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kahoosier
LOL actually Paul for some reason I thought of Sara on the 4 out of 5 tickets.
And I hate the viagogo thing , but its the chicken and egg question. In an era of increasing government control and legislation, there are many who think just adding more laws is not the answer. It could be argued that if people with 4 tickets would just be satisfied, as they more or less had to be 25 years ago, and refused to deal with the secondary market, it would dry up. If you want laws preventing this, even though you MIGHT have that fifth ticket in a different world, in this world buying it from the people you complain about is just a bit contradictory, it's biting the hand that feeds you no matter the cost of the food. Legislating any commodity is legislating morality. Again, you are allowed to buy 6 PIT tickets, and you do, because you are pretty sure that you're less fortunate friends will buy them. Even if you intend to sell them at cost, to the first guy up the street that gets the "unavailable" message, for him the result is the same as when Viagogo buys 500. That guy could easily yell "foul" and start preaching that each person only be allowed to buy a ticket for himself. Or maybe one plus another for a date...well maybe a brother-in-law will want to come. To legislate, each possibility will have to be approached and argued.
I am not disagreeing with you, something needs to be done, I am just not sure that inviting even more government control into Rock and Roll , a music that found it's greatest success by advocating less control, is the answer. Perhaps its time instead we all bite the bullet, and take what we get and leave the rest. Stop buying from these people until they go away. a hooker and a john, who is the biggest criminal? How about this, let them buy the tickets if the want then prosecute the people willing to pay extra? Maybe that is the law that needs to be passed. After all, that is somewhat how drug laws work, illegal to sell or to buy? Should we prosecute people that buy from scalpers? Or since we are those people, do we forgive them? Are they innocent or part of the problem? You mentioned a $50000 ticket, if someone offered you that , would you sell your ticket? Of course you would. What if it were illegal, of course you still would.
I don't have any answers, I am just saying a rush to legislate when we ourselves at times perpetuate the activity ( but just when WE NEED IT, when forced to get what we want) may come back to bite us in the ass some day.
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petewasbristol
The UK (I can only speak on behalf of my country on this) should implement an ID (photo) on ticket for major events, like Glastonbury Festival does along with a deposit being paid on the tickets. Then at a certain date (like Glastonbury) the ticket has to be paid in full. Those that don't pay the rest of the ticket get to have their deposit refunded and the tickets go back on sale for a final round. The ID and the lack of actual tickets in circulation will wipe out the secondary market.Glastonbury has had no secondary tickets for sale since the ID system was introduced. The technology is there to put this into practice right now.
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grzegorz67Quote
petewasbristol
The UK (I can only speak on behalf of my country on this) should implement an ID (photo) on ticket for major events, like Glastonbury Festival does along with a deposit being paid on the tickets. Then at a certain date (like Glastonbury) the ticket has to be paid in full. Those that don't pay the rest of the ticket get to have their deposit refunded and the tickets go back on sale for a final round. The ID and the lack of actual tickets in circulation will wipe out the secondary market.Glastonbury has had no secondary tickets for sale since the ID system was introduced. The technology is there to put this into practice right now.
Pete,
An excellent idea. I too am from the UK. (A Scot based near Swindon, not far from Bristol) The fact that only Glasto use it further points to collusion between primary and secondary sellers if the Primaries have failed to embrace said technology. I believe they've been using this system at Glasto for some years now so it's far from cutting edge. A far cry from queung up for tickets in the rain outside the Colston Hall....
I've just been looking on viagogo re Paris. Prices are definately falling as PW says. I reckon once they've built the stage they'll sell extra seats closer to it, once they know the exact dimensions of it. That's a frequent occurence. I've a feeling Pelouse VIP may stay stubbornly high for this one ...
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kahoosier
OH DEAR GOD NONE OF IT MATTERS ITS THE END TIMES , PAULYWAULY HAS CALLED ME A SEXIST BASTARD HAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHA
Have fun at all your shows you enlightened bastard...you can still get pit tickets for the second PERTH shop at cost
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paulywaulQuote
HopeYouGuessMyNameQuote
paulywaulQuote
HopeYouGuessMyName
I despise scalpers (touts) but here is why they are also welcomed
imagine the Stones announce a concert at a venue seating 20,000 and in order to be seen as doing something wonderful for their fans, they announce the price for tickets at 10 a euros or $15.00. The semand would be off the charts. EVERYONE WOULD WANT TO GO - hardcore fans, casual fans, disinterested people looking for a night out, people who knew not even the 'warhorses' but maybe just one song, people who knew no songs but who had heard that they were a pretty good band. I think you get the idea. Even if the tickets were sold on site at the box-office, one ticket to a customer, people would line up for days early to secure a ticket. They would essentially be sold out one week before sale date with a line 20,000 long camping out in the street days before sale date. (Listen, in America we have nut jobs camping out in front of Apple stores prior to the latest release of an iPhone!). So, in my Stones scenario, anyone living too far to camp out for a week would not get tickets, anyone who had a job could not get tickets, anyone who had a family with family obligations could not get a ticket. And if the Stones did this we would welcome scalpers as the only way of getting a ticket.
Yes yes, that's all very well. I'm hardly suggesting we go back to the pre-internet age where people had to queue up outside venues. We're in the internet age now whether we like it or not, and there's no going back.
But please do not tell me that there is not a way to effectively outlaw the current practices of the primary vendors and the secondary market re-sellers with whom they're in obvious cahoots, and furthermore - to implement measures that do to a great extent ensure that the people who buy tickets for an event actually GO to that event, and that if someone other than the purchaser of a ticket turns up with it - a check is run and if the name or ID doesn't tally, the ticket is invalidated and the person refused entry. There ARE any number of mechanisms that could be very easily employed to effectively discourage if not virtually eradicate the current state of affairs, it just needs THE WILL.
I know that we are in the internet age. Ok, so the stones announce a show at an arena where only the actual buyer of the ticket is allowed to see the show. They even limit tickets to TWO PER BUYER. TICKET PRICES ARE AN ASTOUNDINGLY LOW $20.00. STONES FANS AROUND THE WORLD REJOICE. FINALLY, THE BAND IS PLAYING FOR THEIR FANS NOT FOR THEIR LOVE OF MONEY. ONE MINOR PROBLEM. 20,000 seats, demand in the millions. Buying a ticket would be like winning the lottery. Sure, if I bought a ticket at this price I'd be happy. But zillions of real fans would be left without a ticket. IN OTHER WORDS, COUNTERINTUITIVELY, HIGHER PRICES GIVE REAL FANS A CHANCE TO SEE THE BAND. scalpers allow fans a another shot if they really want to go. PRICES TOO LOW WOULD BE A REAL NIGHTMARE! Outlawing of scalping would be 'tragic' in its own way
The runaway secondary market phenomenon has got nothing to do with one little rock n' roll band called the Rolling Stones, so stop using them as an example.
Here in UK it is ILLEGAL (get me - ILLEGAL !!!) to sell a ticket for a soccer match for ANYTHING other than its face value. Unfortunately, this piece of legislation ONLY pertains to THAT particular commodity, namely a ticket for a soccer match. What unquestionably needs to happen now is that this law needs to be extended to cover every type of event, whether it be film, theatre, music, sport - whatever.
These are not items that should be bought and sold speculatively, these are items that should be given a price, one single price, and sold at that price. NOT scooped by the truckload C/O an army of companies MASQUERADING AS FAN TO FAN TICKET EXCHANGE SITES (which they are most clearly NOT) and then re-sold, making the artist NO money - but the re-seller shitloads.
I disagree with your rather "accommodating" view of this modern day phenomenon strongly. With all due respect, I think you're rather missing the point here ........
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HopeYouGuessMyNameQuote
paulywaulQuote
HopeYouGuessMyNameQuote
paulywaulQuote
HopeYouGuessMyName
I despise scalpers (touts) but here is why they are also welcomed
imagine the Stones announce a concert at a venue seating 20,000 and in order to be seen as doing something wonderful for their fans, they announce the price for tickets at 10 a euros or $15.00. The semand would be off the charts. EVERYONE WOULD WANT TO GO - hardcore fans, casual fans, disinterested people looking for a night out, people who knew not even the 'warhorses' but maybe just one song, people who knew no songs but who had heard that they were a pretty good band. I think you get the idea. Even if the tickets were sold on site at the box-office, one ticket to a customer, people would line up for days early to secure a ticket. They would essentially be sold out one week before sale date with a line 20,000 long camping out in the street days before sale date. (Listen, in America we have nut jobs camping out in front of Apple stores prior to the latest release of an iPhone!). So, in my Stones scenario, anyone living too far to camp out for a week would not get tickets, anyone who had a job could not get tickets, anyone who had a family with family obligations could not get a ticket. And if the Stones did this we would welcome scalpers as the only way of getting a ticket.
Yes yes, that's all very well. I'm hardly suggesting we go back to the pre-internet age where people had to queue up outside venues. We're in the internet age now whether we like it or not, and there's no going back.
But please do not tell me that there is not a way to effectively outlaw the current practices of the primary vendors and the secondary market re-sellers with whom they're in obvious cahoots, and furthermore - to implement measures that do to a great extent ensure that the people who buy tickets for an event actually GO to that event, and that if someone other than the purchaser of a ticket turns up with it - a check is run and if the name or ID doesn't tally, the ticket is invalidated and the person refused entry. There ARE any number of mechanisms that could be very easily employed to effectively discourage if not virtually eradicate the current state of affairs, it just needs THE WILL.
I know that we are in the internet age. Ok, so the stones announce a show at an arena where only the actual buyer of the ticket is allowed to see the show. They even limit tickets to TWO PER BUYER. TICKET PRICES ARE AN ASTOUNDINGLY LOW $20.00. STONES FANS AROUND THE WORLD REJOICE. FINALLY, THE BAND IS PLAYING FOR THEIR FANS NOT FOR THEIR LOVE OF MONEY. ONE MINOR PROBLEM. 20,000 seats, demand in the millions. Buying a ticket would be like winning the lottery. Sure, if I bought a ticket at this price I'd be happy. But zillions of real fans would be left without a ticket. IN OTHER WORDS, COUNTERINTUITIVELY, HIGHER PRICES GIVE REAL FANS A CHANCE TO SEE THE BAND. scalpers allow fans a another shot if they really want to go. PRICES TOO LOW WOULD BE A REAL NIGHTMARE! Outlawing of scalping would be 'tragic' in its own way
The runaway secondary market phenomenon has got nothing to do with one little rock n' roll band called the Rolling Stones, so stop using them as an example.
Here in UK it is ILLEGAL (get me - ILLEGAL !!!) to sell a ticket for a soccer match for ANYTHING other than its face value. Unfortunately, this piece of legislation ONLY pertains to THAT particular commodity, namely a ticket for a soccer match. What unquestionably needs to happen now is that this law needs to be extended to cover every type of event, whether it be film, theatre, music, sport - whatever.
These are not items that should be bought and sold speculatively, these are items that should be given a price, one single price, and sold at that price. NOT scooped by the truckload C/O an army of companies MASQUERADING AS FAN TO FAN TICKET EXCHANGE SITES (which they are most clearly NOT) and then re-sold, making the artist NO money - but the re-seller shitloads.
I disagree with your rather "accommodating" view of this modern day phenomenon strongly. With all due respect, I think you're rather missing the point here ........
I am a Rolling Stones fan and a fan of Capitalism (much like Mick Jagger whom I admire) YOU WANT THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING PRICES... That my friend, is the road to SOCIALISM, TOTALITARIANISM, AND OTHER BAD ISMS.... I do not want the government telling me how much I can sell something that I own, that is, a piece of artwork or a ticket to an event. And furthermore, I don't want any government preventing me from buying anything I want at any price that I am willing to pay. Honestly, you live in the land of make-believe. And I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful, but only honest
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kahoosier
The prices below are cut and paste from Viagogo This has been standing for months as the ultimate sign of greed. The show is Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland, presumed last show of 2014. A2 is the block next to the catwalk on Ronnie's side. AND THEY DON'T EVEN LIST ROWS OR SEATS.This leaves insanity behind and approaches some sort of perversion.
A2 Floor M $1,175.00 Buy
A2 Floor $15,156.70* Buy
A2 Floor $15,156.70* Buy
A2 Floor $15,830.33* Buy
A2 Floor $16,503.97* Buy
A2 Floor $19,366.90* Buy
$20,000 for a ticket? For that I should be able to sing a duet with Lisa at least! What the hell, do you get to be dropped in by your own private helicopter?
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drbryant
Lots of talk about implementing laws to prevent resale.
I attended the Led Zeppelin reunion show at the O2 in 2007. There was a lottery for the tickets and winners were given the right to buy just 2 tickets for 125GBP each. There were reportedly 20 million applications for tickets, of which less than 15,000 were available to the general public. Organizers originally said that only winners could pick up tickets on the day of the show and would be wristbanded; and that they would monitor sites and any resold tickets would be denied entry. Hard core Zep fans who wanted to buy tickets second hand were irate - fansites organized petitions, calls were placed, letters written by lawyers, threatening to sue the organizers. Eventually, the promoter relented because I think they were genuinely concerned about the lawsuit. I didn't win the lottery, but was able to pick up a ticket for 250 GBP.
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shattered
Hi: paulywaul, is flipping houses the same only on a larger scale?
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Limbostone
For those who haven't seen it yet, the 2012 documentary "The Great Ticket Scandal":
[www.iorr.org]
Will anything have changed by now?
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HopeYouGuessMyName
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grzegorz67Quote
HopeYouGuessMyName
I am a Rolling Stones fan and a fan of Capitalism (much like Mick Jagger whom I admire) YOU WANT THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING PRICES... That my friend, is the road to SOCIALISM, TOTALITARIANISM, AND OTHER BAD ISMS.... I do not want the government telling me how much I can sell something that I own, that is, a piece of artwork or a ticket to an event. And furthermore, I don't want any government preventing me from buying anything I want at any price that I am willing to pay. Honestly, you live in the land of make-believe. And I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful, but only honest
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paulywaulQuote
grzegorz67Quote
HopeYouGuessMyName
I am a Rolling Stones fan and a fan of Capitalism (much like Mick Jagger whom I admire) YOU WANT THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING PRICES... That my friend, is the road to SOCIALISM, TOTALITARIANISM, AND OTHER BAD ISMS.... I do not want the government telling me how much I can sell something that I own, that is, a piece of artwork or a ticket to an event. And furthermore, I don't want any government preventing me from buying anything I want at any price that I am willing to pay. Honestly, you live in the land of make-believe. And I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful, but only honest
With respect, you are missing the main point. I too, agree that the economy should be driven by market forces, though they can't be left completely unchecked. They have to be regulated. Drug Dealing is Capitalism!!!.
What PW is stressing is the immediate diversion of tickets from Primary to Secondary Seller without Joe Public getting a sniff of a chance to buy them. That isn't capitalism - it's racketeering, tantamount to fraud, if not fraud full stop. To advertise a product at a given price, dangle it in front of the Customer, create a demand and expectation, then give them ZERO opportunity to buy at that price before it re-appears at a huge mark up elsewhere, with the disappointed customer looking on.
That, Ladies & Gents is SCANDALOUS and not a small bit CRUEL.
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HopeYouGuessMyNameQuote
paulywaulQuote
grzegorz67Quote
HopeYouGuessMyName
I am a Rolling Stones fan and a fan of Capitalism (much like Mick Jagger whom I admire) YOU WANT THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING PRICES... That my friend, is the road to SOCIALISM, TOTALITARIANISM, AND OTHER BAD ISMS.... I do not want the government telling me how much I can sell something that I own, that is, a piece of artwork or a ticket to an event. And furthermore, I don't want any government preventing me from buying anything I want at any price that I am willing to pay. Honestly, you live in the land of make-believe. And I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful, but only honest
With respect, you are missing the main point. I too, agree that the economy should be driven by market forces, though they can't be left completely unchecked. They have to be regulated. Drug Dealing is Capitalism!!!.
What PW is stressing is the immediate diversion of tickets from Primary to Secondary Seller without Joe Public getting a sniff of a chance to buy them. That isn't capitalism - it's racketeering, tantamount to fraud, if not fraud full stop. To advertise a product at a given price, dangle it in front of the Customer, create a demand and expectation, then give them ZERO opportunity to buy at that price before it re-appears at a huge mark up elsewhere, with the disappointed customer looking on.
That, Ladies & Gents is SCANDALOUS and not a small bit CRUEL.
Yup, that's about it !!
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paulywaul
ROME pit ticket prices are falling dramatically - here's an example from VIAGOGO this evening Thursday 22 May:
The Rolling Stones
Sunday, 22 June 2014 19:00
Circus Maximus, Rome, Italy
Section: Pit Area - Standing
Number of Tickets: 1
Price/Ticket €150.00
Booking Fee €22.50
Subtotal €172.50
Estimated Total Price
£139.70 + Handling and VAT
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Silver DaggerQuote
paulywaul
ROME pit ticket prices are falling dramatically - here's an example from VIAGOGO this evening Thursday 22 May:
The Rolling Stones
Sunday, 22 June 2014 19:00
Circus Maximus, Rome, Italy
Section: Pit Area - Standing
Number of Tickets: 1
Price/Ticket €150.00
Booking Fee €22.50
Subtotal €172.50
Estimated Total Price
£139.70 + Handling and VAT
That's ridiculously low. If I wasn't going to be sunning myself in Ibiza I'd go.
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paulywaulQuote
Silver DaggerQuote
paulywaul
ROME pit ticket prices are falling dramatically - here's an example from VIAGOGO this evening Thursday 22 May:
The Rolling Stones
Sunday, 22 June 2014 19:00
Circus Maximus, Rome, Italy
Section: Pit Area - Standing
Number of Tickets: 1
Price/Ticket €150.00
Booking Fee €22.50
Subtotal €172.50
Estimated Total Price
£139.70 + Handling and VAT
That's ridiculously low. If I wasn't going to be sunning myself in Ibiza I'd go.
Personally, I'd sun myself in Rome AND get to see the Stones at the same time !!
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Stoneage
There is absolutely no need to buy tickets from scalpers or scalping firms. Usually, even though the event is, supposedly sold out, there are tickets left at the box office days before the event. And remember there is a significant risk in buying "black market" tickets. They might not be valid.One way to prevent scalping is to minimize the amount of tickets you can buy at each time. 10 is way to much and endorses scalping. Half of that or less should be enough.