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Turner68
in addition to forming the band, i believe brian supplied the band with a heavy shot of blues that was otherwise lacking. this obviously is a core part of the band's identity, and is thanks to brian primarily. and that's exactly why they went out and hired mick taylor to replace brian - they felt they needed a guitarist with a heavy blues influence and MT was the best available. keith's position was as the chuck berry r-n-r guitarist in both of those combinations. (and yes i know keith liked the blues and brian and MT played chuck berry...)

in the mid 70s they'd left the blues legacy far far behind - reggae and country were more interesting - and the goal for the second guitarist was to lubricate mick and keith's relationship, and they went a completely different direction.

i believe these simple facts explain a lot of the tension in arguments between stones fans.

Well said. After MT had left the 'third man' became musically irrelevant, but socially important. A totally new band had come into being.

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kleermaker

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Turner68
in addition to forming the band, i believe brian supplied the band with a heavy shot of blues that was otherwise lacking. this obviously is a core part of the band's identity, and is thanks to brian primarily. and that's exactly why they went out and hired mick taylor to replace brian - they felt they needed a guitarist with a heavy blues influence and MT was the best available. keith's position was as the chuck berry r-n-r guitarist in both of those combinations. (and yes i know keith liked the blues and brian and MT played chuck berry...)

in the mid 70s they'd left the blues legacy far far behind - reggae and country were more interesting - and the goal for the second guitarist was to lubricate mick and keith's relationship, and they went a completely different direction.

i believe these simple facts explain a lot of the tension in arguments between stones fans.

Well said. After MT had left the 'third man' became musically irrelevant, but socially important. A totally new band had come into being.

wow...very well articulated by the both of you

Ronnie had huge part in making SG such a great success. Irrelevant? Well, they needed that success after GHS, IORR and partly BAB.

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DandelionPowderman
Ronnie had huge part in making SG such a great success. Irrelevant? Well, they needed that success after GHS, IORR and partly BAB.

Not to slag Ronnie, but I would wager that the biggest part of the success of Some Girls was MJ himself, shaking it up with some disco and punk.

One might even say that Billy Preston, writing Miss You was the biggest single contribution (uncredited to boot) to that album's massive success. Miss You sold Some Girls, like a great single is supposed to do.

The frontman always has the biggest part in selling a single.

Musically, Ronnie was very important for SG.

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman
Ronnie had huge part in making SG such a great success. Irrelevant? Well, they needed that success after GHS, IORR and partly BAB.

Not to slag Ronnie, but I would wager that the biggest part of the success of Some Girls was MJ himself, shaking it up with some disco and punk.

One might even say that Billy Preston, writing Miss You was the biggest single contribution (uncredited to boot) to that album's massive success. Miss You sold Some Girls, like a great single is supposed to do.

Yeah Jagger seemed to me to be driving the "new" direction of the music more than ever on Some Girls but I no doubt Ronnie played really well and it was hard not to notice his many contributions to the record. They all seemed to come together to make this one a success.

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howled
Bill Wyman seems like a tool to me and he can't wait to tell everybody what he did with his tool.

He didn't even play bass on JJF.

As far as I know, Brian was with Stu and Mick was with Keith and they all joined up, so someone starting it is not it, it was a combining.

Brian started the band. Sorry. Bill Wyman wrote the JJF riff. Sorry.

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Redhotcarpet

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howled
Bill Wyman seems like a tool to me and he can't wait to tell everybody what he did with his tool.

He didn't even play bass on JJF.

As far as I know, Brian was with Stu and Mick was with Keith and they all joined up, so someone starting it is not it, it was a combining.

Brian started the band. Sorry. Bill Wyman wrote the JJF riff. Sorry.

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.
- Bill Wyman, 1982

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman
Ronnie had huge part in making SG such a great success. Irrelevant? Well, they needed that success after GHS, IORR and partly BAB.

Not to slag Ronnie, but I would wager that the biggest part of the success of Some Girls was MJ himself, shaking it up with some disco and punk.

One might even say that Billy Preston, writing Miss You was the biggest single contribution (uncredited to boot) to that album's massive success. Miss You sold Some Girls, like a great single is supposed to do.

Look at the prodigious amount of solid material that was recorded between 77'-81'(several of these being Ronnie's), to say he wasn't a third in a "big three", is kind of improbable. A new guy steps in, the band suddenly begins to stretch stylistically in many directions, the new guy plays bass, pedal steel, slide, etc...... And he wouldn't be at the very least a catalyst??? Doubtful.

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mtaylor

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Redhotcarpet

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howled
Bill Wyman seems like a tool to me and he can't wait to tell everybody what he did with his tool.

He didn't even play bass on JJF.

As far as I know, Brian was with Stu and Mick was with Keith and they all joined up, so someone starting it is not it, it was a combining.

Brian started the band. Sorry. Bill Wyman wrote the JJF riff. Sorry.

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.
- Bill Wyman, 1982

Conclusion: Jagger and Richards wrote the song. Welcome at The Rolling Stones!

Bill seems to be supplying the Stones with a new commodity: sour grapes.

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kleermaker

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mtaylor

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Redhotcarpet

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howled
Bill Wyman seems like a tool to me and he can't wait to tell everybody what he did with his tool.

He didn't even play bass on JJF.

As far as I know, Brian was with Stu and Mick was with Keith and they all joined up, so someone starting it is not it, it was a combining.

Brian started the band. Sorry. Bill Wyman wrote the JJF riff. Sorry.

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.
- Bill Wyman, 1982

Conclusion: Jagger and Richards wrote the song. Welcome at The Rolling Stones!

That is a contrast to Keith's story about writing the riff and music at Redlands with Mick one morning. Who knows? It just seems strange for Bill to be taking credit for that one but perhaps he did influence the riff somewhat. Clearly the finished product with the distorted guitar and lyrics and such required much more work that a simple piano riff. I doubt Bill could have developed the song like Mick and Keith did, that's the true songwriting, imo.

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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mtaylor

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Redhotcarpet

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howled
Bill Wyman seems like a tool to me and he can't wait to tell everybody what he did with his tool.

He didn't even play bass on JJF.

As far as I know, Brian was with Stu and Mick was with Keith and they all joined up, so someone starting it is not it, it was a combining.

Brian started the band. Sorry. Bill Wyman wrote the JJF riff. Sorry.

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.
- Bill Wyman, 1982

Conclusion: Jagger and Richards wrote the song. Welcome at The Rolling Stones!

That is a contrast to Keith's story about writing the riff and music at Redlands with Mick one morning. Who knows? It just seems strange for Bill to be taking credit for that one but perhaps he did influence the riff somewhat. Clearly the finished product with the distorted guitar and lyrics and such required much more work that a simple piano riff. I doubt Bill could have developed the song like Mick and Keith did, that's the true songwriting, imo.

IMO it's often not as simple as either story... you hear a riff somewhere, it percolates in the back of your head, comes back to you a few weeks later slightly improved... who knows maybe keith had played bill the riff months earlier, or maybe bill did create it and keith forgot. memories are unreliable.

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Thrylan

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman
Ronnie had huge part in making SG such a great success. Irrelevant? Well, they needed that success after GHS, IORR and partly BAB.

Not to slag Ronnie, but I would wager that the biggest part of the success of Some Girls was MJ himself, shaking it up with some disco and punk.

One might even say that Billy Preston, writing Miss You was the biggest single contribution (uncredited to boot) to that album's massive success. Miss You sold Some Girls, like a great single is supposed to do.

Look at the prodigious amount of solid material that was recorded between 77'-81'(several of these being Ronnie's), to say he wasn't a third in a "big three", is kind of improbable. A new guy steps in, the band suddenly begins to stretch stylistically in many directions, the new guy plays bass, pedal steel, slide, etc...... And he wouldn't be at the very least a catalyst??? Doubtful.

Many people don't wanna get it. Lost case..

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kleermaker

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Turner68
in addition to forming the band, i believe brian supplied the band with a heavy shot of blues that was otherwise lacking. this obviously is a core part of the band's identity, and is thanks to brian primarily. and that's exactly why they went out and hired mick taylor to replace brian - they felt they needed a guitarist with a heavy blues influence and MT was the best available. keith's position was as the chuck berry r-n-r guitarist in both of those combinations. (and yes i know keith liked the blues and brian and MT played chuck berry...)

in the mid 70s they'd left the blues legacy far far behind - reggae and country were more interesting - and the goal for the second guitarist was to lubricate mick and keith's relationship, and they went a completely different direction.

i believe these simple facts explain a lot of the tension in arguments between stones fans.

Well said. After MT had left the 'third man' became musically irrelevant, but socially important. A totally new band had come into being.

Spot on. And the third man position was shared with others in 1975 and 1976 (Ollie Brown and Billie).

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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mtaylor

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Redhotcarpet

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howled
Bill Wyman seems like a tool to me and he can't wait to tell everybody what he did with his tool.

He didn't even play bass on JJF.

As far as I know, Brian was with Stu and Mick was with Keith and they all joined up, so someone starting it is not it, it was a combining.

Brian started the band. Sorry. Bill Wyman wrote the JJF riff. Sorry.

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.
- Bill Wyman, 1982

Conclusion: Jagger and Richards wrote the song. Welcome at The Rolling Stones!

That is a contrast to Keith's story about writing the riff and music at Redlands with Mick one morning. Who knows? It just seems strange for Bill to be taking credit for that one but perhaps he did influence the riff somewhat. Clearly the finished product with the distorted guitar and lyrics and such required much more work that a simple piano riff. I doubt Bill could have developed the song like Mick and Keith did, that's the true songwriting, imo.

Im not sure Ive read that Keith said he wrote the riff though. Maybe he said so but that is obviously a lie. He didn't write it. He tried to downplay its importance by saying it's just Satisfaction backwards.

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Turner68

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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mtaylor

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Redhotcarpet

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howled
Bill Wyman seems like a tool to me and he can't wait to tell everybody what he did with his tool.

He didn't even play bass on JJF.

As far as I know, Brian was with Stu and Mick was with Keith and they all joined up, so someone starting it is not it, it was a combining.

Brian started the band. Sorry. Bill Wyman wrote the JJF riff. Sorry.

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.
- Bill Wyman, 1982

Conclusion: Jagger and Richards wrote the song. Welcome at The Rolling Stones!

That is a contrast to Keith's story about writing the riff and music at Redlands with Mick one morning. Who knows? It just seems strange for Bill to be taking credit for that one but perhaps he did influence the riff somewhat. Clearly the finished product with the distorted guitar and lyrics and such required much more work that a simple piano riff. I doubt Bill could have developed the song like Mick and Keith did, that's the true songwriting, imo.

IMO it's often not as simple as either story... you hear a riff somewhere, it percolates in the back of your head, comes back to you a few weeks later slightly improved... who knows maybe keith had played bill the riff months earlier, or maybe bill did create it and keith forgot. memories are unreliable.

Nah, Bill wrote it. Mick and Keith are producers, they use their own material and others. They all say the same thing, you had to fight real hard and stick to your guns and maybe you'd get credit. Ronnie didn't fight, he stayed in the band. His role is not the same as Taylors, Cooder, Hopkins etc. He wanted to be a Rolling Stone and he got that job. He looked like the part early on.

YOU believe Bill wrote it. Even Charlie, who Bill claimed was working it with him says Mick and Keith wrote the song.

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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mtaylor

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Redhotcarpet

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howled
Bill Wyman seems like a tool to me and he can't wait to tell everybody what he did with his tool.

He didn't even play bass on JJF.

As far as I know, Brian was with Stu and Mick was with Keith and they all joined up, so someone starting it is not it, it was a combining.

Brian started the band. Sorry. Bill Wyman wrote the JJF riff. Sorry.

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.
- Bill Wyman, 1982

Conclusion: Jagger and Richards wrote the song. Welcome at The Rolling Stones!

That is a contrast to Keith's story about writing the riff and music at Redlands with Mick one morning. Who knows? It just seems strange for Bill to be taking credit for that one but perhaps he did influence the riff somewhat. Clearly the finished product with the distorted guitar and lyrics and such required much more work that a simple piano riff. I doubt Bill could have developed the song like Mick and Keith did, that's the true songwriting, imo.

Well, perhaps unless its Mick Taylor developing the song...in which case, why, its just back to who provided the original riff or melody once again... The Glimmer Believers shouldn't have it both ways that the credits should always come out the same.

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Redhotcarpet

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Naturalust

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kleermaker

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mtaylor

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Redhotcarpet

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howled
Bill Wyman seems like a tool to me and he can't wait to tell everybody what he did with his tool.

He didn't even play bass on JJF.

As far as I know, Brian was with Stu and Mick was with Keith and they all joined up, so someone starting it is not it, it was a combining.

Brian started the band. Sorry. Bill Wyman wrote the JJF riff. Sorry.

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.
- Bill Wyman, 1982

Conclusion: Jagger and Richards wrote the song. Welcome at The Rolling Stones!

That is a contrast to Keith's story about writing the riff and music at Redlands with Mick one morning. Who knows? It just seems strange for Bill to be taking credit for that one but perhaps he did influence the riff somewhat. Clearly the finished product with the distorted guitar and lyrics and such required much more work that a simple piano riff. I doubt Bill could have developed the song like Mick and Keith did, that's the true songwriting, imo.

Im not sure Ive read that Keith said he wrote the riff though. Maybe he said so but that is obviously a lie. He didn't write it...

Ah, so you must have been there...

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Redhotcarpet
Im not sure Ive read that Keith said he wrote the riff though. Maybe he said so but that is obviously a lie. He didn't write it. He tried to downplay its importance by saying it's just Satisfaction backwards.

I could swear it was Bill who said that. That he was playing Satisfaction in reverse, and that's what Keith took off and ran with. As near as I can tell, it's not the main riff that drives the verses that he's talking about, it's the bass and rhythm guitar line that closes the song. And opens it, on the studio version.

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DandelionPowderman
YOU believe Bill wrote it. Even Charlie, who Bill claimed was working it with him says Mick and Keith wrote the song.

I think some are trying to cause trouble, no one on this forum can seriously claim to know what happened.

What we do have in the music business is a long history of lawsuits when proper credit is not given: there is an established way to resolve a claim someone might have if they feel they were denied proper credit.

Chuck Berry sued John Lennon for using the line "here come old flatop" in come together and won for g*d's sake - it was a very high profile case from the same era. There was no secret about what to do if you felt someone stole your song.

Anyone who had a problem with the credits for the writing of the Stones songs could have and can come forward and challenge it in a court of law. There is so much money at stake, we have to assume they would if they could.

Anything else is just hot air as far as I'm concerned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-29 05:29 by Turner68.

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Turner68

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DandelionPowderman
YOU believe Bill wrote it. Even Charlie, who Bill claimed was working it with him says Mick and Keith wrote the song.

I think some are trying to cause trouble, no one on this forum can seriously claim to know what happened.

What we do have in the music business is a long history of lawsuits when proper credit is not given: there is an established way to resolve a claim someone might have if they feel they were denied proper credit.

Chuck Berry sued John Lennon for using the line "here come old flatop" in come together and won for g*d's sake - it was a very high profile case from the same era. There was no secret about what to do if you felt someone stole your song.

Anyone who had a problem with the credits for the writing of the Stones songs could have and can come forward and challenge it in a court of law. There is so much money at stake, we have to assume they would if they could.

Anything else is just hot air as far as I'm concerned.

Well put, Turner and DP. I can only assume that IF it were indeed the case that the Glimmers 'stole' Bill's riff that the only reason not to sue is that he was worried he'd be tossed out of the band... but then why would he want to work with guys stealing songs from him? So Bill is clearly off-base with no defense to not making M&K defend themselves in court if his allegation is true. And isn't it convenient that Bill says it was at a rehearsal studio, so we can't check any tape to see if what he says is true...

Of course, I like Bill, he's a great bass player, but it does seem he's a bit off-base here.

Here's what Keith said about the tune: (from timeisonourside site)

Mick and I were in my house (laughs) in England in the country... and we'd been up all night and it was 6:30 in the morning, a dismal day, you know, English, grey. And we were just both crashing, Mick was on the couch and I was in an armchair with a guitar and we were, like, on the verge. And suddenly this sound of these boots (laughs) went by the window, clump clump clump - really, I mean, you had to be there to hear it - and woke Mick up, What was that? And I said - I looked out the window and I thought, Oh, that's Jack, that's jumpin' Jack. You know and then we started to play with those words. But I mean, really, it was sort of virtually woke up out of a stupor by this guy's boots, he was my gardener, he was a great guy but he's another story. And but... I just said, That's Jack. Well he's leaping about a bit. Yeah, I said, it's jumpin' Jack and then flash came and suddenly we were wide awake and we started to work, you know. You never know when they're going to come."


The key word being "work" here. Bill may have been lazily riffing on a similar line or rhythm but it's pretty clear who did the work to turn it into a song.

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Turner68

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DandelionPowderman
YOU believe Bill wrote it. Even Charlie, who Bill claimed was working it with him says Mick and Keith wrote the song.

I think some are trying to cause trouble, no one on this forum can seriously claim to know what happened.

What we do have in the music business is a long history of lawsuits when proper credit is not given: there is an established way to resolve a claim someone might have if they feel they were denied proper credit.

Chuck Berry sued John Lennon for using the line "here come old flatop" in come together and won for g*d's sake - it was a very high profile case from the same era. There was no secret about what to do if you felt someone stole your song.

Anyone who had a problem with the credits for the writing of the Stones songs could have and can come forward and challenge it in a court of law. There is so much money at stake, we have to assume they would if they could.

Anything else is just hot air as far as I'm concerned.

I certainly don't know what actually transpired..of course not. But, no, we don't have to assume someone would sue. People may not sue for a myriad of reasons irrational or otherwise.

You notice Bill Wyman and Mick Taylor have never, I don't believe, used the term "steal", or "stolen" in their respective complaints over the years against the Glimmers. They talked about receiving "credit". Same thing you might say...they're claiming someone stole their credit in other words. Yes, that is implied, but their choice of language in instructive I believe. Sure they wouldn't turn down money I don't think, were it offered, but it seems to me their slant is a bit different. Should we assume their complaints are validated because the Glimmers never sued them for Slander?

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SweetThing

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Turner68

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DandelionPowderman
YOU believe Bill wrote it. Even Charlie, who Bill claimed was working it with him says Mick and Keith wrote the song.

I think some are trying to cause trouble, no one on this forum can seriously claim to know what happened.

What we do have in the music business is a long history of lawsuits when proper credit is not given: there is an established way to resolve a claim someone might have if they feel they were denied proper credit.

Chuck Berry sued John Lennon for using the line "here come old flatop" in come together and won for g*d's sake - it was a very high profile case from the same era. There was no secret about what to do if you felt someone stole your song.

Anyone who had a problem with the credits for the writing of the Stones songs could have and can come forward and challenge it in a court of law. There is so much money at stake, we have to assume they would if they could.

Anything else is just hot air as far as I'm concerned.

I certainly don't know what actually transpired..of course not. But, no, we don't have to assume someone would sue. People may not sue for a myriad of reasons irrational or otherwise.

You notice Bill Wyman and Mick Taylor have never, I don't believe, used the term "steal", or "stolen" in their respective complaints over the years against the Glimmers. They talked about receiving "credit". Same thing you might say...they're claiming someone stole their credit in other words. Yes, that is implied, but their choice of language in instructive I believe. Sure they wouldn't turn down money I don't think, were it offered, but it seems to me their slant is a bit different. Should we assume their complaints are validated because the Glimmers never sued them for Slander?

Not at all, I prefer to assume there are some things we'll never know for sure, and be OK with it. My only point is that just because someone somewhere once said to some journalist that they wrote part of a jagger/richards song does not make it so, nor does putting it into a book.

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DandelionPowderman
YOU believe Bill wrote it. Even Charlie, who Bill claimed was working it with him says Mick and Keith wrote the song.

Charlie never said Keith wrote the riff. It's not just me who says Bill wrote the riff. And you know it.

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Naturalust
Here's what Keith said about the tune: (from timeisonourside site)

Mick and I were in my house (laughs) in England in the country... and we'd been up all night and it was 6:30 in the morning, a dismal day, you know, English, grey. And we were just both crashing, Mick was on the couch and I was in an armchair with a guitar and we were, like, on the verge. And suddenly this sound of these boots (laughs) went by the window, clump clump clump - really, I mean, you had to be there to hear it - and woke Mick up, What was that? And I said - I looked out the window and I thought, Oh, that's Jack, that's jumpin' Jack. You know and then we started to play with those words. But I mean, really, it was sort of virtually woke up out of a stupor by this guy's boots, he was my gardener, he was a great guy but he's another story. And but... I just said, That's Jack. Well he's leaping about a bit. Yeah, I said, it's jumpin' Jack and then flash came and suddenly we were wide awake and we started to work, you know. You never know when they're going to come."


The key word being "work" here. Bill may have been lazily riffing on a similar line or rhythm but it's pretty clear who did the work to turn it into a song.

Yes he must have been lazily riffing but the point is he wasn't. He, Brian and Charlie were lazily riffing when hardworking Mick and Keith entered the studio. They used the riff. Bill is not making this up. None seriously thinks he's making it up either. But of course, now the riff is not important, after all it is just, as Keith pointed out, Nowhere to run backwards.

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Bill Wyman seems like a tool to me and he can't wait to tell everybody what he did with his tool.

He didn't even play bass on JJF.

As far as I know, Brian was with Stu and Mick was with Keith and they all joined up, so someone starting it is not it, it was a combining.

Brian started the band. Sorry. Bill Wyman wrote the JJF riff. Sorry.

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.
- Bill Wyman, 1982

Conclusion: Jagger and Richards wrote the song. Welcome at The Rolling Stones!

That is a contrast to Keith's story about writing the riff and music at Redlands with Mick one morning. Who knows? It just seems strange for Bill to be taking credit for that one but perhaps he did influence the riff somewhat. Clearly the finished product with the distorted guitar and lyrics and such required much more work that a simple piano riff. I doubt Bill could have developed the song like Mick and Keith did, that's the true songwriting, imo.

Well, perhaps unless its Mick Taylor developing the song...in which case, why, its just back to who provided the original riff or melody once again... The Glimmer Believers shouldn't have it both ways that the credits should always come out the same.

Well said ST, I noticed that use of double standard myself too.