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stanlove

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keithsman

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His Majesty
In time I am sure this will get round to The Rolling Stones and other 60's and 70's bands in a more legacy damaging way.

There's plenty to crucify them about and much of it is not exactly hidden.

Regardless...

I love The Rolling Stones.

That's my worry, we are getting to a time where anything deemed incorrect will be censored, i can see a day in the not too distant future where it will be wrong for anyone to play this music based on the morel high ground of the likes of twitter facebook and Instagram.
We already have Mick changing the lyrics on certain songs, i wonder where it all ends up, the Stones are sexist sort of thing so must be censored etc etc.

People need to step up. Once again a small minority of loud lefties run things and decide what others can watch. The right wing needs a spokesman that we all stand behind. Boycott anyone that caters to the left wing mob. That will end this crap.

Fully agree.

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Cooltoplady

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keithsman

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keefriff99

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keithsman
I wonder why Bill gets the rap and not Mick and Ronnie, it's like Bill is out on his own now, he doesn't get that comfort bubble of the Stones organisation.

What exactly did Mick too?

We're not talking about hazy rumors of under-aged groupies in the '60s and '70s. We're talking about a documented case of a 47 year old man ill-advisedly dating a 13 year old girl.

13 ?? she wasn't 13 was she.

I don't care he was a Rolling Stone. He's a sick pedophile that should of been locked up.

No he isnt.

Jealous dobbers …..



ROCKMAN

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Redhotcarpet

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stanlove

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keithsman

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His Majesty
In time I am sure this will get round to The Rolling Stones and other 60's and 70's bands in a more legacy damaging way.

There's plenty to crucify them about and much of it is not exactly hidden.

Regardless...

I love The Rolling Stones.

That's my worry, we are getting to a time where anything deemed incorrect will be censored, i can see a day in the not too distant future where it will be wrong for anyone to play this music based on the morel high ground of the likes of twitter facebook and Instagram.
We already have Mick changing the lyrics on certain songs, i wonder where it all ends up, the Stones are sexist sort of thing so must be censored etc etc.

People need to step up. Once again a small minority of loud lefties run things and decide what others can watch. The right wing needs a spokesman that we all stand behind. Boycott anyone that caters to the left wing mob. That will end this crap.

Fully agree.

Yes fully agree.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 22:59 by keithsman.

No wonder women have felt intimidated into keeping silent about their experiences all these years. When the balance begins to be redressed even a smidgen, men come out of the woodwork to demand their superiority back.

On another note, the role of Mandy Smith's mother in that little episode shouldn't be ignored, given the amount of enabling she did. (See, before anyone suggests it--I'm not saying women = good, men = bad.)

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35love

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stanlove

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35love
It is not hysterical to put an end to active predatory child abusers, or sexual abusers in the work force,
out of business and out of action.
That is not left, right, male or female,
it is the law.

If you find out that Wyman is an ACTIVE in any of this I would agree. That is not what is happening here and you know it. I don't even know why you posted that to be honest.

Wyman did it during a different period when things were different. Yes it is the left who is trying to destroy anyone who ever did something they don't approve of and I believe you now that also.

If someone wanted to skip Wyman's film because of it I would understand but like usualy that is not what is going on here., They ( the mob ) has once again decided what others should watch.

* I find you inflammatory, and earlier troll statements ‘hysterical metoo’ or
‘it’s a left political’ no it’s a ‘right political’

I have stated here, and elsewhere Bill Wyman topics get deterred, which is sadly too often on a Rolling Stones fan board,
that I look at case by case before I offer my opinion
and repeated
‘I stand up for Bill Wyman’
and my thoughts behind why,
although I loathe this topic,
and the paid or non paid shrilly posters that come with it.

I am a law abiding citizen who pays taxes to live in a law abiding place best we can.

Right on target.

If you loathe the topic and posters that comment on that topic then stay off the thread. Kind of like if people don't want to watch Wyman's project should stay away from it and let others decide. Pretty simple really.

Not sure what the law abiding citizen statement is getting at.

By this token i actually think this is the beginning of the end, so because Bill was a dirty old man, freedom to watch and listen to anything the Stones have ever done comes into jeopardy.

The world of 1960's pop stars...

[youtu.be]

Let's not kid ourselves that the stones were in anyway careful about how they proceeded through those times.

A Rolling Stone gets controversy. How was that hurt the product in the past?

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stanlove

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35love

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stanlove

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35love
It is not hysterical to put an end to active predatory child abusers, or sexual abusers in the work force,
out of business and out of action.
That is not left, right, male or female,
it is the law.

If you find out that Wyman is an ACTIVE in any of this I would agree. That is not what is happening here and you know it. I don't even know why you posted that to be honest.

Wyman did it during a different period when things were different. Yes it is the left who is trying to destroy anyone who ever did something they don't approve of and I believe you now that also.

If someone wanted to skip Wyman's film because of it I would understand but like usualy that is not what is going on here., They ( the mob ) has once again decided what others should watch.

* I find you inflammatory, and earlier troll statements ‘hysterical metoo’ or
‘it’s a left political’ no it’s a ‘right political’

I have stated here, and elsewhere Bill Wyman topics get deterred, which is sadly too often on a Rolling Stones fan board,
that I look at case by case before I offer my opinion
and repeated
‘I stand up for Bill Wyman’
and my thoughts behind why,
although I loathe this topic,
and the paid or non paid shrilly posters that come with it.

I am a law abiding citizen who pays taxes to live in a law abiding place best we can.

Right on target.

If you loathe the topic and posters that comment on that topic then stay off the thread. Kind of like if people don't want to watch Wyman's project should stay away from it and let others decide. Pretty simple really.

Not sure what the law abiding citizen statement is getting at.

I have been waiting for this release / high interest in it.
You quoted me, I responded.
Laws= taking politics and personal morals and experience out of the conversation.
You, it seems, only appear on threads to be —- not sure.

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stanlove

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windmelody
Bill Wyman may have made a mistake decades ago. "Me too" is a hysterical movement. There is no point in trying to find out what happened inside other people's pants in the past.

It was a different time and things need to be looked at like that. For all of history up until the last 20 years or so older men and younger girls did hook up and nobody thought that much about it. Now because society has hanged the loud minority mob wants to destroy people who did things when it was normal for the time. And people put up with it.

It was never normal to knowingly engage in sexual relations with a minor. Certainly, I suspect many are guilty, but it’s the knowing that makes the difference.

Is there a confusion (conflation?) of movements/campaigns here?

Doesn't "metoo" refer to unwanted sexual harassment in (usually) the work place and quasi-social situations?

The problem(s) he had/has were not of that nature.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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stanlove

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keithsman

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His Majesty
In time I am sure this will get round to The Rolling Stones and other 60's and 70's bands in a more legacy damaging way.

There's plenty to crucify them about and much of it is not exactly hidden.

Regardless...

I love The Rolling Stones.

That's my worry, we are getting to a time where anything deemed incorrect will be censored, i can see a day in the not too distant future where it will be wrong for anyone to play this music based on the morel high ground of the likes of twitter facebook and Instagram.
We already have Mick changing the lyrics on certain songs, i wonder where it all ends up, the Stones are sexist sort of thing so must be censored etc etc.

People need to step up. Once again a small minority of loud lefties run things and decide what others can watch. The right wing needs a spokesman that we all stand behind. Boycott anyone that caters to the left wing mob. That will end this crap.

Now, I am a "leftie" myself, but I always thought right-wing politics could be respectable, democratic, and decent. I think there was a time when it was. But it's interesting to see how, on many places, (i.e., the "social media") a certain group of self-acclaimed "right-wing" people have no problem at all in defending things that any decent person (regardless of being left or right) would criticize. I will not give a long list of examples here, but stick to the matter at hand: a man in his fourties starting a sexual relationship with a 13-year old is a pedofile. I don't care if it's Picasso, Charlie Chaplin or Bill Wyman. It's a sick thing. Defending it or turning a blind eye to it, is simply wrong. And I am hoping - indeed - that all the right-wing people on this world will stand up one day and defend a decent point of view on female rights (and in this case: children's rights), as they should and as they once did.

Now, I know I am bordering over the edge of what's allowed on this forum but I am not the one who started dragging politics into this subject. The subject is - I repeat - not political at all but very simple: is it right for a man in his 40s to get physical with a 13 year old girl? The answer should be obvious.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 11:48 by matxil.

Basically all the Stones have flawed characters in one way or another, girls, women, addiction etc. We are all adults here, we all know the life the Stones have led in the past with just a light search on google, and we are aware of the trail of pain they have left in their path over the years, they are not Saints and have never claimed to be.. My point is why single out Bill ( is he just the start of things to come ) and why should anything any of the Stones have done in the past effect our freedom to listen to their music and watch them.
Mandy has never pressed charges over her relationship with Bill, although clearly that relationship has had a negative effect on her life and well being, i'm not condoning Bill's relationship with her, it's completely wrong, but should women in the future press charges or make claims over any of the Stones actions over the years be a reason to sensor their music in any way. That is what is in question, what i am saying is with these sort of social media movements, it's only a matter of time before bands like the Stones will be seen as sexists or a symbolism of abuse to women or whatever, and so as a result the Stones will be deemed unacceptable and therefor their music is unacceptable and that could result in a blanket ban on them. Don't laugh, i can see this happening in the future the way things are going.

Seems like Nabokov's "Lolita" has had a huge impact on Western culture though. And still has.

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Big Al

It was never no
rmal to knowingly engage in sexual relations with a minor. Certainly, I suspect many are guilty, but it’s the knowing that makes the difference.

I'd say it was quite common in pop/rock world.

On occasion 14/15 year olds maybe even being specifically desired. It's there in interviews and songs. The fan base they engaged with has an obvious % of under age girls.

They knew or made a point of not asking.

...

A different thing to what Bill did later though.

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keithsman
it's only a matter of time before bands like the Stones will be seen as sexists or a symbolism of abuse to women or whatever, and so as a result the Stones will be deemed unacceptable and therefor their music is unacceptable and that could result in a blanket ban on them. Don't laugh, i can see this happening in the future the way things are going.

In a way that would actually make them rebellious again.. like in the early days..

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NilsHolgersson

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keithsman
it's only a matter of time before bands like the Stones will be seen as sexists or a symbolism of abuse to women or whatever, and so as a result the Stones will be deemed unacceptable and therefor their music is unacceptable and that could result in a blanket ban on them. Don't laugh, i can see this happening in the future the way things are going.

In a way that would actually make them rebellious again.. like in the early days..

Well yeah there is that

And don't mention Black & Blue. Or Straycat Blues, Little T&A and She's So Young. Or Sweet Little Sixteen and My Ding-A-Ling... Or...

Eventually they'll ban anything suggesting that a woman may once have set foot in a kitchen or done the washing...which she can only have dome because some horrible man made her do it .

And that's because What's always been lacking with the "Me Too" thing is any perspective.

Some folk cross boundaries, and there are always some out and out nasty people...but a lot of it is simply times and attitudes changing .

Judging past behaviours and attitudes by present standards doesn't work...especially in the greyer areas of conduct.

[The questions with Bill of course are a bit different. Under age is not in our society a grey area...and hasn't been for generations.]


And to put me in perspective .

Yes, I'm a sixty year old bloke ...but one who has always believed that women are, by far and away, the superior sex.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 14:54 by Spud.

And what to make of Lori Mattix? Been with Bowie, Page, Keith Moon, etc.

Where were her parents?

Plenty of legal age women around and available for all these guys.

Not saying any of this was right, but it was a different era.

The MeToo movement stands against sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Mandy Smith never made a statement agains Bill AFAIK.
Her mother never filed against Bill.


Bill has not been proven guilty of anything and has not even been judged?
Even if people understandably disagree with what he did in thoses days, I do not understand why his name could be associated to the #metoo movement.

Just to set the record straight:

1) for what we all know, Bill Wyman did NOT have sex with Mandy Smith until she was 14

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

2) age of consent varies from country to country. In Italy it is 14. So if I (50 years old) had sex with a 14 years old girl, I would not commit a crime.


C

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matxil

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stanlove

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keithsman

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His Majesty
In time I am sure this will get round to The Rolling Stones and other 60's and 70's bands in a more legacy damaging way.

There's plenty to crucify them about and much of it is not exactly hidden.

Regardless...

I love The Rolling Stones.

That's my worry, we are getting to a time where anything deemed incorrect will be censored, i can see a day in the not too distant future where it will be wrong for anyone to play this music based on the morel high ground of the likes of twitter facebook and Instagram.
We already have Mick changing the lyrics on certain songs, i wonder where it all ends up, the Stones are sexist sort of thing so must be censored etc etc.

People need to step up. Once again a small minority of loud lefties run things and decide what others can watch. The right wing needs a spokesman that we all stand behind. Boycott anyone that caters to the left wing mob. That will end this crap.

Now, I am a "leftie" myself, but I always thought right-wing politics could be respectable, democratic, and decent. I think there was a time when it was. But it's interesting to see how, on many places, (i.e., the "social media") a certain group of self-acclaimed "right-wing" people have no problem at all in defending things that any decent person (regardless of being left or right) would criticize. I will not give a long list of examples here, but stick to the matter at hand: a man in his fourties starting a sexual relationship with a 13-year old is a pedofile. I don't care if it's Picasso, Charlie Chaplin or Bill Wyman. It's a sick thing. Defending it or turning a blind eye to it, is simply wrong. And I am hoping - indeed - that all the right-wing people on this world will stand up one day and defend a decent point of view on female rights (and in this case: children's rights), as they should and as they once did.

Now, I know I am bordering over the edge of what's allowed on this forum but I am not the one who started dragging politics into this subject. The subject is - I repeat - not political at all but very simple: is it right for a man in his 40s to get physical with a 13 year old girl? The answer should be obvious.

The modern right will defend ANYTHING as long as they think they're "owning the libs".

Their entire movement has devolved into trolling the left. Conservative principles don't even factor in. It doesn't matter what the subject is...as long as they can provoke an outraged response from the left, they feel they've done their jobs (as evidenced by stanlove's angry and erratic posts here). It's quite pathetic.

So yeah, they'll defend grown men sleeping with young teenagers. Real men just take what they want and damn the consequences, don't you know?

Quote
Spud
Eventually they'll ban anything suggesting that a woman may once have set foot in a kitchen or done the washing...which she can only have dome because some horrible man made her do it .

And that's because What's always been lacking with the "Me Too" thing is any perspective.

Some folk cross boundaries, and there are always some out and out nasty people...but a lot of it is simply times and attitudes changing .

Judging past behaviours and attitudes by present standards doesn't work...especially in the greyer areas of conduct.

[The questions with Bill of course are a bit different. Under age is not in our society a grey area...and hasn't been for generations.]

And to put me in perspective .

Yes, I'm a sixty year old bloke ...but one who has always believed that women are, by far and away, the superior sex.

Perfect post Spud, the voice of reason at last.

I get sick of people putting everyone into camps and boxes , you are right wing because you think this , you are left wing because you say that, we are just people with common sense opinions with a good idea of right from wrong.
As a human race we are constantly being divided, first it was race now it's gender, you can see men and women being played against each other to fulfill some sort of elite agenda new world order or what ever you want to call it.
If the 'METOO' movement want to do something useful why don't they look into human trafficking and try to do something towards stopping misery of epidemic proportions.

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keefriff99

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matxil

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stanlove

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keithsman

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His Majesty
In time I am sure this will get round to The Rolling Stones and other 60's and 70's bands in a more legacy damaging way.

There's plenty to crucify them about and much of it is not exactly hidden.

Regardless...

I love The Rolling Stones.

That's my worry, we are getting to a time where anything deemed incorrect will be censored, i can see a day in the not too distant future where it will be wrong for anyone to play this music based on the morel high ground of the likes of twitter facebook and Instagram.
We already have Mick changing the lyrics on certain songs, i wonder where it all ends up, the Stones are sexist sort of thing so must be censored etc etc.

People need to step up. Once again a small minority of loud lefties run things and decide what others can watch. The right wing needs a spokesman that we all stand behind. Boycott anyone that caters to the left wing mob. That will end this crap.

Now, I am a "leftie" myself, but I always thought right-wing politics could be respectable, democratic, and decent. I think there was a time when it was. But it's interesting to see how, on many places, (i.e., the "social media") a certain group of self-acclaimed "right-wing" people have no problem at all in defending things that any decent person (regardless of being left or right) would criticize. I will not give a long list of examples here, but stick to the matter at hand: a man in his fourties starting a sexual relationship with a 13-year old is a pedofile. I don't care if it's Picasso, Charlie Chaplin or Bill Wyman. It's a sick thing. Defending it or turning a blind eye to it, is simply wrong. And I am hoping - indeed - that all the right-wing people on this world will stand up one day and defend a decent point of view on female rights (and in this case: children's rights), as they should and as they once did.

Now, I know I am bordering over the edge of what's allowed on this forum but I am not the one who started dragging politics into this subject. The subject is - I repeat - not political at all but very simple: is it right for a man in his 40s to get physical with a 13 year old girl? The answer should be obvious.

The modern right will defend ANYTHING as long as they think they're "owning the libs".

Their entire movement has devolved into trolling the left. Conservative principles don't even factor in. It doesn't matter what the subject is...as long as they can provoke an outraged response from the left, they feel they've done their jobs (as evidenced by stanlove's angry and erratic posts here). It's quite pathetic.

So yeah, they'll defend grown men sleeping with young teenagers. Real men just take what they want and damn the consequences, don't you know?

Complete crap. You just made some stuff up to try and make a point. When it comes to your ilk I can never decide if you really don't understand things or you do and just kind of lie. Either way it is not very impressive.

Nowhere have I said it was okay for a grown man to have sex with a 13 year old. But here you are basically accusing me of it.

Bill Wyman has never been charged with a crime and I think it should be up to individual people if they want to see this. That was not allowed because a small group of power hungry loudmouths decided that they should have the power to decide. Nobody is forcing anyone to go see it.

I also noticed that you ignored that this happened many years ago when things were different. Everyone knew at the time what was going on with Wyman and Smith and nobody said anything. That should prove to you that things were different. I saw an old movie the other day where two guys in their 40's were talking about having sex with 15 year old's. It was a different time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 17:09 by stanlove.

I guess it was always a risk for Bill Wyman if he put his head above the parapet with memoirs in this era - I’m surprised he wanted to rake over old ground, as he is now so happy with a new family and a more settled life.

As we know, There were several famous rock stars who had a weakness for young girls. Some of my friends (now in their 50s and 60s ) who were in the London scene in their early teens were definitely approached at parties by some very big names. As other posters say,it did not seem a big issue then ( doesn’t make it right , of course).

The difference with Bill is that as well as the Mandy Smith episode ,he did make a bit of a public “thing” about lots of encounters with young girls which others did not. So I can understand the decision the organisers made.

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stanlove

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keefriff99

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matxil

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stanlove

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keithsman

Quote
His Majesty
In time I am sure this will get round to The Rolling Stones and other 60's and 70's bands in a more legacy damaging way.

There's plenty to crucify them about and much of it is not exactly hidden.

Regardless...

I love The Rolling Stones.

That's my worry, we are getting to a time where anything deemed incorrect will be censored, i can see a day in the not too distant future where it will be wrong for anyone to play this music based on the morel high ground of the likes of twitter facebook and Instagram.
We already have Mick changing the lyrics on certain songs, i wonder where it all ends up, the Stones are sexist sort of thing so must be censored etc etc.

People need to step up. Once again a small minority of loud lefties run things and decide what others can watch. The right wing needs a spokesman that we all stand behind. Boycott anyone that caters to the left wing mob. That will end this crap.

Now, I am a "leftie" myself, but I always thought right-wing politics could be respectable, democratic, and decent. I think there was a time when it was. But it's interesting to see how, on many places, (i.e., the "social media") a certain group of self-acclaimed "right-wing" people have no problem at all in defending things that any decent person (regardless of being left or right) would criticize. I will not give a long list of examples here, but stick to the matter at hand: a man in his fourties starting a sexual relationship with a 13-year old is a pedofile. I don't care if it's Picasso, Charlie Chaplin or Bill Wyman. It's a sick thing. Defending it or turning a blind eye to it, is simply wrong. And I am hoping - indeed - that all the right-wing people on this world will stand up one day and defend a decent point of view on female rights (and in this case: children's rights), as they should and as they once did.

Now, I know I am bordering over the edge of what's allowed on this forum but I am not the one who started dragging politics into this subject. The subject is - I repeat - not political at all but very simple: is it right for a man in his 40s to get physical with a 13 year old girl? The answer should be obvious.

The modern right will defend ANYTHING as long as they think they're "owning the libs".

Their entire movement has devolved into trolling the left. Conservative principles don't even factor in. It doesn't matter what the subject is...as long as they can provoke an outraged response from the left, they feel they've done their jobs (as evidenced by stanlove's angry and erratic posts here). It's quite pathetic.

So yeah, they'll defend grown men sleeping with young teenagers. Real men just take what they want and damn the consequences, don't you know?

Complete crap. You just made some stuff up to try and make a point. When it comes to your ilk I can never decide if you really don't understand things or you do and just kind of lie. Either way it is not very impressive.

Nowhere have I said it was okay for a grown man to have sex with a 13 year old. But here you are basically accusing me of it.

Bill Wyman has never been charged with a crime and I think it should be up to individual people if they want to see this. That was not allowed because a small group of power hungry loudmouths decided that they should have the power to decide. Nobody is forcing anyone to go see it.

I also noticed that you ignored that this happened many years ago when things were different. Everyone knew at the time what was going on with Wyman and Smith and nobody said anything. That should prove to you that things were different. I saw an old movie the other day where two guys in their 40's were talking about having sex with 15 year old's. It was a different time.

Keithriff99 is right. Spot on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-03-25 17:14 by Cooltoplady.

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matxil

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stanlove

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keithsman

Quote
His Majesty
In time I am sure this will get round to The Rolling Stones and other 60's and 70's bands in a more legacy damaging way.

There's plenty to crucify them about and much of it is not exactly hidden.

Regardless...

I love The Rolling Stones.

That's my worry, we are getting to a time where anything deemed incorrect will be censored, i can see a day in the not too distant future where it will be wrong for anyone to play this music based on the morel high ground of the likes of twitter facebook and Instagram.
We already have Mick changing the lyrics on certain songs, i wonder where it all ends up, the Stones are sexist sort of thing so must be censored etc etc.

People need to step up. Once again a small minority of loud lefties run things and decide what others can watch. The right wing needs a spokesman that we all stand behind. Boycott anyone that caters to the left wing mob. That will end this crap.

Now, I am a "leftie" myself, but I always thought right-wing politics could be respectable, democratic, and decent. I think there was a time when it was. But it's interesting to see how, on many places, (i.e., the "social media") a certain group of self-acclaimed "right-wing" people have no problem at all in defending things that any decent person (regardless of being left or right) would criticize. I will not give a long list of examples here, but stick to the matter at hand: a man in his fourties starting a sexual relationship with a 13-year old is a pedofile. I don't care if it's Picasso, Charlie Chaplin or Bill Wyman. It's a sick thing. Defending it or turning a blind eye to it, is simply wrong. And I am hoping - indeed - that all the right-wing people on this world will stand up one day and defend a decent point of view on female rights (and in this case: children's rights), as they should and as they once did.

Now, I know I am bordering over the edge of what's allowed on this forum but I am not the one who started dragging politics into this subject. The subject is - I repeat - not political at all but very simple: is it right for a man in his 40s to get physical with a 13 year old girl? The answer should be obvious.

I would love to see that list. I am sure that would eye opening.