Yep ...been thinkin the same .,...



ROCKMAN

Hey now, bitching a priori is what we do around here!


I was dreaming of a steel guitar engagement, and that Ozzy appeared on the remake of "Happy" with Keith.

also praising a priori on a 30 seconds homemade breakfast jam by mick or keith

it's almost 20 years since their last album of originals, legit is the wish of the fan that has kept the faith so long rambling around on here

I dreamed the album and tour were called

HIT THE WALL

Ya sleepin in the wrong bed .....



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
Yep ...been thinkin the same .,...

I have asked, no, begged, no, actually prayed a few messages before: "What about actually listening to the final result before start talking doom?"

But, obviously, no luck. Some "hardcore fans" here can't seem to be able to live without regular bitching...

as long as the guitar plays

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retired_dog

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Rockman
Yep ...been thinkin the same .,...

I have asked, no, begged, no, actually prayed a few messages before: "What about actually listening to the final result before start talking doom?"

But, obviously, no luck. Some "hardcore fans" here can't seem to be able to live without regular bitching...

I certainly remain very hopeful and optimistic for the long anticipated album...

...but some will find it hard to contain distaste for a lot of these [hopefully ill-founded] circulating rumours .

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skytrench
as long as the guitar plays

It'd bloody well better do !

[Some idiots have done their best to virtually edit out the guitars from many of the live releases in recent years ]

The guitars are mixed down, definitely. The reason is either fashion or pettiness. I'm fairly certain it would be a direction given to the mixing engineer and not just coincidence. Listening to recent studio releases seems to favor the opposite extreme with guitars sometimes so loud that clarity is sacrificed.

Of course, it could just be that I'm old.

It's almost like the mixing and mastering is being done by folks who just don't get what the Stones are about...and are trying to make the record sound "nicer".

The Rolling Stones ain't supposed to sound nice !

Maybe is Mick's wish to sound so clean and pristtine

Well I don't think Mick's ever been too keen on that ramshackle racket that Keith and Ronnie make ...but that's maybe another subject altogether.

..and we love that glorious racket !

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retired_dog

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Rockman
Yep ...been thinkin the same .,...

I have asked, no, begged, no, actually prayed a few messages before: "What about actually listening to the final result before start talking doom?"

But, obviously, no luck. Some "hardcore fans" here can't seem to be able to live without regular bitching...

It's a time-saving strategy. If we do all the bitching now, we don't have to do that later on, and when the album is finally available we can confine ourselves to making strictly objective, balanced, well-considered, and fair statements ...

i.e

More bitchin'.

[there is time a honoured tradition around these parts of Pre-Release bitchin' and Post- Release bitchin . Please don't confuse the two ! ]

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Spud
i.e

More bitchin'.

[there is time a honoured tradition around these parts of Pre-Release bitchin' and Post- Release bitchin . Please don't confuse the two ! ]

We actually have 4 bitchin' phases.

1. Pre-announcement bitchin'
2. Post-announcement/Pre-release bitchin'
3. Post-release bitchin'
4. Looking-back bitchin'

I stand corrected .

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hockenheim95

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Spud
i.e

More bitchin'.

[there is time a honoured tradition around these parts of Pre-Release bitchin' and Post- Release bitchin . Please don't confuse the two ! ]

We actually have 4 bitchin' phases.

1. Pre-announcement bitchin'
2. Post-announcement/Pre-release bitchin'
3. Post-release bitchin'
4. Looking-back bitchin'

The Ancient Art of Bitching, copyrighted by the Rolling Stones hardcore fan base. The only official publication: IORR's "Tell Me".

- Doxa

Can we please start a brand new thread, with a brand new subject, for the brand new album, with brand new material, please Bjornulf ??

Subject title to be something funny, poignant, clever or innovative.....

Lets have a brief competition to see who can come up with the best Subject ? Bjornulf to judge ??

I'll submit a few to get the ball rolling.....


Not The Last Time....


Its so very lonely, we're 18 new album years from home....


or perhaps something eye catching that may get passed on to the Stones.....


Mick n Keef, please please please, can we have one more new album.....


Who knows.....I'm sure there are far more cleverer and wittier IORR people out there than me.....

It's a Bitch

Thinking the stage of 'pre-announcement bitchin' - the one based on random info and rumours about we know about the recording process, and what we have done now for years in this thread. And still do.

I think the core of bitchin' is based on expectations of how an ideal Rolling Stones record should sound or should not sound like. The rumours and info are interpreted against those ideal expectations. The rumours of having different producers (some so contemporary ones), duets or whatever seem to cause worriness, if not even horror. Those seem to be in conflict with the ideal Stones album.

But let's check how the rumours stage - all talk, no musical evidence - been like in the past.

Think of Keith taking the musical leadership and guidance into his shoulders, the songs based on his and Woodie's endless jams. This happening truely first time since Nellcote, and the album marketed in the press before its announcement as "Keith's album". Doesn't that sound promising?

We got DIRTY WORK.

Think of Mick and Keith writing together, almost like locked up in the kitchen again. The album will be based purely on those Glmmer Twins colloborations, made in Mick's basement this time. The contributions by other people are minimal, mostly just band members Charlie and Woody. The production is minimal, the output is intentionally left raw and unpolished. Doesn't that sound promising?

We got A BIGGER BANG.

Think of the group finally giving enough of time on sessions for the whole group to take part, and the songs grew up out of inspiration by this unique group of musicians. The method and creativity is like once in Pathe Marconi. So many Keith's riffs and song sketches are developed into complete new songs, Mick's more experimental ideas are tested, but abandoned. This all by the guidance of a new producer who is a fanboy of the group and knows that a great Rolling Stones album should sound like EXILE ON MAIN STREET. We are heard that the material will be covering all the genres and styles the Stones have mastered in the past, no flirting with contemporary sounds and genres. Doesn't that sound promising?

We got VOODOO LOUNGE.

Well, anyone can feel anything about those three albums, but in my book they are the weakest three they ever have done. I could tell the same story about BRIDGES TO BABYLON that had some worrying aspects in its making process (Mick and Keith not getting along, the album based on their aborted solo projects, at least Mick's, terrible amount of different producers, close to rumours we have now of the upcoming slbum) but I think the result turned out to be a bit better than those three albums. Not much, but still.

Of we go wild in imagination, had we heard about what was going on in EXILE sessions, and not having this romantic, almost mythical picture of those sessions and of its odd creation, we probably would have been VERY worried about the final outcome....

For me the lesson is that no matter what we know what is going on in the kitchen, that doesn't causally dictate the taste of food when it is finally served on the table. Or that no matter how incredible meals the Stones have made in the past, the recipe itself do not guarantee a great meal.

- Doxa



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-05 18:58 by Doxa.

You're right of course...

..but you'd want to know if somebody had been gobbing in the soup

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Doxa
Thinking the stage of 'pre-announcement bitchin' - the one based on random info and rumours about we know about the recording process, and what we have done now for years in this thread. And still do.

I think the core of bitchin' is based on expectations of how an ideal Rolling Stones record should sound or should not sound like. The rumours and info are interpreted against those ideal expectations. The rumours of having different producers (some so contemporary ones), duets or whatever seem to cause worriness, if not even horror. Those seem to be in conflict with the ideal Stones album.

But let's check how the rumours stage - all talk, no musical evidence - been like in the past.

Think of Keith taking the musical leadership and guidance into his shoulders, the songs based on his and Woodie's endless jams. This happening truely first time since Nellcote, and the album marketed in the press before its announcement as "Keith's album". Doesn't that sound promising?

We got DIRTY WORK.

Think of Mick and Keith writing together, almost like locked up in the kitchen again. The album will be based purely on those Glmmer Twins colloborations, made in Mick's basement this time. The contributions by other people are minimal, mostly just band members Charlie and Woody. The production is minimal, the output is intentionally left raw and unpolished. Doesn't that sound promising?

We got A BIGGER BANG.

Think of the group finally giving enough of time on sessions for the whole group to take part, and the songs grew up out of inspiration by this unique group of musicians. The method and creativity is like once in Pathe Marconi. So many Keith's riffs and song sketches are developed into complete new songs, Mick's more experimental ideas are tested, but abandoned. This all by the guidance of a new producer who is a fanboy of the group and knows that a great Rolling Stones album should sound like EXILE ON MAIN STREET. We are heard that the material will be covering all the genres and styles the Stones have mastered in the past, no flirting with contemporary sounds and genres. Doesn't that sound promising?

We got VOODOO LOUNGE.

Well, anyone can feel anything about those three albums, but in my book they are the weakest three they ever have done. I could tell the same story about BRIDGES TO BABYLON that had some worrying aspects in its making process (Mick and Keith not getting along, the album based on their aborted solo projects, at least Mick's, terrible amount of different producers, close to rumours we have now of the upcoming slbum) but I think the result turned out to be a bit better than those three albums. Not much, but still.

Of we go wild in imagination, had we heard about what was going on in EXILE sessions, and not having this romantic, almost mythical picture of those sessions and of its odd creation, we probably would have been VERY worried about the final outcome....

For me the lesson is that no matter what we know what is going on in the kitchen, that doesn't causally dictate the taste of food when it is finally served on the table. Or that no matter how incredible meals the Stones have made in the past, the recipe itself do not guarantee a great meal.

- Doxa

Sure. That's why the old saying "the proof is in the pudding" ("and not in all this foreplay blah blah blah" I'd like to add!) always was and still is so very true...

But one thing is almost certain for me - no matter how the album turns out in general, it will just like the three weaker albums you mentioned above most likely include a handful of songs that beg for repeated listening, stuff that I will love. And the hope is probably not all too far-fetched that the knowledge of this being their likely final statement as a recording band led to a quality control that was lacking sometimes in the past and that spares us of duds or just simply mediocre stuff like "Infamy", "Driving Too Fast" and the like.

I feel like the glimmers have been in a better place, and maybe have a renewed appreciation for each other while finishing this album and think it’s going to translate into some exceptional tunes. I can’t wait!

Thank god this thread is back. I thought we'll never make it to six hundred pages about nothing. I think we can do it. Of course we'll have to exert more effort and hopefully break the tape before that new album, that glorious, 'best since Exile' work. Every song will be a joy and not remind you of past work. The bass will be on a whole new level. People will be snapping their fingers and humming the single as you pass them on the street. (And no, you won't have to quickly look away).

I think in the movie business, this is called "development hell". In the scientific world, it is comparable to an article that has been rejected too many times and then gets re-edited and re-edited again... At a certain point, it's almost better to throw everything away and start from scratch.

One might ask "what is an album"? In the past, it meant a consistent package of songs that somehow complemented each other to create an overall feeling. Examples are Aftermath, any of the Big Four and later Some Girls, and - oddly enough - even Tattoo You. Of the lesser albums, Steel Wheels fulfills this too. (Dirty Work too, but it's just bad, so lets pretend it never happened.) Of the latter albums, one of the flaws was that they were not consistent units but just a hodge-podge of Mick songs, Keith songs and Stones songs. Even nowadays, in times of Spotify, occasionally albums come out that have this sense of unity (Beyonce comes to mind). The fact that this "new Stones album" has been worked on for so long, is in this sense a very bad sign.

Also, the Stones always were at their best when the outside world gave them a push in the right direction. First it was the blues. Then the Beatles. Later, all the late 60's rock acts like Hendrix etc... Late 70's it was punk and disco. But right now, I don't see anything around that could possibly inspire them. And certainly not Mick and Keith in the same way.

So, no, I still don't expect much from this new album and I'd still rather they wouldn't bother.

Such a sad message. Sure it’s your opinion, but it is depressing. I can see why you might be a Stones fan, there’s a lot to love, but it surprises me you’re on this board, and you’re not remotely interested in hearing new music seems strange…feels like you want attention more than anything…?

<At a certain point, it's almost better to throw everything away and start from scratch>

Wouldn't be surprised if that is exactly what they did.

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guyrachel
Such a sad message. Sure it’s your opinion, but it is depressing. I can see why you might be a Stones fan, there’s a lot to love, but it surprises me you’re on this board, and you’re not remotely interested in hearing new music seems strange…feels like you want attention more than anything…?

What I want more than anything is Keith making more solo albums. They might not be as great as the best of the Stones' work, but they are certainly more interesting than anything the Stones have been doing since a long time.
And I bet most people on this board hardly ever listen to DW, SW, VL, B2B or ABB.

Looking back on the past three decades, I wish they had made more Stones albums and solo albums and done less touring. Purely selfish, but I'll always wish there had been more songs to enjoy or critique.

The thing about bitching about setlists or sidemen or arrangements is we can choose not to go a concert.

The thing about wishing they wouldn't make a new album at all is we can choose not to buy it or stream it.

Both are a matter of opting out and not minding that others, least of all the artists, might think otherwise.

Wanting more, I understand out of pure selfish greed. Wishing someone wouldn't bother at all is a bit more possessive where you want them to think like you do. Maxtil really just wanted Keith to leave and go solo. That's not the same as wanting to control them, he just gravitated toward one aging Glimmer Twin more than the other and was disenchanted with compromise masquerading as collaboration when they worked together. I can respect that even though Mick with or without The Stones is still capable of surprising me as much as I may feel alienated by some of the material.

Such is the dilemma of a number of aging fans of geriatric rockers.