane.
No offense though
If the Angels were going against the guy with the gun then wouldn't they be LW?? Typical isn't it. Kevin got nothing left so he get's crude and Curt saying something completely opposite to inject politics into it. Last but not least, stanlove will be on soon to fight the fight for the right.
Face it guys, you don't give a crap about any of this. Only politics. Go finish this up on the FOX and MSNBC forums.
Unless Hunter had gotten into a fight with somebody else. Meth and a gun is quite a combo. We'll never know. Yes, hiring Hells Angels was a bad idea.
I am neither lonely, starved for conversation, nor is my eyesight poor. I have seen the Gimme Shelter movie. My remark was simply that Hunter was likely acting in self-defense (based on the eyewitness account that somebody else posted above). Try to keep up.
Not really. Everybody else tried to ignore the Hells Angels despite their horrible beatings with pool sticks etc. had they picked a fight with me I'd just move away from those sociopaths.
No but he was stabbed after he pulled the gun. Others were beaten but none of them aimed guns at anybody.
Or before AND after, as the witness claims..
Actually my name isn’t Kevin. True I don’t really give a crap about 95% of what’s been typed here. I just dispute the OP and his suggestion that whoever killed Hunter is a hero. But I have found some of the “good ole boy” sentiments expressed within this thread rather disturbing.
And I wasn’t seeking to be crude. Just suggesting that some here actually get their rocks off watching the violence perpetrated by the angels in Gimme Shelter.
Why do you not see how illogical your argument is? Again you are actually doing what I have been talking about. Your argument is that if we don't have proof that it was racial or not then it has to be considered racism. That is ridiculous. Your argument actually sets up the theory that anything that happened to any black person anywhere in 1969 had to happen to them because of the color of their skin. You honestly don't see how crazy that argument is and probably don't even realize you are making that argument.
The only rational opinion is nobody knows if it was racially motivated or not. When all evidence is looked at a better case can be made that it was not. I already explained why that is and my logic is spotless. Look back. You rebuted nothing I said about that,
Have you had much experience with thugs or bullies ?
You know, the kind who will pursue those who shrink away in fear
It has been my observation in life that this batch (Hell's Angels) gets off on torment and dominates by way of physical violence.
These "Angels" are no one's friend or savior.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-31 18:13 by curt.
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Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
The Sicilian
()
Date: March 31, 2018 05:15
Quote
stanloveQuote
georgie48
As a non-American I visited quite some Rolling Stones concerts in the USA. Why would anyone (read: anyone) want to take a gun along to a concert? Even an American? To me it is nothing more than "asking for trouble". Hunter not just "only" took a gun along, he even pulled it! That is asking for trouble. Heroes, murderers, it doesn't matter. Hunter took a gun along and pulled it. Result: he died. Stupid!
I am pretty sure that he left the gun in the car and then went and got it when he saw all the trouble that was going on. Personally I would have moved back when I saw the Angles acting like that but he decided to do something else.
When I got on I had a warning of a hack attempt. Does anyone know what that means.
It means your anti-virus software is working. Or, if the room suddenly got very cold and the lights flickered...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-31 05:19 by The Sicilian.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
The Sicilian
()
Date: March 31, 2018 05:16
Maybe it's facebook.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-31 05:18 by The Sicilian.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-31 05:18 by The Sicilian.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
curt
()
Date: March 31, 2018 05:59
Quote
The SicilianQuote
curtQuote
The SicilianQuote
curtQuote
The Sicilian
A hypothetical situation:
So if a bystander, doorman, fan or anyone nearby had witnessed Mark David Chapman pulling out a gun and pointing it towards John Lennon, and that person grabs Chapman's arm with the gun before he can fire it and attacks him with a knife, is he a murderer or is he a hero because he just saved Lennon's life? Of course we all know the opposite happened and Lennon was murdered. But what if...
A few pages back I had asked you three questions:
1. Are you an American ?
2. Were you at the Altamont gig ?
3. Are you at all acquainted with any of the Hell's Angels chapters ?
Perhaps you missed these questions earlier.
I'm American, most everyone knows that, I was not at Altamont and I know of a couple chapters but have no affiliations with anyone.
Thank for your answers to my questions. Your response is informative as regards your understanding of what it is that occurred that day. Would you agree with me that your viewpoint is based on seeing the movie Gimmee Shelter ?
Actually, I wouldn't agree entirely with that, I have seen it, but my opinion is more based more on articles read, studying pictures, video clips, comments of others. Unless you were there in front, everything is second hand. I wasn't in Ford's Theatre either but I'm quite sure John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln and jumped off the balcony as he made his escape.
So, with only indirect or third party information about this occurrence, you reject the notion that racism played a part in this tragedy ?
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: March 31, 2018 07:14
[www.rollingstone.com]
"I didn't know his name or anything, but he was standing along side of me. You know, we were both watching Mick Jagger, and a Hell's Angel, the fat one. I don't know his name or anything, he reached over — he didn't like us being so close or something, you know, we were seeing Mick Jagger too well, or something. He was just being uptight. He reached over and grabbed the guy beside me by the ear and hair, and yanked on it, thinking it was funny, you know, kind of laughing. And so, this guy shook loose; he yanked away from him.
Now this guy that you're talking about, is this the black guy that got killed?
Yeah, right. He shook loose, and the Hell's Angel hit him in the mouth and he fell back into the crowd and he jumped off stage and jumped at him. And he tried to scramble, you know, through the crowd, to run from the Hell's Angel, and four other Hell's Angels jumped on him. They started mugging him and.
This is when they claim he had the gun?
No, no, he didn't pull out the gun yet. See, and they started, they were mugging him, and then he started running . . . and he was running straight into the crowd, you know, pushing people away, you know, to run from the Hell's Angels.
What was this guy's condition? Had he been smoking, had he been drinking, or do you know?
He was really straight, he was really . . . Feeling really weird about being pushed around and stuff, but he was really pretty straight.
When the cat started grabbing him, what did he say? What did this black guy say?
He just gave him a weird look, kind of a mean look, and yanked away. He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back.
What kind of knife?
I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know . . . and . . .
Could you tell what kind of a gun?
It was a long . . . long barrel, really long. Looked like a six shooter or something . . . I've never seen . . . it was really . . . like the barrel was about six inches or so . . .
Like a service revolver or something?
Yeah . . . it was really a fancy gun . . . really shiny . . . He had it in the air, and he was still running, and people were telling him — I remember this chick screaming "Don't shoot anyone." And he was too scared to shoot because he could have shot anyone in the crowd or anything. So he didn't shoot. And one of the Hell's Angels grabbed the gun from him . . . and then stabbed him again in the back.
They grabbed the gun from him, and then stabbed him again in the back?
Yeah, yeah.
What did the cat who stabbed him look like?
I think there was two people that stabbed him. One had his hair straight. It was straight and thick, and it was straight back, combed straight back. The front of his . . . you know . . . he combed it back so much that the front of his head was kind of bald . . . getting thin. I know what he looks like but, I can't describe him.
But you'd know him if you saw him, right?
Yeah, yeah. I've seen him before.
Would you be willing to testify?
No. I don't want to get killed.
They hit him . . . I couldn't tell whether it was a knife or not . . . but on the side of the head. And then he kind of stumbled and he fell down on his knees. He came running toward me. I grabbed onto the scaffold, held onto the scaffold, you know, and then he came running kind of toward me and then he fell down on his knees, and then the Hell's Angel, the same one I was talking about, grabbed onto both of his shoulders and started kicking him in the face about five times or so and then he fell down on his face, you know. He let go and he fell down on his face. And then one of them kicked him on the side and he rolled over, and he muttered some words. He said "I wasn't going to shoot you." That was the last words he muttered.
How close were you to all of this?
About three feet away.
You kept right up with them. You could have gotten hurt.
I just stayed as close . . . like, I wanted to jump into it but I couldn't so I stayed close so that as soon as they were done mugging him I could help him.
That's a real question there: why 300,000 – well 299,900 – people would allow themselves to be dominated by a hundred Angels?
Yeah, well I couldn't see it either. If some other people had jumped in I would have jumped in. But nobody jumped in
and after he said "I wasn't going to shoot you," one of the Hell's Angels said, "Why did you have a gun?"
He didn't give him time to say anything. He grabbed one of those garbage cans, you know, one of those cardboard garbage cans with the metal rimming, and he smashed him over the head with it, and then he kicked the garbage can out of the way and started kicking his head in.
Five of them started kicking his head in. Kicked him all over the place. And then the guy that started the whole thing, the fat guy, stood on his head for a minute or so and then walked off.
And then the ones I was talking about, described to you, he wouldn't let us touch him for about two or three minutes. Like, "Don't touch him, he's going to die anyway, let him die, he's going to die."
So what did everybody do? Did anybody say anything?
Chicks were just screaming. It was all confusion. I jumped down anyway to grab him and some other dude jumped down and grabbed him, and then the Hell's Angel just stood over him for a little bit and then walked away. We turned him over and ripped off his shirt.
You turned him over so he was face up?
No, so he was face down.
So you could see his back?
We rubbed his back up and down to get the blood off so we could see, and there was a big hole on his spine and a big hole on the side and there was a big hole in his temple. A big open slice. You could see all the way in. You could see inside. You could see at least an inch down and stuff, you know. And then there was a big hole right where there's no ribs on his back...and then the side of his head was just sliced open . . . you couldn't see so far in . . . it was bleeding quite heavy . . . but his back wasn't bleeding too heavy after that . . . there . . . all of us were drenched in blood.
Did you stick with him after that?
Yeah. I picked up his legs and someone else . . . this guy said he was a doctor or something . . . I don't know who he was . . . he picked up his arms and he said, "Got to get him some help because he's going to die. We've got 15 or 20 minutes, if we can get him some help . . ." And so we tried to carry him on the stage. Tell Mick Jagger to stop playing so we could get him on the stage and get some attention for him...."
______________________
well it turns into Blamestock if you ask the few in the circle pointing at each other. imo it's total propaganda that the band was in danger of being shot at by this young man;
i think that's equivocation to avoid any degree of liability or related responsibility for the obvious technical mismanagement;
there was no time for planning or set-up or even rough general organization;
they jumped sites last minute cause Sears track mgmt. wanted a piece of the movie rights negotiated and etc...
i don't know the exact specifics of those dynamics of course.
but just attract hundreds of thousands to a dry open desert type enviornment; not exactly the northeast Garden of Eden; rain mud and all; it was forest
trees ponds living things and even when the gates were trashed, there were still designated areas for medical and other amenities and etc...
.....but Cali pulls over amazing shows in the desert with Responsibility, professionalism, planning and safety....this was mismanagement;
and it put the band in direct danger; there's no way i can blame
any of the band members; there were in the thick of it and the midst
of intense touring and recording....i think Bill Graham went overboard
going for Jags personally; but Bill has an artistic temperment and felt responsiblity for the kids at his shows; i actually felt this vibe he created many times....
i think that technically as a concert producer, Graham was offended and pissed....but a very solid and important promoter of incredible bands.....including the Stones of course, down the road from these events;
some dozen years after Altamont.
Woodstock had a degree of community particpation and negotiation and very professional
secure staging and etc...
was what Monck pulled off in August upstate NY,
so Bill Graham was livid at him; tho he respected him and knew the guy KNEW his skillset at a top level and felt let down; same with jags....and etc...ad infinitum....
Bill claimed at the time that even without hiring Angels to participate; there was bound to be serious trouble; that was His take on it.
"I didn't know his name or anything, but he was standing along side of me. You know, we were both watching Mick Jagger, and a Hell's Angel, the fat one. I don't know his name or anything, he reached over — he didn't like us being so close or something, you know, we were seeing Mick Jagger too well, or something. He was just being uptight. He reached over and grabbed the guy beside me by the ear and hair, and yanked on it, thinking it was funny, you know, kind of laughing. And so, this guy shook loose; he yanked away from him.
Now this guy that you're talking about, is this the black guy that got killed?
Yeah, right. He shook loose, and the Hell's Angel hit him in the mouth and he fell back into the crowd and he jumped off stage and jumped at him. And he tried to scramble, you know, through the crowd, to run from the Hell's Angel, and four other Hell's Angels jumped on him. They started mugging him and.
This is when they claim he had the gun?
No, no, he didn't pull out the gun yet. See, and they started, they were mugging him, and then he started running . . . and he was running straight into the crowd, you know, pushing people away, you know, to run from the Hell's Angels.
What was this guy's condition? Had he been smoking, had he been drinking, or do you know?
He was really straight, he was really . . . Feeling really weird about being pushed around and stuff, but he was really pretty straight.
When the cat started grabbing him, what did he say? What did this black guy say?
He just gave him a weird look, kind of a mean look, and yanked away. He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back.
What kind of knife?
I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know . . . and . . .
Could you tell what kind of a gun?
It was a long . . . long barrel, really long. Looked like a six shooter or something . . . I've never seen . . . it was really . . . like the barrel was about six inches or so . . .
Like a service revolver or something?
Yeah . . . it was really a fancy gun . . . really shiny . . . He had it in the air, and he was still running, and people were telling him — I remember this chick screaming "Don't shoot anyone." And he was too scared to shoot because he could have shot anyone in the crowd or anything. So he didn't shoot. And one of the Hell's Angels grabbed the gun from him . . . and then stabbed him again in the back.
They grabbed the gun from him, and then stabbed him again in the back?
Yeah, yeah.
What did the cat who stabbed him look like?
I think there was two people that stabbed him. One had his hair straight. It was straight and thick, and it was straight back, combed straight back. The front of his . . . you know . . . he combed it back so much that the front of his head was kind of bald . . . getting thin. I know what he looks like but, I can't describe him.
But you'd know him if you saw him, right?
Yeah, yeah. I've seen him before.
Would you be willing to testify?
No. I don't want to get killed.
They hit him . . . I couldn't tell whether it was a knife or not . . . but on the side of the head. And then he kind of stumbled and he fell down on his knees. He came running toward me. I grabbed onto the scaffold, held onto the scaffold, you know, and then he came running kind of toward me and then he fell down on his knees, and then the Hell's Angel, the same one I was talking about, grabbed onto both of his shoulders and started kicking him in the face about five times or so and then he fell down on his face, you know. He let go and he fell down on his face. And then one of them kicked him on the side and he rolled over, and he muttered some words. He said "I wasn't going to shoot you." That was the last words he muttered.
How close were you to all of this?
About three feet away.
You kept right up with them. You could have gotten hurt.
I just stayed as close . . . like, I wanted to jump into it but I couldn't so I stayed close so that as soon as they were done mugging him I could help him.
That's a real question there: why 300,000 – well 299,900 – people would allow themselves to be dominated by a hundred Angels?
Yeah, well I couldn't see it either. If some other people had jumped in I would have jumped in. But nobody jumped in
and after he said "I wasn't going to shoot you," one of the Hell's Angels said, "Why did you have a gun?"
He didn't give him time to say anything. He grabbed one of those garbage cans, you know, one of those cardboard garbage cans with the metal rimming, and he smashed him over the head with it, and then he kicked the garbage can out of the way and started kicking his head in.
Five of them started kicking his head in. Kicked him all over the place. And then the guy that started the whole thing, the fat guy, stood on his head for a minute or so and then walked off.
And then the ones I was talking about, described to you, he wouldn't let us touch him for about two or three minutes. Like, "Don't touch him, he's going to die anyway, let him die, he's going to die."
So what did everybody do? Did anybody say anything?
Chicks were just screaming. It was all confusion. I jumped down anyway to grab him and some other dude jumped down and grabbed him, and then the Hell's Angel just stood over him for a little bit and then walked away. We turned him over and ripped off his shirt.
You turned him over so he was face up?
No, so he was face down.
So you could see his back?
We rubbed his back up and down to get the blood off so we could see, and there was a big hole on his spine and a big hole on the side and there was a big hole in his temple. A big open slice. You could see all the way in. You could see inside. You could see at least an inch down and stuff, you know. And then there was a big hole right where there's no ribs on his back...and then the side of his head was just sliced open . . . you couldn't see so far in . . . it was bleeding quite heavy . . . but his back wasn't bleeding too heavy after that . . . there . . . all of us were drenched in blood.
Did you stick with him after that?
Yeah. I picked up his legs and someone else . . . this guy said he was a doctor or something . . . I don't know who he was . . . he picked up his arms and he said, "Got to get him some help because he's going to die. We've got 15 or 20 minutes, if we can get him some help . . ." And so we tried to carry him on the stage. Tell Mick Jagger to stop playing so we could get him on the stage and get some attention for him...."
______________________
well it turns into Blamestock if you ask the few in the circle pointing at each other. imo it's total propaganda that the band was in danger of being shot at by this young man;
i think that's equivocation to avoid any degree of liability or related responsibility for the obvious technical mismanagement;
there was no time for planning or set-up or even rough general organization;
they jumped sites last minute cause Sears track mgmt. wanted a piece of the movie rights negotiated and etc...
i don't know the exact specifics of those dynamics of course.
but just attract hundreds of thousands to a dry open desert type enviornment; not exactly the northeast Garden of Eden; rain mud and all; it was forest
trees ponds living things and even when the gates were trashed, there were still designated areas for medical and other amenities and etc...
.....but Cali pulls over amazing shows in the desert with Responsibility, professionalism, planning and safety....this was mismanagement;
and it put the band in direct danger; there's no way i can blame
any of the band members; there were in the thick of it and the midst
of intense touring and recording....i think Bill Graham went overboard
going for Jags personally; but Bill has an artistic temperment and felt responsiblity for the kids at his shows; i actually felt this vibe he created many times....
i think that technically as a concert producer, Graham was offended and pissed....but a very solid and important promoter of incredible bands.....including the Stones of course, down the road from these events;
some dozen years after Altamont.
Woodstock had a degree of community particpation and negotiation and very professional
secure staging and etc...
was what Monck pulled off in August upstate NY,
so Bill Graham was livid at him; tho he respected him and knew the guy KNEW his skillset at a top level and felt let down; same with jags....and etc...ad infinitum....
Bill claimed at the time that even without hiring Angels to participate; there was bound to be serious trouble; that was His take on it.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: March 31, 2018 10:13
Quote
stanloveQuote
georgie48
As a non-American I visited quite some Rolling Stones concerts in the USA. Why would anyone (read: anyone) want to take a gun along to a concert? Even an American? To me it is nothing more than "asking for trouble". Hunter not just "only" took a gun along, he even pulled it! That is asking for trouble. Heroes, murderers, it doesn't matter. Hunter took a gun along and pulled it. Result: he died. Stupid!
I am pretty sure that he left the gun in the car and then went and got it when he saw all the trouble that was going on. Personally I would have moved back when I saw the Angles acting like that but he decided to do something else.
I like your sence of humor, stanlove! "... and then went and got it ...". I just try to imagine that. Some 400.000 guests and and a line of parked cars for many, many kilometers. By the time he would be back in front of the stage, the whole show would have been finished ages ago .. and he would still be alive
When I got on I had a warning of a hack attempt. Does anyone know what that means.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
terraplane
()
Date: March 31, 2018 11:12
Seems more like Hunter Meredith was acting in self defense
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: March 31, 2018 11:28
Quote
terraplane
Seems more like Hunter Meredith was acting in self defense
No it doesnt. Seems he was high on meth, got into a fight with the HA (a bunch of sociopaths) and decided to pull a gun at one of the HA. The HA stabbed him to death. Why on earth did he carry a revolver in the first place? He shouldve just ignored the disgusting Hells Angels.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
terraplane
()
Date: March 31, 2018 11:47
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know
Sounds like self defense to me.
Sounds like self defense to me.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
curt
()
Date: March 31, 2018 11:52
Quote
terraplane
Seems more like Hunter Meredith was acting in self defense
This is close to the truth, but it would be more accurate to say that he attempted to defend himself. It is so ludicrous that Passaro was acquitted of murder with a claim of "self defense". When is it that Hunter attacked anyone ? He was set upon by a pack of jackals who lied for each other (why is it that no other Angel was charged with say assault and battery, aggravated assault or mayhem) and judged "not guilty" by a dozen frightened citizens.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: March 31, 2018 12:39
i personally believe this witness has credibility;
it's sort of interesting to observe; not that I'm seeking agreement necessarily;
but sometimes the myth or someone's preconceived notions; or unconcious predjudice just blanks out some of my even most intelligent friends. Certain subject matter is seemingly mutually agreed upon in a circle of friends and acquaintances; and it wouldn't matter if direct physical evidence of something happened right in front of them; they seem almost programmed; be it they are exopsed to endless repetition; almost hypnotic adverts or campaigns or whatever....
to me it seems so obvious that kid could easily have shot up the place;
that he was concerned and concious of NOT wanting to fire into the crowd; and his date was also concious on that level; even after he has been stabbed; as i read the direct witness the guy was grabbed, slammed, pulled THEN STABBED ONCE BEFORE THE KILLING STAB-STRIKE, WHICH WAS THE SECOND STABBING;...
the kid was beating beaten to smashed, stalked, chased and beaten to death and he still didn't shoot.
i'm not saying this thread but i've heard all kinds of overtly racist assumptions over the years...yeh black kid, trouble gangs drugs....
if he WASNT on drugs he'd be the ONLY person of several hundred thousand
who was not...including The Rolling Stones......
....but for me it's sort of an irrelevance; an endless provocation; violence-porn...
as it long ago does not really key into the Stones career meaningfully for me other than some crisp excellent performances under whacked invaded-stage; no barriers; low stage, etc...i sort of went into it a bit when i pasted the quote of a direct witness and the link as well;
i think if anyone was a hero that night it was Hunter.
i really wish that violence wasn't filmed and the violence wasn't promoted and exploited as the key selling point, including the entire suspenseful editing.
I admit i was fascinated by it all too;
i mean just for the exercise, imagine editing a '69 Stones NA Tour film
that wasn't a steady build-up to the money shot; as artful as that was;
and as FASCINATING as a lot of the footage is...
imagine having more than a few seconds of Ike and Tina Revue in their prime maturity....or more of 'this' or 'that'....you can't unrelease the movie haha; but it's painful for me; i like the performance footage; the Burritos were great....man, i'd keep all that stage footage at Altamont; that tells enough of the story; why slo mo the kill, reverse it; freeze it; slo mo it again...
...show people looking at it and guess what. they stare hlankly in shock at the horror like every other human big surprise....
it was handled horribly; the aftermath was handled with great coldness; it made a ton of money into the future forever.
theres's a million books; i like joels and sams; the times i've had a chance
to listen to their lectures or read excerpts....sam seems to wear he scar...
it's sort of interesting to observe; not that I'm seeking agreement necessarily;
but sometimes the myth or someone's preconceived notions; or unconcious predjudice just blanks out some of my even most intelligent friends. Certain subject matter is seemingly mutually agreed upon in a circle of friends and acquaintances; and it wouldn't matter if direct physical evidence of something happened right in front of them; they seem almost programmed; be it they are exopsed to endless repetition; almost hypnotic adverts or campaigns or whatever....
to me it seems so obvious that kid could easily have shot up the place;
that he was concerned and concious of NOT wanting to fire into the crowd; and his date was also concious on that level; even after he has been stabbed; as i read the direct witness the guy was grabbed, slammed, pulled THEN STABBED ONCE BEFORE THE KILLING STAB-STRIKE, WHICH WAS THE SECOND STABBING;...
the kid was beating beaten to smashed, stalked, chased and beaten to death and he still didn't shoot.
i'm not saying this thread but i've heard all kinds of overtly racist assumptions over the years...yeh black kid, trouble gangs drugs....
if he WASNT on drugs he'd be the ONLY person of several hundred thousand
who was not...including The Rolling Stones......
....but for me it's sort of an irrelevance; an endless provocation; violence-porn...
as it long ago does not really key into the Stones career meaningfully for me other than some crisp excellent performances under whacked invaded-stage; no barriers; low stage, etc...i sort of went into it a bit when i pasted the quote of a direct witness and the link as well;
i think if anyone was a hero that night it was Hunter.
i really wish that violence wasn't filmed and the violence wasn't promoted and exploited as the key selling point, including the entire suspenseful editing.
I admit i was fascinated by it all too;
i mean just for the exercise, imagine editing a '69 Stones NA Tour film
that wasn't a steady build-up to the money shot; as artful as that was;
and as FASCINATING as a lot of the footage is...
imagine having more than a few seconds of Ike and Tina Revue in their prime maturity....or more of 'this' or 'that'....you can't unrelease the movie haha; but it's painful for me; i like the performance footage; the Burritos were great....man, i'd keep all that stage footage at Altamont; that tells enough of the story; why slo mo the kill, reverse it; freeze it; slo mo it again...
...show people looking at it and guess what. they stare hlankly in shock at the horror like every other human big surprise....
it was handled horribly; the aftermath was handled with great coldness; it made a ton of money into the future forever.
theres's a million books; i like joels and sams; the times i've had a chance
to listen to their lectures or read excerpts....sam seems to wear he scar...
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: March 31, 2018 12:59
Quote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know
Sounds like self defense to me.
He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
curt
()
Date: March 31, 2018 12:59
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplane
Seems more like Hunter Meredith was acting in self defense
No it doesnt. Seems he was high on meth, got into a fight with the HA (a bunch of sociopaths) and decided to pull a gun at one of the HA. The HA stabbed him to death. Why on earth did he carry a revolver in the first place? He shouldve just ignored the disgusting Hells Angels.
I would think it a might difficult to "ignore" somebody and some of their friends who were harassing and assaulting you, wouldn't you ?
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
JJHMick
()
Date: March 31, 2018 13:31
I wonder whether he would have been killed by the Hells Angels anyway or if pulling the gun was the escalation of the situation that caused the killing.If somebody 'misbehaves' at a concert it certainly would have been enough to take him into some kind of custody.
This reminds me more of an incident from Northern Ireland wwhen two British military men (not in uniform) somehow disturbed an IRA man's funeral and finally got lynched when pulling their guns. That made me think the same: Would they have been caught and handed over to the police (that was filming the whole scene) before they pulled the guns - as it can be agreed that they were afraid of their lives or, at least, their health, too, just like Meredith Hunter.
This reminds me more of an incident from Northern Ireland wwhen two British military men (not in uniform) somehow disturbed an IRA man's funeral and finally got lynched when pulling their guns. That made me think the same: Would they have been caught and handed over to the police (that was filming the whole scene) before they pulled the guns - as it can be agreed that they were afraid of their lives or, at least, their health, too, just like Meredith Hunter.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
terraplane
()
Date: March 31, 2018 14:22
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know
Sounds like self defense to me.
He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.
None of them were being stabbed either
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
KevinLocksPerm
()
Date: March 31, 2018 15:05
So the consensus seems to be pro angels? I bet you guys masturbate whilst watching Gimme Shelter !
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
curt
()
Date: March 31, 2018 15:31
Quote
KevinLocksPerm
So the consensus seems to be pro angels? I bet you guys masturbate whilst watching Gimme Shelter !
Existing possibility that some of these pro-angel folk are simply RW gun lovers...
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: March 31, 2018 15:54
Without the bad planning and the misguided idea to recruit a criminal organization (HA) to handle security I guess this would never have happened and MH would still be alive today.
The guys behind the ramshackle planning bears an indirect responsibility for what happended in the end. No doubt about that.
The guys behind the ramshackle planning bears an indirect responsibility for what happended in the end. No doubt about that.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: March 31, 2018 16:06
Quote
terraplaneQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know
Sounds like self defense to me.
He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.
None of them were being stabbed either
Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
mikehat
()
Date: March 31, 2018 16:28
Quote
LeonidPQuote
terraplaneQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know
Sounds like self defense to me.
He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.
None of them were being stabbed either
Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.
That's how it appears in the film for sure.
I've always seen it that way but the witness who sounds credible enough said that he was stabbed first, then took the gun out and was stabbed more times.
He also said he thinks he was possibly stabbed by 2 people.
When Hunter first appears in the film he is stumbling trying to get steady on his feet.
It looks like there's someone he's breaking free from on the left side of the screen which is very hard to see, but it's there for a very brief moment.
It could be that he had been stabbed already by a different angel and that wasn't captured on the film.
It's a shame there aren't more witness statements to see if that guys recollection had any validity.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-31 16:43 by mikehat.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: March 31, 2018 16:30
Quote
LeonidPQuote
terraplaneQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know
Sounds like self defense to me.
He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.
None of them were being stabbed either
Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.
Terraplane looks to me as a lonely person, who just wants some conversation. He probably never watched the Gimme Shelter documentary, so comes up with pointless remarks. Other option is that his/her eyesight is not up to what it should be and then one only should feel sorry for terraplane.
No offense though
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
nick
()
Date: March 31, 2018 16:38
Quote
curtQuote
KevinLocksPerm
So the consensus seems to be pro angels? I bet you guys masturbate whilst watching Gimme Shelter !
Existing possibility that some of these pro-angel folk are simply RW gun lovers...
If the Angels were going against the guy with the gun then wouldn't they be LW?? Typical isn't it. Kevin got nothing left so he get's crude and Curt saying something completely opposite to inject politics into it. Last but not least, stanlove will be on soon to fight the fight for the right.
Face it guys, you don't give a crap about any of this. Only politics. Go finish this up on the FOX and MSNBC forums.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: March 31, 2018 16:51
Quote
Stoneage
Without the bad planning and the misguided idea to recruit a criminal organization (HA) to handle security I guess this would never have happened and MH would still be alive today.
The guys behind the ramshackle planning bears an indirect responsibility for what happended in the end. No doubt about that.
Unless Hunter had gotten into a fight with somebody else. Meth and a gun is quite a combo. We'll never know. Yes, hiring Hells Angels was a bad idea.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
terraplane
()
Date: March 31, 2018 16:53
Quote
georgie48Quote
LeonidPQuote
terraplaneQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know
Sounds like self defense to me.
He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.
None of them were being stabbed either
Huh? Wasn't the stabbing after the gun was pulled? .... wow, it's amazing how far some will go to try to prove a point.
Terraplane looks to me as a lonely person, who just wants some conversation. He probably never watched the Gimme Shelter documentary, so comes up with pointless remarks. Other option is that his/her eyesight is not up to what it should be and then one only should feel sorry for terraplane.
No offense though
I am neither lonely, starved for conversation, nor is my eyesight poor. I have seen the Gimme Shelter movie. My remark was simply that Hunter was likely acting in self-defense (based on the eyewitness account that somebody else posted above). Try to keep up.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: March 31, 2018 16:54
Quote
curtQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplane
Seems more like Hunter Meredith was acting in self defense
No it doesnt. Seems he was high on meth, got into a fight with the HA (a bunch of sociopaths) and decided to pull a gun at one of the HA. The HA stabbed him to death. Why on earth did he carry a revolver in the first place? He shouldve just ignored the disgusting Hells Angels.
I would think it a might difficult to "ignore" somebody and some of their friends who were harassing and assaulting you, wouldn't you ?
Not really. Everybody else tried to ignore the Hells Angels despite their horrible beatings with pool sticks etc. had they picked a fight with me I'd just move away from those sociopaths.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: March 31, 2018 16:57
Quote
terraplaneQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know
Sounds like self defense to me.
He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.
None of them were being stabbed either
No but he was stabbed after he pulled the gun. Others were beaten but none of them aimed guns at anybody.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 31, 2018 17:00
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplaneQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplane
He didn't give him any verbal provocation or anything. So they're chasing through the crowd. And they hitting him and one Hell's Angel pulled out a knife and stabbed him in the back. What kind of knife? I couldn't tell. I just saw the flash of the blade. Everything was happening too fast. And he hit him in the back and he pulled out a gun and held it up in the air you know . . . like that was kind of his last resort, you know
Sounds like self defense to me.
He brought a gun to a concert? He chose to return with a gun pointing at the "Angel". That's not self defense. Not defending the Hells Angels at all but Hunter was high and armed and got into a fight/was being picked on by the Hells Angels. Many were that day and none of them pulled a gun and none of them got killed.
None of them were being stabbed either
No but he was stabbed after he pulled the gun. Others were beaten but none of them aimed guns at anybody.
Or before AND after, as the witness claims..
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
KevinLocksPerm
()
Date: March 31, 2018 17:15
Quote
nickQuote
curtQuote
KevinLocksPerm
So the consensus seems to be pro angels? I bet you guys masturbate whilst watching Gimme Shelter !
Existing possibility that some of these pro-angel folk are simply RW gun lovers...
If the Angels were going against the guy with the gun then wouldn't they be LW?? Typical isn't it. Kevin got nothing left so he get's crude and Curt saying something completely opposite to inject politics into it. Last but not least, stanlove will be on soon to fight the fight for the right.
Face it guys, you don't give a crap about any of this. Only politics. Go finish this up on the FOX and MSNBC forums.
Actually my name isn’t Kevin. True I don’t really give a crap about 95% of what’s been typed here. I just dispute the OP and his suggestion that whoever killed Hunter is a hero. But I have found some of the “good ole boy” sentiments expressed within this thread rather disturbing.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
KevinLocksPerm
()
Date: March 31, 2018 17:17
Quote
KevinLocksPermQuote
nickjQuote
curtQuote
KevinLocksPerm
So the consensus seems to be pro angels? I bet you guys masturbate whilst watching Gimme Shelter !
Existing possibility that some of these pro-angel folk are simply RW gun lovers...
If the Angels were going against the guy with the gun then wouldn't they be LW?? Typical isn't it. Kevin got nothing left so he get's crude and Curt saying something completely opposite to inject politics into it. Last but not least, stanlove will be on soon to fight the fight for the right.
Face it guys, you don't give a crap about any of this. Only politics. Go finish this up on the FOX and MSNBC forums.
Actually my name isn’t Kevin. True I don’t really give a crap about 95% of what’s been typed here. I just dispute the OP and his suggestion that whoever killed Hunter is a hero. But I have found some of the “good ole boy” sentiments expressed within this thread rather disturbing.
And I wasn’t seeking to be crude. Just suggesting that some here actually get their rocks off watching the violence perpetrated by the angels in Gimme Shelter.
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: March 31, 2018 18:02
Quote
curtQuote
The SicilianQuote
curtQuote
The SicilianQuote
curtQuote
The Sicilian
A hypothetical situation:
So if a bystander, doorman, fan or anyone nearby had witnessed Mark David Chapman pulling out a gun and pointing it towards John Lennon, and that person grabs Chapman's arm with the gun before he can fire it and attacks him with a knife, is he a murderer or is he a hero because he just saved Lennon's life? Of course we all know the opposite happened and Lennon was murdered. But what if...
A few pages back I had asked you three questions:
1. Are you an American ?
2. Were you at the Altamont gig ?
3. Are you at all acquainted with any of the Hell's Angels chapters ?
Perhaps you missed these questions earlier.
I'm American, most everyone knows that, I was not at Altamont and I know of a couple chapters but have no affiliations with anyone.
Thank for your answers to my questions. Your response is informative as regards your understanding of what it is that occurred that day. Would you agree with me that your viewpoint is based on seeing the movie Gimmee Shelter ?
Actually, I wouldn't agree entirely with that, I have seen it, but my opinion is more based more on articles read, studying pictures, video clips, comments of others. Unless you were there in front, everything is second hand. I wasn't in Ford's Theatre either but I'm quite sure John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln and jumped off the balcony as he made his escape.
So, with only indirect or third party information about this occurrence, you reject the notion that racism played a part in this tragedy ?
Why do you not see how illogical your argument is? Again you are actually doing what I have been talking about. Your argument is that if we don't have proof that it was racial or not then it has to be considered racism. That is ridiculous. Your argument actually sets up the theory that anything that happened to any black person anywhere in 1969 had to happen to them because of the color of their skin. You honestly don't see how crazy that argument is and probably don't even realize you are making that argument.
The only rational opinion is nobody knows if it was racially motivated or not. When all evidence is looked at a better case can be made that it was not. I already explained why that is and my logic is spotless. Look back. You rebuted nothing I said about that,
Re: Is the Hells Angel who took out Meredith Hunter a hero?
Posted by:
curt
()
Date: March 31, 2018 18:06
Quote
RedhotcarpetQuote
curtQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
terraplane
Seems more like Hunter Meredith was acting in self defense
No it doesnt. Seems he was high on meth, got into a fight with the HA (a bunch of sociopaths) and decided to pull a gun at one of the HA. The HA stabbed him to death. Why on earth did he carry a revolver in the first place? He shouldve just ignored the disgusting Hells Angels.
I would think it a might difficult to "ignore" somebody and some of their friends who were harassing and assaulting you, wouldn't you ?
Not really. Everybody else tried to ignore the Hells Angels despite their horrible beatings with pool sticks etc. had they picked a fight with me I'd just move away from those sociopaths.
Have you had much experience with thugs or bullies ?
You know, the kind who will pursue those who shrink away in fear
It has been my observation in life that this batch (Hell's Angels) gets off on torment and dominates by way of physical violence.
These "Angels" are no one's friend or savior.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-31 18:13 by curt.
This Thread has been closed
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