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Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: November 14, 2014 00:36

Again that Page guy who stole a piece of lick grinning smiley





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Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: November 15, 2014 14:04

Only to add my acknowledgement, too, of the song, especially the studio version. And also to me the song has always through the years peaked during the extended outro. The amazing sound. In whatever words it is to be expressed. I cannot myself find any.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: buffalo7478 ()
Date: November 15, 2014 17:03

Mothers Little Helper, Sympathy, then THIS...as a catholic schoolboy I saw the Stones as getting dark, writing things that were so far outside societal norms...nasty debauchers...lol and I was drawn to it. They weren't the Beatles, or anything that had been playing on pop AM radio in my home. The lyrics are shocking now....when recorded, and then again re-done in 1969 live, this was an incredible leap. Mick didn't wanna hold your hand, Keith was playing twisted stuff...the guys my parents warned me about.,,but I like it

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Gemini ()
Date: November 15, 2014 18:34

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Here's the live version from Honolulu 1966. Sounds good to me, but Keith's slide playing is a little wonky.



Keith Richards isn't playing slide, Brian Jones played the slide on his rickenbacker 12 string when they played it live.

[www.voxac100.org.uk]

Probably the case for studio version as well, but Keith just didn't remember or didn't want to say it was Brian when asked about it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-15 19:06 by Gemini.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Gemini ()
Date: November 15, 2014 18:54

Quote
drewmaster
Ahhh, now we are talking about the Stones at their finest. Stray Cat Blues is so steeped in delirious lecherousness that I’m surprised the band wasn’t immediately arrested and locked away the day it was released. Everything works perfectly here, starting with that coy, teasing introduction. Mick is at the height of his powers, dripping with unbridled lust and sexual come-ons. Those lyrics are poetic in their carnality. Even the guitars sound like they are engaging in wanton acts of debauchery! Brian’s yowling slide perfectly complements Keith’s growling rhythm. Charlie, Bill and (near the end) Rocky Dijon swing like nobody’s business. Nicky sounds wonderful, as always. And Jimmy Miller’s production is immaculate.

A lascivious masterpiece that pushed the boundaries of sexual mores and musical excellence in 1968, and which sounds every bit as daring and vital today.

Drew

There isn't any slide guitar on Stray Cat Blues. Keith played all of the guitars.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Date: November 15, 2014 20:20

Quote
Gemini
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Here's the live version from Honolulu 1966. Sounds good to me, but Keith's slide playing is a little wonky.



Keith Richards isn't playing slide, Brian Jones played the slide on his rickenbacker 12 string when they played it live.

[www.voxac100.org.uk]

Probably the case for studio version as well, but Keith just didn't remember or didn't want to say it was Brian when asked about it.

That's what I should have remembered, thanks.

However, Keith said "I added the 12 string slide" + he has said he was into the 12 strings and bottlenecks in the mid/late 60s. No reason for not believing he played it on Aftermath.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: drewmaster ()
Date: November 15, 2014 21:43

Quote
Gemini
Quote
drewmaster
Ahhh, now we are talking about the Stones at their finest. Stray Cat Blues is so steeped in delirious lecherousness that I’m surprised the band wasn’t immediately arrested and locked away the day it was released. Everything works perfectly here, starting with that coy, teasing introduction. Mick is at the height of his powers, dripping with unbridled lust and sexual come-ons. Those lyrics are poetic in their carnality. Even the guitars sound like they are engaging in wanton acts of debauchery! Brian’s yowling slide perfectly complements Keith’s growling rhythm. Charlie, Bill and (near the end) Rocky Dijon swing like nobody’s business. Nicky sounds wonderful, as always. And Jimmy Miller’s production is immaculate.

A lascivious masterpiece that pushed the boundaries of sexual mores and musical excellence in 1968, and which sounds every bit as daring and vital today.

Drew

There isn't any slide guitar on Stray Cat Blues. Keith played all of the guitars.

How can you be sure of this? Many sources credit Brian as playing slide in SCB.

Drew

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Gemini ()
Date: November 15, 2014 22:36

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Gemini
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Here's the live version from Honolulu 1966. Sounds good to me, but Keith's slide playing is a little wonky.



Keith Richards isn't playing slide, Brian Jones played the slide on his rickenbacker 12 string when they played it live.

[www.voxac100.org.uk]

Probably the case for studio version as well, but Keith just didn't remember or didn't want to say it was Brian when asked about it.

That's what I should have remembered, thanks.

However, Keith said "I added the 12 string slide" + he has said he was into the 12 strings and bottlenecks in the mid/late 60s. No reason for not believing he played it on Aftermath.

Keith has said he didn't play slide until Beggars Banquet which doesn't take away from the second quote.

No reason to doubt that Brian played it on studio version as he did live. There are two guitars playing the motif on the studio version, so possible misremembering, partially remembering or selectivley remembering from Keith Richards.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Gemini ()
Date: November 15, 2014 22:41

Quote
drewmaster

How can you be sure of this? Many sources credit Brian as playing slide in SCB.

Drew

It isn't slide guitar and the licks and fills are in keeping with Keith's playing during 1967 - 1968.

Sources tend to copy one another without any musical analysis or real research in to who played something, hence why errors get stated and then repeated.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: triceratops ()
Date: November 15, 2014 23:45

Quote
Silver Dagger
I’d classify Stray Cat Blues as one of the Stones’ devil songs – right up there with the darkness evoked in Sympathy, Midnight Rambler, Gimme Shelter and Sister Morphine. There’s an inherent evil creeping all over it. An invitation to an orgy with the main participants being underage girls.

In fact Mick went one worse on the 1969 US tour when he changed the lyric to “I can see that you’re just 13 years old”.

Stray Cat Blues is a true one off, a real rarity and a great example of the band's experimental side.

Good term, "Devil songs". I never thought of Gimme Shelter as a devil song. But I agree on the others and don't listen to them. Sister Morphine took some real talent to put together. I like it except for the nasty lyrics.

Stray Cat is not as dark as the above tunes. It is about dark nasty fun as in sex. You cannot come out with such lyrics (sex w underage girl) today. Back then (1968) you could. IIRC correctly there was more controversy over the tune "Some Girls"

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: November 16, 2014 12:27

Quote
Doxa
Some five more pages of discussion of "Stray Cat Blues" here:[www.iorr.org]

Some voices now missed there giving their opinion, among others...

And some two pages more from 2010:[www.iorr.org]

- Doxa

I would like to venture a thought, preferably in the form of a question. As neither this thread nor the two in the links, which Doxa gives in the quote, mentions it, as far as I am able to discover, I am probably at fault. But here it goes:

What urged the band and Mick Jagger to a song with this lyrics? Was it simply to make a song about groupies in their own experience? Adding to their myth as a deliberate move? Or, and now I have to admit that I have not read a certain book. Neither seen any film based on it. But could the lyrics and the song have a literary outspring? Then, as an artistic motive by themselves as more or less from time to time partakers, translated into the sphere of their own experience of being surrounded, sometimes haunted, by willing young women and girls? I think about the preoccupation with the Lolita phenomenen, given rise to by the Russian novelist by name of Nabokov? Could this be a context, instead of seemingly only purely autobiographical from their own experience, but in case a reflection richer than that, in which we may or even ought to see "Stray Cat Blues"?

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: November 16, 2014 14:42

Quote
Witness
What urged the band and Mick Jagger to a song with this lyrics? ... I think about the preoccupation with the Lolita phenomenen, given rise to by the Russian novelist by name of Nabokov?

Lolita was 12, though; a 15-year-old would be way too old to qualify, and I doubt they needed any novels to fuel this one.
That filthy guitar is driving the glorious raunch anyway, not the lyrics. It would be a filthy instrumental.
It would be filthy even if the lyrics consisted of a shopping list.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Gemini ()
Date: November 16, 2014 15:07

Reflecting on real life experiences of young girls throwing themselves at them and the taking advantage of that situation. Also, plying up to the bad boy image.

Yes, they shagged under age girls and wrote a song about it.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: November 16, 2014 15:40

Yes, to both of you, but I was wondering about where the idea to make an outright song of the stuff came from, whatever younger ages it happened towards.

And yes, also with another and unsensational lyrics the prolonged outro would have impressed me. Even as it is, I don't react to it (or the guitar throughout) as necessarily "dirty" though, but only as, especially the outro, striking in a sensational sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-16 15:44 by Witness.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: November 16, 2014 15:50

Quote
Gemini
Reflecting on real life experiences of young girls throwing themselves at them and the taking advantage of that situation. Also, plying up to the bad boy image.

Yes, they shagged under age girls and wrote a song about it.

In passing, may I respectfully ask you, Gemini, if you might possibly be the resurrected His Majesty with another identity?

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: November 16, 2014 15:55

. oops! double post, sorry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-16 16:00 by with sssoul.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: with sssoul ()
Date: November 16, 2014 15:59

Quote
Witness
Yes, to both of you, but I was wondering about where the idea to make an outright song of the stuff came from, whatever younger ages it happened towards.
And yes, also with another and unsensational lyrics the prolonged outro would have impressed me. Even as it is, I don't react to it (or the guitar throughout) as necessarily "dirty" though, but only as, especially the outro, striking in a sensational sense.

Well, we all hear things differently, but I wasn't talking about just the lead-out.
Guitars yowling like cats in rutting season tend to sound dirty to me, especially set against rhythms like that
and that whole tension/upbuild sure helps too. Music that reeks of sex
is something the Rolling Stones have always been very gifted at.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: MingSubu ()
Date: November 16, 2014 15:59

I love this mess.




Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: November 16, 2014 16:07

Yes, I am aware, with sssoul, that you did not mean the outro only, and I discovered that, with myself in mind, I had at first written on my mobile as if I were to imply you meant only the outro. I corrected as best and fast as I could on such a writing device, possibly after you had read, but not yet answered my post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-16 16:09 by Witness.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Date: November 16, 2014 17:47

Quote
Gemini
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Gemini
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Here's the live version from Honolulu 1966. Sounds good to me, but Keith's slide playing is a little wonky.



Keith Richards isn't playing slide, Brian Jones played the slide on his rickenbacker 12 string when they played it live.

[www.voxac100.org.uk]

Probably the case for studio version as well, but Keith just didn't remember or didn't want to say it was Brian when asked about it.

That's what I should have remembered, thanks.

However, Keith said "I added the 12 string slide" + he has said he was into the 12 strings and bottlenecks in the mid/late 60s. No reason for not believing he played it on Aftermath.

Keith has said he didn't play slide until Beggars Banquet which doesn't take away from the second quote.

No reason to doubt that Brian played it on studio version as he did live. There are two guitars playing the motif on the studio version, so possible misremembering, partially remembering or selectivley remembering from Keith Richards.

Brian is God smiling smiley

But Keith said he added the 12 string slide, no matter what you say. They switched parts for live versions many times, so I wouldn't trust that as a proof of anything either.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: November 16, 2014 18:26

in the end part of Little Red Rooster you can see Keith using a 12 string acoustic-guitar in 1964: 3:30






Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: LuxuryStones ()
Date: November 16, 2014 18:44

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Gemini
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Gemini
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Here's the live version from Honolulu 1966. Sounds good to me, but Keith's slide playing is a little wonky.



Keith Richards isn't playing slide, Brian Jones played the slide on his rickenbacker 12 string when they played it live.

[www.voxac100.org.uk]

Probably the case for studio version as well, but Keith just didn't remember or didn't want to say it was Brian when asked about it.

That's what I should have remembered, thanks.

However, Keith said "I added the 12 string slide" + he has said he was into the 12 strings and bottlenecks in the mid/late 60s. No reason for not believing he played it on Aftermath.

Keith has said he didn't play slide until Beggars Banquet which doesn't take away from the second quote.

No reason to doubt that Brian played it on studio version as he did live. There are two guitars playing the motif on the studio version, so possible misremembering, partially remembering or selectivley remembering from Keith Richards.

Brian is God smiling smiley

But Keith said he added the 12 string slide, no matter what you say. They switched parts for live versions many times, so I wouldn't trust that as a proof of anything either.

And Keith also stated that Mick had a tiny todger although Jagger shagged Richards' partner on a certain occasion...Jagger and Pallenberg seemed to enjoy it though, so I wouldn't trust Keith's statement as a proof of anything either. Psychologists fodder.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Gemini ()
Date: November 16, 2014 18:45

Quote
DandelionPowderman

But Keith said he added the 12 string slide, no matter what you say. They switched parts for live versions many times, so I wouldn't trust that as a proof of anything either.

Keith says it so it must be completely true. eye rolling smiley

They didn't switch parts for live versions really during that era and there are two guitars playing the motif on the studio recording of Mothers Little Helper.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Date: November 16, 2014 18:56

Quote
Gemini
Quote
DandelionPowderman

But Keith said he added the 12 string slide, no matter what you say. They switched parts for live versions many times, so I wouldn't trust that as a proof of anything either.

Keith says it so it must be completely true. eye rolling smiley

They didn't switch parts for live versions really during that era and there are two guitars playing the motif on the studio recording of Mothers Little Helper.

We don't know, do we? Yes, sometimes they switched.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Gemini ()
Date: November 16, 2014 19:00

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Yes, sometimes they switched.

Can you show me some examples?

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Date: November 17, 2014 10:19

Quote
LuxuryStones
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Gemini
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Gemini
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Here's the live version from Honolulu 1966. Sounds good to me, but Keith's slide playing is a little wonky.



Keith Richards isn't playing slide, Brian Jones played the slide on his rickenbacker 12 string when they played it live.

[www.voxac100.org.uk]

Probably the case for studio version as well, but Keith just didn't remember or didn't want to say it was Brian when asked about it.

That's what I should have remembered, thanks.

However, Keith said "I added the 12 string slide" + he has said he was into the 12 strings and bottlenecks in the mid/late 60s. No reason for not believing he played it on Aftermath.

Keith has said he didn't play slide until Beggars Banquet which doesn't take away from the second quote.

No reason to doubt that Brian played it on studio version as he did live. There are two guitars playing the motif on the studio version, so possible misremembering, partially remembering or selectivley remembering from Keith Richards.

Brian is God smiling smiley

But Keith said he added the 12 string slide, no matter what you say. They switched parts for live versions many times, so I wouldn't trust that as a proof of anything either.

And Keith also stated that Mick had a tiny todger although Jagger shagged Richards' partner on a certain occasion...Jagger and Pallenberg seemed to enjoy it though, so I wouldn't trust Keith's statement as a proof of anything either. Psychologists fodder.

If you wanna go that route, there are a couple of quotes from Marianne about who was the "best Stone" as well smiling smiley

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Date: November 17, 2014 10:58

Quote
Gemini
Quote
DandelionPowderman

Yes, sometimes they switched.

Can you show me some examples?

Brian played the solo in the middle of Time Is On My Side live at some point. At least enough times to make Keith refer to it as "Brian's part".

Keith played the intro of Paint It Black live.

Brian also switches around on GOOMC live, something he didn't do on the studio version.

+ all the numerous examples of Brian playing different instruments/different arrangements/not playing at all studio vs. live.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-17 11:00 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Gemini ()
Date: November 17, 2014 11:12

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Brian played the solo in the middle of Time Is On My Side live at some point. At least enough times to make Keith refer to it as "Brian's part".

Keith played the intro of Paint It Black live.

Brian also switches around on GOOMC live, something he didn't do on the studio version.

+ all the numerous examples of Brian playing different instruments/different arrangements/not playing at all studio vs. live.

1) Brian never played the solo on TIOMS.

2) Keith played intro to PIB on studio version too.

3) Live, Brian played his part for GOOMC as per studio version. Repetitive lead line during verses, then to picking chordal part during chorus.

4) Examples please of Brian playing a distinctive motif or part live that Keith played on studio version.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-17 11:27 by Gemini.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Date: November 17, 2014 12:42

1. You know this because you know what happened better than Keith?
2. Yep, but not alone
3. No, he switches over to rhythm live
4. The switch above is pretty distinct.

Re: Track Talk: Stray Cat Blues
Posted by: Gemini ()
Date: November 17, 2014 12:55

Quote
DandelionPowderman
1. You know this because you know what happened better than Keith?
2. Yep, but not alone
3. No, he switches over to rhythm live
4. The switch above is pretty distinct.

1) Another instance of Keith having a memory slip.

2) The intro has Keith playing it himself in studio and live.

3) 12 string guitar, repetitive motif, then Picking chords as per studio version.

4) Examples please of Brian playing a distinctive motif or part live that Keith played on studio version.

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