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Silver DaggerQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
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Silver Dagger
One of the most remarkable and controversial songs in the Stones canon.
It’s also one that owes nothing to any musical path that the band had taken before – not blues nor r’n’b or pop or the spangly psychedelia that was the current rage and had informed their previous album.
This was bold new ground, the dawning of the rock era and a very edgy sound that perfectly complemented its daring and challenging subject matter, but more about that later.
The song blazes open with Mick's sexually charged feline-like squeal sung in a lewd falsetto before descending to a debauched growl and a boast of “yeah I got some tail”. That’s some opening gambit and this dizzy up and down effect is echoed throughout the song with glissando slide guitars adding to the sense of unease and menace.
(...)
That see-sawing effect reminds me a little bit of The Beatles’ Helter Skelter – a song which actually did go on to inspire unspeakable evil.
Where did the music come from? I’ve read somewhere that Jagger was inspired after hearing The Velvet Underground’s Heroin which has a similar intro. But as the song peaks it becomes almost shamanic and trance inducing. Was Brian was responsible for this with his interest in Moroccan pan music, I wonder?
I can also hear elements of the experimental London underground sound being created by Pink Floyd around this time, especially the last 90 seconds of the song which has Mick ad libbing some unintelligible words as it reaches its climax with tribal drumming and a deranged cacophony. It’s heady stuff and very powerful.
(...)
Stray Cat Blues is a true one off, a real rarity and a great example of the band's experimental side.
Well put, Silver Dagger! To me the vicous, primitive sound of this track, especially the guitars, is even more impressing and suggestive than the depraved lyrics. To me the VU-Connection makes sense, not so much regarding "Heroin" (exept for the intro), but the White Light/White Heat album. There*s also some "drone" element in the loud, shrieking guitars of Stray Cat Blues, I guess, just as in Street Fighting Man (you pointed out the possible Moroccan influence), which is also present in certain Velvet tracks. Anyway, I think this is a most interesting moment in Stones history... even more interesting in a way than, say, the Exile Period.
I don't think the Stones get their fair credit for helping to introduce world music/droning experimental sounds to a wider pop audience.
The Beatles and The Kinks are often cited as leading the way with the songs Norwegian Wood, Tomorrow Never Knows and See My Friends. The Stones charged into this area wholeheartedly with wild tracks such as Gomper, Sing This All Together (See What Happens) and Stray Cat Blues. In fact let's not forget the importance of Sympathy For The Devil as helping to introduce samba rhythms to a mainstream rock audience.
And before that: Paint It, Black
And let's not forget Mother's Little Helper. I think they must have lived near a kebab shop as there was certainly a strong Turkish influence in their music!
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runaway
... Mother's Little helper was recorded in 1965 in Hollywood, and I think Brian used the Indian sitar.
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DandelionPowderman
You should add that Keith played the 12-string, dear with sssoul
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with sssoul
In the studio track she's 15. It was in concert that he lowered it (for a while) to 13.Quote
DandelionPowderman
You should add that Keith played the 12-string, dear with sssoul
I wanted to break it to runaway gently, Dandy dear.
Plus which! While we're talking about great sonic predecessors to this track,
let's not forget The Lantern, Citadel and 2000 Man, where we can hear Keith developing Stray Cat's snarl
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runaway
... Mother's Little helper was recorded in 1965 in Hollywood, and I think Brian used the Indian sitar.
"(The strange guitar sound is) a 12-string with a slide on it. It's played slightly Oriental-ish. The track just needed something to make it twang."
- Keith in 2002, quoted here: [www.timeisonourside.com]
As for Stray Cat: This is the track that I bought Beggars for.
It was the most gloriously raunchy thing I had ever heard - still is, probably.
I mean just listen to that white-hot filthiness - I love the Rolling Stones
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liddas
It's incredible how such a messy bass works!
C
Agreed. But was it Bill or Keith on bass? René lists it as Keith and elsewhere I've seen it listed as Bill.
Drew
Keith all the way. Absolutely no doubt.
C
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sdstonesguy
Outstanding track on the greatest album ever made.
Mick's performance of this at the Wiltern in Los Angeles is probably his most stand out moment I have seen him live. I really suspect he wanted to show the VIPs who's who & what's what. I'm pretty sure the VIP balcony (b/c the rest of us got in line at midnight & made it front row center) all went home, quit their jobs & became members of a traveling circus. Why keep trying after seeing Mick that night?
Keef did hand me 2 picks that night Best show of my life...and I'm no novice.
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liddas
It's incredible how such a messy bass works!
C
Agreed. But was it Bill or Keith on bass? René lists it as Keith and elsewhere I've seen it listed as Bill.
Drew
Keith all the way. Absolutely no doubt.
C
So Nico Zentgraf got it wrong? From his website:
681206A 6th December: THE ROLLING STONES. LP ‘Beggars Banquet’ (Decca SKL 4955). Producer: Jimmy Miller. Line-up ‘Stray Cat Blues’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (mellotron)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Drew
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
drewmasterQuote
liddasQuote
drewmasterQuote
liddas
It's incredible how such a messy bass works!
C
Agreed. But was it Bill or Keith on bass? René lists it as Keith and elsewhere I've seen it listed as Bill.
Drew
Keith all the way. Absolutely no doubt.
C
So Nico Zentgraf got it wrong? From his website:
681206A 6th December: THE ROLLING STONES. LP ‘Beggars Banquet’ (Decca SKL 4955). Producer: Jimmy Miller. Line-up ‘Stray Cat Blues’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (mellotron)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Drew
It's Keith.
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liddas
It's incredible how such a messy bass works!
C
Agreed. But was it Bill or Keith on bass? René lists it as Keith and elsewhere I've seen it listed as Bill.
Drew
Keith all the way. Absolutely no doubt.
C
So Nico Zentgraf got it wrong? From his website:
681206A 6th December: THE ROLLING STONES. LP ‘Beggars Banquet’ (Decca SKL 4955). Producer: Jimmy Miller. Line-up ‘Stray Cat Blues’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (mellotron)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Drew
It's Keith.
Keith couldn't possibly have played such lame bass...and I'm surprised that even Bill could have done it...
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drewmaster
So Nico Zentgraf got it wrong? From his website:
681206A 6th December: THE ROLLING STONES. LP ‘Beggars Banquet’ (Decca SKL 4955). Producer: Jimmy Miller. Line-up ‘Stray Cat Blues’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (mellotron)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Drew
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Redhotcarpet
Keith probably on bass on GS as well.
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liddasQuote
drewmaster
So Nico Zentgraf got it wrong? From his website:
681206A 6th December: THE ROLLING STONES. LP ‘Beggars Banquet’ (Decca SKL 4955). Producer: Jimmy Miller. Line-up ‘Stray Cat Blues’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/BJ (mellotron)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Nicky Hopkins (p)/Rocky Dijon (congas)
Drew
I would say so.
Here is the isolated bass track from Gimme Shelter.
video: [www.youtube.com]
THIS is Bill.
The Stray Cat bass is clearly a guitarist work. The notes are fretted inaccurately (lots of buzzing), so there is less umpf in the tone, so to say, the time is wobbly (which to a certain extent can be justified if the SC bass was overdubbed) the licks are "guitarish" - it just can't be Bill. Or, if it was him, he must have been on some truly bad shi@t
C