Listening to Hampton 81 and realizing how important Bill actually was. More important than Mick T. Even if I like Darryl.

But..he left the band 20 years ago. He was not really in a position to think he could get 5 songs. But they should let him play on his signature songs...Miss You and - maybe a song from the beginning - It's all over Now or Paint It Black ?

HTW and IORR....not ok.

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MisterDDDD
No coincidence this is coming out ahead of his new album.

Amazing what people will say to sell books and albums.

Love Bill, but he quit the band.
You don't get to script it when they graciously invite you to join them again.

Graciously? They used him for their anniversary. Gracious would be giving him a co writing cred for the JJF riff. Not airbrush him when they sell their old material.

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More Hot Rocks
Bill crys alot. A few years ago he said he had to sell one of his homes for money. ONE of his homes.

He doesnt cry a lot. And he's not the first one to comment on how J/R runs the band.

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strat72
All this bullshit about how they would not record Bill's or Mick T's songs. I've heard Wyman's songs, and Taylor's and they are shite. That's why they weren't recorded.

You re missing the point. He talks about cowriting credits, developing songs in the studio, with a producer like Jimmy Miller etc.

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LeonidP

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strat72
All this bullshit about how they would not record Bill's or Mick T's songs. I've heard Wyman's songs, and Taylor's and they are shite. That's why they weren't recorded.

Another excellent point ... I 'like' some of Bill's stuff, but still most of it would be filler on a Stones album. Taylor's stuff is worse - yes he's a great guitar player but come on, the songs he's written are far below average.

Co writing is what he talks about. Listen to Micks and Keiths solo material and remember they had help. They had co writers like Lenny Kravitz, Waddy Wachtel etc. Bill talks about the work process in the studio. Let's be fair. They use people.

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24FPS
I think what cheeses Bill is he wasn't allowed to recreate the Stones sound that a lot of fans obviously miss. Maybe Mick J. didn't want the fans to think they were missing something. There's no reason in the world they couldn't have put together the classic lineup with Taylor and Wyman for Bitch. Then again, Mick might have felt pressure to do more with them. Not letting Bill play Miss You, maybe his finest moment, and then praising an inferior bass player in front of him, is a little low.

Exactly. And I understand Jagger. He can't have Taylor and Bill in the band, he can't let them shine or ruin the current image. And appaeratly he had to use Taylor for other reasons. Once Taylor said yes it would be weird not to have Bill "rejoin" on a couple of songs. Marketing to cover Keiths 2006 downfall.

Bill, Charlie, Brian, Ronnie and Mick T should have been given writing credits on all the songs they helped jam into existence. I think while the lyrics are mostly all by Mick, the music was not only created by Keith alone, but maybe Keith wanted an equal portion of publishing to Mick, so screw the other guys.
Which really sucks. Keith wasn't even there when some of the songs were born including IORR!
To me Darryl is just less interesting as a bass player, yes dumbed down. Bill dances like a Sufi Dervish- with his fingers... so inventive, inimitable!

The Stones went with safe, solid journeymen with Chuck and Darryl, guys who don't bring any drama, just shut up and play flawlessly, but maybe who give less dramatic performances as players. It's a trade off to stay alive, and The Stones sound great live, I am really glad they found guys and gals (Lisa!!!) to keep the steels wheels turning with!

Don't see why it was so hard to accommodate Wyman and Taylor,considering The Eagles invited Bernie Leadon back after 40 years and had him play the whole 1st set,plus encores!

A weird marketing strategy by Bill.

He does look somewhat disappointed by the fact that they chose to carry on without him, though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 10:58 by DandelionPowderman.

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bonddm
Don't see why it was so hard to accommodate Wyman and Taylor,considering The Eagles invited Bernie Leadon back after 40 years and had him play the whole 1st set,plus encores!

And The Beach Boys had the courtesy to bring back all the living original Beach Boys for a 50th Anniversary Tour, even David Marks who hadn't been in the band since the mid 60s and no one even knew who the hell he was! AND THEN Mike Love was a dick enough to take that all away from them the next year and continue touring without all but Bruce Johnston. If you want to talk about cruel, thats cruel.

So the real question becomes, especially with the Beach Boys, was it worth having that one year reunion, like the Beach Boys did, like the Eagles did, if it did only happen for money and for a year? Its tricky. You'd probably say yes, but its not that cut and dry. We can all say it wouldn't be hard to accommodate Wyman and Taylor like how the Eagles did, but its so much more complicated than you can imagine. I applaud a band like the Beach Boys that were able to pull it off, but is it worth the unbelievable hate I felt after it all fell apart? The end result was so upsetting it was almost worth not happening at all. Not that its WWIII or anything, but just saying for a fan that was hard to swallow after such a great year that it was all, essentially, for show and that people like Brian friggen Wilson didn't even know what was gonna happen next. The man responsible for you all being there didn't even know he'd be forced out, yet again, after everyone made their money.

And the Eagles aren't saints. Sure it looks like they did the anniversary right, but the bottom line is Don Felder didn't return, the Mick Taylor of that group, and that whole tour happened at the expense of learning what unbelievable pricks Glenn Frey and Don Henley are from their documentary. So they don't come out unscathed from all this. Sure they get up on stage and put on the show many never thought would happen and seems all around fair. But its 100% scripted and a gimmick for the money. So no one's doing it perfect. In all honesty, after the Stones 50 years of touring, I say Taylor's guest spot after not playing with the band for 40 years is just as rewarding as having Bernie Leadon return for a full set or having Brian Wilson and the original Beach Boys return. Its something you never thought would happen, and it did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 11:04 by RollingFreak.

I also don't buy the thing about song writing. Bill has never produced a memorable song (so far).

But Bill and Charlie together were the best rhythm section ever, and this is why Bill should be recognised.

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TeddyB1018
This was not the way I heard it at the time. I heard none of the four Stones, including Charlie, were very pleased with Bill's behavior when they got together, and I was told this happened when they convened in the States for the Brett Morgen film shoot. This was from a very strong source, though I wasn't there myself so can't vouch any further than that. Maybe they conflated things, but this was right when it was happening.

Can't really imagine how Bill could have behaved "badly" did he try to sell them metal detectors ?

He's often been described as a "mean" person (constant swearing, womanizing, etc...) and certainly his track record isn't great, like when he says in his book that Mick and Charlie pretty much came to beg him one last time to come back in early 93...having said that there's no love lost between these guys and it would have been easy enough for him to stick around and still do everything he's done since...

The good news is that his latest album is actually pretty enjoyable unlike the stuff he put out in the 70s !

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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relms
Thank you for staying Charlie Watts, you were in a similar position as Wyman and you stayed and I appreaciate you staying very much.

And Stu, and Ronnie - right?

Actually BW is indispensable for the specific Stones sound. Never I heard such a jumping swinging bass as on All Over Now for example. Deryll Jones is a great bass player, but also due to him we speak about the Vegas Stones ...

I was very close to Bill when he left the O2 stage back in 2012 and he looked filthy..

does anyone agree with me that in the 80's Bill was incredibly negative about the stones. i wonder if a lot of the bad feeling in stones camp (world war 3) got instigated by bill. having said that, i would love to see Wyman back, although the 'new man' lol is great too. truth be told Mick would never want to split the money 5 ways again would he..

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LeonidP

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TravelinMan

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LeonidP

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strat72
All this bullshit about how they would not record Bill's or Mick T's songs. I've heard Wyman's songs, and Taylor's and they are shite. That's why they weren't recorded.

Another excellent point ... I 'like' some of Bill's stuff, but still most of it would be filler on a Stones album. Taylor's stuff is worse - yes he's a great guitar player but come on, the songs he's written are far below average.

I disagree. You may not like them but in my opinion Taylor has written some better songs than the Glimmers in the last 35 years.

Obviously to each their own ... but not even close

And just to add ... if Taylor's songs were so good, why would he feel the need to fill up his live setlists w/ Stones songs?

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LeonidP

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LeonidP

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TravelinMan

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LeonidP

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strat72
All this bullshit about how they would not record Bill's or Mick T's songs. I've heard Wyman's songs, and Taylor's and they are shite. That's why they weren't recorded.

Another excellent point ... I 'like' some of Bill's stuff, but still most of it would be filler on a Stones album. Taylor's stuff is worse - yes he's a great guitar player but come on, the songs he's written are far below average.

I disagree. You may not like them but in my opinion Taylor has written some better songs than the Glimmers in the last 35 years.

Obviously to each their own ... but not even close

And just to add ... if Taylor's songs were so good, why would he feel the need to fill up his live setlists w/ Stones songs?

agreed. if Taylor was so good why did he never make a worth while record solo. also why are his solo tours a shambles. i mean he dont even employ a decent singer. by the way i do love Mick Taylor as a guitarist in the stones..

<I disagree. You may not like them but in my opinion Taylor has written some better songs than the Glimmers in the last 35 years>

Might very well be, but why didn't he release them? His only official album with major distribution came out 36 years ago.

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24FPS

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treaclefingers

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Munichhilton
Inferior is laughable

Bill is great and perfect for 60/70s Stones but if you can't tell Darryl is dumbing it down to play the part you haven't been watching...or listening

Beautiful retort

I guess I expected Mr. Jones to be better than he has been. What's kept him from playing his bass so good that he enhances these 'dumb' songs we all know and love? But he doesn't enhance, because he isn't there. I guess the Rolling Stones music is so far beneath him that he can't be bothered to display any emotion or create exquisite rhythms. Bill was washed up by the 80s? Start Me Up, Harlem Shuffle, Slipping Away? What about him effortlessly sliding into jazz mode for Terrifying?

I saw Daryl 'dumb down' Anybody Seen My Baby live in '97 to the point they practically had to stop the song because he'd screwed it up so bad. Why couldn't Daryl have been another brilliant musician passing one style to another in the Stones, but still fitting? Like going from the opposing geniuses of Nicky Hopkins and Billy Preston? I have a hard time believing that Daryl is just so scary good that we couldn't handle it if he really let loose.

Darryl is an employee not a creative consultant to Mick. He is playing exactly how they've asked him to and he's pro enough to pull it off. Plus I imagine the paycheck is not too bad! He has no more stylistic influence in this version of the Stones than I do...

If he really let loose you could handle it. You'd love it. It wouldn't fit this band but you could definitely handle it...

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LeonidP

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TravelinMan

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LeonidP

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strat72
All this bullshit about how they would not record Bill's or Mick T's songs. I've heard Wyman's songs, and Taylor's and they are shite. That's why they weren't recorded.

Another excellent point ... I 'like' some of Bill's stuff, but still most of it would be filler on a Stones album. Taylor's stuff is worse - yes he's a great guitar player but come on, the songs he's written are far below average.

I disagree. You may not like them but in my opinion Taylor has written some better songs than the Glimmers in the last 35 years.

Obviously to each their own ... but not even close

Ha! Right okay maybe just envision Jagger singing them instead. I'm sorry but much of the last 35 years hasn't been very musically interesting in regards to the Stones (studio wise anyway). Notice their shows are dominated by songs not of their modern era?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 15:49 by TravelinMan.

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Munichhilton

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24FPS

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treaclefingers

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Munichhilton
Inferior is laughable

Bill is great and perfect for 60/70s Stones but if you can't tell Darryl is dumbing it down to play the part you haven't been watching...or listening

Beautiful retort

I guess I expected Mr. Jones to be better than he has been. What's kept him from playing his bass so good that he enhances these 'dumb' songs we all know and love? But he doesn't enhance, because he isn't there. I guess the Rolling Stones music is so far beneath him that he can't be bothered to display any emotion or create exquisite rhythms. Bill was washed up by the 80s? Start Me Up, Harlem Shuffle, Slipping Away? What about him effortlessly sliding into jazz mode for Terrifying?

I saw Daryl 'dumb down' Anybody Seen My Baby live in '97 to the point they practically had to stop the song because he'd screwed it up so bad. Why couldn't Daryl have been another brilliant musician passing one style to another in the Stones, but still fitting? Like going from the opposing geniuses of Nicky Hopkins and Billy Preston? I have a hard time believing that Daryl is just so scary good that we couldn't handle it if he really let loose.

Darryl is an employee not a creative consultant to Mick. He is playing exactly how they've asked him to and he's pro enough to pull it off. Plus I imagine the paycheck is not too bad! He has no more stylistic influence in this version of the Stones than I do...

If he really let loose you could handle it. You'd love it. It wouldn't fit this band but you could definitely handle it...

The bottom line is that they have him, and have had him for over 20 years. They didn't have to, but they want to, and this was Charlie's idea.

They could have their pick of bass players, even Bill Wyman now apparently, but they want Darryl. I'm enjoying the shows so the differences that Bill may have brought aren't getting me down.

thought i was on the mick taylor thread here for a sec

i now realise saying anything negative about Jagger, Richards & Wood results in a deluge to the power of 100000 in returning blows. One good thing is to know that it's not just Taylor who gets it, it's anyone.

Great player, got shafted, jumped ship, invited back on, shafted again. add in the name Taylor or Wyman and their respective 'representitives' and 'fans'

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treaclefingers

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Munichhilton

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24FPS

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treaclefingers

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Munichhilton
Inferior is laughable

Bill is great and perfect for 60/70s Stones but if you can't tell Darryl is dumbing it down to play the part you haven't been watching...or listening

Beautiful retort

I guess I expected Mr. Jones to be better than he has been. What's kept him from playing his bass so good that he enhances these 'dumb' songs we all know and love? But he doesn't enhance, because he isn't there. I guess the Rolling Stones music is so far beneath him that he can't be bothered to display any emotion or create exquisite rhythms. Bill was washed up by the 80s? Start Me Up, Harlem Shuffle, Slipping Away? What about him effortlessly sliding into jazz mode for Terrifying?

I saw Daryl 'dumb down' Anybody Seen My Baby live in '97 to the point they practically had to stop the song because he'd screwed it up so bad. Why couldn't Daryl have been another brilliant musician passing one style to another in the Stones, but still fitting? Like going from the opposing geniuses of Nicky Hopkins and Billy Preston? I have a hard time believing that Daryl is just so scary good that we couldn't handle it if he really let loose.

Darryl is an employee not a creative consultant to Mick. He is playing exactly how they've asked him to and he's pro enough to pull it off. Plus I imagine the paycheck is not too bad! He has no more stylistic influence in this version of the Stones than I do...

If he really let loose you could handle it. You'd love it. It wouldn't fit this band but you could definitely handle it...

The bottom line is that they have him, and have had him for over 20 years. They didn't have to, but they want to, and this was Charlie's idea.

They could have their pick of bass players, even Bill Wyman now apparently, but they want Darryl. I'm enjoying the shows so the differences that Bill may have brought aren't getting me down.

Add to that,
Ronnie's worked with Darryl longer than he played with Bill...soon that will be true for the rest of the band.

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Munichhilton
Inferior is laughable

Bill is great and perfect for 60/70s Stones but if you can't tell Darryl is dumbing it down to play the part you haven't been watching...or listening

He's not dumbing down very well then is he!

^^^

The bottom line is that they have him, and have had him for over 20 years.

The Stones seem to be getting by fine without Wyman...remember, he chose to leave.

There does appear to be a fine line for Jagger (or whoever decides these things) about how many songs would be the max for Wyman's playing (like he did at the first U.S, show). But I think there's gotta be something else going on (that is being kept classified) on why he's not appearing at any of the shows since then. Too bad they cannot come to some sort of proper arrangement.

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Freejack
Bill, Charlie, Brian, Ronnie and Mick T should have been given writing credits on all the songs they helped jam into existence. I think while the lyrics are mostly all by Mick, the music was not only created by Keith alone, but maybe Keith wanted an equal portion of publishing to Mick, so screw the other guys.
Which really sucks. Keith wasn't even there when some of the songs were born including IORR!
To me Darryl is just less interesting as a bass player, yes dumbed down. Bill dances like a Sufi Dervish- with his fingers... so inventive, inimitable!

The Stones went with safe, solid journeymen with Chuck and Darryl, guys who don't bring any drama, just shut up and play flawlessly, but maybe who give less dramatic performances as players. It's a trade off to stay alive, and The Stones sound great live, I am really glad they found guys and gals (Lisa!!!) to keep the steels wheels turning with!

Keith is the main songwriter in the band. Or was, until they stopped writing songs.

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Turner68

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Freejack
Bill, Charlie, Brian, Ronnie and Mick T should have been given writing credits on all the songs they helped jam into existence. I think while the lyrics are mostly all by Mick, the music was not only created by Keith alone, but maybe Keith wanted an equal portion of publishing to Mick, so screw the other guys.
Which really sucks. Keith wasn't even there when some of the songs were born including IORR!
To me Darryl is just less interesting as a bass player, yes dumbed down. Bill dances like a Sufi Dervish- with his fingers... so inventive, inimitable!

The Stones went with safe, solid journeymen with Chuck and Darryl, guys who don't bring any drama, just shut up and play flawlessly, but maybe who give less dramatic performances as players. It's a trade off to stay alive, and The Stones sound great live, I am really glad they found guys and gals (Lisa!!!) to keep the steels wheels turning with!

Keith is the main songwriter in the band. Or was, until they stopped writing songs.

well that is certainly arguable, on both points..

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Turner68

Keith is the main songwriter in the band.

Can't believe people still think that.

It's becoming more and more obvious to me that Keith had brilliant ideas (riffs, hooks), but he needed Mick to actually make a song out of them. Which is the hardest part... I can knock out some decent riffs, but don't ask me to write a song with them.

Mick can do it on his own.

That's the way I see it anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-23 17:24 by BowieStone.