If it's anything: I'm epileptic, and two years' back I had three seizures in one day, down to the Norovirus flushing my pills out.

Anyway, I had one seizure on hard ground, and gave myself, as a by-product, a sub-dural haeamatoma. Like Keith, and according to my neurologist, I was lucky that it wasn't worse.

I was back to work in three weeks, and thought nothing of it. However, in the last few weeks I've decided to learn piano, and am finding that the instructions from the left side of the brain to my right hand side are considerably slower than the left hand side: it's also the same when I work out, and when I go for swimming classes. It's as if things take a bit longer to wake up on one side of the body, which may explain things for the Riffmaster.

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tomcasagranda
If it's anything: I'm epileptic, and two years' back I had three seizures in one day, down to the Norovirus flushing my pills out.

Anyway, I had one seizure on hard ground, and gave myself, as a by-product, a sub-dural haeamatoma. Like Keith, and according to my neurologist, I was lucky that it wasn't worse.

I was back to work in three weeks, and thought nothing of it. However, in the last few weeks I've decided to learn piano, and am finding that the instructions from the left side of the brain to my right hand side are considerably slower than the left hand side: it's also the same when I work out, and when I go for swimming classes. It's as if things take a bit longer to wake up on one side of the body, which may explain things for the Riffmaster.

Absolutely, Keith was never the same after the head injury, Keith's brain actually turned inside his skull from the pressure of the brain bleed.
It was far more serious than people think. He takes anti seizure medication for the rest of his life that can cause brain freeze, like when he forgot how to play Happy in Mexico.
The medication also has a devastating effect on the liver.
Keith is lucky to still be here, not sure he should be doing this line of work now, but obviously many are pleased that he is.
I hope that these last 9 shows are the last for many reasons.

For anyone thinking the Stones are as good as ever, i urge them to watch this clip. Mick and Keith in all their glory, amazing vocal from Mick and solo from Keith.
[www.youtube.com]

Yes Keith has a few problems playing live these days, perhaps it's a hearing problem or a neurological problem in the timing from what he hears to translate to his fingers, which themselves are not as nible as they used to be, or sensory overload with all the stuff happening on a Stones stage BUT....

If you listen to keith playing by himself, noodling around, playing acoustic numbers, recording in the studio,etc....HE STILL HAS IT GOING ON. His note selection, phrasing and just plain soul are alive and well, matured like an old wine, and in my mind that qualifies him as a great guitar player still. Guitar playing is more than playing tightly or even accurately with a band, IMO. The ability to just pick up an axe and play a couple hundred songs from memory certainly qualifies as "good guitar player".

Perhaps it is because Keith has doubled down so many times on the "playing with a band" and "if you can't play it live, it ain't real" and all that line of hubris that it is so easy to judge him from that perspective.

These days I'd prefer to hear him playing acoustic sets with just Mick or some other collaborator, no drums or bass, just an intimate gig where the feel and soulfulness shines through technical mistakes, etc.

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stone4ever
Agree powerage78, i get a whiff of BS in the air.

Keith either did it on purpose, or something is very wrong for him to forget the song vote.

I'm probably going to regret responding to this, but let's try and reason anyway. Of course Keith has declined. I'm the one who argued that the Youtube videos that show a good performance (like "Rocks Off" in Barcelona) also show his bad performances.

Is Keith the one of the four who seems weakest? Yes. Is that something you can easily replace or fix? Not really. I very much doubt they can legally or would even consider performing without him. That said, he could easily turn the solos over to Ronnie. Taylor did many of the solos when he was in the band and Ronnie on his first couple tours with them. I wouldn't object to that at all. I suspect it is the right decision to let Keith worry about most of the intros and just concentrate on rhythm guitar thereafter. I doubt Keith agrees, though. For better or worse, this is the role they slotted him in starting in 1989 and they seem reluctant to mess with it.

Now whether or not it's worth paying a ticket price is up to the individual. Personally, I was outpriced after 2002. My choice. I still follow them. My remark was that I think our collective focus on Keith's decline is likely exaggerated. He's spotty, yes, but not so bad he's turning shows into trainwrecks. Yes, he was pretty bad the first couple weeks, but he's definitely improved. I suspect it's the arthritis and his fingers simply would not cooperate with his brain. I don't know that. I look at the video of him pointing to his hands as if he's trying to explain he knew what to do, but couldn't play. Just my speculation.

As for the "Rocks Off" opening last night, I suspect it was premature ejaculation. He played just fine, it was a good version. When Mick came over by Ronnie and Keith, you see Keith smiling to them both. I suspect he felt a bit stupid. He's probably more than a bit on edge knowing everyone is watching to see if he can even start the song properly and he just shot his wad too soon.

Pardon the vulgar comparisons, it's the nature of the beast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-28 21:52 by Rocky Dijon.

I think Keith looks good. He definitely has the strength of ten good men. That guy is rugged. IMHO The whole thing with this tour, including the squiggly tongue logo and the name "No Filter" just means they're gonna throw everything out there, warts and all, so take it in stride, take it as it is.

These guys have all been through a lot. I love the Stones like many people do here. So let's not slag them off too badly on the internet. Long Live The Stones! And it isn't even tomorrow yet.. what am I doing here.. have a nice day again everyone!

And maybe later we can talk about trading me for Doxa and Long Branch. ..Then I can really leave the site! As I said, do Not beg me to stay!

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The prerequisite for that to be true is that you are right and that the fans at the shows don't really enjoy what they see and hear.

I reckon you can see how arrogant that appears?

I was replying to Bjorns post, but you seemed to have overlooked all that.

You can pick at and edit my posts as you see fit, but I did say "there seems to be" which means that it's not stated as a fact - it's just an impression one gets.
And I followed that with "but there's also some who seem to genuinely like what they're hearing - can't really criticize them for that"....so what's your problem?
By zeroing in on one sentence, you've taken it all out of context, but if that's what you want to focus on then so be it.
And to be clear, I wasn't referring only to people at the shows who I'm sure there are many who enjoy what they're experiencing after investing so much time, money, etc.,
but also some of the people in this thread who weren't there.

The only arrogance I see around here is from someone whose constantly correcting others regarding their opinions about what they like or don't like.

__________________________________________________________________

edit: But never mind all that Dandelion - don't want to get in to a personal piss match with you. Enjoy the tour and whatever other shows you might be attending as I'm sure you will.

You're hinting about people being in denial, no?

There's a a difference between saying someone is in actual denial vs. saying some of what's been posted leaves the impression of being in denial.
Yet for some reason you decided to pick out one sentence from a reply I made to Bjorn, taking it out of context, and then call me arrogant for it.

It seems there might be some who don't want to face the facts regarding the decline in Keith's playing.
Just an impression I'm getting when reading some of the comments from those who were there, as well as some who were not. When you read someone saying "better than ever" surely that's questionable.
Just as you would disagreee with someone who says it's the worst ever...you've spent the last couple of weeks constantly trying to prove them and their opinions wrong. So why the double standards all of the sudden?

It's hilarious that you even bother trying to talk you out of this

And please point me to the "best ever"-posts.

And I haven't tried to prove anyone wrong, merely advocating my view.

Now I know that your view is that you have an impression of fans being in denial, like Bjorn.

From what I can read you are cherry picking parts of my posts as well. No mentioning of where I analyse what goes wrong with Keith's solos, mistakes etc.

Even Bjorn, who doesn't like the Stones anymore, noticed me pointing out Keith playing out of key also in Zurich. A solo which was appreciated my lots of posters.

Double standards? Nope, just you being arrogant again. Why?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-28 21:56 by DandelionPowderman.

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Naturalust
Yes Keith has a few problems playing live these days, perhaps it's a hearing problem or a neurological problem in the timing from what he hears to translate to his fingers, which themselves are not as nible as they used to be, or sensory overload with all the stuff happening on a Stones stage BUT....

If you listen to keith playing by himself, noodling around, playing acoustic numbers, recording in the studio,etc....HE STILL HAS IT GOING ON. His note selection, phrasing and just plain soul are alive and well, matured like an old wine, and in my mind that qualifies him as a great guitar player still. Guitar playing is more than playing tightly or even accurately with a band, IMO. The ability to just pick up an axe and play a couple hundred songs from memory certainly qualifies as "good guitar player".

Perhaps it is because Keith has doubled down so many times on the "playing with a band" and "if you can't play it live, it ain't real" and all that line of hubris that it is so easy to judge him from that perspective.

These days I'd prefer to hear him playing acoustic sets with just Mick or some other collaborator, no drums or bass, just an intimate gig where the feel and soulfulness shines through technical mistakes, etc.

Hey Tod , its me, Riffy, i was just thinking about you and there you was, great to hear from you my friend.

Agree with all above, like when he sang Slipping Away last night, the vocal the timing the second solo , he still had it in abundance.

Socrates, know thyself. The Long Branch was GUNSMOKE. LongBeach is our departed comrade. Doxa comes and goes. I suspect that wave will roll into the shore again. He's too erudite to stay in exile forever. Here's hoping LongBeach is safe and sound when the tide goes out again. He was a great deal of fun.

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Naturalust
Yes Keith has a few problems playing live these days, perhaps it's a hearing problem or a neurological problem in the timing from what he hears to translate to his fingers, which themselves are not as nible as they used to be, or sensory overload with all the stuff happening on a Stones stage BUT....

If you listen to keith playing by himself, noodling around, playing acoustic numbers, recording in the studio,etc....HE STILL HAS IT GOING ON. His note selection, phrasing and just plain soul are alive and well, matured like an old wine, and in my mind that qualifies him as a great guitar player still. Guitar playing is more than playing tightly or even accurately with a band, IMO. The ability to just pick up an axe and play a couple hundred songs from memory certainly qualifies as "good guitar player".

That is right. Why compare with recordings from 25 years ago. Is it different? In some ways yes. Is it rock and roll still? Absolutely. Is it good to hear and watch? 95 per cent of the time, yes. Do the Stones the best they can now? Yes. Where is the problem ?

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stone4ever
Agree powerage78, i get a whiff of BS in the air.

Keith either did it on purpose, or something is very wrong for him to forget the song vote.

I'm probably going to regret responding to this, but let's try and reason anyway. Of course Keith has declined. I'm the one who argued that the Youtube videos that show a good performance (like "Rocks Off" in Barcelona) also show his bad performances.

Is Keith the one of the four who seems weakest? Yes. Is that something you can easily replace or fix? Not really. I very much doubt they can legally or would even consider performing without him. That said, he could easily turn the solos over to Ronnie. Taylor did many of the solos when he was in the band and Ronnie on his first couple tours with them. I wouldn't object to that at all. I suspect it is the right decision to let Keith worry about most of the intros and just concentrate on rhythm guitar thereafter. I doubt Keith agrees, though. For better or worse, this is the role they slotted him in starting in 1989 and they seem reluctant to mess with it.

Now whether or not it's worth paying a ticket price is up to the individual. Personally, I was outpriced after 2002. My choice. I still follow them. My remark was that I think our collective focus on Keith's decline is likely exaggerated. He's spotty, yes, but not so bad he's turning shows into trainwrecks. Yes, he was pretty bad the first couple weeks, but he's definitely improved. I suspect it's the arthritis and his fingers simply would not cooperate with his brain. I don't know that. I look at the video of him pointing to his hands as if he's trying to explain he knew what to do, but couldn't play. Just my speculation.

As for the "Rocks Off" opening last night, I suspect it was premature ejaculation. He played just fine, it was a good version. When Mick came over by Ronnie and Keith, you see Keith smiling to them both. I suspect he felt a bit stupid. He's probably more than a bit on edge knowing everyone is watching to see if he can even start the song properly and he just shot his wad too soon.

Pardon the vulgar comparisons, it's the nature of the beast.

Your cool Rocky, a lot of sence in your post and i agree with most of it

And welcome back Naturalust! Cool Rocky, I thought Doxa had flipped everybody off or something...

We were both thinking Rocky was cool at the same time..

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The prerequisite for that to be true is that you are right and that the fans at the shows don't really enjoy what they see and hear.

I reckon you can see how arrogant that appears?

I was replying to Bjorns post, but you seemed to have overlooked all that.

You can pick at and edit my posts as you see fit, but I did say "there seems to be" which means that it's not stated as a fact - it's just an impression one gets.
And I followed that with "but there's also some who seem to genuinely like what they're hearing - can't really criticize them for that"....so what's your problem?
By zeroing in on one sentence, you've taken it all out of context, but if that's what you want to focus on then so be it.
And to be clear, I wasn't referring only to people at the shows who I'm sure there are many who enjoy what they're experiencing after investing so much time, money, etc.,
but also some of the people in this thread who weren't there.

The only arrogance I see around here is from someone whose constantly correcting others regarding their opinions about what they like or don't like.

__________________________________________________________________

edit: But never mind all that Dandelion - don't want to get in to a personal piss match with you. Enjoy the tour and whatever other shows you might be attending as I'm sure you will.

You're hinting about people being in denial, no?

There's a a difference between saying someone is in actual denial vs. saying some of what's been posted leaves the impression of being in denial.
Yet for some reason you decided to pick out one sentence from a reply I made to Bjorn, taking it out of context, and then call me arrogant for it.

It seems there might be some who don't want to face the facts regarding the decline in Keith's playing.
Just an impression I'm getting when reading some of the comments from those who were there, as well as some who were not. When you read someone saying "better than ever" surely that's questionable.
Just as you would disagreee with someone who says it's the worst ever...you've spent the last couple of weeks constantly trying to prove them and their opinions wrong. So why the double standards all of the sudden?

It's hilarious that you even bother trying to talk you out of this

And please point me to the "best ever"-posts.

And I haven't tried to prove anyone wrong, merely advocating my view.

Now I know that your view is that you have an impression of fans being in denial, like Bjorn.

From what I can read you are cherry picking parts of my posts as well. No mentioning of where I analyse what goes wrong with Keith's solos, mistakes etc.

Even Bjorn, who doesn't like the Stones anymore, noticed me pointing out Keith playing out of key also in Zurich. A solo which was appreciated my lots of posters.

Double standards? Nope, just you being arrogant again. Why?

The sarcasm, arrogance, and condescening tone from your own post drips with nastiness - why?
Not sure why you can get so defensive about what others think about the Stones, or that some have an impression that some of the fans might be unrealistically sugarcoating everything.
Enjoy the tour, and keep up the advocacy...sometimes you almost sound convincing, although most of the time it comes across as holier than thou. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were a paid employee!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

No, now you two don't fight now. You're both nice guys. This damned internet. . ..

When did he give his last TV interview ? Thanks.

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Got my idea.
I think about a musician I love we will never see again on stage.
I do not want to be defaming, then... silence.
But yes, I think it's that.
At what stage ?

So how come he is quicker than you and me in interviews?

Exactly , DP you are so right Keef has one of the fastest working minds ever ,I am sure it also helps that he has been asked everything multiple times and has seen and heard it all before .

Yes i agree, nothing wrong with Keith's mind, as sharp as ever, as seen in his recent BBC documentary about London post WW11. Keith's memory and humour was astounding.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-28 22:22 by powerage78.

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Equating the price paid, including airfare etc., with the performance is a non-starter for me in the overall critique of a Rolling Stones concert (or any music really). Sure, it's a factor to you personally, but it's a non-factor in an honest review of the performance.

Additionally, these are still The Rolling (*u#@ing) Stones!!
While they are showing signs of age etc., they put on an amazing performance despite it. A big part of the shows has always been the vibe, the spectacle, the camaraderie , the stage, the crowd, the.. etc. They still bring all that, and still some amazing performances despite the flaws.

I go to a show PRIMARILY for the music. The SHOW is a bonus. Keith's "contributions" to the No Filter shows, to date, are woeful.

Let me ask Keith-supporters, and I applaud those who can support him thru this period, I wish I could, IF Mick Jagger was forgetting lyrics, humming or whistling instead of singing, or just standing there smiling goofily,in other words, stuffing up completely, like Keith unfortunately IS, would you say the band was still giving a great show? Value for premium monies they charge?

Yes, of course I'd still have a great time. Rock'n' Roll, fun, the Rolling Stones
in 2017. I bitch about overpriced subpar healthcare, I never bitch about what I pay for something I love.

I'm like that about food and good wine.

Yes. I'd go to Pizzeria Di Matteo in Napoli Italy before I'd eat the rubber pancakes here in the States.
And Etna Rosso vino.

>>And Etna Rosso vino.<<

delicious wine... cheers! @ MKjan

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powerage78
When did he give his last TV interview ? Thanks.

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powerage78
Got my idea.
I think about a musician I love we will never see again on stage.
I do not want to be defaming, then... silence.
But yes, I think it's that.
At what stage ?

So how come he is quicker than you and me in interviews?

Exactly , DP you are so right Keef has one of the fastest working minds ever ,I am sure it also helps that he has been asked everything multiple times and has seen and heard it all before .

Yes i agree, nothing wrong with Keith's mind, as sharp as ever, as seen in his recent BBC documentary about London post WW11. Keith's memory and humour was astounding.

Not sure. This one was after B & L.

[youtu.be]

I don’t know about Keith, but Charlie’s snare sounds crackin’ in those clips.

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powerage78
When did he give his last TV interview ? Thanks.

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stone4ever

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TheGreek

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powerage78
Got my idea.
I think about a musician I love we will never see again on stage.
I do not want to be defaming, then... silence.
But yes, I think it's that.
At what stage ?

So how come he is quicker than you and me in interviews?

Exactly , DP you are so right Keef has one of the fastest working minds ever ,I am sure it also helps that he has been asked everything multiple times and has seen and heard it all before .

Yes i agree, nothing wrong with Keith's mind, as sharp as ever, as seen in his recent BBC documentary about London post WW11. Keith's memory and humour was astounding.

It was called The Origin Of The Species, Its not on you tube, it was 2016, keith was in fine form.

Summer 2016.
Thanks.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

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powerage78
Summer 2016.
Thanks.

Found it powerage78

[www.youtube.com]

I didn't mean "take it in stride" to actually mean "take it in stride." I don't know why I put that in there. The music sounds good, even from my complaint seat on the internet. I really believe Zurich could be an official vault release. And that's what's so baffling to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-28 23:59 by Socrates1.

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Summer 2016.
Thanks.

Found it powerage78

[www.youtube.com]

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

I've been listening to Blue & Lonesome lately. Of course it hearkens back to their earliest recordings. The difference is of course that the bass means nothing now and Brian's old role is played by Keith. Ronnie does all the heavy lifting as far as guitar goes (like Keith did), and Keith, in a reduced role, now plays the little rhythm fills (like Brian did). Mick plays a haunting harmonica (like Brian did before). The best thing is that it's slowed down enough that Charlie can still excel, which he does on Blue & Lonesome. The glory days are gone and the band plays on.

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duke richardson
>>And Etna Rosso vino.<<

delicious wine... cheers! @ MKjan

Si, grazie and cheers to you.

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24FPS
I've been listening to Blue & Lonesome lately. Of course it hearkens back to their earliest recordings. The difference is of course that the bass means nothing now and Brian's old role is played by Keith. Ronnie does all the heavy lifting as far as guitar goes (like Keith did), and Keith, in a reduced role, now plays the little rhythm fills (like Brian did). Mick plays a haunting harmonica (like Brian did before). The best thing is that it's slowed down enough that Charlie can still excel, which he does on Blue & Lonesome. The glory days are gone and the band plays on.

Well Brian actually had a very leading role on the blues numbers.

Just as always Keith fcks up, he always has but to me that's part of the mans charm. Part of the whole bands charm. If you're after virtuoso playing then you came to see the wrong band. I'd not have them any other way. Long live The Rolling Stones

What bothers me is not Keef it's the slow tempos. Playing this slow takes out ALL energy from the songs, even last years the tempos were faster how are they reasoning? Especially IORR is practically unlistenable played this slow when the groove is missing. I guess in the end Keith is in charge of the tempos since he plays the intros regardless of what is printed in Chuck's papers. And if Charlie's endurance is the issue then shorten the concert instead of slowing down the songs.

Listening to "Rocks Off" in Barcelona was almost as bad as listening to a busted chainsaw outside your bedroom window at 3 AM. Almost every part KR played was severely flawed from the get-go. The into was almost as bad as the intro to Beast of Burden a few nights ago.This is far from a hard song to play. Just being honest.