Sorry, if I missed an earlier discussion here, but I'm somewhat confused: Is the album "Wild Ride", released on May 16, 2024, from "our" Mick Taylor? The music style differs from all his releases so far.

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Taylor1

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TheflyingDutchman

Separately should have replaced Ain’t Too Proud to Beg on IORR

Main issue is that it steals the intro and returning theme from Fire and Rain by James Taylor.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

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TheflyingDutchman

Separately should have replaced Ain’t Too Proud to Beg on IORR

Main issue is that it steals the intro and returning theme from Fire and Rain by James Taylor.

Mathijs

Actually Sweet Baby stole that from Taylor and didn’t give him credit

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

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TheflyingDutchman

Separately should have replaced Ain’t Too Proud to Beg on IORR

Main issue is that it steals the intro and returning theme from Fire and Rain by James Taylor.

Mathijs

Actually Sweet Baby stole that from Taylor and didn’t give him credit

Only issue is that Fire and Rain came two years earlier....

Mathijs

I don’t hear the resemblance.



And if you are going to say Separately would not have been on IORR album because it sounds like Fire and Rain, how did the album get the song IORR , which sounds much more like Bang the Gong than Separately sounds like Fire and Rain.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-05-30 23:15 by Taylor1.

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Taylor1
I don’t hear the resemblance.

The strummed intro chord on Separately is the only resemblance that I can hear. And maybe the overall vibe of both songs. I don't know what a judge would say if the case came in court. No problem to my taste.

To put things in the right perspective: Schocking Blue's "Venus" was quite obvious plagiarism. Strange that it never led to a lawsuit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-05-30 23:15 by TheflyingDutchman.

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

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TheflyingDutchman

Separately should have replaced Ain’t Too Proud to Beg on IORR

Main issue is that it steals the intro and returning theme from Fire and Rain by James Taylor.

Mathijs

Actually Sweet Baby stole that from Taylor and didn’t give him credit

Only issue is that Fire and Rain came two years earlier....

Mathijs

Not one for sarcasm, eh?



Anyway, I can hear similarities but def not enough to warrant a lawsuit. I mean if “Bitch” didn’t…

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Anyway, I can hear similarities but def not enough to warrant a lawsuit. I mean if “Bitch” didn’t…[/quote]

What tune is Bitch "inspired" by?

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TheflyingDutchman
A few days ago in Holland.

Hopefully Walter has invited Mick to guest on his next album!

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TheflyingDutchman
To put things in the right perspective: Schocking Blue's "Venus" was quite obvious plagiarism. Strange that it never led to a lawsuit.

Thanks for bringing this up. I did a little searching and found "The Banjo Song", which I had never heard before. It really is surprising that no one ever brought suit. The melodic lines are identical, and the performance is so similar that it's obvious that one copied the other.

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blivet

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TheflyingDutchman
To put things in the right perspective: Schocking Blue's "Venus" was quite obvious plagiarism. Strange that it never led to a lawsuit.

Thanks for bringing this up. I did a little searching and found "The Banjo Song", which I had never heard before. It really is surprising that no one ever brought suit. The melodic lines are identical, and the performance is so similar that it's obvious that one copied the other.

Mamma forgot how to cash. The most sad side of the story is that the "composer" of Venus let Mariska Veres -the singer of the song- pay for every performance she did to pay her bills. Due to songwriting credits.

[www.youtube.com]

An endearing and lovingly played version of a later day great stones song but, I can't help myself and lament a fittingly emotive Mick Taylor solo gently nestling on top. One can dream..

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Captainchaos
[www.youtube.com]

An endearing and lovingly played version of a later day great stones song but, I can't help myself and lament a fittingly emotive Mick Taylor solo gently nestling on top. One can dream..

That's a case for Derrick:

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blivet

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TheflyingDutchman
To put things in the right perspective: Schocking Blue's "Venus" was quite obvious plagiarism. Strange that it never led to a lawsuit.

Thanks for bringing this up. I did a little searching and found "The Banjo Song", which I had never heard before. It really is surprising that no one ever brought suit. The melodic lines are identical, and the performance is so similar that it's obvious that one copied the other.

oh wow you ain't jokin'









something tells me there has to be more to this story it's just way to obvious

Well, it is a part of (a certain) folk tradition and its ideology that no one 'owns' melodies - they are free to use for anyone. Dylan might tell us more about this... It would have been uncool and hypocratic for these folks to sue anyone for it...

But what makes this case funny is that "The Banjo Song' uses the old "Oh! Susanna" lyrics - a classic minstrel song by Stephen Forster from 1848 - with a new melody. A melody that was then used with new lyrics on "Venus".

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-02 13:14 by Doxa.

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Doxa
Well, it is a part of (a certain) folk tradition and its ideology that no one 'owns' melodies - they are free to use for anyone. Dylan might tell us more about this... It would have been uncool and hypocratic for these folks to sue anyone for it...

But what makes this case funny is that "The Banjo Song' uses the old "Oh! Susanna" lyrics - a classic minstrel song by Stephen Forster from 1848 - with a new melody. A melody that was then used with new lyrics on "Venus".

- Doxa

I also don't think that copying the lyrics of the trad "Oh Susanna" detracts anything from the fact that "Venus" was plagiarism.These are two different issues. At least it would be an admission of weakness on behalf of the big 3, had the case been taken to court back in the days.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-02 13:49 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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Doxa
Well, it is a part of (a certain) folk tradition and its ideology that no one 'owns' melodies - they are free to use for anyone. Dylan might tell us more about this... It would have been uncool and hypocratic for these folks to sue anyone for it...

But what makes this case funny is that "The Banjo Song' uses the old "Oh! Susanna" lyrics - a classic minstrel song by Stephen Forster from 1848 - with a new melody. A melody that was then used with new lyrics on "Venus".

- Doxa

I don't think that copying the lyrics of the trad "Oh Susanna" detracts anything from the fact that "Venus" was plagiarism.These are two different issues. At least it would be an admission of weakness on behalf of the big 3, had the case come in court back in the days.

No, it does not and yeah, those are two different issues or cases altogether. But my point was try to explain why the writer of "Venus" was never sued as this has been wondered here. Since, as one's ears easily can tell, there is a justified case there.

But the American folk music scene of late 50's and early 60's had their own ideas and even political ideals of song-writing credition. I think it is based on suggestion that all music is 'universal' and 'traditional', as is many times with 'folk music', even though that technically is not always the case (so one way to see it they interpreted the 'trad.' pretty loosely and generally). It is this very scene, especially fruitful in Greenwich Village, that people like The Big 3, and especially Dylan stem from. Even today it is sometimes discussed how on earth Dylan is allowed to 'borrow' (not just musically, but also lyrically) so much, and the Dylan apologistists come to tell the similar story I told above. But if it would not have been Dylan, but some lesser song-writer, and not all that history to back up one's doings, the dude's been in trouble... I mean, not many has balls enough to write such an 'original' like "Early Roman Kings"...

So my guess is that the writer of "The Banjo Song" has had that much folkie spirit and probably not that much need for extra cash, so 'let it be'. Peace.

- Doxa



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-02 14:44 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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TheflyingDutchman

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Doxa
Well, it is a part of (a certain) folk tradition and its ideology that no one 'owns' melodies - they are free to use for anyone. Dylan might tell us more about this... It would have been uncool and hypocratic for these folks to sue anyone for it...

But what makes this case funny is that "The Banjo Song' uses the old "Oh! Susanna" lyrics - a classic minstrel song by Stephen Forster from 1848 - with a new melody. A melody that was then used with new lyrics on "Venus".

- Doxa

I don't think that copying the lyrics of the trad "Oh Susanna" detracts anything from the fact that "Venus" was plagiarism.These are two different issues. At least it would be an admission of weakness on behalf of the big 3, had the case come in court back in the days.

No, it does not and yeah, those are two different issues or cases altogether. But my point was try to explain why the writer of "Venus" was never sued as this has been wondered here. Since, as one's ears easily can tell, there is a justified case there.

But the American folk music scene of late 50's and early 60's had their own ideas and even political ideals of song-writing credition. I think it is based on suggestion that all music is 'universal' and 'traditional', as is many times with 'folk music', even though that technically is not always the case (so one way to see it they interpreted the 'trad.' pretty loisely and generally). It is this very scene, especially fruitful in Greenwich Village, that people like The Big 3, and especially Dylan stem from. Even today it is sometimes discussed how on earth Dylan is allowed to 'borrow' (not just musically, but also lyrically) so much, and the Dylan apologistists come to
tell the similar story I told above. But if it would not have been Dylan, but some lesser song-writer, and not all that history to back up one's doings, the dude's been in
trouble... I mean, not many has balls enough to write such an 'original' like "Early Roman Kings"...

So my guess is that the writer of "The Banjo Song" has had that much folkie spirit and probably not that much need for extra cash, so 'let it be'.

- Doxa

Yes, I got your point- I edited my post before your reply.

Those were different times indeed. These days the guitarist of Schocking Blue, who claimed songwriting would have to pay likely. He also felt quite embarrassed when he was confronted with the case, and as he story goes, asked his fellow Schocking Blue members to avoid the subject in case of interviews etc. He must have felt morally "guilty" in a way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-02 14:55 by TheflyingDutchman.

Yeah, all those things - conducts, practises, credition policy, ownership, the scope and idea of plagiarism, etc. - has changed a lot along the years, and most likely they will in future as well. What I have learned is that there is no black and white, but just a huge grey area that is tested and to an extent defined in courts from time to time. It is the latter that only matters, but the outcome of those courts depends on so many variables. We easily think - romantically - what 'originality' or 'creativity' is, and like there is some sort of objective criterion out there easily to applied, but I think those accounts seem to rely on pretty naive foundations (and one is just fooling oneself). There is so much arbitrariness.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-02 15:13 by Doxa.

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Doxa
Yeah, all those things - conducts, practises, credition policy, ownership, the scope and idea of plagiarism, etc. - has changed a lot along the years, and most likely they will in future as well. What I have learned is that there is no black and white, but just a huge grey area that is tested and to an extent defined in courts from time to time. It is the latter that only matters, but the outcome of those courts depends on so many variables. We easily think - romantically - what 'originality' or 'creativity' is, and like there is some sort of objective criterion out there easily to applied, but I think those accounts seem to rely on pretty naive foundations (and one is just fooling oneself). There is so much arbitrariness.

- Doxa

Yes, many angles. But still there is something like a musician's moral compass.

If I were a lawyer on behalf of the Big three, I would have slaughtered the other party morally, musically and financially, if there was no agreement on a friendly basis. .

Surely! A moral compass should be the guide here, but if it fails - like it so many times does - we need good lawyers!

- Doxa

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ProfessorWolf

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blivet

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TheflyingDutchman
To put things in the right perspective: Schocking Blue's "Venus" was quite obvious plagiarism. Strange that it never led to a lawsuit.

Thanks for bringing this up. I did a little searching and found "The Banjo Song", which I had never heard before. It really is surprising that no one ever brought suit. The melodic lines are identical, and the performance is so similar that it's obvious that one copied the other.

oh wow you ain't jokin'









something tells me there has to be more to this story it's just way to obvious

As far as I understand it, the Schocking Blue's lead singer Mariska Veres had to pay a substantial amount of money for every performance she did when singing "Venus" with a backing track. Due to songwriting credits.

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TheflyingDutchman

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ProfessorWolf

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blivet

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TheflyingDutchman
To put things in the right perspective: Schocking Blue's "Venus" was quite obvious plagiarism. Strange that it never led to a lawsuit.

Thanks for bringing this up. I did a little searching and found "The Banjo Song", which I had never heard before. It really is surprising that no one ever brought suit. The melodic lines are identical, and the performance is so similar that it's obvious that one copied the other.

oh wow you ain't jokin'









something tells me there has to be more to this story it's just way to obvious

As far as I understand it, the Schocking Blue's lead singer Mariska Veres had to pay a substantial amount of money for every performance she did when singing "Venus" with a backing track. Due to songwriting credits.

Very identical indeed.......to whom had Mariska Veres pay writing credits while she played the song live, to the original writers or Robbie van Leeuwen?

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NICOS

Very identical indeed.......to whom had Mariska Veres pay writing credits while she played the song live, to the original writers or Robbie van Leeuwen?

Robbie van Leeuwen only. The rest of the band members nothing. You can trace the info on the internet. Mariska Veres was a great singer. I think she deserved better in this case.

If you are interested, the links below are an interesting read, in Dutch:

[www.dejongenskamer.nl]

[www.harryknipschild.nl]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-03 15:38 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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NICOS

Very identical indeed.......to whom had Mariska Veres pay writing credits while she played the song live, to the original writers or Robbie van Leeuwen?

Robbie van Leeuwen only. The rest of the band members nothing. You can trace the info on the internet. Mariska Veres was a great singer. I think she deserved better in this case.

If you are interested, the links below are an interesting read, in Dutch:

[www.dejongenskamer.nl]

[www.harryknipschild.nl]

Bedankt Dutchman

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RobertJohnson

Sorry, if I missed an earlier discussion here, but I'm somewhat confused: Is the album "Wild Ride", released on May 16, 2024, from "our" Mick Taylor? The music style differs from all his releases so far.

No one?

I'm rather sure that "our" Mick Taylor didn't release this album. But who is behind this release and wants to make a career under an already well-known name?

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RobertJohnson

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RobertJohnson

Sorry, if I missed an earlier discussion here, but I'm somewhat confused: Is the album "Wild Ride", released on May 16, 2024, from "our" Mick Taylor? The music style differs from all his releases so far.

No one?

I'm rather sure that "our" Mick Taylor didn't release this album. But who is behind this release and wants to make a career under an already well-known name?

Nope, not our Mick. Besides, Mick and Taylor are common names in this world.

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shawnriffhard1
What tune is Bitch "inspired" by?

Can't recall the title off the top of my head, but it's an old soul song.

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TravelinMan

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shawnriffhard1
What tune is Bitch "inspired" by?

Can't recall the title off the top of my head, but it's an old soul song.

Get Ready?