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BrennosQuote
DandelionPowderman
He's sending it to you, signed.
Seriously?
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Silver Dagger
Anyone else think that Mick and Keith should have afforded Brian a songwriting credit for tunes where his imaginative musical colouring enhanced and even improved their original ideas? I certainly do.
Songs like Ruby Tuesday, Under My Thumb and Out Of Time gained an extra sheen and more lustre thanks to his input. I guess the difference is that his contribution was made in the studio and not in the classic 'across the kitchen table' situation where dual songwriters usually co-pen their material.
I wonder if the times that Ronnie has been given a songwriting credit emanate from inspiring the germ of a song idea at the very beginning of the songwriting process or from adding an idea in the studio. If it's the latter then I feel sorry that Brian too wasn't afforded that opportunity and missed the chance to gain a stronger foothold in the Stones' songwriting team.
Squabbling over songwriting rights and jealousy of band members that don't get that money has seen the demise of many a band. Unfortunately I believe this was oneof the major factors that led to Brian's dissatisfaction with the Stones. Had he pushed himself a bit more and come up with the goods it might have been so different.
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Turner68
coming up with great ideas, instrumentation, intros, etc. does not constitute songwriting.
great example: mr tambourine man recorded by the byrds. dylan got the songwriting credit. hear everything the byrds added to that song? none of it constitutes songwriting. it's arranging. if you think about it like that, it becomes very obvious why for example his contributions to under my thumb were not 'songwriting'. that doesn't take away how great they are, however.
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His MajestyQuote
Turner68
coming up with great ideas, instrumentation, intros, etc. does not constitute songwriting.
great example: mr tambourine man recorded by the byrds. dylan got the songwriting credit. hear everything the byrds added to that song? none of it constitutes songwriting. it's arranging. if you think about it like that, it becomes very obvious why for example his contributions to under my thumb were not 'songwriting'. that doesn't take away how great they are, however.
Kinda, but it depends. The Byrds clearly took a completed song and arranged it.
The above happening at the time of the songs creation means that intros, arrangement ideas etc can and do influence the writing of a song.
Do note that many a band has song writing credits which credit people who have contributed exactly the same kinds of things Brian did contribute.
Business.
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His Majesty
So, essentially, Brian would have received some song writing credits had he been in a band whose main song writers weren't so greedy and protective of credits. ><
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His Majesty
So, essentially, Brian would have received some song writing credits had he been in a band whose main song writers weren't so greedy and protective of credits. ><
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His Majesty
So, essentially, Brian would have received some song writing credits had he been in a band whose main song writers weren't so greedy and protective of credits. ><
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SackeQuote
His Majesty
So, essentially, Brian would have received some song writing credits had he been in a band whose main song writers weren't so greedy and protective of credits. ><
So do Beatles 'fans' also write about Ringo not getting songwriting credits? And call therefore Paul en John 'greedy'? Ringo made major contributions to Lennon/McCartney songs....
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2000 LYFHQuote
SackeQuote
His Majesty
So, essentially, Brian would have received some song writing credits had he been in a band whose main song writers weren't so greedy and protective of credits. ><
So do Beatles 'fans' also write about Ringo not getting songwriting credits? And call therefore Paul en John 'greedy'? Ringo made major contributions to Lennon/McCartney songs....
Speaking of drummers - note the Bonham credits on these Led Zeppelin songs, I wonder what he wrote on these?
Good Times Bad Times (Page/Jones/Bonham)
Communication Breakdown (Page/Jones/Bonham)
How Many More Times (Page/Jones/Bonham)
Whole Lotta Love (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
The Lemon Song (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Heartbreaker (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Out On The Tiles (Page/Plant/Bonham)
Rock and Roll (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
When The Levee Breaks (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham/Memphis Minnie)
The Crunge (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
D'yer Mak'er (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
The Ocean (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
In My Time of Dying (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Kashmir (Page/Plant/Bonham)
Boogie With Stu (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham/Ian Stewart & Mrs. Valens)
Royal Orleans (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Darlene (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
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Mathijs
Bill Wyman did not recieve credits for his fantastic bass lines on so many songs, and to date never requested any. Wyman has complained about just every penny not earned, but never complained about not getting song credits.
That's certainly saying something...
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Sacke
...Ringo made major contributions to Lennon/McCartney songs....
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DandelionPowderman
If someone present you a song you don't «write» a bass line for it, you add it to the song. Without the song that bass line probably never would exist.
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DancelittleSisterQuote
DandelionPowderman
If someone present you a song you don't «write» a bass line for it, you add it to the song. Without the song that bass line probably never would exist.
On the other hand, if Bill hadn't come up with the great bass track on "Miss You", the song might have ended up in the vaults? Songwriting is not always the virtue that it seems to be.
The link below is a nice read, probably a bit outdated. Halfway it's about the Glimmer Twins.
[lawyerdrummer.com]
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2000 LYFHQuote
SackeQuote
His Majesty
So, essentially, Brian would have received some song writing credits had he been in a band whose main song writers weren't so greedy and protective of credits. ><
So do Beatles 'fans' also write about Ringo not getting songwriting credits? And call therefore Paul en John 'greedy'? Ringo made major contributions to Lennon/McCartney songs....
Speaking of drummers - note the Bonham credits on these Led Zeppelin songs, I wonder what he wrote on these?
Good Times Bad Times (Page/Jones/Bonham)
Communication Breakdown (Page/Jones/Bonham)
How Many More Times (Page/Jones/Bonham)
Whole Lotta Love (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
The Lemon Song (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Heartbreaker (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Out On The Tiles (Page/Plant/Bonham)
Rock and Roll (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
When The Levee Breaks (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham/Memphis Minnie)
The Crunge (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
D'yer Mak'er (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
The Ocean (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
In My Time of Dying (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Kashmir (Page/Plant/Bonham)
Boogie With Stu (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham/Ian Stewart & Mrs. Valens)
Royal Orleans (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Darlene (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
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2000 LYFH
Speaking of drummers - note the Bonham credits on these Led Zeppelin songs, I wonder what he wrote on these?
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DoxaQuote
2000 LYFHQuote
SackeQuote
His Majesty
So, essentially, Brian would have received some song writing credits had he been in a band whose main song writers weren't so greedy and protective of credits. ><
So do Beatles 'fans' also write about Ringo not getting songwriting credits? And call therefore Paul en John 'greedy'? Ringo made major contributions to Lennon/McCartney songs....
Speaking of drummers - note the Bonham credits on these Led Zeppelin songs, I wonder what he wrote on these?
Good Times Bad Times (Page/Jones/Bonham)
Communication Breakdown (Page/Jones/Bonham)
How Many More Times (Page/Jones/Bonham)
Whole Lotta Love (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
The Lemon Song (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Heartbreaker (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Out On The Tiles (Page/Plant/Bonham)
Rock and Roll (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
When The Levee Breaks (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham/Memphis Minnie)
The Crunge (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
D'yer Mak'er (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
The Ocean (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
In My Time of Dying (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Kashmir (Page/Plant/Bonham)
Boogie With Stu (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham/Ian Stewart & Mrs. Valens)
Royal Orleans (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
Darlene (Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham)
I have no much knowledge about the details behind Led Zeppelin credition policy, but it looks like that they were making a kind of statement there: being a band they were, strong individuals, all of them like solo players, they wanted to recognize the significance of each member in the outcome. This is to say that they also treated 'songs' a bit differently than they traditionally are taken ('just' melody and lyrics), more like a result of a group effort, each instrument having a 'say' in the whole.
There is no right or wrong in matters like these, but a contingent social convention how to see the stuff (or divide the cake). Someone always decides these matters, and seemingly Zeppelin had initially a rather democratic constitution, or the guys who decided these matters (Page? Plant?) a more altruistic approach or were applying different principles to the songs. It isn't actually much different than what the Stones did in the early day with their collective pseudonym Nanker Phelge, only that of instead emphasizing each contribitor, the Stones were emphazing the whole band effort. (Other similarity: neither hesitated 'borrowing' song ideas from the blues canon...)
- Doxa
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DandelionPowderman
By almost always to leave one member out?
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DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
By almost always to leave one member out?
What do you mean by that? Jones?
- Doxa
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DandelionPowderman
If someone present you a song you don't «write» a bass line for it, you add it to the song. Without the song that bass line probably never would exist.
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His MajestyQuote
DandelionPowderman
If someone present you a song you don't «write» a bass line for it, you add it to the song. Without the song that bass line probably never would exist.
If the rhythm of the bassline then affects and changes the rhythm of the melody a song writing contribution has been made.
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DandelionPowderman
No
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DandelionPowderman
If someone present you a song you don't «write» a bass line for it, you add it to the song. Without the song that bass line probably never would exist.