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RomanCandle

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stanlove

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RomanCandle
You're such a bad troll, it's embarrassing. I mean, the comparison with Culture Club was ridiculous.

If you don't think the Smith's music ( not lurics ) is not at the level of CC then I don't know what to tell you...Like I said a lot of Brits were sucked in by the Smiths, others not so much..It much be a culture thing..

I have my theory on why that is but won't get into it..

People who are into The Smiths are not necessarily British, but they got the point of what pop music was all about.

"If you don't think the Smith's music ( not lurics ) is not at the level of CC"

The Smiths are my favourite band because they were not about guitar masturbation. Marr's arpeggios were perfect. You remind me of the French rock critic "PhilMan" who doesn't like the Smiths because their music is not about loud guitars.

I like a lot of music that does not have loud quitars...I like plenty of pop Music. The Smiths have a sound that I like many of others hate..

First of all if you want to be taken seriously as a lyricist don't bundle it with goofy silly pop music..It doesn't fit..Like Lennon said about Bob Dylan, it didn't even matter so much what he said because his music sounded important no matter what the lyrics were and Lennon was spot on..With the Smiths no matter what the lyrics were the song was going to sound lightweight which is what it did, and lightweight song with a guy with an annoying voice trying to sound important is awful and the Smith were that.


And as for my culture thing here is my opinion..English as a rule are feminine people. Many people I know think that basically every Brit man appears feminine, its a much more feminine culture that America good or bad. The Smiths sound like a group trying to reach gay kids to me..So its goody silly tunes that to me are unlistenable and it always sounds designed for gay kids..I am not gay and have nothing against them but I live in a different world..I am not surprised that Brits who I consider to be feminine to begin with would be into the Smiths..American and the rest of the world not so much..

They are the worst sonnding thing I have ever heard. Now if he does indeed have great lyrics then bundle them with a harmonica and a guitar,,,

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stanlove

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RomanCandle

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stanlove

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RomanCandle
You're such a bad troll, it's embarrassing. I mean, the comparison with Culture Club was ridiculous.

If you don't think the Smith's music ( not lurics ) is not at the level of CC then I don't know what to tell you...Like I said a lot of Brits were sucked in by the Smiths, others not so much..It much be a culture thing..

I have my theory on why that is but won't get into it..

People who are into The Smiths are not necessarily British, but they got the point of what pop music was all about.

"If you don't think the Smith's music ( not lurics ) is not at the level of CC"

The Smiths are my favourite band because they were not about guitar masturbation. Marr's arpeggios were perfect. You remind me of the French rock critic "PhilMan" who doesn't like the Smiths because their music is not about loud guitars.

I like a lot of music that does not have loud quitars...I like plenty of pop Music. The Smiths have a sound that I like many of others hate..

First of all if you want to be taken seriously as a lyricist don't bundle it with goofy silly pop music..It doesn't fit..Like Lennon said about Bob Dylan, it didn't even matter so much what he said because his music sounded important no matter what the lyrics were and Lennon was spot on..With the Smiths no matter what the lyrics were the song was going to sound lightweight which is what it did, and lightweight song with a guy with an annoying voice trying to sound important is awful and the Smith were that.


And as for my culture thing here is my opinion..English as a rule are feminine people. Many people I know think that basically every Brit man appears feminine, its a much more feminine culture that America good or bad. The Smiths sound like a group trying to reach gay kids to me..So its goody silly tunes that to me are unlistenable and it always sounds designed for gay kids..I am not gay and have nothing against them but I live in a different world..I am not surprised that Brits who I consider to be feminine to begin with would be into the Smiths..American and the rest of the world not so much..

They are the worst sonnding thing I have ever heard. Now if he does indeed have great lyrics then bundle them with a harmonica and a guitar,,,

It does fit well with Morrissey's tongue-in-cheek lyrics.

"with an annoying voice trying to sound important is awful and the Smith were that."


“This is real music played by real people. The Smiths are absolutely real faces instead of the frills and the gloss and the pantomime that popular music had become immersed in.”
About the band's name: “It was the most ordinary name and I think it’s time that the ordinary folk of the world showed their faces.”

"I'm not surprised that Brits who I consider to be feminine to begin with would be into the Smiths."

Your penultimate paragraph is armchair sociology bullshit.

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RomanCandle

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stanlove

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RomanCandle

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stanlove

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RomanCandle
You're such a bad troll, it's embarrassing. I mean, the comparison with Culture Club was ridiculous.

If you don't think the Smith's music ( not lurics ) is not at the level of CC then I don't know what to tell you...Like I said a lot of Brits were sucked in by the Smiths, others not so much..It much be a culture thing..

I have my theory on why that is but won't get into it..

People who are into The Smiths are not necessarily British, but they got the point of what pop music was all about.

"If you don't think the Smith's music ( not lurics ) is not at the level of CC"

The Smiths are my favourite band because they were not about guitar masturbation. Marr's arpeggios were perfect. You remind me of the French rock critic "PhilMan" who doesn't like the Smiths because their music is not about loud guitars.

I like a lot of music that does not have loud quitars...I like plenty of pop Music. The Smiths have a sound that I like many of others hate..

First of all if you want to be taken seriously as a lyricist don't bundle it with goofy silly pop music..It doesn't fit..Like Lennon said about Bob Dylan, it didn't even matter so much what he said because his music sounded important no matter what the lyrics were and Lennon was spot on..With the Smiths no matter what the lyrics were the song was going to sound lightweight which is what it did, and lightweight song with a guy with an annoying voice trying to sound important is awful and the Smith were that.


And as for my culture thing here is my opinion..English as a rule are feminine people. Many people I know think that basically every Brit man appears feminine, its a much more feminine culture that America good or bad. The Smiths sound like a group trying to reach gay kids to me..So its goody silly tunes that to me are unlistenable and it always sounds designed for gay kids..I am not gay and have nothing against them but I live in a different world..I am not surprised that Brits who I consider to be feminine to begin with would be into the Smiths..American and the rest of the world not so much..

They are the worst sonnding thing I have ever heard. Now if he does indeed have great lyrics then bundle them with a harmonica and a guitar,,,

It does fit well with Morrissey's tongue-in-cheek lyrics.

"with an annoying voice trying to sound important is awful and the Smith were that."


“This is real music played by real people. The Smiths are absolutely real faces instead of the frills and the gloss and the pantomime that popular music had become immersed in.”
About the band's name: “It was the most ordinary name and I think it’s time that the ordinary folk of the world showed their faces.”

"I'm not surprised that Brits who I consider to be feminine to begin with would be into the Smiths."

Your penultimate paragraph is armchair sociology bullshit.

But I would say the same about your statement..See how that works..Everyone has an opinion even those who don't like the Smiths for reasons I listed..Plus the people who I know who think Brits have a much more feminine culture then Amwerica also have an opinion and one that I share..Its not good or bad maybe Americans are more like cavemen, buts it the truth as far as I see.

Brits also rank Queen as the second best rock band ever. A band who was lead by a guy whos goal it was to bring opra to Rock fans..Different cultures..

Why do you judge The Smiths' music through the prism of sexual identity?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-08 22:11 by RomanCandle.

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RomanCandle
Why do you judge The Smiths' music through the prism of sexual identity?

Often insecurity with one's own sexuality.

It's very difficult to compare The Smiths and The Rolling Stones to begin with. The Smiths are indiepop while The Stones are mainstream rock and roll.
If you're not into indie you probably don't like The Smiths either. We are talking about different forms of expression.

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Bastion

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RomanCandle
Why do you judge The Smiths' music through the prism of sexual identity?

Often insecurity with one's own sexuality.

OK then you tell me why the Smiths who are so loved in England are nothing at all, and I mean at all in America. I have never met an America that likes them..


Lets hear this explanation..

<<the Smiths who are so loved in England are nothing at all, and I mean at all in America.>>

Except to those who sought out "alternative" music at the time....

WFNX Top 101 of the Decade (1989)

1. The Smiths - How Soon is Now?

2. The Cure - Just Like Heaven

3. Modern English - I Melt With You

4. The Cult - She Sells Sanctuary

5. U2 - Sunday Bloody Sunday

6. The B-52's - Love Shack

7. R.E.M. - It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)

8. The Cure - In Between Days

9. Talking Heads - Once in a Lifetime

10. New Order - Blue Monday

[en.wikipedia.org]

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stonehearted
<<the Smiths who are so loved in England are nothing at all, and I mean at all in America.>>

Except to those who sought out "alternative" music at the time....

WFNX Top 101 of the Decade (1989)

1. The Smiths - How Soon is Now?

2. The Cure - Just Like Heaven

3. Modern English - I Melt With You

4. The Cult - She Sells Sanctuary

5. U2 - Sunday Bloody Sunday

6. The B-52's - Love Shack

7. R.E.M. - It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)

8. The Cure - In Between Days

9. Talking Heads - Once in a Lifetime

10. New Order - Blue Monday

[en.wikipedia.org]

All of those bands made it bigger in the US then the Smiths..I knew people who liked everyone of those bands and I like many on that list also, didn't get the same feeling at all about those bands as the Smiths..When I listen to the B-52s or REM or U2 of anyone else on the list I don't think I am listening to someone trying to reach out to a 10-15 year old gay crows using lightweight music..


So ok why did other groups even playing the same kind of music make it much bigger then the Amiths in the US? I already told you why but lets hear it..

And check out the charts on all of those bands if you don't believe me.

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stanlove
So ok why did other groups even playing the same kind of music make it much bigger then the Amiths in the US? I already told you why but lets hear it..

And check out the charts on all of those bands if you don't believe me.

Listen to the audience going wild for Morrissey when he appeared on The Tonight Show in 1991, it almost sounds like Beatlemania out there....

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stanlove

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Bastion

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RomanCandle
Why do you judge The Smiths' music through the prism of sexual identity?

Often insecurity with one's own sexuality.

OK then you tell me why the Smiths who are so loved in England are nothing at all, and I mean at all in America. I have never met an America that likes them..


Lets hear this explanation..

Anyone with a basic knowledge of The Smiths knows that Geoff Travis, manager of their record company Rough Trade essentially sabotaged the contract to the point where their US counterpart Sire only had access to the marketing rights.

I would explain more, but like I've already said, your opinion holds no validity.

[www.theguardian.com]

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stonehearted
<<the Smiths who are so loved in England are nothing at all, and I mean at all in America.>>

Except to those who sought out "alternative" music at the time....

WFNX Top 101 of the Decade (1989)

1. The Smiths - How Soon is Now?

2. The Cure - Just Like Heaven

3. Modern English - I Melt With You

4. The Cult - She Sells Sanctuary

5. U2 - Sunday Bloody Sunday

6. The B-52's - Love Shack

7. R.E.M. - It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)

8. The Cure - In Between Days

9. Talking Heads - Once in a Lifetime

10. New Order - Blue Monday

[en.wikipedia.org]

I don't want to throw fuel on the fire or anything, but I can't help commenting that to me that list looks like the Ultimate Songlist From Hell.

^ If it makes you feel any better, here's the same radio station's top 10 of their top 500 songs of all time from 1999. Mind you, both the 80s list and this one were listener surveys based on votes.

WFNX Top 500 of All-Time (1999)

1. Violent Femmes - Blister in the Sun

2. Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit

3. U2 - Sunday Bloody Sunday

4. Nine Inch Nails - Closer

5. The Smiths - How Soon is Now?

6. Jane's Addiction - Been Caught Stealing

7. Beastie Boys - Intergalactic

8. Pearl Jam - Black

9. Pixies - Here Comes Your Man

10. Beck - Loser

And where did the Smiths and Morrissey come in throughout the top 500?

92. The Smiths - Bigmouth Strikes Again

131. The Smiths - Panic

188. Morissey - Every Day is Like Sunday

223. Morissey - Suedehead

268. Morrissey - Last of the Famous International Playboys

344. The Smiths - This Charming Man

Allright Allright we're waiting for the blue corner now...

2 1 2 0

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stonehearted

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stanlove
So ok why did other groups even playing the same kind of music make it much bigger then the Amiths in the US? I already told you why but lets hear it..

And check out the charts on all of those bands if you don't believe me.

Listen to the audience going wild for Morrissey when he appeared on The Tonight Show in 1991, it almost sounds like Beatlemania out there....

Again check out the charts..Smiths did nothing in the US..Yours is a desperate attempt.I was in my 20s in the 1980s. I don't even remember the Smiths, I remember every other band on the list.The only time I ever hear anyone talk about them is when I am on British webpages and I keep hearing things like they are the greatest band ever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-09 17:04 by stanlove.

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RomanCandle
Why do you judge The Smiths' music through the prism of sexual identity?

It works like this..Grown men are not going to listen to music geared towards 15 year old girls..Justin Beiber is not going to be a hit with grown men. he is popular because there are a ton of young girls who buy music and go to concerts...I like most grown men sure as heck are not going to listen to music for 15 years old girls, I live in a different worls.


IN the US the Smiths are not going to be popular with grown men. They are a gay act and their music sounds like it. There are not a ton of gay men that would make them popular...See how that works? I like most men are not going to listen to music that sounds like it is geared towards 15 year old gay kids, I live in a different world..

The Smiths did get big with the Brits because the culture is more feminine then American culture..For some reason you guys don't even see that the Smiths sound like fluff music geared towards a young gay audience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-09 17:12 by stanlove.

So, The Smiths failed to crack the U.S. mainstream. This means what exactly? They're beloved by millions across the U.K. And Europe and their influence is far greater than many of the so-called 'big' U.S. acts. Having an impact in the United States should never be a yardstick for ones' greatness or general achievement.

I attended one of Morrissey's concert in Amsterdam and The Smiths made some great vinyls.

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stanlove

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RomanCandle
Why do you judge The Smiths' music through the prism of sexual identity?

It works like this..Grown men are not going to listen to music geared towards 15 year old girls..Justin Beiber is not going to be a hit with grown men. he is popular because there are a ton of young girls who buy music and go to concerts...I like most grown men sure as heck are not going to listen to music for 15 years old girls, I live in a different worls.


IN the US the Smiths are not going to be popular with grown men. They are a gay act and their music sounds like it. There are not a ton of gay men that would make them popular...See how that works? I like most men are not going to listen to music that sounds like it is geared towards 15 year old gay kids, I live in a different world..

The Smiths did get big with the Brits because the culture is more feminine then American culture..For some reason you guys don't even see that the Smiths sound like fluff music geared towards a young gay audience.

Seriously mate, I know this is not an argument but go listen to some stoner rock/garage punk/Southern rock while f-ucking your girlfriend or wife, and let us enjoy our faggot music.

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stanlove

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RomanCandle
Why do you judge The Smiths' music through the prism of sexual identity?

It works like this..Grown men are not going to listen to music geared towards 15 year old girls..Justin Beiber is not going to be a hit with grown men. he is popular because there are a ton of young girls who buy music and go to concerts...I like most grown men sure as heck are not going to listen to music for 15 years old girls, I live in a different worls.


IN the US the Smiths are not going to be popular with grown men. They are a gay act and their music sounds like it. There are not a ton of gay men that would make them popular...See how that works? I like most men are not going to listen to music that sounds like it is geared towards 15 year old gay kids, I live in a different world..

The Smiths did get big with the Brits because the culture is more feminine then American culture..For some reason you guys don't even see that the Smiths sound like fluff music geared towards a young gay audience.

Ooh get her! I'm British so I must be gay. Where would America be without us to educate you?

Oh my, stanlove, are you for real? Gosh!

"Ringy, melodic and a lot of emotion"; simply dismissed by stanlove in a negative context as "Gay".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-10 00:00 by Bastion.

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matxil

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stonehearted
<<the Smiths who are so loved in England are nothing at all, and I mean at all in America.>>

Except to those who sought out "alternative" music at the time....

WFNX Top 101 of the Decade (1989)

1. The Smiths - How Soon is Now?

2. The Cure - Just Like Heaven

3. Modern English - I Melt With You

4. The Cult - She Sells Sanctuary

5. U2 - Sunday Bloody Sunday

6. The B-52's - Love Shack

7. R.E.M. - It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)

8. The Cure - In Between Days

9. Talking Heads - Once in a Lifetime

10. New Order - Blue Monday

[en.wikipedia.org]

I don't want to throw fuel on the fire or anything, but I can't help commenting that to me that list looks like the Ultimate Songlist From Hell.

exactly

You've referenced Mick Ronson here and in the past you've talked about guitarists like Marc Bolan and Jimi Hendrix. You never wanted to aspire to that kind of rock guitar stature? No, because I came from a culture that thought that was macho nonsense. I loved and lived and breathed and obsessed about guitar culture from being a little kid when I was six or seven. But the culture I came out of as a teenager in the UK meant that kind of guitar shop posturing was outdated and pretty corny and had an overt sort of aspects of sexism to it and was just really overall pretty cheesy. As you pointed out I loved Bolan from the glam rock period but I wouldn't at all describe him as a macho man kind of rock guitar player.

Hardly. The only real rockin' Les Paul guys I liked was James Williamson and I still dohe's my all-time favorite guitar player. But I didn't like the kind of just fast frettin' nonsense and I still don't. I don't think it's got to me just what does it have to do with music? Blazing over a fretboard is of course a real exciting, great, exhilarating moment as is on Raw Power or it's like pop art or something then I'm all for it and it's fine. There was a lot of things in guitar culture that were my generation that didn't relate to my generation.

[www.ultimate]-
guitar.com/interviews/interviews/johnny_marr_on_fender_signature_guitar_it_was_such_a_privilege.html

Jimi Hendrix macho nonsense? Yeah he was mostly extroverted is his stage performances but his guitar playing could be as sweet, gentle and sensitive as it gets.





peace

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Naturalust
Jimi Hendrix macho nonsense? Yeah he was mostly extroverted is his stage performances but his guitar playing could be as sweet, gentle and sensitive as it gets.






peace

He never said he didn't like Hendrix.

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Big Al
Oh my, stanlove, are you for real? Gosh!

I love it. I am telling Brits exactly why the Smiths are a zero in the US and I get stuff like this..Once again to me its the worst sounding crap I have ever heard and I am not just saying that..But its also obvious to me listening to it that its music that sounds like its targeted to 10-15 year old guy males..Brits have a different culture and it doesn't come off like inBritish culture..Thats ok..

Pretty simple..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-02-10 18:49 by stanlove.

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stanlove
OK then you tell me why the Smiths who are so loved in England are nothing at all, and I mean at all in America. I have never met an America that likes them.

I have to admit that the Smiths never achieved the following here in the USA that they seem to have in the UK. In the 1980s they were much less popular than other British groups such as the Cure.

The Smiths just seem to have an attraction with the folks in the UK that we in the USA do not have. The same can be said for the Stone Roses. And I am sure the people in the UK can name bands popular here in the USA that never took off in the UK.

Thankfully, we both love the Stones.

I love the Smith's myself. Glad to see a thread dedicated to them. MEZ