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Svartmer

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alimente
It would be a sad world without Mr. Powderman explaining the basic essentials of man's wisdom...
However, unfair, ridiculous and stupid as I am (at least that's what you call me) I'd like to point out that your statement "in reality, the critics are spoiling people's fun" along with "the complaining is ... something that has a negative effect on the happy fans" is, at face value, a shameless message to tell critical people to piss off here, quite along the lines of that "mass banning"-request by "funny by self-proclamation" everwest1.
You may have noticed that I did not complain about their setlists for years now as I have come to terms with the fact that the adventurous days of this band are long gone - there won't be a Licks tour again, and I won't even mention their studio output.

Agree with you. The message here seems to be "of course everyone is entitled to have an opinion - as long as it is positive". Well over 90 % of the posts in this thread are positive, but obviously that isn´t enough. Consensus rules.

Why shouldn't the complainers stomach a counter-argument, just as much as a happy fan should tolerate criticism?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-16 16:43 by DandelionPowderman.

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Svartmer

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alimente
It would be a sad world without Mr. Powderman explaining the basic essentials of man's wisdom...
However, unfair, ridiculous and stupid as I am (at least that's what you call me) I'd like to point out that your statement "in reality, the critics are spoiling people's fun" along with "the complaining is ... something that has a negative effect on the happy fans" is, at face value, a shameless message to tell critical people to piss off here, quite along the lines of that "mass banning"-request by "funny by self-proclamation" everwest1.
You may have noticed that I did not complain about their setlists for years now as I have come to terms with the fact that the adventurous days of this band are long gone - there won't be a Licks tour again, and I won't even mention their studio output.

Agree with you. The message here seems to be "of course everyone is entitled to have an opinion - as long as it is positive". Well over 90 % of the posts in this thread are positive, but obviously that isn´t enough. Consensus rules.

Yes there is here some who cant tolerate ANY criticism EVER and I dont like that either. But being a fan, that is someone who still enjoy and cherish, there's a point in be pissed of constant: boring, what a bore, same old, HTW.. show is over and the like

I mean, if something bores you so deep silence is an option - not silencing

are you a sports fan? soccer? basket?

what about me in the same "room" with you watching a game and constantly telling you how much I dont like the way your favourite team play



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-16 16:56 by maumau.

Even repeated criticism (which people might find stupid or even offensive) should be allowed, imo. But one can't expect that people agree with you. Not cheering or praising it doesn't mean that it's no room for it. It is you who criticise, then you're gonna have to take the counter-arguments as well.

Should be simple, really.

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DandelionPowderman

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Svartmer

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alimente
It would be a sad world without Mr. Powderman explaining the basic essentials of man's wisdom...
However, unfair, ridiculous and stupid as I am (at least that's what you call me) I'd like to point out that your statement "in reality, the critics are spoiling people's fun" along with "the complaining is ... something that has a negative effect on the happy fans" is, at face value, a shameless message to tell critical people to piss off here, quite along the lines of that "mass banning"-request by "funny by self-proclamation" everwest1.
You may have noticed that I did not complain about their setlists for years now as I have come to terms with the fact that the adventurous days of this band are long gone - there won't be a Licks tour again, and I won't even mention their studio output.

Agree with you. The message here seems to be "of course everyone is entitled to have an opinion - as long as it is positive". Well over 90 % of the posts in this thread are positive, but obviously that isn´t enough. Consensus rules.

Why shouldn't the complainers stomach a counter-argument, just as much as a happy fan should tolerate criticism?

I´m convinced that the so called complainers or whiners can take an argument, no problem. But I just felt that your earlier comment was somewhat contradictory, that´s all.

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Svartmer

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DandelionPowderman

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Svartmer

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alimente
It would be a sad world without Mr. Powderman explaining the basic essentials of man's wisdom...
However, unfair, ridiculous and stupid as I am (at least that's what you call me) I'd like to point out that your statement "in reality, the critics are spoiling people's fun" along with "the complaining is ... something that has a negative effect on the happy fans" is, at face value, a shameless message to tell critical people to piss off here, quite along the lines of that "mass banning"-request by "funny by self-proclamation" everwest1.
You may have noticed that I did not complain about their setlists for years now as I have come to terms with the fact that the adventurous days of this band are long gone - there won't be a Licks tour again, and I won't even mention their studio output.

Agree with you. The message here seems to be "of course everyone is entitled to have an opinion - as long as it is positive". Well over 90 % of the posts in this thread are positive, but obviously that isn´t enough. Consensus rules.

Why shouldn't the complainers stomach a counter-argument, just as much as a happy fan should tolerate criticism?

I´m convinced that the so called complainers or whiners can take an argument, no problem. But I just felt that your earlier comment was somewhat contradictory, that´s all.

Maybe I worded it clumsily, but this is the core of my post. Which part don't you agree with (so I'm understanding what you're saying here):

«Spoiling people's fun is indeed different than replying back at those who do that, though. In spite of that, criticism should be allowed, of course. But both sides should be able to take a counter-argument on it, imo»

Kind of a fun video showing before the show...
another view of the intro and some more... 13 minutes, various songs
[www.youtube.com]

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DandelionPowderman

We've been discussing the setlists here since 1997. And we will in the future

But when someone says a setlist is shitty, anyone has the same right to say it's not. It's a two-way street.

Please DO NOT discuss set lists here. There is a separate thread on set lists, where I will say my personal opinion related to this topic:

The Rolling Stones set list discussions

[www.iorr.org]

Bjornulf

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bv

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DandelionPowderman

We've been discussing the setlists here since 1997. And we will in the future

But when someone says a setlist is shitty, anyone has the same right to say it's not. It's a two-way street.

Please DO NOT discuss set lists here. There is a separate thread on set lists, where I will say my personal opinion related to this topic:

The Rolling Stones set list discussions

[www.iorr.org]

I meant here, as in IORR, not in this thread.

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DandelionPowderman

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Svartmer

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DandelionPowderman

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Svartmer

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alimente
It would be a sad world without Mr. Powderman explaining the basic essentials of man's wisdom...
However, unfair, ridiculous and stupid as I am (at least that's what you call me) I'd like to point out that your statement "in reality, the critics are spoiling people's fun" along with "the complaining is ... something that has a negative effect on the happy fans" is, at face value, a shameless message to tell critical people to piss off here, quite along the lines of that "mass banning"-request by "funny by self-proclamation" everwest1.
You may have noticed that I did not complain about their setlists for years now as I have come to terms with the fact that the adventurous days of this band are long gone - there won't be a Licks tour again, and I won't even mention their studio output.

Agree with you. The message here seems to be "of course everyone is entitled to have an opinion - as long as it is positive". Well over 90 % of the posts in this thread are positive, but obviously that isn´t enough. Consensus rules.

Why shouldn't the complainers stomach a counter-argument, just as much as a happy fan should tolerate criticism?

I´m convinced that the so called complainers or whiners can take an argument, no problem. But I just felt that your earlier comment was somewhat contradictory, that´s all.

Maybe I worded it clumsily, but this is the core of my post. Which part don't you agree with (so I'm understanding what you're saying here):

«Spoiling people's fun is indeed different than replying back at those who do that, though. In spite of that, criticism should be allowed, of course. But both sides should be able to take a counter-argument on it, imo»

Nice of you to take your time to explain the basics of a democratic society.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-16 18:06 by Svartmer.

hi Svartmer, just curious, would you like me to be watching a game with you telling you again and again how much i dont like the way your fav team plays?

would you be democratic or, at some point, f me off?

I am completely against patrolling but, as DP said very well: you cant really complain if someone gets a little pissed off

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maumau
hi Svartmer, just curious, would you like me to be watching a game with you telling you again and again how much i dont like the way your fav team plays?

would you be democratic or, at some point, f me off?

I am completely against patrolling but, as DP said very well: you cant really complain if someone gets a little pissed off

You're most welcome, I don't particularly appreciate the way my team plays, but I like them anyway

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Svartmer

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maumau
hi Svartmer, just curious, would you like me to be watching a game with you telling you again and again how much i dont like the way your fav team plays?

would you be democratic or, at some point, f me off?

I am completely against patrolling but, as DP said very well: you cant really complain if someone gets a little pissed off

You're most welcome, I don't particularly appreciate the way my team plays, but I like them anyway

ahahhahah smart reply Svartmer

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everwest1
The so called "set list whiners" and so called "cheer leaders" have been going at it online since the B2B tour on the old fashioned scrolling bulletin boards called "Back Stage" and "Voodoo Lounge" or something like that... back in 1994-95.

so lol, I don't think anyone is going to take away the set list whiners right to whine... but saying it sure makes them jumpy, it is kind of funny.

Voodoo Lounge - I thought I was the only one that remembered the group. At the Vegas '97 concert - Voodoo Lounge, Undercover and another group - maybe the Sticky Fingers mailing list, met at the Hard Rock one afternoon. We overflowed the bar. I remember the Voodoo Loungers being a fun group. Not long after Voodoo Lounge disappeared. The members probably moved onto UC, the AOL chat room that became Shidoobee, IORR and Rocks Off.

We were complaining about the setlist then too - the only change in setlists that fall from night to night tended to be the web vote. Which was easy to manipulate since people could spend an entire afternoon voting, 1,000 or more times. The Stones would look at the choice we spent days voting for - over and over, hundreds of times and then choose not the winner, but their choice. We complained a lot about that.

That is the Stones in a nutshell - they give you as much to rave about as they do to complain about. Anyone who has their pleasure ruined by the complaints is skipping the full ride - plunging to the valley is as much fun as climbing the mountain.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-16 20:01 by GlimmerGirl24.

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DandelionPowderman

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Svartmer

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alimente
It would be a sad world without Mr. Powderman explaining the basic essentials of man's wisdom...
However, unfair, ridiculous and stupid as I am (at least that's what you call me) I'd like to point out that your statement "in reality, the critics are spoiling people's fun" along with "the complaining is ... something that has a negative effect on the happy fans" is, at face value, a shameless message to tell critical people to piss off here, quite along the lines of that "mass banning"-request by "funny by self-proclamation" everwest1.
You may have noticed that I did not complain about their setlists for years now as I have come to terms with the fact that the adventurous days of this band are long gone - there won't be a Licks tour again, and I won't even mention their studio output.

Agree with you. The message here seems to be "of course everyone is entitled to have an opinion - as long as it is positive". Well over 90 % of the posts in this thread are positive, but obviously that isn´t enough. Consensus rules.

Why shouldn't the complainers stomach a counter-argument, just as much as a happy fan should tolerate criticism?

I think phrases like "shut up!", "go away!", "you are not a real fan!" in various incarnations or even name-calling like "whiner!" are not really counter arguments. Of course, repeated comments like "booooring", "yaaaaawn" and the like in show live updates threads are no substantial arguments either and can get quite annoying too. At least that's my impression of the way setlist discussions degenerated in recent times. The really interesting discussions are long gone. Whatever, at this stage I think setlist discussions are a waste of time anyway. A multi-generation spanning band with a rich catalog of songs like the Stones simply can't make each and everyone happy. Many older fans tend to get bored with more or less the same canon of songs and the more or less same presentation since 1989, while the younger generation(s) probably would be disappointed without the essential classics. That seems to be the general picture, exceptions notwithstanding.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-16 20:16 by alimente.

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GlimmerGirl24

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everwest1
The so called "set list whiners" and so called "cheer leaders" have been going at it online since the B2B tour on the old fashioned scrolling bulletin boards called "Back Stage" and "Voodoo Lounge" or something like that... back in 1994-95.

so lol, I don't think anyone is going to take away the set list whiners right to whine... but saying it sure makes them jumpy, it is kind of funny.

Voodoo Lounge - I thought I was the only one that remembered the group. At the Vegas '97 concert - Voodoo Lounge, Undercover and another group - maybe the Sticky Fingers mailing list, met at the Hard Rock one afternoon. We overflowed the bar. I remember the Voodoo Loungers being a fun group. Not long after Voodoo Lounge disappeared. The members probably moved onto UC, the AOL chat room that became Shidoobee, IORR and Rocks Off.

FUN!!

I may have gotten the name wrong but it was something like those name and it was a scrolling format, basically one big scrolling thread with everyone talking at once. It was fun. The early days of the internet.

It was fun enough that I flew in for the board meetup in Columbus before the show at Ohio Stadium... and that was just one week after flying to Chicago for opening night of B2B. I think that board was run by a guy in Japan, his name is on the tip of my tongue... then that board shut down... and we migrated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-16 20:34 by everwest1.

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alimente

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DandelionPowderman

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Svartmer

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alimente
It would be a sad world without Mr. Powderman explaining the basic essentials of man's wisdom...
However, unfair, ridiculous and stupid as I am (at least that's what you call me) I'd like to point out that your statement "in reality, the critics are spoiling people's fun" along with "the complaining is ... something that has a negative effect on the happy fans" is, at face value, a shameless message to tell critical people to piss off here, quite along the lines of that "mass banning"-request by "funny by self-proclamation" everwest1.
You may have noticed that I did not complain about their setlists for years now as I have come to terms with the fact that the adventurous days of this band are long gone - there won't be a Licks tour again, and I won't even mention their studio output.

Agree with you. The message here seems to be "of course everyone is entitled to have an opinion - as long as it is positive". Well over 90 % of the posts in this thread are positive, but obviously that isn´t enough. Consensus rules.

Why shouldn't the complainers stomach a counter-argument, just as much as a happy fan should tolerate criticism?

I think phrases like "shut up!", "go away!", "you are not a real fan!" in various incarnations or even name-calling like "whiner!" are not really counter arguments. Of course, repeated comments like "booooring", "yaaaaawn" and the like in show live updates threads are no substantial arguments either and can get quite annoying too. At least that's my impression of the way setlist discussions degenerated in recent times. The really interesting discussions are long gone. Whatever, at this stage I think setlist discussions are a waste of time anyway. A multi-generation spanning band with a rich catalog of songs like the Stones simply can't make each and everyone happy. Many older fans tend to get bored with more or less the same canon of songs and the more or less same presentation since 1989, while the younger generation(s) probably would be disappointed without the essential classics. That seems to be the general picture, exceptions notwithstanding.

I agree with this.

Also, I think we should keep in mind that (probably) more than half of the people on here don't master the english language fluently. That may lead to us picking up words (like whining) that might be stronger than intended for getting our points across. I know that has happened to me several times. It can go the other way around as well, when posts are interpreted as more offensive than they actually are.

What I'm trying to say is that I don’t think a lot of people on here want to exclude anyone, no matter their opinion or stance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-17 19:37 by DandelionPowderman.

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everwest1

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GlimmerGirl24

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everwest1
The so called "set list whiners" and so called "cheer leaders" have been going at it online since the B2B tour on the old fashioned scrolling bulletin boards called "Back Stage" and "Voodoo Lounge" or something like that... back in 1994-95.

so lol, I don't think anyone is going to take away the set list whiners right to whine... but saying it sure makes them jumpy, it is kind of funny.

Voodoo Lounge - I thought I was the only one that remembered the group. At the Vegas '97 concert - Voodoo Lounge, Undercover and another group - maybe the Sticky Fingers mailing list, met at the Hard Rock one afternoon. We overflowed the bar. I remember the Voodoo Loungers being a fun group. Not long after Voodoo Lounge disappeared. The members probably moved onto UC, the AOL chat room that became Shidoobee, IORR and Rocks Off.

FUN!!

I may have gotten the name wrong but it was something like those name and it was a scrolling format, basically one big scrolling thread with everyone talking at once. It was fun. The early days of the internet.

It was fun enough that I flew in for the board meetup in Columbus before the show at Ohio Stadium... and that was just one week after flying to Chicago for opening night of B2B. I think that board was run by a guy in Japan, his name is on the tip of my tongue... then that board shut down... and we migrated.

I remember Voodoo Lounge being a chat room that most evenings had a lively group in it. Mostly men.

Around the time Voodoo Lounge disappeared, Stonesdoug started the Monday night chats on AOL, which had more women.

My first Stones concert where I met people from Undercover was Columbus, '97. And since then, every Stones concert I've attended has been with people I've met through the various internet groups. Lots of camaraderie, delight and commiseration has been shared over setlists.

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GlimmerGirl24

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everwest1

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GlimmerGirl24

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everwest1
The so called "set list whiners" and so called "cheer leaders" have been going at it online since the B2B tour on the old fashioned scrolling bulletin boards called "Back Stage" and "Voodoo Lounge" or something like that... back in 1994-95.

so lol, I don't think anyone is going to take away the set list whiners right to whine... but saying it sure makes them jumpy, it is kind of funny.

Voodoo Lounge - I thought I was the only one that remembered the group. At the Vegas '97 concert - Voodoo Lounge, Undercover and another group - maybe the Sticky Fingers mailing list, met at the Hard Rock one afternoon. We overflowed the bar. I remember the Voodoo Loungers being a fun group. Not long after Voodoo Lounge disappeared. The members probably moved onto UC, the AOL chat room that became Shidoobee, IORR and Rocks Off.

FUN!!

I may have gotten the name wrong but it was something like those name and it was a scrolling format, basically one big scrolling thread with everyone talking at once. It was fun. The early days of the internet.

It was fun enough that I flew in for the board meetup in Columbus before the show at Ohio Stadium... and that was just one week after flying to Chicago for opening night of B2B. I think that board was run by a guy in Japan, his name is on the tip of my tongue... then that board shut down... and we migrated.

I remember Voodoo Lounge being a chat room that most evenings had a lively group in it. Mostly men.

Around the time Voodoo Lounge disappeared, Stonesdoug started the Monday night chats on AOL, which had more women.

My first Stones concert where I met people from Undercover was Columbus, '97. And since then, every Stones concert I've attended has been with people I've met through the various internet groups. Lots of camaraderie, delight and commiseration has been shared over setlists.

That wasnt Cleo's house party was it? BL was there and some other folks, it was but short and sweet and then off to the show and not much after party for various reason, but I am glad I went to it, other wise I would have missed that show. B2B was not even released yet but somehow I had a copy... hmmm I guess from my buddy who I met I met in Cleveland and drove down with... or something.... but it was fun.

The chat room I mostly posted in seemed to be about half and half guys and gals and was going all hours... and weekends... had posters from around the world, it was great.