Buying vinyl is really a hit and miss thing nowadays. You never know what's the source used : CD quality digital master, hi-res digital master, highly compressed digital master, analogue master but digitally remastered... That's why most of the time I don't bother buying modern vinyl. One exception is when I can find a vinyl with the CD of the same album inserted in the gatefold. Actually I think that every time you buy a vinyl you should get the CD and also access to a hi-res digital download. I'm getting tired of having to buy the same album on mutiple formats...
This said, if done properly, some vinyl made from digital master can sound great and better than the CD (The Stones From the Vaults series comes to mind). But I agree it's a loss of time (and money) to buy a digital remaster on vinyl of an old album...

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whitem8
I got a lot of them. Not all. And not too impressed by their sound quality. Lots of pops and hisses. Doesn't seem like a high quality pressing. Usually, colored vinyl is sub par.

I've always understood this to be a fallacy. The quality of a pressing doesn't have as much to do with the color of the vinyl as it does with the formulation of the vinyl. After all, black vinyl IS colored vinyl.

I think it's a sham. I'm not hearing a massively big difference on vinyl if the source is decent. And to charge $30 for an album that sold for $5.99, what a joke. It seems like some prank they're pulling on these amish bearded hipsters here in the States. Like they would know what they hell a vinyl record is supposed to sound like. I loved it when CDs came along. No more loss in quality over playings, no dust, no skip. I heard things in the recordings I hadn't caught before. Some of them were downright awesome, like Buddy Holly. And when the early Stones were remastered in 2002, that was fantastic. (And SACDs still are).

I listen to CD compilations that I put together, and I listen at home or in the car. But I also listen to a hell of a lot of my music on BluRay, such as live Stones, and you can't beat that with vinyl. Sure I miss real albums, with a concept that holds it all together. And the artwork, etc. But vinyl sometimes sounds better, sometimes not. It's a silly fad.

Kowalski, Keith's new solo album, The Cult's CHOICE OF WEAPON and as far as I know their newest one, HIDDEN CITY, all the Drive-By Truckers albums and as far as I know all of Jason Isbell's albums have been recorded on 2 inch analog.

Do you think that still matters regarding getting the vinyl issue of the album? As far as I'm aware when bands use tape to record then separate masters are made for:

- the vinyl release
- the CD release
- the iTunes release

I won't claim other mediums because I don't know if any of them have released albums in other mediums but I would think that a CD master would not be used for iTunes or, for that matter, MP3 or whatever it is or will be (or was). And I really don't know if an album is recorded completely digitally if the mastering is different for CD as well as iTunes and whatever.

It's funny how Star Wars 7 was done mostly on film and Star Wars 8 isbeing done mostly on film as well. I suppose somewhere someone will use the magnetic way of recording things.

I agree with every word Kowalski said. Right down to the fact that you SHOULD get a CD or digital download in every copy, just so you can at least have the ability to hear the album in other ways (car, iPod, computer) since nowadays you really aren't always around your record player.

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mighty stork
RollingFreak, I have to agree with most of what you said. I'm 59 so vinyl has always been the first choice for me since I started buying music. My collection is now over 3,000 albums and although I don't listen to every one I do play at least 1 or 2 a day. My system is old but reliable and the sound is great to my ears. Like you I enjoyed buying things I had passed on earlier when everyone was going CD over vinyl and the prices were very low. I can still find some good deals now but like you said many prices have jumped up to or over the price of the original pressing. But I have to disagree that a CD or a download sounds as good and people should just go with that. Huge differance in overall sound in my opinion.

I totally get that and agree with it. I don't mean that CDs are better, but I just mean the convenience is too much to ignore. It gives you what is usually a pretty great sounding copy of the album, and you have the ability to burn it, keep it in the car, lend it to someone. Yeah, the record might sound better, but for the money only hi-fi audio listeners really care. And in my example of the Bowie thing, YOU'D hear it cause you grew up with vinyl, and I'd have a hard time believing my friend actually heard the difference. Hell, I love the IDEA of buying vinyl when its an album that seems made for it. When I hear a new album I really like, I've bought the vinyl (Arctic Monkeys comes to mind, and Prince's semi-recent album as well). They were $15, but they were 40 minute albums that felt made for that vinyl experience.

So I still like the idea when it works. Its still a cool novelty. But I hate those that like to think they actually care, when really its just the retro thing nowadays, and I especially hate buying a record today thats not made for vinyl. The 2-3 songs on every side adding up to 12 minute total just because its an hour long album so they have to justify the double vinyl. F that, just buy the CD. No one's making music FOR vinyl nowadays, as opposed to the records I used to collect which were actually the way you listened to them. Thats why I enjoyed doing it. It was my conduit to hearing something for cheap, as the artist intended it, and then buying it digitally if I liked it. Basically a sampler of sorts. My dad has been getting into buying vinyl again since he just got a really nice new record player and the joke around our house when he plays anything on it is "it really sounds warmer doesn't it!??" knowing full well we both really can't tell the difference that much.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-10 08:38 by RollingFreak.

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GasLightStreet
Kowalski, Keith's new solo album, The Cult's CHOICE OF WEAPON and as far as I know their newest one, HIDDEN CITY, all the Drive-By Truckers albums and as far as I know all of Jason Isbell's albums have been recorded on 2 inch analog.

Do you think that still matters regarding getting the vinyl issue of the album? As far as I'm aware when bands use tape to record then separate masters are made for:

- the vinyl release
- the CD release
- the iTunes release

I won't claim other mediums because I don't know if any of them have released albums in other mediums but I would think that a CD master would not be used for iTunes or, for that matter, MP3 or whatever it is or will be (or was). And I really don't know if an album is recorded completely digitally if the mastering is different for CD as well as iTunes and whatever.

It's funny how Star Wars 7 was done mostly on film and Star Wars 8 isbeing done mostly on film as well. I suppose somewhere someone will use the magnetic way of recording things.

Not sure to fully understand what's your question but, about the source, I don't think it's that important whether it's analog or digital. I've heard excellent vinyl made from digitally recorded masters : Primal Scream's last album is really sounding great on vinyl, Robert Plant's last album too is sounding great on vinyl, though both albums are probably from digital recordings as the HD downloads of both albums avaible are in 24 bit / 44.1kHz quality.

About the difference of masters between vinyl, CD and iTunes, it also depends on artists choices (or record company's choice). For example Neil Young is well known for recording and mixing fully analog and releasing his albums on vinyl from the original analog master. He then does a different digital master for the HD releases (actually a digital transfer of the analog master) in 24 bit/192kHz quality (exclusively available on Pono website). And then again a different master exists for the CD release and the iTunes release. I've noticed on some albums they're slightly louder with peaks slightly limited. So in the case of Neil Young, I guess you can talk of 3 different masters, each made for a different purpose.

Now about Keith Richards' last album I can't tell what was used for the vinyl release. But it's probably the same digital master that's available on HDTracks, Qobuz, etc. in 24 bit / 96kHz. I've compared this HD digital release to the CD release and except the difference in bits (24 bit vs. 16 bit) and samples (96kHz vs. 44.1kHz) they looked quite similar (ie loud and compressed dynamic range) and the CD master is probably a downsampling of the HD master.

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Roscoe

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whitem8
I got a lot of them. Not all. And not too impressed by their sound quality. Lots of pops and hisses. Doesn't seem like a high quality pressing. Usually, colored vinyl is sub par.

I've always understood this to be a fallacy. The quality of a pressing doesn't have as much to do with the color of the vinyl as it does with the formulation of the vinyl. After all, black vinyl IS colored vinyl.

Well I go by experience. i have a lot of colored vinyl and hands down they do not sound as good as normal pressings. The Let it Bleed clear vinyl was a big disappointment with a lot of pops and static sound. Poor pressing. I have one colored vinyl that sounds superb, Bowie's recent re-release of 1.Outside. Sounds great!

If the material is good, the coloured vinyl will be good as well.

Some save the cost on material, though, because they're offering a «cool» coloured vinyl.

All the 180g coloured vinyl on new releases today that I've purchased have been excellent.

And the pink Miss You vinyl is really great as well. Not to mention my splatter coloured Europe '73 vinyl.

the pity with nowadays vinyl is for me price the price ...
I used to buy new LP in the 90's and they were about twice as cheap as the CDs (10-12 vs 20-24 €), and now it's the opposite ! It's true that the last Plant LP sounds very good bit its costed me about 35 euros for 3 sides ...
The From the Vaults series give you 6 sides for about the same price.
The price is mainly driven by marketing guys willing to earn more ?
I've seen some Dylan reissue sold for more than 40 euros before Christmas !
Hopefully, it's still possible to find some cheap treasure at some garage sale, but it's rare. I wonder how long will last the hype !

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kowalski

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GasLightStreet
Kowalski, Keith's new solo album, The Cult's CHOICE OF WEAPON and as far as I know their newest one, HIDDEN CITY, all the Drive-By Truckers albums and as far as I know all of Jason Isbell's albums have been recorded on 2 inch analog.

Do you think that still matters regarding getting the vinyl issue of the album? As far as I'm aware when bands use tape to record then separate masters are made for:

- the vinyl release
- the CD release
- the iTunes release

I won't claim other mediums because I don't know if any of them have released albums in other mediums but I would think that a CD master would not be used for iTunes or, for that matter, MP3 or whatever it is or will be (or was). And I really don't know if an album is recorded completely digitally if the mastering is different for CD as well as iTunes and whatever.

It's funny how Star Wars 7 was done mostly on film and Star Wars 8 isbeing done mostly on film as well. I suppose somewhere someone will use the magnetic way of recording things.

Not sure to fully understand what's your question but, about the source, I don't think it's that important whether it's analog or digital. I've heard excellent vinyl made from digitally recorded masters : Primal Scream's last album is really sounding great on vinyl, Robert Plant's last album too is sounding great on vinyl, though both albums are probably from digital recordings as the HD downloads of both albums avaible are in 24 bit / 44.1kHz quality.

About the difference of masters between vinyl, CD and iTunes, it also depends on artists choices (or record company's choice). For example Neil Young is well known for recording and mixing fully analog and releasing his albums on vinyl from the original analog master. He then does a different digital master for the HD releases (actually a digital transfer of the analog master) in 24 bit/192kHz quality (exclusively available on Pono website). And then again a different master exists for the CD release and the iTunes release. I've noticed on some albums they're slightly louder with peaks slightly limited. So in the case of Neil Young, I guess you can talk of 3 different masters, each made for a different purpose.

Now about Keith Richards' last album I can't tell what was used for the vinyl release. But it's probably the same digital master that's available on HDTracks, Qobuz, etc. in 24 bit / 96kHz. I've compared this HD digital release to the CD release and except the difference in bits (24 bit vs. 16 bit) and samples (96kHz vs. 44.1kHz) they looked quite similar (ie loud and compressed dynamic range) and the CD master is probably a downsampling of the HD master.

What I meant by if recording to analog still matters in terms of mastering, when those masters are made for vinyl they aren't used for anything else. I would think so. I suppose part of it is the technology's changed but the mastering for vinyl these days - still done old skool? I've never read anywhere that it's mastered to tape for a vinyl master to be made. I guess that's as specific as I can get. I know they've used vinyl masters for CD masters but that was in the 1980s (and something tells me that MCA Records still does this since they're cheap ass bastards that don't give a shit).

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whitem8

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Roscoe

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whitem8
I got a lot of them. Not all. And not too impressed by their sound quality. Lots of pops and hisses. Doesn't seem like a high quality pressing. Usually, colored vinyl is sub par.

I've always understood this to be a fallacy. The quality of a pressing doesn't have as much to do with the color of the vinyl as it does with the formulation of the vinyl. After all, black vinyl IS colored vinyl.

Well I go by experience. i have a lot of colored vinyl and hands down they do not sound as good as normal pressings. The Let it Bleed clear vinyl was a big disappointment with a lot of pops and static sound. Poor pressing. I have one colored vinyl that sounds superb, Bowie's recent re-release of 1.Outside. Sounds great!

I found this, this makes sense: Carbon black (a commodity raw material) gets added to the PVC that vinyl plants use, to make the records more durable.
Records pressed on non-black vinyl will not last as long.

[www.discogs.com]

I have an ok mid range system, speakers, some nice tube amps, nothing crazy, not crap. I grew up with albums and tossed them in for CDs and maxell tapes for live dead. Friend of the family passed away a few years back and the guy had a nice table (SOTA) & tone arm (Zeta) and his wife wanted it to go to someone who cared about music and the equipment. Ends up in my hands. So out of respect to the person I start buying some stuff. Get some stuff for gifts, etc... Some stuff is meh, no better worse that digi. Some other stuff just rips man, the sound is outrageous. I am by no means a hipster, just a guy sharing the passion of a passed away music lover by keeping his rig going. There is no denying, from my ears, friends ears, wife's ears, that some stuff just sounds better on the record...some sounds like absolute crap. I like the stones releases FTV. Listen to them far more than I watch the DVDS. anyway

Hipsters, tripsters, real cool chicks, sir
'Cause everyone's doin' that rag

Hey yeah good ta see ya runnin' a SOTA ... incredible Turntable
I gotta SOTA Sapphire full of buck-shot ... Ya could jack-hammer beside it and that needle won't jump ...



ROCKMAN

SOTA looks like great stuff !

http://www.sotaturntables.com/newtables/millennia.htm

but could be mighty pricey

Mmmm..the millennia one sure looks safe, but the rest reminds me of boxes for cuban cigars...are they really good?

2 1 2 0

it's just a matter of fashion. moreover vinyl or vinyl the problem is not that. in my opinion is not a vinyl or mp3 to change the way you listen to music. I mean knowing how to listen it is something that goes beyond the instrument itself.

I like mine as well, as Rockman say thing is built like a tank and filled with lead, floating suspension, but its one of the "cigar box" ones... star is what its called. Vacuum holds the record to the platter, which is neat, don't always turn it on though. The one I'm using is from 1986 :-0 I also just picked up a pro-ject carbon dc w/ ortofon cart on amazon for $270. Wasn't looking for another table, but thought that was a decent deal for the price so I grabbed it.

OOOwwww yeah and vacuum mat ..... Cool forsure ..... SUCK dat vinyl down



ROCKMAN

Oh yeah and SOTA stands for ------ State Of The Art



ROCKMAN

Hello People!

Here is a subject I like!

To avoid misunderstandings, I should clarify that there are 2 main types of Vinyl LP's produced nowadays:

- the LP's produced from low quality digital sources (these represent, unfortunately, most of the LP's that non-advised consumers buy at record stores). These kind of products do only exist to catch the hype on Vinyl that exists today. Avoid them, even if they have a sticker "180 gram"...
Buy a CD or digital download, will be cheaper and will actually sound better, because the vinyl quality, as well as pressing methods are mediocre, at best.

- The serious, and professional stuff, made by top engineers, using the master analog tapes, using High-end devices, top Quality vinyl, extreme care reproducing original artwork; this kind of vinyl really, and I mean really, shows You the far superior Sound Quality of analog recordings (and You do Not have to spend tremendous amount of money in a hi-fi system- You just have to sit down and listen; It's as easy as that!

Below You can find links to some of the best companies in the world that produce this kind of LP's:

-- Speaker's Corner
www.speakerscornerrecords.com

-- Mobile Fidelity
Www.mofi.com

-- Music Matters
www.musicmattersjazz.com

-- Quality Records
www.qualityrecordspressings.com
[store.acousticsounds.com]

-- Analog Planet
www.analogplanet.com

One can say, "yeah, right, but it Is more expensive"...

Indeed, it is; but let me explain with an example I know well:

I work in a wine company: we do sell around 17.000.000 bottles per year; and our best selling Brand retails in the US for $7,99.
We do produce other wines, that have a Retail price, way over $40,00.
What Is the diference? Both are wine, red, and pair well with Food, cheeses, etc.
Well, as I wrote some lines above: sit down and drink, You will Taste the diference; It's as easy as that.

Analog all the way Baby!

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marquess
Hello People!

Here is a subject I like!

To avoid misunderstandings, I should clarify that there are 2 main types of Vinyl LP's produced nowadays:

- the LP's produced from low quality digital sources (these represent, unfortunately, most of the LP's that non-advised consumers buy at record stores). These kind of products do only exist to catch the hype on Vinyl that exists today. Avoid them, even if they have a sticker "180 gram"...
Buy a CD or digital download, will be cheaper and will actually sound better, because the vinyl quality, as well as pressing methods are mediocre, at best.

- The serious, and professional stuff, made by top engineers, using the master analog tapes, using High-end devices, top Quality vinyl, extreme care reproducing original artwork; this kind of vinyl really, and I mean really, shows You the far superior Sound Quality of analog recordings (and You do Not have to spend tremendous amount of money in a hi-fi system- You just have to sit down and listen; It's as easy as that!
...

Thing is nowadays masters are most of the time digital and quite often in 44kHz CD quality. Morevover even if originally recorded on tapes, it happens quite often it's then mixed and mastered digitally.

For example, here's Tony Visconti explaining how he recorded David Bowie's Reality album (in 2003) :

"We initially recorded to 16-track analogue tape because I just love the sound. I'd talked David into working that way on Heathen — I told him it was really worth doing, because we'd capture the analogue compression and warmth on digital. When we'd transfer it, the sound would still be there, and that proved to be right on Heathen, so we started this new album in exactly the same way. I used about 10 tracks for drums, as well as one or two tracks for the bass and one or two tracks for the guitar. We'd then fly those 13 or 14 tracks over into Logic."

From : [www.soundonsound.com]

Vinyl never left, so how could it return?

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Anitapal82
Today I don't care what format it is , I just want to hear the song !

This is like saying you don't care what restaurant you go to, as long as they have food.

I like vinyl and always prefer it, but only for the charm of it; putting that needle on, bigger artwork etc.
But the price is so high, it's ridiculous. Especially if it's just the CD-master on vinyl.
90% of the albums sound better on CD. I always hope the CD is included if I buy an album.

By the way, the '180grams-story' is just a marketing scam.

But the price is so high, it's ridiculous. Especially if it's just the CD-master on vinyl.

Exactly ... And the record companies are running with it $$$$$$$$$$'s rule



ROCKMAN

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treaclefingers

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Anitapal82
Today I don't care what format it is , I just want to hear the song !

This is like saying you don't care what restaurant you go to, as long as they have food.

><

Hi you lot,

On the random off chance that any of you do, as many of you have lots of amazing knowledge across on a broad range of subjects, do any of you have practical experience of manufacturing vinyl records in volume?

I'd appreciate having an exchange with anyone who does.

Cheers,
SonicD

Though I'm a true analogue "Ludite" , I don't think that mastering vinyl from digital masters necessarily renders it pointless.

The pro standard digital standards these days are much better . It's the inferior CD and compressed formats like MP3 that really fail to deliver.

In short, if you do a good job of putting a digital master on vinyl, it will be better than the same transfer to the inferior CD medium.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-02-15 16:26 by Spud.

Lots of new vinyl albums come with a mp3 download voucher or a CD – like the brilliant new Motorpsycho album, which I'm listening to right now

[www.youtube.com]

Most bands who perform in smaller clubs nowadays bring their vinyls for a reasonable price, the same goes for some of the vinyl shops.
Some of my Sixties vinyls still sound great!