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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.
I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.
That is logical.
101 %.
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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.
I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.
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TornAndFried
We can agree TY had a different gestation than most of other albums but that doesn't define it as a compilation. It's still a collection of original and unreleased songs from the same artist. As Spock would say "that is highly illogical."
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IanBillen
TY was not a compilation album (compilation albums are songs that were already released or completed or were b sides to singles etc..). TY was an album comprised of unreleased material over the years that was not completed that was worked up and crafted with a few newer (more recent) tunes thrown into the batch as well. It is / was a new studio album .. but it wasn't nor is it ever seen as a compilation.
Now... on with the convo about the upcoming album .. whenever it will FINALLY come Lol.
Since the lads have an extra day in New Orleans due to the postponed show they should be taking advantage of their time off and proximity to each other and spend an afternoon writing together in their hotel suite. Or watching cricket.
Actually, after pondering their studio catalogue, I find the size to be quite paltry. For a band of 57 years...well....Quote
beachbreak
The boys will put out a great album of originals.
Better than ABB.
Some golden nuggets on Cross Eyed Heart, more to come, Mick too.
They own the formula, just ponder the size of their catalog!
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IanBillen
TY was not a compilation album (compilation albums are songs that were already released or completed or were b sides to singles etc..). TY was an album comprised of unreleased material over the years that was not completed that was worked up and crafted with a few newer (more recent) tunes thrown into the batch as well. It is / was a new studio album .. but it wasn't nor is it ever seen as a compilation.
Now... on with the convo about the upcoming album .. whenever it will FINALLY come Lol.
Since the lads have an extra day in New Orleans due to the postponed show they should be taking advantage of their time off and proximity to each other and spend an afternoon writing together in their hotel suite. Or watching cricket.
Good point but I wonder if something would even cross their minds these days...or since 1981 actually? At best it's been "we'll try to do something after the tour" like in 2002 when they were concerned people would see them as an oldies band touring behind a compilation. That nearly feels like a lifetime ago now!
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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.
I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.
We can agree TY had a different gestation than most of other albums but that doesn't define it as a compilation. It's still a collection of original and unreleased songs from the same artist. As Spock would say "that is highly illogical."
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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.
I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.
We can agree TY had a different gestation than most of other albums but that doesn't define it as a compilation. It's still a collection of original and unreleased songs from the same artist. As Spock would say "that is highly illogical."
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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.
I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.
We can agree TY had a different gestation than most of other albums but that doesn't define it as a compilation. It's still a collection of original and unreleased songs from the same artist. As Spock would say "that is highly illogical."
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I agree .. Tattoo You was not their standard way of doing a new studio album. I def agree with that and that is a given. It wasnt a regular studio album at all behind the scenes .. however it was a new studio album and it was not a 'compilation'..... it was a brand new studio album.
Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. I always thought they recorded the entire thing after the Emotional Rescue sessions and then toured with it. I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.
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IanBillen
Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. (...) I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.
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IanBillen
Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. (...) I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.
I've said it already but here it comes again: this is not entirely accurate. In the interviews (mind you, in the press, in mags, not on youtube) surrounding its release back in 1981 Keith and also Mick were quite outspoken that some tracks/songs on TY were up to seven/eight (or whatever) years old and came from sessions for several previous albums. Keith called it repeatedly a normal procedure of the Stones to let songs ripen until they are ready. Maybe we know more fine-grained detail today than we did in 1981 but the basic architecture underlying TY has always been clear. I seem to remember that only two songs were claimed to have been freshly recorded: Neighbours and another one.
The mags etc. I am referring to is what was published in German at that time - in many cases perhaps just uncredited translations of interviews in English/American media. I find it hard to believe that those basic facts about TY were unknown in the English-speaking world and had only been revealed to a few chosen mainland Europeans.
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IanBillen
Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. (...) I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.
I've said it already but here it comes again: this is not entirely accurate. In the interviews (mind you, in the press, in mags, not on youtube) surrounding its release back in 1981 Keith and also Mick were quite outspoken that some tracks/songs on TY were up to seven/eight (or whatever) years old and came from sessions for several previous albums. Keith called it repeatedly a normal procedure of the Stones to let songs ripen until they are ready. Maybe we know more fine-grained detail today than we did in 1981 but the basic architecture underlying TY has always been clear. I seem to remember that only two songs were claimed to have been freshly recorded: Neighbours and another one.
The mags etc. I am referring to is what was published in German at that time - in many cases perhaps just uncredited translations of interviews in English/American media. I find it hard to believe that those basic facts about TY were unknown in the English-speaking world and had only been revealed to a few chosen mainland Europeans.
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GasLightStreet
It's no different than 'Ben had a gleam in his eye about having a son in 1973' but didn't have a son until 1982. 'It's not a real son', said the idiot jerk neighbor.
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IanBillen
Whats strange is that none of us knew how TY came to be until years and years down the road. (...) I don't think any of us knew how TY was constructed in the regard it was until approaching the mid 90's.
I've said it already but here it comes again: this is not entirely accurate. In the interviews (mind you, in the press, in mags, not on youtube) surrounding its release back in 1981 Keith and also Mick were quite outspoken that some tracks/songs on TY were up to seven/eight (or whatever) years old and came from sessions for several previous albums. Keith called it repeatedly a normal procedure of the Stones to let songs ripen until they are ready. Maybe we know more fine-grained detail today than we did in 1981 but the basic architecture underlying TY has always been clear. I seem to remember that only two songs were claimed to have been freshly recorded: Neighbours and another one.
The mags etc. I am referring to is what was published in German at that time - in many cases perhaps just uncredited translations of interviews in English/American media. I find it hard to believe that those basic facts about TY were unknown in the English-speaking world and had only been revealed to a few chosen mainland Europeans.
Have not been able to find any literature anywhere alluding to them recording two new songs for TATTOO YOU, just that everything was done up through the EMOTIONAL RESCUE sessions.
Perhaps it was their way of throwing a bit of shade to the nostalgia haters back then... just like they claimed they were still a "working" band with the 4 new songs on FORTY LICKS, a huge overstatement.
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GasLightStreet
Have not been able to find any literature anywhere alluding to them recording two new songs for TATTOO YOU, just that everything was done up through the EMOTIONAL RESCUE sessions.
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nick
If it's going to be considered a compilation, it's a compilation of unreleased tracks.
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Rocky Dijon
"Black Limousine" was a riff that Ronnie had on the backburner for several years. The song itself was ready in 1978 (again, see GIMME SOME NECK's inner sleeve). This was given a new guitar overdub from Keith during EMOTIONAL RESCUE which changed the song's arrangement. Remixing and editing in 1981 were the final touches on a song that was always a contender for SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
"Neighbors" came together during EMOTIONAL RESCUE. They cut another version in the Fall of 1980 with Bobby Keyes. This is close to the finished version but Sonny Rollins re-did the sax parts in 1981. Again, the song was a contender that was going to be released.
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Rocky Dijon
This silliness around studio album vs. compilation is a question of semantics vs. the impression it imparts. Calling TATTOO YOU a compilation suggests it was another METAMORPHOSIS in which songs cut between 1964 and 1971 that were deemed not good enough at the time were brought together as a new collection. One listen to METAMORPHOSIS convinced most listeners there was a reason most of this material was left by the wayside.
TATTOO YOU, by contrast was material that was in the running for several albums. "Start Me Up" was short-listed for SOME GIRLS (see Ronnie's inner sleeve of GIMME SOME NECK) and EMOTIONAL RESCUE. It was going to come out regardless. They kept playing with it, cutting new arrangements, going back to the original and not only remixing, but adding new lyrics, recutting vocals, adding percussion. It was a work-in-progress since SOME GIRLS that was finished in 1981.
That's one song, of course. What about the rest?
"Hang Fire" was likewise a holdover from SOME GIRLS also short-listed for EMOTIONAL RESCUE that was given a new lease on life with the addition of a new melody line that transformed the song from its punk origins into something unique for 1981. Mick's new doo doo doo backing vocals now build their way through the song. The work-in-progress since SOME GIRLS was likewise finished in 1981.
"Slave" was a great jam session from BLACK AND BLUE that they returned to during the EMOTIONAL RESCUE sessions. This is hardly strange. During the BLACK AND BLUE sessions they returned to unfinished numbers from GOATS HEAD SOUP. Sometimes unfinished songs make the album and sometimes they linger. More overdubs followed for "Slave" and by 1981 Mick was sinally writing lyrics with "Ride a Wave" vying with "Slave." Sonny Rollins' saxophone was also a new melodic addition in 1981 that changed the arrangement. Truly an unfinished track until 1981 given that it had no lyrics and a good chunk of the music did not exist before that time.
"Little T & A" was a riff that Keith had played with for several years. It started to come together in the rough form we know in the late seventies. For a long time it was just a backing track. Final lyrics and vocals did not exist until after EMOTIONAL RESCUE. Another work in progress finished in 1981.
"Black Limousine" was a riff that Ronnie had on the backburner for several years. The song itself was ready in 1978 (again, see GIMME SOME NECK's inner sleeve). This was given a new guitar overdub from Keith during EMOTIONAL RESCUE which changed the song's arrangement. Remixing and editing in 1981 were the final touches on a song that was always a contender for SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
"Neighbors" came together during EMOTIONAL RESCUE. They cut another version in the Fall of 1980 with Bobby Keyes. This is close to the finished version but Sonny Rollins re-did the sax parts in 1981. Again, the song was a contender that was going to be released.
As soon as EMOTIONAL RESCUE came out, Rolling Stone and Beggar Banquet noted their "next Emotional Rescue" was expected to follow within a few months. Not a compilation, they simply had more than a single album's worth of material in the running as was also the case with SOME GIRLS when they were stockpiling material in case Keith went to prison. They did not want to lose all of these songs and they continued to tinker with them and build the the tracks up all the way up to the start of summer 1981.
Not a compilation. The entire album was a work in progress of material they had been intending to release. "Worried About You" was planned for BLACK AND BLUE and was then considered for a live debut on LOVE YOU LIVE and then again for EMOTIONAL RESCUE. "Tops" and "Waiting on a Friend" were likewise revived for EMOTIONAL RESCUE. Neither had finished lyrics or in some cases any lyrics at all. "Waiting on a Friend" was built up considerably in 1981. These could not be considered finished tracks before then. "Heaven" and "No Use in Crying" were boht started during EMOTIONAL RESCUE" and they continued to putter with them, adding overdubs and remixing until they felt they were right.
Seen from that perspective, it is little different from the album they've been puttering around with since December 2015 in fits and starts. There are versions of some of these songs going back to 2011 to Mick's demo sessions with Charlie and Matt Clifford at Le Fork. Mick and Keith have worked on tracks together and apart. The band has worked as a unit on the album through several sessions over the past few years. Sometimes Ronnie does overdubs on his own. They've delved back into older sessions for songs left by the wayside as far back as STEEL WHEELS that are worth giving a listen to, overdubbing, recutting, to see if they are worthwhile.
There is, by all accounts, a lot of material none of which they consider to be finished yet. Some of the songs will likely be set aside for other later releases. Possibly a solo album or two or possibly still another Stones release. There is no clock ticking except for mortality and if that sad day arrives for the band before the album, the moment has been prepared for. That is why they've been stockpiling tracks and countless versions and mixes.
Remember Dave Stewart's remark a few years back that Mick could release several albums worth of unheard material on a cloud. Dave recommended Mick calling it GET OFF ON MY CLOUD. They have lots of material. They work on it together as well as with the likes of Dave Stewart, Matt Clifford, and Steve Jordan. They bring in outside producers to consult and help shape it. Lately, the focus has been to put more of a Jagger-Richards stamp on the material, shaping and molding to make it work for both of them, for all of them, for Don Was who is anything but the yes-man he's derided as, and for the label.
The new album will come and like TATTOO YOU it will be a work-in-progress of several years, not a compilation of odds and sods like METAMORPHOSIS.
Anyone who can't understand this likely chooses to be obtuse.
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Rocky Dijon
"Black Limousine" was a riff that Ronnie had on the backburner for several years. The song itself was ready in 1978 (again, see GIMME SOME NECK's inner sleeve). This was given a new guitar overdub from Keith during EMOTIONAL RESCUE which changed the song's arrangement. Remixing and editing in 1981 were the final touches on a song that was always a contender for SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE.
"Neighbors" came together during EMOTIONAL RESCUE. They cut another version in the Fall of 1980 with Bobby Keyes. This is close to the finished version but Sonny Rollins re-did the sax parts in 1981. Again, the song was a contender that was going to be released.
[www.nzentgraf.de] references the fall of 1980 sessions is strictly overdubs, editing, mixing, no recording with the band on any new tracks ie Neighbours. Sonny Rollins added sax to everything in the spring of 1981 in NYC. That is also referenced on timeisonourside.com. What is loosely referenced, that I can find anyway, is that Bobby Keys added sax to it originally for the 1979 ER sessions that include Bobby but lists nothing in particular, even though the first take of Neighbours was done then.
Which makes sense since Bobby is on EMOTIONAL RESCUE's Let Me Go, Dance, the title track, She's So Cold and All About You (as well as If I Was A Dancer).
Black Limo apparently got started for the IORR sessions in 1973 with... Ronnie Wood but, clearly, is not the bottoms used, as noted, for TATTOO YOU.
Great writing though, as usual!
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Ian Billen
Let's forget Tattoo You on this particular thread unless somehow it directly relates to the new / up and coming album