Well hopefully this will work, I ordered from Wade, the Deluxe with vinyl as well. It worked when I ordered the 75 box to the US, but other folks said it didn't work.

Quote
TeddyB1018

The new Brussels Cd's are certainly louder than the download. Maybe they sound fuller, but it's hard to tell because they are so brick walled.

Then it's a piece of junk (for me anyway). Teddy, have you calcuted the DR of the music? [en.wikipedia.org]
Below 7, it's really bad...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-12 14:22 by dcba.

Quote
dcba

Quote
TeddyB1018

The new Brussels Cd's are certainly louder than the download. Maybe they sound fuller, but it's hard to tell because they are so brick walled.

Then it's a piece of junk (for me anyway). Teddy, have you calcuted the DR of the music? [en.wikipedia.org]
Below 7, it's really bad...

Well, the praized gold CD

is not that sonic experience either

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
------------------------------------------------
DR11 -0.70 dB -14.28 dB 0:43 ?-01
DR10 -0.05 dB -11.48 dB 3:51 ?-02
DR10 -0.05 dB -11.33 dB 3:09 ?-03
DR9 -0.05 dB -10.86 dB 5:59 ?-04
DR9 -0.05 dB -10.05 dB 4:49 ?-05
DR9 -0.05 dB -10.88 dB 5:11 ?-06
DR10 -0.05 dB -12.31 dB 11:01 ?-07
DR10 -0.05 dB -12.16 dB 4:25 ?-08
DR11 -0.05 dB -13.79 dB 4:34 ?-09
DR9 -0.05 dB -11.23 dB 3:12 ?-10
DR8 -0.05 dB -10.72 dB 12:48 ?-11
DR9 -0.05 dB -9.66 dB 3:36 ?-12
DR8 -0.05 dB -9.09 dB 2:03 ?-13
DR9 -0.05 dB -9.51 dB 3:18 ?-14
DR7 -0.05 dB -8.10 dB 5:40 ?-15
-----------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 15
Official DR value: DR9

Mind - Track 1 is the radio anouncement
And it seems that the whole thing was clipped/normalized.

I do not have flac files downloaded from archieve at the moment. But I'll make DR meter for them later today, when I'll get to my external HD.

Here we go with 2 other well known editions.

Rattle Snake [RS 015/016] - Brussels Affair Definitive edition
Analyzed: Rolling Stones / Brussels Affair (Disc 1)
-----------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
-----------------------------------------------------
DR8 0.00 dB -9.28 dB 3:39 01-Track 1
DR8 0.00 dB -9.81 dB 5:38 02-Track 2
DR9 0.00 dB -9.80 dB 3:11 03-Track 3
DR8 0.00 dB -9.35 dB 5:04 04-Track 4
DR9 0.00 dB -9.91 dB 4:26 05-Track 5
DR9 0.00 dB -10.77 dB 4:27 06-Track 6
DR9 0.00 dB -10.06 dB 10:55 07-Track 7
DR7 0.00 dB -9.14 dB 12:41 08-Track 8
DR8 0.00 dB -9.15 dB 3:04 09-Track 9
DR7 0.00 dB -8.11 dB 3:34 10-Track 10
DR8 0.00 dB -8.88 dB 2:02 11-Track 11
DR8 0.00 dB -9.14 dB 3:14 12-Track 12
DR7 0.00 dB -8.43 dB 4:52 13-Track 13
DR7 0.00 dB -7.46 dB 4:29 14-Track 14
-----------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 14
Official DR value: DR8

I do not own this one, this was downloaded from torrent some time ago. I am not sure if the rip was normalized. 0.00 dB point - it was (unless, the normalization was applied during digital processing at the initial stage)

Official download from stones archive (original flac files)

----------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Rolling Stones / The Brussels Affair
----------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
----------------------------------------------------
DR10 -0.17 dB -11.70 dB 3:56 01-Brown Sugar
DR10 0.00 dB -11.76 dB 5:33 02-Gimme Shelter
DR10 0.00 dB -11.12 dB 3:14 03-Happy
DR10 0.00 dB -11.45 dB 5:04 04-Tumbling Dice
DR10 0.00 dB -10.34 dB 4:16 05-Star Star
DR10 0.00 dB -11.20 dB 4:38 06-Dancing With Mr. D
DR9 0.00 dB -10.42 dB 5:03 07-Doo Doo Doo Doo Dooo (Heartbreaker)
DR11 0.00 dB -13.17 dB 5:15 08-Angie
DR10 0.00 dB -11.19 dB 11:00 09-You Can't Always Get What You Want
DR10 0.00 dB -11.12 dB 12:53 10-Midnight Rambler
DR9 0.00 dB -10.18 dB 3:12 11-Honky Tonk Women
DR9 0.00 dB -10.22 dB 4:21 12-All Down The Line
DR9 0.00 dB -10.24 dB 2:25 13-Rip This Joint
DR9 0.00 dB -9.69 dB 3:27 14-Jumping Jack Flash
DR9 0.00 dB -9.64 dB 5:15 15-Street Fighting Man
----------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 15
Official DR value: DR10

OOOPS! The official is better in terms of DR

Although, old Brussels Affair CHAM 8812 Chameleon Records has more dynamics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Rolling Stones / Brussels Affair 1973 - Chameleon Records
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR12 0.00 dB -13.55 dB 3:17 01-Brown Sugar
DR12 0.00 dB -14.44 dB 3:10 02-Happy
DR12 0.00 dB -14.20 dB 5:22 03-Gimme Shelter
DR13 0.00 dB -14.59 dB 4:49 04-Tumbling Dice
DR11 -0.30 dB -14.09 dB 5:07 05-Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)
DR12 -0.29 dB -14.41 dB 4:26 06-Dancing With Mr. D.
DR13 0.00 dB -16.44 dB 4:36 07-Angie
DR12 0.00 dB -14.70 dB 10:53 08-You Can't Always Get What You Want
DR11 0.00 dB -13.39 dB 3:04 09-Honky Tonk Women
DR12 0.00 dB -13.54 dB 12:48 10-Midnight Rambler
DR10 0.00 dB -11.11 dB 3:42 11-All Down the Line
DR12 -0.13 dB -13.08 dB 2:05 12-Rip This Joint
DR12 0.00 dB -13.05 dB 3:13 13-Jumping Jack Flash
DR11 -0.09 dB -12.71 dB 5:22 14-Street Fighting Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 14
Official DR value: DR12

As well as old Heading for an overload [CD PRO 18] by Totonka

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Rolling Stones / Heading For An Overload - Disc 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -2.22 dB -15.71 dB 3:46 01-Brown Sugar
DR12 -1.26 dB -15.55 dB 2:59 02-Happy
DR12 -3.38 dB -16.58 dB 4:33 03-Dancing With Mr. D.
DR13 -2.14 dB -17.90 dB 4:32 04-Angie
DR12 -2.46 dB -16.56 dB 11:02 05-You Can't Always Get What You Want
DR11 -1.90 dB -15.55 dB 12:58 06-Midnight Rambler
DR11 -2.77 dB -17.39 dB 2:04 07-Rip This Joint
DR11 -3.18 dB -17.45 dB 3:16 08-Jumping Jack Flash
DR11 -3.21 dB -17.14 dB 5:23 09-Street Fighting Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 9
Official DR value: DR11



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-13 18:07 by ironbelly.

Haven't had a chance to do thorough listening comparison yet but here's the Dynamic range values for the new Brussels Affair included in the Japanese Marquee set and the official download from a couple years ago:

DR values for Brussels Affair CD's included in the Japanese Marquee set:
foobar2000 1.3.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-06-13 10:21:15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: ? / ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR7 0.00 dB -8.13 dB 3:56 ?-01 Brown Sugar
DR7 0.00 dB -8.67 dB 5:33 ?-02 Gimme Shelter
DR7 0.00 dB -7.90 dB 3:14 ?-03 Happy
DR7 0.00 dB -8.42 dB 5:04 ?-04 Tumbling Dice
DR7 -0.03 dB -7.53 dB 4:16 ?-05 Star Star
DR7 0.00 dB -8.05 dB 4:38 ?-06 Dancing With Mr. D
DR7 0.00 dB -7.98 dB 5:03 ?-07 Doo Doo Doo Doo Dooo (Heartbreaker)
DR8 0.00 dB -9.95 dB 5:00 ?-08 Angie
DR7 0.00 dB -8.24 dB 11:19 ?-09 You Can't Always Get What You Want
DR6 0.00 dB -7.72 dB 12:53 ?-10 Midnight Rambler
DR6 0.00 dB -7.19 dB 3:12 ?-11 Honky Tonk Women
DR6 0.00 dB -7.04 dB 4:21 ?-12 All Down The Line
DR6 0.00 dB -7.26 dB 2:25 ?-13 Rip This Joint
DR5 0.00 dB -6.19 dB 3:27 ?-14 Jumping Jack Flash
DR5 0.00 dB -6.05 dB 5:15 ?-15 Street Fighting Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 15
Official DR value: DR7
Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 1411 kbps
Codec: PCM
================================================================================

DR values for Brussels Affair official download from a couple years back:
foobar2000 1.3.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-06-13 10:20:09
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Rolling Stones / The Brussels Affair
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10 -0.17 dB -11.70 dB 3:56 01-Brown Sugar
DR10 0.00 dB -11.76 dB 5:33 02-Gimme Shelter
DR10 0.00 dB -11.12 dB 3:14 03-Happy
DR10 0.00 dB -11.45 dB 5:04 04-Tumbling Dice
DR10 0.00 dB -10.34 dB 4:16 05-Star Star
DR10 0.00 dB -11.20 dB 4:38 06-Dancing With Mr. D
DR9 0.00 dB -10.42 dB 5:03 07-Doo Doo Doo Doo Dooo (Heartbreaker)
DR11 0.00 dB -13.17 dB 5:15 08-Angie
DR10 0.00 dB -11.19 dB 11:00 09-You Can't Always Get What You Want
DR10 0.00 dB -11.12 dB 12:53 10-Midnight Rambler
DR9 0.00 dB -10.18 dB 3:12 11-Honky Tonk Women
DR9 0.00 dB -10.22 dB 4:21 12-All Down The Line
DR9 0.00 dB -10.24 dB 2:25 13-Rip This Joint
DR9 0.00 dB -9.69 dB 3:27 14-Jumping Jack Flash
DR9 0.00 dB -9.64 dB 5:15 15-Street Fighting Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 15
Official DR value: DR10
Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 965 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

slowhand
Brickwalled to death

I Got The Blues - alternate take 2 (step 10) is NEW

Bitch - alternate take 1 (step 11) is the SAME as the TV show version (step 7)

A noob question - how can I calculate DR and what does it mean? I am only familliar with the spectral analysis to decide whether a file is lossless.

For the Brussels part:
1st or 2nd show?
Complete or not?
Thanks

Same as "The Brussels Affair" Bravadosa deluxe box.

According to tkl7 at SHoffmann forum the Marquee CD seems to quite smashed too...
Hopefully the Blueay will sound better?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-14 13:28 by dcba.

To my ears the Marquee-CD sounds better than the dvd ... Perhaps I will belong to a minority, because I like these so called brickwalled mixes, they sound fresh and "modern", in German: "knackig"!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-14 21:24 by muenke.

Quote
muenke
To my ears the Marquee-CD sounds better than the dvd ... Perhaps I will belong to a minority, because I eben like these so called brickwalled mixes, they sound fresh and "modern", in German: "knackig"!

Knackig I like that word, it sounds like what it means. Use more German through your English please, or other languages when your native tongue isn't English. It's fun. Thanks muenke for setting a trend!

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
muenke
To my ears the Marquee-CD sounds better than the dvd ... Perhaps I will belong to a minority, because I eben like these so called brickwalled mixes, they sound fresh and "modern", in German: "knackig"!

Knackig I like that word, it sounds like what it means. Use more German through your English please, or other languages when your native tongue isn't English. It's fun. Thanks muenke for setting a trend!

Ha! You are welcome, Kleermarker!

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
muenke
Just recieved my copy from Japan (Marquee: DVD und CD, Brussels: 2 CD), very fast shipping (3 days - OK, I paid for that) to Germany by cdjapan! Great stuff, the Brussels CDs are indeed in a spererate jewel-case!

Congratulations. Just a stupid question - how much did you pay for extra EU tax?

Got mine from amazon.co.jp 2 days ago, paid 99.95 euros in all, lucky because with 5 cents more, it should cost 100 euros!

foobar2000 1.3.3 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-06-13 23:41:08

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Rolling Stones / From The Vault: Marquee '71
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR8 -0.46 dB -9.69 dB 4:17 01-Live With Me
DR8 -0.49 dB -9.40 dB 4:15 02-Dead Flowers
DR8 -0.51 dB -10.54 dB 3:35 03-I Got The Blues
DR7 -0.53 dB -9.03 dB 2:32 04-Let It Rock
DR6 -0.50 dB -7.99 dB 9:51 05-Midnight Rambler
DR6 -0.48 dB -7.30 dB 4:58 06-Satisfaction
DR6 -0.45 dB -7.57 dB 4:11 07-Bitch
DR6 -0.52 dB -7.48 dB 4:15 08-Brown Sugar
DR8 -0.51 dB -10.63 dB 4:12 09-I Got The Blues (Alternate Take 1)
DR7 -0.47 dB -10.02 dB 3:52 10-I Got The Blues (Alternate Take 2)
DR6 -0.50 dB -7.59 dB 4:24 11-Bitch (Alternate Take 1)
DR6 -0.48 dB -7.83 dB 4:18 12-Bitch (Alternate Take 2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 12
Official DR value: DR7

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 1412 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

gutted got to wait just over a week to listen to this

Quote
kevinkamphuis
foobar2000 1.3.3 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-06-13 23:41:08

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Rolling Stones / From The Vault: Marquee '71
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official DR value: DR7

That's not very much...

Not sure if it's been mentioned but stereo channels are reversed on "Bitch" (Alternate Take 2) on the Japanese Blu-ray and CD.

Quote
jiggysawdust
Not sure if it's been mentioned but stereo channels are reversed on "Bitch" (Alternate Take 2) on the Japanese Blu-ray and CD.

Collector's item!

In fact, according to the database, the new Sticky Fingers Deluxe is brickwalled too.

Quote
Poetry
In fact, according to the database, the new Sticky Fingers Deluxe is brickwalled too.

Sure it is. The original album is that infamous 2009 remaster.

In fact it seems that the original cds from mid/late 80s are generally the best for Stones. Anyway, which version of Exile would you recommend? Most of those are not that easily available, though.

The live gigs on Sticky Fingers are brickwalled too. Now the question is whether they put the range for pop/rock in the database or it is the same regardless of genre. I would say classical and jazz have generally more dynamic range in general. Or am I mistaken?

Here's a foretaste:






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-16 02:46 by kleermaker.

Quote
Poetry
In fact it seems that the original cds from mid/late 80s are generally the best for Stones. Anyway, which version of Exile would you recommend? Most of those are not that easily available, though.

Exile is an easy case.
1. Virgin remaster from 1994. This is the best value. Easy to find and generally cheap.
2. The best sound is on 2013 Japanese remaster (Promotone UICY-40001). But this one is expensive.
3. Mid 80s CBS version has a kind of mixed reputation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-06-15 23:17 by ironbelly.

Quote
ouroux58

Got mine from amazon.co.jp 2 days ago, paid 99.95 euros in all, lucky because with 5 cents more, it should cost 100 euros!

Tell you what: 10 cents more and it would've been 100,05 euros!

Absolutely love this video and show. Nothing can top the Stones in all their decadent glory!

Quote
DrPete
Absolutely love this video and show. Nothing can top the Stones in all their decadent glory!

I love it too. Mick being a bit hoarse, Keith acting a bit foolish, Charlie & Bill just being themselves and then there's Mick Taylor ... being cool.

Quote
Poetry
A noob question - how can I calculate DR and what does it mean? I am only familliar with the spectral analysis to decide whether a file is lossless.

The DR is the dynamic range of the recording. The difference in volume between the quietest sounds and the loudest sounds on the record. It is different for each track and the overall DR rating for an album is an average of the DR values for each track.

When the DR is low, the overall volume of the entire record can be increased without clipping (too high a level causing distortion) to make it sound louder...ie) the loudness wars. When the dynamic range is high, for instance loud drum hits and quiet guitar parts, you can't really turn the whole thing up without the drums distorting.

Our ears appreciate recordings with higher dynamic range, they sound more natural and cause less fatigue because of the quieter sections. Of course the amount of natural DR created in making the music varies greatly with symphonic music generally having twice as much as rock and roll to start with.

It's really a relative concept and louder is only perceived when compared to other music at the same volume setting on your playback system. We can of course turn the music up ourselves if we want it louder but marketers of music decided they wanted their tracks to stand out in the crowd and the results have been lower DR and records that are unnaturally loud to start with.

To measure DR accurately you need some computer tools to analyze the waveforms and determine the loudest and quietest signals present in the audio. They are pretty common these days in audio editing software like Pro Tools, and even cheaper and free ones available on the internet.

I could go deep on the subject but I hope that answers your question. I prefer music with a higher dynamic range. If I want to hear it louder I can always turn it up myself.

If you want to know how your music rates on the DR scale this is the best database I have found.

[dr.loudness-war.info]

peace

Since all the videos have gone: here the one I called "A foretaste of The Marquee":
[www.youtube.com]