Tell Me :
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I didn't know that - which parts they he write?
that parts sense The make.
Maybe, maybe not.
There are two pianos, one through whole song, another comes in during the chorus.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-30 23:00 by His Majesty.
Yet he didn't play that melody himself on RT?
He plays melodies throughout, some of which are same/similar to the vocal melody.
I should have said he's typically "credited."
He plays short harmonic melody pieces. Beautiful indeed, but not the vocal melody.
He also does that, but he does play parts which are same/similar to the vocal melody.
Yes, the suspended notes that start the chorus. But he plays them in different places in the song
Vice versa covers that.
Maybe it was a blend of Brian and Keith melodies coming together to form the final vocal melody?
One could argue that it is quite suggestive that Jagger didn't say Keith wrote it, only that he (Jagger) didn't.
Ridiculous that Jagger got a credit.
Thanks!
Can you tell us anything about the 1963 demos Sure I Do and I Want You To Know?
It's an odd situation, isn't it... on one hand it seems like Brian didn't care about the money if he gave up on all these songwriting credits like some suppose... on the other hand he infamously took a bigger cut from the band's earnings than the other fellows back at the start of the group, so clearly he cared about the money mightily (and who wouldn't) and was prepared to be hardcore about it.
For this reason I don't believe an image of Brian as this artistic genius who was so above petty things like money and credit he just signed them over to jagger with a shrug. Something much more fundamental was happening, I don't think we'll ever know exactly what.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-31 01:18 by Turner68.
How did he record it?
Lol.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: October 30, 2015 21:41
Quote
Brennos
If someone basically comes up with the melody and arrangement of the song ( like Brian did with Ruby Tuesday )
I didn't know that - which parts they he write?
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 30, 2015 22:24
Quote
Koen
I didn't know that - which parts they he write?
that parts sense The make.
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
Brennos
()
Date: October 30, 2015 22:58
'I used to say to Brian, "What on Earth are you doing? You write some of these songs and you give the name over as if Mick Jagger has done it. Do you understand, you're giving them thousands of pounds!" All the time I used to tell him, "You're writing a blank check!"' - Stan Blackbourne ( Stones' accountant )
Brian introduced the melody on a recorder and contributed piano. Jack Nitzsche did the piano on the final studio recording, but it was Brian's melody.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-30 23:02 by Brennos.
Quote
Koen
I didn't know that - which parts they he write?
Brian introduced the melody on a recorder and contributed piano. Jack Nitzsche did the piano on the final studio recording, but it was Brian's melody.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-30 23:02 by Brennos.
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 30, 2015 22:59
Quote
Brennos
Jack Nitzsche did the piano on the final studio recording...
Maybe, maybe not.
There are two pianos, one through whole song, another comes in during the chorus.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-30 23:00 by His Majesty.
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 30, 2015 23:08
Quote
Brennos
'I used to say to Brian, "What on Earth are you doing? You write some of these songs and you give the name over as if Mick Jagger has done it. Do you understand, you're giving them thousands of pounds!" All the time I used to tell him, "You're writing a blank check!"' - Stan Blackbourne ( Stones' accountant )Quote
Koen
I didn't know that - which parts they he write?
Brian introduced the melody on a recorder and contributed piano. Jack Nitzsche did the piano on the final studio recording, but it was Brian's melody.
Yet he didn't play that melody himself on RT?
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 30, 2015 23:18
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Yet he didn't play that melody himself on RT?
He plays melodies throughout, some of which are same/similar to the vocal melody.
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
Brennos
()
Date: October 30, 2015 23:29
Quote
His MajestyQuote
Brennos
Jack Nitzsche did the piano on the final studio recording...
Maybe, maybe not.
There are two pianos, one through whole song, another comes in during the chorus.
I should have said he's typically "credited."
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 30, 2015 23:45
Quote
His MajestyQuote
DandelionPowderman
Yet he didn't play that melody himself on RT?
He plays melodies throughout, some of which are same/similar to the vocal melody.
He plays short harmonic melody pieces. Beautiful indeed, but not the vocal melody.
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 30, 2015 23:49
Quote
DandelionPowderman
He plays short harmonic melody pieces. Beautiful indeed, but not the vocal melody.
He also does that, but he does play parts which are same/similar to the vocal melody.
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 30, 2015 23:53
Quote
His MajestyQuote
DandelionPowderman
He plays short harmonic melody pieces. Beautiful indeed, but not the vocal melody.
He also does that, but he does play parts which are same/similar to the vocal melody.
Yes, the suspended notes that start the chorus. But he plays them in different places in the song
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 31, 2015 00:00
More than that.
The point is, it is easy to conclude that the vocal melody was in part influenced by the recorder lines and/or vice versa, to varying degrees etc etc.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-31 00:09 by His Majesty.
The point is, it is easy to conclude that the vocal melody was in part influenced by the recorder lines and/or vice versa, to varying degrees etc etc.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-31 00:09 by His Majesty.
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 31, 2015 00:18
How do we know it wasn't the other way around?
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 31, 2015 00:25
Quote
DandelionPowderman
How do we know it wasn't the other way around?
Vice versa covers that.
Maybe it was a blend of Brian and Keith melodies coming together to form the final vocal melody?
One could argue that it is quite suggestive that Jagger didn't say Keith wrote it, only that he (Jagger) didn't.
Ridiculous that Jagger got a credit.
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
rootsman
()
Date: October 31, 2015 00:49
Quote
VideoJames
Over the years I have spoken with people very close to Brian and he did write a few songs, whether they were fully completed has always been in debate. Many, many years ago I acquired some master tapes of The Rolling Stones from the years 1966 till 1970.
Many were 1/2 inch tape reel to reel tapes that were 4 track recordings at 15 IPS. A few from 1968 were 2 inch tapes that were 8 track recordings also at 15 IPS. But within these were a few 1/4 inch 10 inch reels, one which read B.Jones; on it was recordings Brian made in 1969. One was a slow number called "Anybody Seen My Baby", another was a track titled either "Chow Time" or "Have a cup of Tea" there was also a slow bluesy instrumental track, that had lots of keyboard. Also a tape with the Bombay Sisters that Brian must have been working on or producing, I am not sure what his contribution was for the song. I also have a 10inch reel to Reel that had some of the Pipes of Pan of JouJouka recordings but I do not know if it is outtakes from the L.P. that was released or the L.P. itself..
Some of the people that I spoke to over the years about Brian's songwriting and recordings were Anita Pallenberg, Alexis Korner, Andrew Oldham, George Chkiantz, Gene Pitney, Stash and Ian Stewart to name a few.. Some said they recall hearing basic tracks unfinished (as were the recordings I had of Brian's music) none with titles as far as I recalled. So here are a few more Brian Jones tracks to add to the list.
Thanks!
Can you tell us anything about the 1963 demos Sure I Do and I Want You To Know?
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: October 31, 2015 01:14
Quote
BrennosQuote
Turner68
coming up with great ideas, instrumentation, intros, etc. does not constitute songwriting.
Perhaps, but then slapping your lyrics over someone else's musical arrangement shouldn't constitute song writing either. Maybe we should clarify exactly what song writing is. Can't a song be written without lyrics? What I'm getting at is this... If someone basically comes up with the melody and arrangement of the song ( like Brian did with Ruby Tuesday ) didn't they basically write it? At the very least they were a major component of the song writing process. Keith added updated lyrics, and no doubt he should be credited for that, but the core of that song is basically Brian.
So why is it that someone could add lyrics to a song and be a "song writer" but if they add instruments, melodies, and accents they cannot? I don't think song writing should be defined only by lyrics. Everybody in a band who contributed to the song in some fashion helped "write it" IMHOQuote
DandelionPowderman
Adding stuff to a song someone has written is not writing the song.
If I spent two days writing a song, and some bass player came up with a bassline that altered the song somewhat he/she would never get songwriting credit. Simply because he/she didn't write the song.
You don't see the difference here?
Similarly, If I spent days writing a song and came up with the melody and musical arrangements, and then someone else added the lyrics on top of it, I'd be a little pissed if they said that "they" wrote the song. No.... "WE" wrote the song.
But that seems to be the difference between many songwriters ( or contributors? ) and Brian Jones. Brian didn't seem to care so much about "getting credit" per say. If he was, well, he didn't really demonstrate that nor was he very assertive on that matter. It really seems like he just wanted some recognition from the band that he was losing. A "pat on the back" or a "thank you" from his old mates probably would have sufficed for him, but he felt he wasn't getting that.
It's an odd situation, isn't it... on one hand it seems like Brian didn't care about the money if he gave up on all these songwriting credits like some suppose... on the other hand he infamously took a bigger cut from the band's earnings than the other fellows back at the start of the group, so clearly he cared about the money mightily (and who wouldn't) and was prepared to be hardcore about it.
For this reason I don't believe an image of Brian as this artistic genius who was so above petty things like money and credit he just signed them over to jagger with a shrug. Something much more fundamental was happening, I don't think we'll ever know exactly what.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-31 01:18 by Turner68.
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: October 31, 2015 13:53
Quote
Brennos
Brian introduced the melody on a recorder
How did he record it?
Re: Brian Jones and songwriting
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 31, 2015 14:16
Quote
KoenQuote
Brennos
Brian introduced the melody on a recorder
How did he record it?
Lol.
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