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DandelionPowderman
BB is not a clean break from TSMR, imo. The footprints of BB's predecessor are all over tracks like Jig Saw Puzzle (the mellotron), "Citadel #2" (Stray Cat Blues) and even in the spaced-out blues Parachute Woman + in JJF and Child Of The Moon.
IMO, BB wouldn't have been as great without the freakiness that still was there.
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HairballQuote
DandelionPowderman
BB is not a clean break from TSMR, imo. The footprints of BB's predecessor are all over tracks like Jig Saw Puzzle (the mellotron), "Citadel #2" (Stray Cat Blues) and even in the spaced-out blues Parachute Woman + in JJF and Child Of The Moon.
IMO, BB wouldn't have been as great without the freakiness that still was there.
Perhaps not an absolute clean break from TSMR, but at least a major departue. There are indeed minor traces (or 'footsteps' as you call them) of some leftover mellotron ambience to be heard on Beggars - what I was referring to was the songs themselves and the overall vibe. I thought it was common knowledge that Beggars was a back to the roots, blues, and rock and roll album without any oddball songwriting or studio experimentation ala TSMR. As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call Beggars a 'psychedelic' album. But again you are right regarding some leftover traces of what came before which is only natural for most bands. Maybe I should have said in my previous post a massive growth spurt, a major departure, or a gigantic leap of evolution vs. an 'about face'. And as you know that evolution away from TSMR would then continue with Let it Bleed - seeped in the blues, country, gospel, and rock...not a trace of TSMR's psychedelia imo - they pretty much cut out the crap. And that evolution continued with Sticky Fingers - more of the same vibe of LIB. The evolution would then culminate with Exile - a tour de force of blues, country, rock, and gospel - and there you have the 'Big 4' considered by many to be their best. With all that said, it goes to the Stones credit that they can successfully embrace many genres of music and do it justice - sometimes it works better than others.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowderman
BB is not a clean break from TSMR, imo. The footprints of BB's predecessor are all over tracks like Jig Saw Puzzle (the mellotron), "Citadel #2" (Stray Cat Blues) and even in the spaced-out blues Parachute Woman + in JJF and Child Of The Moon.
IMO, BB wouldn't have been as great without the freakiness that still was there.
Perhaps not an absolute clean break from TSMR, but at least a major departue. There are indeed minor traces (or 'footsteps' as you call them) of some leftover mellotron ambience to be heard on Beggars - what I was referring to was the songs themselves and the overall vibe. I thought it was common knowledge that Beggars was a back to the roots, blues, and rock and roll album without any oddball songwriting or studio experimentation ala TSMR. As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call Beggars a 'psychedelic' album. But again you are right regarding some leftover traces of what came before which is only natural for most bands. Maybe I should have said in my previous post a massive growth spurt, a major departure, or a gigantic leap of evolution vs. an 'about face'. And as you know that evolution away from TSMR would then continue with Let it Bleed - seeped in the blues, country, gospel, and rock...not a trace of TSMR's psychedelia imo - they pretty much cut out the crap. And that evolution continued with Sticky Fingers - more of the same vibe of LIB. The evolution would then culminate with Exile - a tour de force of blues, country, rock, and gospel - and there you have the 'Big 4' considered by many to be their best. With all that said, it goes to the Stones credit that they can successfully embrace many genres of music and do it justice - sometimes it works better than others.
Well, we hear things differently here.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about mere small mellotron parts or residue off TSMR, but the overall vibe of tracks like JJF, Child Of The Moon, Jig Saw Puzzle, Stray Cat Blues, Parachute Woman and even SFTD.
The full transition to blues, rhythm and blues, rock'n'roll, country, americana didn't really happen before Exile, imo. Simply because it took time to make that transition, and because many of the tracks on albums like SF were from the 60s.
So, yes, it's a giant leap, but the overall freaky atmosphere is still there (and that's why BB is so great, imo).
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HairballQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowderman
BB is not a clean break from TSMR, imo. The footprints of BB's predecessor are all over tracks like Jig Saw Puzzle (the mellotron), "Citadel #2" (Stray Cat Blues) and even in the spaced-out blues Parachute Woman + in JJF and Child Of The Moon.
IMO, BB wouldn't have been as great without the freakiness that still was there.
Perhaps not an absolute clean break from TSMR, but at least a major departue. There are indeed minor traces (or 'footsteps' as you call them) of some leftover mellotron ambience to be heard on Beggars - what I was referring to was the songs themselves and the overall vibe. I thought it was common knowledge that Beggars was a back to the roots, blues, and rock and roll album without any oddball songwriting or studio experimentation ala TSMR. As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call Beggars a 'psychedelic' album. But again you are right regarding some leftover traces of what came before which is only natural for most bands. Maybe I should have said in my previous post a massive growth spurt, a major departure, or a gigantic leap of evolution vs. an 'about face'. And as you know that evolution away from TSMR would then continue with Let it Bleed - seeped in the blues, country, gospel, and rock...not a trace of TSMR's psychedelia imo - they pretty much cut out the crap. And that evolution continued with Sticky Fingers - more of the same vibe of LIB. The evolution would then culminate with Exile - a tour de force of blues, country, rock, and gospel - and there you have the 'Big 4' considered by many to be their best. With all that said, it goes to the Stones credit that they can successfully embrace many genres of music and do it justice - sometimes it works better than others.
Well, we hear things differently here.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about mere small mellotron parts or residue off TSMR, but the overall vibe of tracks like JJF, Child Of The Moon, Jig Saw Puzzle, Stray Cat Blues, Parachute Woman and even SFTD.
The full transition to blues, rhythm and blues, rock'n'roll, country, americana didn't really happen before Exile, imo. Simply because it took time to make that transition, and because many of the tracks on albums like SF were from the 60s.
So, yes, it's a giant leap, but the overall freaky atmosphere is still there (and that's why BB is so great, imo).
Yes Dandelion we must hear things differently then, or we're misunderstanding each other. I hear no 'overall vibe' of TSMR on the tracks you mention - especially JJF, Stray Cat Blues, Parachute Woman, and SFTD. Maybe a bit of mellotron on a couple of those tunes, but overall Beggars is quite different from TSMR imo. And again, I don't think anyone would label Beggars Banquet a 'psychedelic' album by any stretch of the imagination (not that you are). As for the full transition to blues, rhythm and blues, rock'n'roll, country, and americana...I'm not sure I follow your logic (or maybe you misunderstood mine). What I was saying was it was more of a transition away from psychedelic stuff - an evolution that would incorporate those different genres mentioned. In other words back to the roots and basics, and as far away from the TSMR experimentation as possible. Small traces (or residue) of it perhaps of it on Beggars, but after that it was nowhere to be found really imo. One only has to see (and hear) the track listings of LIB , Sticky Fingers, and Exile, to know there is nothing pyschedlic about them, and those albums are greater because of it imo.
Anyhow, maybe some day we will meet in person and discuss the intricacies of the Stones evolution (warts and all) while drinking some beers and playing guitars.
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HMS
Child Of The Moon, just like We love You & Dandelion would have been a perfect fit for TSMR. That way it could have been a great album. The way it is, it´s partly great and partly disastrous.
And yes, there are traces of TSMR in Jigsaw Puzzle.
Even I can notice that
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GasLightStreetQuote
HMS
Child Of The Moon, just like We love You & Dandelion would have been a perfect fit for TSMR. That way it could have been a great album. The way it is, it´s partly great and partly disastrous.
And yes, there are traces of TSMR in Jigsaw Puzzle.
Even I can notice that
Child Of The Moon would've been a good fit... had they bothered to finish it.
But Jigsaw Puzzle having traces of TSRM? You don't notice things like that.
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GasLightStreet
But Jigsaw Puzzle having traces of TSRM? You don't notice things like that.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowderman
BB is not a clean break from TSMR, imo. The footprints of BB's predecessor are all over tracks like Jig Saw Puzzle (the mellotron), "Citadel #2" (Stray Cat Blues) and even in the spaced-out blues Parachute Woman + in JJF and Child Of The Moon.
IMO, BB wouldn't have been as great without the freakiness that still was there.
Perhaps not an absolute clean break from TSMR, but at least a major departue. There are indeed minor traces (or 'footsteps' as you call them) of some leftover mellotron ambience to be heard on Beggars - what I was referring to was the songs themselves and the overall vibe. I thought it was common knowledge that Beggars was a back to the roots, blues, and rock and roll album without any oddball songwriting or studio experimentation ala TSMR. As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call Beggars a 'psychedelic' album. But again you are right regarding some leftover traces of what came before which is only natural for most bands. Maybe I should have said in my previous post a massive growth spurt, a major departure, or a gigantic leap of evolution vs. an 'about face'. And as you know that evolution away from TSMR would then continue with Let it Bleed - seeped in the blues, country, gospel, and rock...not a trace of TSMR's psychedelia imo - they pretty much cut out the crap. And that evolution continued with Sticky Fingers - more of the same vibe of LIB. The evolution would then culminate with Exile - a tour de force of blues, country, rock, and gospel - and there you have the 'Big 4' considered by many to be their best. With all that said, it goes to the Stones credit that they can successfully embrace many genres of music and do it justice - sometimes it works better than others.
Well, we hear things differently here.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about mere small mellotron parts or residue off TSMR, but the overall vibe of tracks like JJF, Child Of The Moon, Jig Saw Puzzle, Stray Cat Blues, Parachute Woman and even SFTD.
The full transition to blues, rhythm and blues, rock'n'roll, country, americana didn't really happen before Exile, imo. Simply because it took time to make that transition, and because many of the tracks on albums like SF were from the 60s.
So, yes, it's a giant leap, but the overall freaky atmosphere is still there (and that's why BB is so great, imo).
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Silver DaggerQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowderman
BB is not a clean break from TSMR, imo. The footprints of BB's predecessor are all over tracks like Jig Saw Puzzle (the mellotron), "Citadel #2" (Stray Cat Blues) and even in the spaced-out blues Parachute Woman + in JJF and Child Of The Moon.
IMO, BB wouldn't have been as great without the freakiness that still was there.
Perhaps not an absolute clean break from TSMR, but at least a major departue. There are indeed minor traces (or 'footsteps' as you call them) of some leftover mellotron ambience to be heard on Beggars - what I was referring to was the songs themselves and the overall vibe. I thought it was common knowledge that Beggars was a back to the roots, blues, and rock and roll album without any oddball songwriting or studio experimentation ala TSMR. As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call Beggars a 'psychedelic' album. But again you are right regarding some leftover traces of what came before which is only natural for most bands. Maybe I should have said in my previous post a massive growth spurt, a major departure, or a gigantic leap of evolution vs. an 'about face'. And as you know that evolution away from TSMR would then continue with Let it Bleed - seeped in the blues, country, gospel, and rock...not a trace of TSMR's psychedelia imo - they pretty much cut out the crap. And that evolution continued with Sticky Fingers - more of the same vibe of LIB. The evolution would then culminate with Exile - a tour de force of blues, country, rock, and gospel - and there you have the 'Big 4' considered by many to be their best. With all that said, it goes to the Stones credit that they can successfully embrace many genres of music and do it justice - sometimes it works better than others.
Well, we hear things differently here.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about mere small mellotron parts or residue off TSMR, but the overall vibe of tracks like JJF, Child Of The Moon, Jig Saw Puzzle, Stray Cat Blues, Parachute Woman and even SFTD.
The full transition to blues, rhythm and blues, rock'n'roll, country, americana didn't really happen before Exile, imo. Simply because it took time to make that transition, and because many of the tracks on albums like SF were from the 60s.
So, yes, it's a giant leap, but the overall freaky atmosphere is still there (and that's why BB is so great, imo).
Let's lay Their Satanic Majesty's Request aside here. I think what we're generally talking about is the Stones and psychedelia. Of course TSMR is the Stones' only true psychedelic album but they sure continued to flirt with the genre afterwards.
And yes, Child of The Moon, Stray Cat Blues, Jumping Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man, Sympathy For The Devil, Jigsaw Puzzle, Monkey Man, Moonlight Mile, Heaven, Continental Drift right through to Thru And Thru (especially the near 9 minute mix).
Listen to that crazed Velvets like guitar 'white out' at the end Stray Cat Blues and tell me that isn't psychedelic. Or that wild shenai on Street Fighting Man. Or that glissando-like guitar in the middle of Monkey Man that totally transforms the song and takes it to another level, almost worthy of an orchestra. These are all psychedelic flourishes and hangovers from 67.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
Silver DaggerQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowderman
BB is not a clean break from TSMR, imo. The footprints of BB's predecessor are all over tracks like Jig Saw Puzzle (the mellotron), "Citadel #2" (Stray Cat Blues) and even in the spaced-out blues Parachute Woman + in JJF and Child Of The Moon.
IMO, BB wouldn't have been as great without the freakiness that still was there.
Perhaps not an absolute clean break from TSMR, but at least a major departue. There are indeed minor traces (or 'footsteps' as you call them) of some leftover mellotron ambience to be heard on Beggars - what I was referring to was the songs themselves and the overall vibe. I thought it was common knowledge that Beggars was a back to the roots, blues, and rock and roll album without any oddball songwriting or studio experimentation ala TSMR. As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call Beggars a 'psychedelic' album. But again you are right regarding some leftover traces of what came before which is only natural for most bands. Maybe I should have said in my previous post a massive growth spurt, a major departure, or a gigantic leap of evolution vs. an 'about face'. And as you know that evolution away from TSMR would then continue with Let it Bleed - seeped in the blues, country, gospel, and rock...not a trace of TSMR's psychedelia imo - they pretty much cut out the crap. And that evolution continued with Sticky Fingers - more of the same vibe of LIB. The evolution would then culminate with Exile - a tour de force of blues, country, rock, and gospel - and there you have the 'Big 4' considered by many to be their best. With all that said, it goes to the Stones credit that they can successfully embrace many genres of music and do it justice - sometimes it works better than others.
Well, we hear things differently here.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about mere small mellotron parts or residue off TSMR, but the overall vibe of tracks like JJF, Child Of The Moon, Jig Saw Puzzle, Stray Cat Blues, Parachute Woman and even SFTD.
The full transition to blues, rhythm and blues, rock'n'roll, country, americana didn't really happen before Exile, imo. Simply because it took time to make that transition, and because many of the tracks on albums like SF were from the 60s.
So, yes, it's a giant leap, but the overall freaky atmosphere is still there (and that's why BB is so great, imo).
Let's lay Their Satanic Majesty's Request aside here. I think what we're generally talking about is the Stones and psychedelia. Of course TSMR is the Stones' only true psychedelic album but they sure continued to flirt with the genre afterwards.
And yes, Child of The Moon, Stray Cat Blues, Jumping Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man, Sympathy For The Devil, Jigsaw Puzzle, Monkey Man, Moonlight Mile, Heaven, Continental Drift right through to Thru And Thru (especially the near 9 minute mix).
Listen to that crazed Velvets like guitar 'white out' at the end Stray Cat Blues and tell me that isn't psychedelic. Or that wild shenai on Street Fighting Man. Or that glissando-like guitar in the middle of Monkey Man that totally transforms the song and takes it to another level, almost worthy of an orchestra. These are all psychedelic flourishes and hangovers from 67.
You said it better than I did. Spot on, Mike
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
Silver DaggerQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HairballQuote
DandelionPowderman
BB is not a clean break from TSMR, imo. The footprints of BB's predecessor are all over tracks like Jig Saw Puzzle (the mellotron), "Citadel #2" (Stray Cat Blues) and even in the spaced-out blues Parachute Woman + in JJF and Child Of The Moon.
IMO, BB wouldn't have been as great without the freakiness that still was there.
Perhaps not an absolute clean break from TSMR, but at least a major departue. There are indeed minor traces (or 'footsteps' as you call them) of some leftover mellotron ambience to be heard on Beggars - what I was referring to was the songs themselves and the overall vibe. I thought it was common knowledge that Beggars was a back to the roots, blues, and rock and roll album without any oddball songwriting or studio experimentation ala TSMR. As a matter of fact, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call Beggars a 'psychedelic' album. But again you are right regarding some leftover traces of what came before which is only natural for most bands. Maybe I should have said in my previous post a massive growth spurt, a major departure, or a gigantic leap of evolution vs. an 'about face'. And as you know that evolution away from TSMR would then continue with Let it Bleed - seeped in the blues, country, gospel, and rock...not a trace of TSMR's psychedelia imo - they pretty much cut out the crap. And that evolution continued with Sticky Fingers - more of the same vibe of LIB. The evolution would then culminate with Exile - a tour de force of blues, country, rock, and gospel - and there you have the 'Big 4' considered by many to be their best. With all that said, it goes to the Stones credit that they can successfully embrace many genres of music and do it justice - sometimes it works better than others.
Well, we hear things differently here.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about mere small mellotron parts or residue off TSMR, but the overall vibe of tracks like JJF, Child Of The Moon, Jig Saw Puzzle, Stray Cat Blues, Parachute Woman and even SFTD.
The full transition to blues, rhythm and blues, rock'n'roll, country, americana didn't really happen before Exile, imo. Simply because it took time to make that transition, and because many of the tracks on albums like SF were from the 60s.
So, yes, it's a giant leap, but the overall freaky atmosphere is still there (and that's why BB is so great, imo).
Let's lay Their Satanic Majesty's Request aside here. I think what we're generally talking about is the Stones and psychedelia. Of course TSMR is the Stones' only true psychedelic album but they sure continued to flirt with the genre afterwards.
And yes, Child of The Moon, Stray Cat Blues, Jumping Jack Flash, Street Fighting Man, Sympathy For The Devil, Jigsaw Puzzle, Monkey Man, Moonlight Mile, Heaven, Continental Drift right through to Thru And Thru (especially the near 9 minute mix).
Listen to that crazed Velvets like guitar 'white out' at the end Stray Cat Blues and tell me that isn't psychedelic. Or that wild shenai on Street Fighting Man. Or that glissando-like guitar in the middle of Monkey Man that totally transforms the song and takes it to another level, almost worthy of an orchestra. These are all psychedelic flourishes and hangovers from 67.
You said it better than I did. Spot on, Mike
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Redhotcarpet
Jig Saw and Whos been sleeping here has some similarities in theme and mood.
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His MajestyQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
HMS
Child Of The Moon, just like We love You & Dandelion would have been a perfect fit for TSMR. That way it could have been a great album. The way it is, it´s partly great and partly disastrous.
And yes, there are traces of TSMR in Jigsaw Puzzle.
Even I can notice that
Child Of The Moon would've been a good fit... had they bothered to finish it.
But Jigsaw Puzzle having traces of TSRM? You don't notice things like that.
COTM did not exist at the time of TSMR being released.
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GasLightStreet
I never could figure out how PET SOUNDS influenced SGT PEPPER.
Because having listened to PET SOUNDS, it's just... horrible.
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How the Stones got into the SGT PEPPER territory is still a bit mind boggling. Even Keith thought TSMR was crap.
It's so unbelievable. It was so weird to make an album and not be on the road that it was totally UNLIKE recording. I liked a few songs, like 2000 Light Years, Citadel and She's a Rainbow, but basically I thought the album was a load of crap. That album was made under the pressure of the court cases and the whole scene that was going on in London at that time.
- Keith Richards, 1979
It's a fractured album. There are some good bits, and it's weird, and there's some real crap on it as well.
- Keith Richards, 1981
[timeisonourside.com]