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grzegorz67

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laertisflash
"England has 4 shows on sale and all in bigger venues than the PGE Narodowy. England has 52/53 million people and Poland 38 million".

That's right, grzegor67. BTW, given that (a) the Stones added second gig at London stadium and (b) Old Trafford seems to be close to sold out, we can guess that ticket sales in England are not exactly poor sales...

They have more shows per capita than Poland. And don’t forget that the Principality Stadium in Cardiff, Wales - a huge stadium, is within easy reach of very large populations in England.

London Stadium 1, Twickenham and Old Trafford are all selling well. Sales appear to be much slower at London Stadium 2 and Cardiff.

Dublin could sell well enough considering it's open night and it's been a while since they played Ireland

If Dublin is cancelled then I could have a tough time trying to get a seated ticket to Manchester

You really wont.

You'll easily get face value tickets for any show you want in any category.

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syrel

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john lomax

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syrel

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jrcjohnny99

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brownsugar86
I'm sure it's been discussed many times before in other threads, but how much roughly do you think each of the 4 get for a show in London etc. ? After expenses.

Based on other big bands, it's probably pretty close to a million each per show;
if you look at gross per stadium show being 8-10m for a 50k stadium; take 25% off for promoters and another 25% off for touring costs (set up, crew, rest of band), then you're left with approx 4-5m for the band.
crazy

Promoters don't make any money off Stones shows, they do it for the prestige. The promoter of the Australian tour in 2014 became legendary because he actually made a profit of a Stones tour - but it was measured in cents not dollars!

I think the promoters will be ok. Take London stadium for example. The promoter needs to pay the Stones 5 million quid for their fee. Assume the promoter then needs to spend another 5 million on costs (venue hire, promotion, insurance, legal etc). So 10 mill in costs.

If they sell 1000 put tix at 500 each that’s 500,000

Then say 6,000 good circle tix at 250 each gives 1.5 million

Then assume they sell another 60,000 tix at an average of £150 each, gives 9 million.

And it makes sense to do a second show because a lot of these costs (promo, legal, insurance) are largely fixed anyway regardless of how many shows, so the cost of putting on a second show might be only 7 million. So they could conceivably sell only, say, 45,000 at the second show and they would be ok.

Can you tell me where you are getting those numbers from please? I'd be interested if you can substantiate any of them. All information I've ever seen suggests that the Stones squeeze everything they can out of the promoters, leaving nothing for them.

syrel

I did a simple maths for Prague, since the exact capacities are known from the promoter's page. The calculation is in Czech crowns, the final result is in dollars to compare it to what the promoter pays to The Stones.

Pit: 1000 x 10 000 = 10 mil.
FOS: 15 000 x 4 600 = 69 mil.
Seats: 21 000 x 4 600 = 96,6 mil.
Standing: 48 000 x 2 000 = 96 mil.

That is 271,6 mil. CZK = 13,25 mil. dollars.

I only counted regular prices, there is more that will be earned on VIP packages, travell packages etc., plus money from advertisements, selling food, beverages or renting places for other compannies that will do so.

So I think that if the show is a sell out, they get at least something like 15 mil. dollars, probably even more, maybe close to 20 mil.

On the other hand, they have to rent the field, bulid and prepare the facilities, pay the people who take part in the organization...

From those figures I assume they have to sell something like 1/3 - 1/2 of the tickets to cover all the cost, more than a half is a pure promoter's profit. So don't get fooled with words about prestige and other touching fairytales, it is only about money of course and in the end, if it is a sell-out, the promoter gets more than the "greedy" Stones. And if it is not a sell-out, the promoter still gets piles and piles of money.

The conclusion is: The Stones get insane amount of money, but they surely don't squeeze everything they can out of the promoters, leaving nothing for them. The promoters rather squeez everything they can out of the fans.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 09:50 by Happy24.

Hey Gazza, I saw your message above about the ease of getting tickets. I felt reassured by your post. I am still on the look out for lower tier Twickenham tickets... Do you have any tips?

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Happy24

From those figures I assume they have to sell something like 1/3 - 1/2 of the tickets to cover all the cost, more than a half is a pure promoter's profit. So don't get fooled with words about prestige and other touching fairytales, it is only about money of course and in the end, if it is a sell-out, the promoter gets more than the "greedy" Stones. And if it is not a sell-out, the promoter still gets piles and piles of money.

Thanks Happy24. When I need some inside info about what I'm involved in as part of my career, I'll come to you...

syrel

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syrel

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Happy24

From those figures I assume they have to sell something like 1/3 - 1/2 of the tickets to cover all the cost, more than a half is a pure promoter's profit. So don't get fooled with words about prestige and other touching fairytales, it is only about money of course and in the end, if it is a sell-out, the promoter gets more than the "greedy" Stones. And if it is not a sell-out, the promoter still gets piles and piles of money.

Thanks Happy24. When I need some inside info about what I'm involved in as part of my career, I'll come to you...

syrel

Syrel, feel free to ask of course, but I have no inside info, all those figures are taken from the promoter's facebook.

[www.facebook.com]

I believe 2nd Warsaw show would be an easy sellout too, just can't imagine that happening to be honest.

The great buzz about this show is due few reasons:

- Many younger fans didn't see Stones before as they were too young back in 2007
- Stones built their legacy as the most legendary touring band on the plant
- Loads of press coverage incl. TV documentaries and books about the historical Warsaw 1967 shows
- Polish population is slowly getting richer, especially in big cities like Warsaw, and can afford spending 100-200€ for a concert.

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wickerman
I believe 2nd Warsaw show would be an easy sellout too, just can't imagine that happening to be honest.

The great buzz about this show is due few reasons:

- Many younger fans didn't see Stones before as they were too young back in 2007
- Stones built their legacy as the most legendary touring band on the plant
- Loads of press coverage incl. TV documentaries and books about the historical Warsaw 1967 shows
- Polish population is slowly getting richer, especially in big cities like Warsaw, and can afford spending 100-200€ for a concert.

There were many sold out 1st shows in Stones history, with the 2nd added date selling poorly then. For instance Dusseldorf 98/Cologne 99 (different cities, but only 30 km apart). If they play on July 11 or 12 (!), then probably somewhere else.

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Happy24

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syrel

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Happy24

From those figures I assume they have to sell something like 1/3 - 1/2 of the tickets to cover all the cost, more than a half is a pure promoter's profit. So don't get fooled with words about prestige and other touching fairytales, it is only about money of course and in the end, if it is a sell-out, the promoter gets more than the "greedy" Stones. And if it is not a sell-out, the promoter still gets piles and piles of money.

Thanks Happy24. When I need some inside info about what I'm involved in as part of my career, I'll come to you...

syrel

Syrel, feel free to ask of course, but I have no inside info, all those figures are taken from the promoter's facebook.

[www.facebook.com]

And that is exactly my point - you are using publicly available information about grosses to infer private contractual information about revenue splits. It's like saying the average income in the UK is £25,000 so everyone is fine.

syrel

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syrel

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Happy24

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syrel

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Happy24

From those figures I assume they have to sell something like 1/3 - 1/2 of the tickets to cover all the cost, more than a half is a pure promoter's profit. So don't get fooled with words about prestige and other touching fairytales, it is only about money of course and in the end, if it is a sell-out, the promoter gets more than the "greedy" Stones. And if it is not a sell-out, the promoter still gets piles and piles of money.

Thanks Happy24. When I need some inside info about what I'm involved in as part of my career, I'll come to you...

syrel

Syrel, feel free to ask of course, but I have no inside info, all those figures are taken from the promoter's facebook.

[www.facebook.com]

And that is exactly my point - you are using publicly available information about grosses to infer private contractual information about revenue splits. It's like saying the average income in the UK is £25,000 so everyone is fine.

syrel

I clearly stated, what I did - I multiplied the publicly known ammount of tickets and publicky known prices. Then I clearly stated what I assume from those figures. I never stated I had any inside info or anything. You clearly have a different opinion, which is fine, but please don't attack me that I pretend to have an inside info since I have never indicated anything like that



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 10:41 by Happy24.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 10:40 by Happy24.

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Happy24

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syrel

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Happy24

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syrel

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Happy24

From those figures I assume they have to sell something like 1/3 - 1/2 of the tickets to cover all the cost, more than a half is a pure promoter's profit. So don't get fooled with words about prestige and other touching fairytales, it is only about money of course and in the end, if it is a sell-out, the promoter gets more than the "greedy" Stones. And if it is not a sell-out, the promoter still gets piles and piles of money.

Thanks Happy24. When I need some inside info about what I'm involved in as part of my career, I'll come to you...

syrel

Syrel, feel free to ask of course, but I have no inside info, all those figures are taken from the promoter's facebook.

[www.facebook.com]

And that is exactly my point - you are using publicly available information about grosses to infer private contractual information about revenue splits. It's like saying the average income in the UK is £25,000 so everyone is fine.

syrel

I clearly stated, what I did - I multiplied the publicly known ammount of tickets and publicky known prices. Then I clearly stated what I assume from those figures. I never stated I had any inside info or anything. You clearly have a different opinion, which is fine, but please don't attack me that I pretend to have an inside info since I have never indicated anything like that

Happy, I don't want this to drag on into a heated argument.The reason I asked for inside info was that you called my initial statement a fairy tale, and then said that "more than a half is a pure promoter's profit" which, because it is about contractual division of revenues, requires inside info to support it. You can't simply dismiss someone's argument if you can't back up your own. I am not disagreeing that there is a lot of profit involved somewhere. My initial statement - which you took issue with - is that the VAST majority of that profit goes to the band and not the promoter. The amount of guarantee that the band is able to squeeze out of promoters is remarkable. This is based on what I know about Stones contracts (which I will acknowledge is very very little, but it is something).

Anyway, I won't say any more on this, and I don't want anyone on the board to feel attacked. I am more interested in preparing for the upcoming tour. But I am also professionally interested in the pricing and ticketing arrangements of Stones shows, which is why I sometimes contribute to discussions about them.

best

syrel

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grzegorz67

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jackflash27

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zgredzik
Some people are Polish people - fans on Internet, but fan who writes something in Internet can be troll or president or from media.

Well, based on how fast this show sold out, it would be quite 'safe' to do a second show in Warsaw. Looks like the Polish people are more hungry for tickets than the English people in the homeland of the boys, which is a bit surprising. Who knows?

England has 4 shows on sale and all in bigger venues than the PGE Narodowy. England has 52/53 million people and Poland 38 million.

All true. But the speed in which Warsaw was sold out, is quite remarkable.
I just did expect the UK shows would sell out quicker (in spite of the huge stadiums and amount of shows). The UK is their homeland and I'm sure there's lots of fans out there, but it also seems that other large parts of the population don't care that much.
I think that a relative small country as the Netherlands with 16 million people (where I live) would sell out 4 shows pretty easy.

Yeah, syrel, absolutely, I am also not into emotional discussions especially about a subject that you know little about and I know next to nothing.

Just want to clarify, that my original post was absolutely not meant to undemine your opinion, it was more like - don't believe everything you hear - since there is obviously a lot of fairytales that people are expected or even forced to believe - I mean in life generally. Re-reading your post now, I can see that you really stated that as your opinion and not as something you heard, so I understand you took it that way - I apologize for that - it is a problem with internet discussions, if we were discussing this face to face, we would never come to an argument.

Just one last thing - eventhough the money The Stones take are obscene, I think it is absolutely right if most of the money goes to them. The promoters and all people around are necessary of course, such things would not be possible without many people involved and everybody should get a fair share, but in the end, it is The Stones that create the value people are buying. I think it should be like that with everything, that people who create values should get paid first above all and not sellers and re-sellers, which is a common practice. Anyway, this is just a very general thing and again - only my opinion of course. But I don't expect us do disaggree on this one



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 11:53 by Happy24.

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jackflash27

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grzegorz67

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jackflash27

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zgredzik
Some people are Polish people - fans on Internet, but fan who writes something in Internet can be troll or president or from media.

Well, based on how fast this show sold out, it would be quite 'safe' to do a second show in Warsaw. Looks like the Polish people are more hungry for tickets than the English people in the homeland of the boys, which is a bit surprising. Who knows?

England has 4 shows on sale and all in bigger venues than the PGE Narodowy. England has 52/53 million people and Poland 38 million.

All true. But the speed in which Warsaw was sold out, is quite remarkable.
I just did expect the UK shows would sell out quicker (in spite of the huge stadiums and amount of shows). The UK is their homeland and I'm sure there's lots of fans out there, but it also seems that other large parts of the population don't care that much.
I think that a relative small country as the Netherlands with 16 million people (where I live) would sell out 4 shows pretty easy.

Yeap, just look at how Stockholm or Copenhagen was selling the last year - absolutely no problem to get tickets pretty much in all cathegories, even Pit was easy to get and it was cheaper than this year in Warshaw. I can't see any logic in that, except that the demand in Poland is much higher and people just want to see The Stones no matter what.
I really can not guess how Prague will sell - common sense tells me that with those prices it will sell slowly, but I can imagine it will be just as with Warshaw. I am really confused, it is absolutely unpredictable.

But they finally fill the stadiums, even by these ticket prices. Almost everywhere...

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Happy24

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jackflash27

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grzegorz67

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jackflash27

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zgredzik
Some people are Polish people - fans on Internet, but fan who writes something in Internet can be troll or president or from media.

Well, based on how fast this show sold out, it would be quite 'safe' to do a second show in Warsaw. Looks like the Polish people are more hungry for tickets than the English people in the homeland of the boys, which is a bit surprising. Who knows?

England has 4 shows on sale and all in bigger venues than the PGE Narodowy. England has 52/53 million people and Poland 38 million.

All true. But the speed in which Warsaw was sold out, is quite remarkable.
I just did expect the UK shows would sell out quicker (in spite of the huge stadiums and amount of shows). The UK is their homeland and I'm sure there's lots of fans out there, but it also seems that other large parts of the population don't care that much.
I think that a relative small country as the Netherlands with 16 million people (where I live) would sell out 4 shows pretty easy.

Yeap, just look at how Stockholm or Copenhagen was selling the last year - absolutely no problem to get tickets pretty much in all cathegories, even Pit was easy to get and it was cheaper than this year in Warshaw. I can't see any logic in that, except that the demand in Poland is much higher and people just want to see The Stones no matter what.
I really can not guess how Prague will sell - common sense tells me that with those prices it will sell slowly, but I can imagine it will be just as with Warshaw. I am really confused, it is absolutely unpredictable.

Personally I don't think any show is sold out yet; all big venues and tickets will be put 'regulated' on the market. There's indeed a high demand for the Warsaw show because tickets are relative cheap and it's the last show of this tour but Im sure there will be plenty available in the next few weeks...


Hendrik Mulder

Exactly Hendrik. People always want what they can't get. Stating a sellout is a pure marketing plot atm.

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MisterDDDD

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angee
I'm gonna have to try the Twitter contact too, checked wrong address box on the ticket.

I would think they'd have all the "important information" such as our address in our profile, no?

In the same boat, angee.
I am also assuming the account info stored will be used, have tix for four shows with a mixture of Lucky Dips and GC.. including a *single LD for Manchester.
Gonna wait for the dust to settle a bit more and try to contact to switch all to will call..

Got another answer from AXS support:


I am very sorry to hear that you didn't get through to our booking line. We understand the frustration and apologise for any inconvenience.

Unfortunately our lines have been and are extremely busy due to a high demand for numerous events on sale. All our operators are doing their very best to answer all calls as quickly and efficiently as possible, so please try again.

We truly appreciate your patience, but we will need you to call us to have the address changed. We're usually not as busy during the evenings, and would recommend you to call us around 6-8 pm.

So, will try again..

UPD: Finally got it! 31 min on the line!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-03-07 13:38 by longvehicle.

Reply received from AXS after I enquired about the default shipping to UK with signed receipt (my tix weren’t VIP actually):

“Your VIP tickets will be changed to box office collection closer to the day of the event, and you'll receive an email to confirm this.

You will need to bring the order confirmation along with a photo ID to collect your tickets on the day of the event.”

I don’t know if this will be do automatically for all affected, but at least it’s helpful to know they won’t just cancel the tix.

No word on refunding postage though!

Is anyone else wondering whether the 2nd Manchester show may actually not happen? When it was on the rumoured list I thought it was a gimme, but the longer this goes on the less confident I am. The fact that the band's twitter feed sent out a message specifically about Manchester last night makes me wonder if it's not selling as well as expected (of course, it could just be to mop up a few 'undecideds' before announcing the next show).

syrel

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syrel
Is anyone else wondering whether the 2nd Manchester show may actually not happen? When it was on the rumoured list I thought it was a gimme, but the longer this goes on the less confident I am. The fact that the band's twitter feed sent out a message specifically about Manchester last night makes me wonder if it's not selling as well as expected (of course, it could just be to mop up a few 'undecideds' before announcing the next show).

syrel

I'd be amazed. From my experience bands only announce an additional date when the first one sells out rapid. The 5th June show hasn't.

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syrel
Is anyone else wondering whether the 2nd Manchester show may actually not happen? When it was on the rumoured list I thought it was a gimme, but the longer this goes on the less confident I am. The fact that the band's twitter feed sent out a message specifically about Manchester last night makes me wonder if it's not selling as well as expected (of course, it could just be to mop up a few 'undecideds' before announcing the next show).

syrel

Still believe it will be.
While it's on the list here - [iorr.org] - there's a hope.

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scoreboardpaddock

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syrel
Is anyone else wondering whether the 2nd Manchester show may actually not happen? When it was on the rumoured list I thought it was a gimme, but the longer this goes on the less confident I am. The fact that the band's twitter feed sent out a message specifically about Manchester last night makes me wonder if it's not selling as well as expected (of course, it could just be to mop up a few 'undecideds' before announcing the next show).

syrel

I'd be amazed. From my experience bands only announce an additional date when the first one sells out rapid. The 5th June show hasn't.

I think that's a bit more the old school model (all tickets more reasonably priced and pretty much priced the same), whereas now promoters (at least at this level of pricing) play more of a long game; but I did think (as happened with the London show), that it would be used as a form of opening week promotion (ie 'these are hot tickets'). The fact that that hasn't happened is making me wonder. I also wonder if weak Cardiff sales are having an impact.

syrel

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syrel
Is anyone else wondering whether the 2nd Manchester show may actually not happen? When it was on the rumoured list I thought it was a gimme, but the longer this goes on the less confident I am. The fact that the band's twitter feed sent out a message specifically about Manchester last night makes me wonder if it's not selling as well as expected (of course, it could just be to mop up a few 'undecideds' before announcing the next show).

syrel

8 out of the 13 sections are available. The other day only 2 sections were available, but I have looked at AMEX presale and most of them have gone since the other day. So they are just moving them around from different selling channels. If the Stones had mentioned in that last Facebook/twitter post that they had released extra GA tix they would probably move them.

My conclusion is : given the slow sales of Cardiff if the remaining Manc tickets don't sell by weekend there will not be a 2nd show.

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syrel
Is anyone else wondering whether the 2nd Manchester show may actually not happen? When it was on the rumoured list I thought it was a gimme, but the longer this goes on the less confident I am. The fact that the band's twitter feed sent out a message specifically about Manchester last night makes me wonder if it's not selling as well as expected (of course, it could just be to mop up a few 'undecideds' before announcing the next show).

syrel

I am beginning to wonder whether it will happen or not as well syrel.
It does make sense that there would be a push for the first show right before they announce the second tho. It also would seem to me that if they already decided to not go with the second show, there would be no push this early in the process.

well, as I mentioned before: When the rumors of the UK tour came up I had the feeling that there might be too many shows in the UK. To sell out all these shows 1 in 165 Britons has to buy a ticket…

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slewan
well, as I mentioned before: When the rumors of the UK tour came up I had the feeling that there might be too many shows in the UK. To sell out all these shows 1 in 165 Britons has to buy a ticket…

Yes, and I didn't agree (though not sure I posted that) because The Stones Always Find A Way, but am now beginning to wonder. Though I do think that if they don't sell, it's more a reflection of incorrect pricing rather than absent demand.

syrel

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slewan
well, as I mentioned before: When the rumors of the UK tour came up I had the feeling that there might be too many shows in the UK. To sell out all these shows 1 in 165 Britons has to buy a ticket…

it's not just the British who come!!