For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Quote
OzHeavyThrobber
Even though Keith's execution is generally poor and in places timing out, I like his note choice a great deal.
Quote
OzHeavyThrobber
"Listening to isolated tracks is pointless. Keith plays WITH the music here, and the result, as we all know, is magical."
I agree Dandy. It's pretty bad bass playing so clearly is not Bill and it does sound like a guitarist at it. The only thing that surprises me is that I'm sure the bass is out of tune. No matter it being horribly played or out of tune - it just fits right in and works and as you say is magical.
Even though Keith's execution is generally poor and in places timing out, I like his note choice a great deal.
Quote
NICOS
Do you think Mick regretted that he used an 13 year old in the song....although we never know how old she really was as she probably suggested to show here ID.......but on the other hand maybe Mick just didn't wanted to know her real age at all.
Quote
runawayQuote
with sssoulQuote
runaway
... Mother's Little helper was recorded in 1965 in Hollywood, and I think Brian used the Indian sitar.
"(The strange guitar sound is) a 12-string with a slide on it. It's played slightly Oriental-ish. The track just needed something to make it twang."
- Keith in 2002, quoted here: [www.timeisonourside.com]
As for Stray Cat: This is the track that I bought Beggars for.
It was the most gloriously raunchy thing I had ever heard - still is, probably.
I mean just listen to that white-hot filthiness - I love the Rolling Stones
Mother's Little Helper " BJ Gtr, Sitar- Nico Zentgraf".
Beggars Banquet was probebly my first Stones album at the time and Stray Cat is a sexy track-amezing album.
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Drums: Charlie Watts
Bass: Bill Wyman
Acoustic guitars: Keith Richards & Brian Jones
12-string slide electric guitar: Keith Richards
Vocals: Mick Jagger
Nitzsche-phone: Jack Nitzsche
(The strange guitar sound is) a 12-string with a slide on it. It's played slightly Oriental-ish. The track just needed something to make it twang. Otherwise, the song was quite vaudeville in a way. I wanted to add some nice bite to it. And it was just one of those things where someone walked in and, Look, it's an electric 12-string. It was some gashed-up job. No name on it. God knows where it came from. Or where it went. But I put it together with a bottleneck. Then we had a riff that tied the whole thing together. And I think we overdubbed onto that. Because I played an acoustic guitar as well.
- Keith Richards, 2002
Quote
runaway
Thanks DandelionPowderman but I'm still curious...
Stones drummer Charlie Watts said of this song in In the 2003 book According to the Rolling Stones: "We've often tried to perform 'Mother's Little Helper' and it's never been any good, never gelled for some reason - it's either me not playing it right or Keith not wanting to do it like that. It's never worked. It's just one of those songs. We used to try it live but it's a bloody hard record to play, although we did perform it live on Ed Sullivan."
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Here's the live version from Honolulu 1966. Sounds good to me, but Keith's slide playing is a little wonky.
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Not even the Stones's own album liner notes have everything right
Quote
NaturalustQuote
DandelionPowderman
Not even the Stones's own album liner notes have everything right
Yeah, just ask MT about songwriting credits.Keith has probably replaced Bill's bass parts on more songs than has been listed, although I wouldn't doubt if parts from BOTH players were used in some of the final mixes. peace
Quote
OzHeavyThrobber
yeah sssoul it was "Happy". The bass line is pretty pedestrian that Keith put down so not sure why he wiped Bill's track (which no one ever got to hear damn it). Bill wasn't happy about it. I'm pretty sure it's in his (Bill's) second book.
Keith's bass on "Live with me" is pretty godamnned stellar though...
Quote
OzHeavyThrobber
yeah sssoul it was "Happy". The bass line is pretty pedestrian that Keith put down so not sure why he wiped Bill's track (which no one ever got to hear damn it). Bill wasn't happy about it. I'm pretty sure it's in his (Bill's) second book.
Keith's bass on "Live with me" is pretty godamnned stellar though...
Back on topic - I also love the live 69/70 version of SCB. Takes the most menacing song ever and redresses it as cotton candy. Allowed Jagger to slip in and tweak the otherwise brutal melody into a beautiful one. Taylor's playing really added something wonderful also me finks.
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I don't think Bill was present when they recorded Happy. According to Keith (and several authors)
the only one who were there were Keith, Jimmy Miller and Bobby Keys. Mick came in later to do his back up vocals.
Quote
with sssoulQuote
DandelionPowderman
I don't think Bill was present when they recorded Happy. According to Keith (and several authors)
the only one who were there were Keith, Jimmy Miller and Bobby Keys. Mick came in later to do his back up vocals.
That's what I know about Happy as well. I suppose Bill might have come up with his own Happy bass after the fact and got rejected,
but a] that doesn't sound real likely and b] the miffedness I'm recollecting was related to another number.
I shall rack my brains as soon as I find where I left the rack ... :E
Quote
Silver Dagger
One of the most remarkable and controversial songs in the Stones canon.
It’s also one that owes nothing to any musical path that the band had taken before – not blues nor r’n’b or pop or the spangly psychedelia that was the current rage and had informed their previous album.
This was bold new ground, the dawning of the rock era and a very edgy sound that perfectly complemented its daring and challenging subject matter, but more about that later.
The song blazes open with Mick's sexually charged feline-like squeal sung in a lewd falsetto before descending to a debauched growl and a boast of “yeah I got some tail”. That’s some opening gambit and this dizzy up and down effect is echoed throughout the song with glissando slide guitars adding to the sense of unease and menace.
I’d classify Stray Cat Blues as one of the Stones’ devil songs – right up there with the darkness evoked in Sympathy, Midnight Rambler, Gimme Shelter and Sister Morphine. There’s an inherent evil creeping all over it. An invitation to an orgy with the main participants being underage girls.
That see-sawing effect reminds me a little bit of The Beatles’ Helter Skelter – a song which actually did go on to inspire unspeakable evil.
Where did the music come from? I’ve read somewhere that Jagger was inspired after hearing The Velvet Underground’s Heroin which has a similar intro. But as the song peaks it becomes almost shamanic and trance inducing. Was Brian was responsible for this with his interest in Moroccan pan music, I wonder?
I can also hear elements of the experimental London underground sound being created by Pink Floyd around this time, especially the last 90 seconds of the song which has Mick ad libbing some unintelligible words as it reaches its climax with tribal drumming and a deranged cacophony. It’s heady stuff and very powerful.
So onto the subject matter. Sex with a minor. You couldn’t get away with that now and you shouldn’t have been able to get away with it then. But musicians did – both in real life and on record.
Mick sneers: “I can see you’re 15 years old, I don’t want your ID.” It’s a shocking statement and one that must have sent shivers down the spines of parents everywhere.
Donovan went one further in the song Mellow Yellow – a top 10 hit – in which he proclaimed “I’m just mad about 14 and she’s just mad about me”. Crazy times. The cops would have been knocking on their doors if that would have been now.
In fact Mick went one worse on the 1969 US tour when he changed the lyric to “I can see that you’re just 13 years old”.
Stray Cat Blues is a true one off, a real rarity and a great example of the band's experimental side.
Quote
paulywaul
Love your analysis SD. You should be a journalist you know ..........
Quote
LongBeachArena72
But what happens in the extended outro is stunning in its nihilistic menace. The rhythm guitars lay down a Nazi jackbooted march of death and the echo on Nicky's piano is positively cryptlike. They took a tale of teenage lust and turned it into an anthem of corruption that in that last minute and a half gobbled up and spat back out all the evil in the 20th century.
Quote
paulywaulQuote
Silver Dagger
One of the most remarkable and controversial songs in the Stones canon.
It’s also one that owes nothing to any musical path that the band had taken before – not blues nor r’n’b or pop or the spangly psychedelia that was the current rage and had informed their previous album.
This was bold new ground, the dawning of the rock era and a very edgy sound that perfectly complemented its daring and challenging subject matter, but more about that later.
The song blazes open with Mick's sexually charged feline-like squeal sung in a lewd falsetto before descending to a debauched growl and a boast of “yeah I got some tail”. That’s some opening gambit and this dizzy up and down effect is echoed throughout the song with glissando slide guitars adding to the sense of unease and menace.
I’d classify Stray Cat Blues as one of the Stones’ devil songs – right up there with the darkness evoked in Sympathy, Midnight Rambler, Gimme Shelter and Sister Morphine. There’s an inherent evil creeping all over it. An invitation to an orgy with the main participants being underage girls.
That see-sawing effect reminds me a little bit of The Beatles’ Helter Skelter – a song which actually did go on to inspire unspeakable evil.
Where did the music come from? I’ve read somewhere that Jagger was inspired after hearing The Velvet Underground’s Heroin which has a similar intro. But as the song peaks it becomes almost shamanic and trance inducing. Was Brian was responsible for this with his interest in Moroccan pan music, I wonder?
I can also hear elements of the experimental London underground sound being created by Pink Floyd around this time, especially the last 90 seconds of the song which has Mick ad libbing some unintelligible words as it reaches its climax with tribal drumming and a deranged cacophony. It’s heady stuff and very powerful.
So onto the subject matter. Sex with a minor. You couldn’t get away with that now and you shouldn’t have been able to get away with it then. But musicians did – both in real life and on record.
Mick sneers: “I can see you’re 15 years old, I don’t want your ID.” It’s a shocking statement and one that must have sent shivers down the spines of parents everywhere.
Donovan went one further in the song Mellow Yellow – a top 10 hit – in which he proclaimed “I’m just mad about 14 and she’s just mad about me”. Crazy times. The cops would have been knocking on their doors if that would have been now.
In fact Mick went one worse on the 1969 US tour when he changed the lyric to “I can see that you’re just 13 years old”.
Stray Cat Blues is a true one off, a real rarity and a great example of the band's experimental side.
Love your analysis SD. You should be a journalist you know ..........
Quote
drewmasterQuote
paulywaul
Love your analysis SD. You should be a journalist you know ..........
Agree 100%!! And same goes for LongBeachArena72 ... the observation below is simply brilliant.Quote
LongBeachArena72
But what happens in the extended outro is stunning in its nihilistic menace. The rhythm guitars lay down a Nazi jackbooted march of death and the echo on Nicky's piano is positively cryptlike. They took a tale of teenage lust and turned it into an anthem of corruption that in that last minute and a half gobbled up and spat back out all the evil in the 20th century.
Drew