Quote
KevinLocksPerm
So many apologists for the angels. Disturbing.

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
Frightening to think that such people walk among us on IORR.

Quote
stanlove

Quote
curt

Quote
PaintMonkeyManBlack

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
You have to ask regardless of the gun issue would Hunter have come to the attention of the angels had he not been black and had he not been wearing a bright green suit. I suspect not.

Speculation and also not relevant

Facts are:

- He had a gun in a place where you should not have and wave with a gun
- The Hells Angels prevented him from doing damage to other people

There is no evidence at all that there are racist motives. It is not like Hunter did nothing. He was a real treat and the Angels responded to that treat. Not on his color.

I do not approve the behavior of the Angels on that day and also the question if the force used on Hunter was neccessary is a legitimate one. But racist? Absolutly no reason to assume anything like it.

("You know in November I'm going to go before the Adult Authority for them to set my sentence and they're going to stick all kinds of shit on my jacket [prison file] – 'racist, Nazi-affiliated,' and all. And they're going to hang me up on a silent murder beef. They're going to keep denying me parole for a full eight years and a half. Especially after I talk to you.")

A quote from Passaro himself while doing time for an additional violation of law.

[www.rollingstone.com]

And this from another music board:

What the "film" fails to mention is that Meredith Hunter was being threatened and repeatedly harassed by the Hell's Angles because his girlfriend was white and he was black (there is a shot of her bawling her eyes out after he was killed in the film without any real explanation as to who she is or why she's crying - she's the blonde right next to him). He pulled the gun when he was in fear for his life and, unfortunately, that didn't go over well with the angels, who were out of their heads (as if they had any brains anyway) and looking for an excuse.

Ultimately, Merideth Hunter was killed by some racist throwbacks who couldn't accept that times were changing. Who didn't believe in freedom for all people. Losers who used their position of power and authority to advance their bigotry and prejudice. Indeed, the 60's were coming to a close.

History has done a pretty good job of obscuring the facts of the incident. Over time, Meredith has become relegated to some random black guy who pulled a gun during the concert with no explanation as to why.


Another comment from a music forum:
As for the contention that they are racists, all I can do is point out that they do *not* accept blacks as prospective members and have stated that they never will

Nothing you posted proved he was killed because the Angles were racist. Haven't we already been through this?

The argument that he was repeatedly harassed doesn't even make sense. You really believe that he was repeatedly harassed but was still hanging out by the stage at the time that he was killed? That makes no sense at all. It obviously would have come to a head much earlier. We know what the witness said. When Hunter was roughed up ( he saw it once ) he right away pulled out his gun.

I would like to see any proof that Hunter was roughed up because he was a black guy who was with a White girl. Did the Angels tell him that or was he just another guy getting roughed up and since he was black some people assumed it was because he was black

If some of the Angels were racist ( be surprised if some were not ) it is irrelevant as we have already seen that he was treated like many whites there. Because someone doesn't want you in their group does not mean they want to physically hurt you. Was there a big problem of Angles going around killing black people? I have never heard of that.

The only rational opinion on this is we don't know if race had anything to do with it. Only Passaro knew if it did.

Quote
curt

Quote
stanlove

Quote
curt

Quote
PaintMonkeyManBlack

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
You have to ask regardless of the gun issue would Hunter have come to the attention of the angels had he not been black and had he not been wearing a bright green suit. I suspect not.

Speculation and also not relevant

Facts are:

- He had a gun in a place where you should not have and wave with a gun
- The Hells Angels prevented him from doing damage to other people

There is no evidence at all that there are racist motives. It is not like Hunter did nothing. He was a real treat and the Angels responded to that treat. Not on his color.

I do not approve the behavior of the Angels on that day and also the question if the force used on Hunter was neccessary is a legitimate one. But racist? Absolutly no reason to assume anything like it.

("You know in November I'm going to go before the Adult Authority for them to set my sentence and they're going to stick all kinds of shit on my jacket [prison file] – 'racist, Nazi-affiliated,' and all. And they're going to hang me up on a silent murder beef. They're going to keep denying me parole for a full eight years and a half. Especially after I talk to you.")

A quote from Passaro himself while doing time for an additional violation of law.

[www.rollingstone.com]

And this from another music board:

What the "film" fails to mention is that Meredith Hunter was being threatened and repeatedly harassed by the Hell's Angles because his girlfriend was white and he was black (there is a shot of her bawling her eyes out after he was killed in the film without any real explanation as to who she is or why she's crying - she's the blonde right next to him). He pulled the gun when he was in fear for his life and, unfortunately, that didn't go over well with the angels, who were out of their heads (as if they had any brains anyway) and looking for an excuse.

Ultimately, Merideth Hunter was killed by some racist throwbacks who couldn't accept that times were changing. Who didn't believe in freedom for all people. Losers who used their position of power and authority to advance their bigotry and prejudice. Indeed, the 60's were coming to a close.

History has done a pretty good job of obscuring the facts of the incident. Over time, Meredith has become relegated to some random black guy who pulled a gun during the concert with no explanation as to why.


Another comment from a music forum:
As for the contention that they are racists, all I can do is point out that they do *not* accept blacks as prospective members and have stated that they never will

Nothing you posted proved he was killed because the Angles were racist. Haven't we already been through this?

The argument that he was repeatedly harassed doesn't even make sense. You really believe that he was repeatedly harassed but was still hanging out by the stage at the time that he was killed? That makes no sense at all. It obviously would have come to a head much earlier. We know what the witness said. When Hunter was roughed up ( he saw it once ) he right away pulled out his gun.

I would like to see any proof that Hunter was roughed up because he was a black guy who was with a White girl. Did the Angels tell him that or was he just another guy getting roughed up and since he was black some people assumed it was because he was black

If some of the Angels were racist ( be surprised if some were not ) it is irrelevant as we have already seen that he was treated like many whites there. Because someone doesn't want you in their group does not mean they want to physically hurt you. Was there a big problem of Angles going around killing black people? I have never heard of that.

The only rational opinion on this is we don't know if race had anything to do with it. Only Passaro knew if it did.

Again, I must ask the same questions:

1 Are you an American ?
2 Were you at the gig ?
3 Are you personally acquainted with any Hell's Angels chapter, particularly the Oakland chapter ?

Quote
stanlove

Quote
curt

Quote
stanlove

Quote
curt

Quote
PaintMonkeyManBlack

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
You have to ask regardless of the gun issue would Hunter have come to the attention of the angels had he not been black and had he not been wearing a bright green suit. I suspect not.

Speculation and also not relevant

Facts are:

- He had a gun in a place where you should not have and wave with a gun
- The Hells Angels prevented him from doing damage to other people

There is no evidence at all that there are racist motives. It is not like Hunter did nothing. He was a real treat and the Angels responded to that treat. Not on his color.

I do not approve the behavior of the Angels on that day and also the question if the force used on Hunter was neccessary is a legitimate one. But racist? Absolutly no reason to assume anything like it.

("You know in November I'm going to go before the Adult Authority for them to set my sentence and they're going to stick all kinds of shit on my jacket [prison file] – 'racist, Nazi-affiliated,' and all. And they're going to hang me up on a silent murder beef. They're going to keep denying me parole for a full eight years and a half. Especially after I talk to you.")

A quote from Passaro himself while doing time for an additional violation of law.

[www.rollingstone.com]

And this from another music board:

What the "film" fails to mention is that Meredith Hunter was being threatened and repeatedly harassed by the Hell's Angles because his girlfriend was white and he was black (there is a shot of her bawling her eyes out after he was killed in the film without any real explanation as to who she is or why she's crying - she's the blonde right next to him). He pulled the gun when he was in fear for his life and, unfortunately, that didn't go over well with the angels, who were out of their heads (as if they had any brains anyway) and looking for an excuse.

Ultimately, Merideth Hunter was killed by some racist throwbacks who couldn't accept that times were changing. Who didn't believe in freedom for all people. Losers who used their position of power and authority to advance their bigotry and prejudice. Indeed, the 60's were coming to a close.

History has done a pretty good job of obscuring the facts of the incident. Over time, Meredith has become relegated to some random black guy who pulled a gun during the concert with no explanation as to why.


Another comment from a music forum:
As for the contention that they are racists, all I can do is point out that they do *not* accept blacks as prospective members and have stated that they never will

Nothing you posted proved he was killed because the Angles were racist. Haven't we already been through this?

The argument that he was repeatedly harassed doesn't even make sense. You really believe that he was repeatedly harassed but was still hanging out by the stage at the time that he was killed? That makes no sense at all. It obviously would have come to a head much earlier. We know what the witness said. When Hunter was roughed up ( he saw it once ) he right away pulled out his gun.

I would like to see any proof that Hunter was roughed up because he was a black guy who was with a White girl. Did the Angels tell him that or was he just another guy getting roughed up and since he was black some people assumed it was because he was black

If some of the Angels were racist ( be surprised if some were not ) it is irrelevant as we have already seen that he was treated like many whites there. Because someone doesn't want you in their group does not mean they want to physically hurt you. Was there a big problem of Angles going around killing black people? I have never heard of that.

The only rational opinion on this is we don't know if race had anything to do with it. Only Passaro knew if it did.

Again, I must ask the same questions:

1 Are you an American ?
2 Were you at the gig ?
3 Are you personally acquainted with any Hell's Angels chapter, particularly the Oakland chapter ?

All irrelevant question. I have yet to see any proof that Hunter was picked on or killed because he was black. I already said it is possible but nobody can give proof or make a good argument that it it the case.

I have already made the arguments why that is not logical. Look back.

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
Just to go back to the original post. How can anyone regard a murderer to be a hero? If you can then there is something wrong with you.

Quote
curt

Quote
stanlove

Quote
curt

Quote
stanlove

Quote
curt

Quote
PaintMonkeyManBlack

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
You have to ask regardless of the gun issue would Hunter have come to the attention of the angels had he not been black and had he not been wearing a bright green suit. I suspect not.

Speculation and also not relevant

Facts are:

- He had a gun in a place where you should not have and wave with a gun
- The Hells Angels prevented him from doing damage to other people

There is no evidence at all that there are racist motives. It is not like Hunter did nothing. He was a real treat and the Angels responded to that treat. Not on his color.

I do not approve the behavior of the Angels on that day and also the question if the force used on Hunter was neccessary is a legitimate one. But racist? Absolutly no reason to assume anything like it.

("You know in November I'm going to go before the Adult Authority for them to set my sentence and they're going to stick all kinds of shit on my jacket [prison file] – 'racist, Nazi-affiliated,' and all. And they're going to hang me up on a silent murder beef. They're going to keep denying me parole for a full eight years and a half. Especially after I talk to you.")

A quote from Passaro himself while doing time for an additional violation of law.

[www.rollingstone.com]

And this from another music board:

What the "film" fails to mention is that Meredith Hunter was being threatened and repeatedly harassed by the Hell's Angles because his girlfriend was white and he was black (there is a shot of her bawling her eyes out after he was killed in the film without any real explanation as to who she is or why she's crying - she's the blonde right next to him). He pulled the gun when he was in fear for his life and, unfortunately, that didn't go over well with the angels, who were out of their heads (as if they had any brains anyway) and looking for an excuse.

Ultimately, Merideth Hunter was killed by some racist throwbacks who couldn't accept that times were changing. Who didn't believe in freedom for all people. Losers who used their position of power and authority to advance their bigotry and prejudice. Indeed, the 60's were coming to a close.

History has done a pretty good job of obscuring the facts of the incident. Over time, Meredith has become relegated to some random black guy who pulled a gun during the concert with no explanation as to why.


Another comment from a music forum:
As for the contention that they are racists, all I can do is point out that they do *not* accept blacks as prospective members and have stated that they never will

Nothing you posted proved he was killed because the Angles were racist. Haven't we already been through this?

The argument that he was repeatedly harassed doesn't even make sense. You really believe that he was repeatedly harassed but was still hanging out by the stage at the time that he was killed? That makes no sense at all. It obviously would have come to a head much earlier. We know what the witness said. When Hunter was roughed up ( he saw it once ) he right away pulled out his gun.

I would like to see any proof that Hunter was roughed up because he was a black guy who was with a White girl. Did the Angels tell him that or was he just another guy getting roughed up and since he was black some people assumed it was because he was black

If some of the Angels were racist ( be surprised if some were not ) it is irrelevant as we have already seen that he was treated like many whites there. Because someone doesn't want you in their group does not mean they want to physically hurt you. Was there a big problem of Angles going around killing black people? I have never heard of that.

The only rational opinion on this is we don't know if race had anything to do with it. Only Passaro knew if it did.

Again, I must ask the same questions:

1 Are you an American ?
2 Were you at the gig ?
3 Are you personally acquainted with any Hell's Angels chapter, particularly the Oakland chapter ?

All irrelevant question. I have yet to see any proof that Hunter was picked on or killed because he was black. I already said it is possible but nobody can give proof or make a good argument that it it the case.

I have already made the arguments why that is not logical. Look back.

If you are unable to answer these simple questions, you would simply be unable to comprehend a full explication of my statements.

Quote
curt
"Your question are irrelevant. How do you not see that?

1- Yes. So what?
2- Nope. Most people there did not know what was going on. People who have had 50 years to study the evidence know more then almost everyone at the concert about what happened..It is like saying that you had to be at Dealy Plaza to know who killed JFK. It is ridiculous.
3-No. irrelvant unless of course you ran into Passaro and he told you he killed Hunter because Hunter was black.

Your question are obvious and irrelevant."

What is your understanding of the circumstances attendant upon the state of mind from which racism springs ?

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
Just to go back to the original post. How can anyone regard a murderer to be a hero? If you can then there is something wrong with you.

Quote
stanlove

Quote
curt
"Your question are irrelevant. How do you not see that?

1- Yes. So what?
2- Nope. Most people there did not know what was going on. People who have had 50 years to study the evidence know more then almost everyone at the concert about what happened..It is like saying that you had to be at Dealy Plaza to know who killed JFK. It is ridiculous.
3-No. irrelvant unless of course you ran into Passaro and he told you he killed Hunter because Hunter was black.

Your question are obvious and irrelevant."

What is your understanding of the circumstances attendant upon the state of mind from which racism springs ?

Lets hope you are joking here.

You again are setting up exactly what I have been talking about. You are setting up the argument that nothing can ever happen to someone who just happens to be black it has to happen because he is black. I am amazed that you do not see that.

Now what I am looking for is any proof that Passaro killed Hunter because Hunter was black. You will not give any. Again to someone like you if there is no proof either way then just chalk it up to racism. Very scary stuff and way too much of that going on.

I will take the rational approach. There is no proof either way that Hunter as killed because he was black. So all that should be accepted is we can't know. Obviously it is a possibility but a decent argument cannot be made for it.

By the way you would not happen to be a teacher would you?

Quote
curt

Quote
stanlove

Quote
curt
"Your question are irrelevant. How do you not see that?

1- Yes. So what?
2- Nope. Most people there did not know what was going on. People who have had 50 years to study the evidence know more then almost everyone at the concert about what happened..It is like saying that you had to be at Dealy Plaza to know who killed JFK. It is ridiculous.
3-No. irrelvant unless of course you ran into Passaro and he told you he killed Hunter because Hunter was black.

Your question are obvious and irrelevant."

What is your understanding of the circumstances attendant upon the state of mind from which racism springs ?

Lets hope you are joking here.

You again are setting up exactly what I have been talking about. You are setting up the argument that nothing can ever happen to someone who just happens to be black it has to happen because he is black. I am amazed that you do not see that.

Now what I am looking for is any proof that Passaro killed Hunter because Hunter was black. You will not give any. Again to someone like you if there is no proof either way then just chalk it up to racism. Very scary stuff and way too much of that going on.

I will take the rational approach. There is no proof either way that Hunter as killed because he was black. So all that should be accepted is we can't know. Obviously it is a possibility but a decent argument cannot be made for it.

By the way you would not happen to be a teacher would you?

My view of the Angels and racism comes from hearing a conversation between a fellow I worked with in Oakland and Sonny Barger himself at Barger's residence in Oakland in 1976.

I can offer no statement from Passaro himself.
And really I was only trying to say that racism was an aspect of this killing.
No, I am not a teacher.

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
Just to go back to the original post. How can anyone regard a murderer to be a hero? If you can then there is something wrong with you.

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
Just to go back to the original post. How can anyone regard a murderer to be a hero? If you can then there is something wrong with you.

Passaro was cleared of murder.
By insisting he was a murderer, you are actually making a libelous remark.

You want to hope none of his family are reading this, else you might get sued for libelous defamation of character.

Quote
Cooltoplady

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
Just to go back to the original post. How can anyone regard a murderer to be a hero? If you can then there is something wrong with you.

Passaro was cleared of murder.
By insisting he was a murderer, you are actually making a libelous remark.

You want to hope none of his family are reading this, else you might get sued for libelous defamation of character.

Wow where do you come up with this?

Quote
curt
"Was there a big problem with the Angels killing of attacking black people during that time? I have never heard of that."

By the same token I am not aware of any instance in which any Hell's Angel participated in any Civil Rights marches, though they were among those who harried said protesters ...

Quote
PaintMonkeyManBlack

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
You have to ask regardless of the gun issue would Hunter have come to the attention of the angels had he not been black and had he not been wearing a bright green suit. I suspect not.

Speculation and also not relevant

Facts are:

- He had a gun in a place where you should not have and wave with a gun
- The Hells Angels prevented him from doing damage to other people

There is no evidence at all that there are racist motives. It is not like Hunter did nothing. He was a real treat and the Angels responded to that treat. Not on his color. The only "damage" being done was by the motorcycle club .What would you do if YOU were Hunter ? And the members of the motorcycle club did not like the date that you brought to the show ? Seriously making apologies for a murder ? Really ?

I do not approve the behavior of the Angels on that day and also the question if the force used on Hunter was neccessary is a legitimate one. But racist? Absolutly no reason to assume anything like it.

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
Cooltoplady

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
Just to go back to the original post. How can anyone regard a murderer to be a hero? If you can then there is something wrong with you.

Passaro was cleared of murder.
By insisting he was a murderer, you are actually making a libelous remark.

You want to hope none of his family are reading this, else you might get sued for libelous defamation of character.

Wow where do you come up with this?

Just by educating myself........

Passaro was charged with murder. After an eight-man, four-woman jury deliberated for 12 and a half hours, following 17 days of testimony, Passaro was acquitted on grounds of self-defense. ......... [en.wikipedia.org]

Quote
Stoneage
I'm afraid you're out cycling now EB. There are very demanding prerequisites for prosecuting someone for slander.
Anyone here can speculate on whether Passaro was a murderer or not without risking legal action. Of course.

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
Just to go back to the original post. How can anyone regard a murderer to be a hero? If you can then there is something wrong with you.

Passaro was cleared of murder.
By insisting he was a murderer, you are actually making a libelous remark.

You want to hope none of his family are reading this, else you might get sued for libelous defamation of character.

Quote
KevinLocksPerm

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
Just to go back to the original post. How can anyone regard a murderer to be a hero? If you can then there is something wrong with you.

Passaro was cleared of murder.
By insisting he was a murderer, you are actually making a libelous remark.

You want to hope none of his family are reading this, else you might get sued for libelous defamation of character.

Actually I have no comment to make about any indivudual or abòut who did what. I have no in depth interest about who did what. I never even knew the names of individual angels and have never read about any trials. I havent speculated about who did what and I am not interssted in that level of detail.

But at a high level I am critical of those IORR memembers who talk about heroism. Some unpleasant vibes have emerged in this thread.

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
Stoneage
I'm afraid you're out cycling now EB. There are very demanding prerequisites for prosecuting someone for slander.
Anyone here can speculate on whether Passaro was a murderer or not without risking legal action. Of course.

Yeah, fair enough, I just found that out, the first prerequisite being, the libeled/slandered/defamed must be alive.................."No one can defame the dead"..........under US & European law at least...........

He was cleared in a US court though, so, if people want to continue to undermine the rule of law by rehashing the whole thing well, so be it.........good luck in exhausting 'your' minds though, for no real purpose........

Quote
KevinLocksPerm

Quote
EddieByword

Quote
KevinLocksPerm
Just to go back to the original post. How can anyone regard a murderer to be a hero? If you can then there is something wrong with you.

Passaro was cleared of murder.
By insisting he was a murderer, you are actually making a libelous remark.

You want to hope none of his family are reading this, else you might get sued for libelous defamation of character.

Actually I have no comment to make about any indivudual or abòut who did what. I have no in depth interest about who did what. I never even knew the names of individual angels and have never read about any trials. I havent speculated about who did what and I am not interssted in that level of detail.

But at a high level I am critical of those IORR memembers who talk about heroism. Some unpleasant vibes have emerged in this thread.