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treaclefingers

And you need to get some new hyperbole.

Anyway, I won't post anymore to this condolence thread...very sad to keep getting off track by people who need to hear themselves shout.

Show a little decorum and at least move the discussion to a more appropriate thread.

that's funny, since you are the shouter. The only opinions I have offered were in defense of those attacked for offering opinions, differring with those who say that the event should not be discussed. And you call that, based on nothing, as being based on my need to hear myself shout, when in fact it was based on my desire to hear what OTHER people have to say, not me. You parrot cliches that have no relation to what you purport to refer to. This thread long ago lost any "decorum", not my fault (not yours either).

As for my self, I just hope that L'Wren's family and dear ones, including Mick Jagger can overcome this tragedy.

All the gossip about people who we actually don't know, no matter how famous they are, it's just not for me. Frankly, I think they are entitled to their privacy specially in hard times like this.

And regarding the tour, that's secondary also. I'm sure The Rolling Stones and their colaborators will figure it out in one way or another as it is their right. But first things first.

Man, this thread is absurd. There are only a few very simple facts worth noting:

1) MJ and L'Wren had a long term rationship
2) suicide is 100% the fault of the person that committed it
3) Everyone that knew L'Wren has been hurt by this

And finally, life goes on for the living.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-19 23:12 by Woz.

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lem motlow

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big4
There should be three threads instead of this unwieldy monstrosity which started as soon as news of L'Wren broke. They should be:

A dedicated condolences to L'Wren thread
A post your condolences/thoughts/wishes/love to Mick, the Stones thread
A conjecture, news, rumors, theories thread where people can postulate and hypothesize what has happened, etc...

Make all them sticky's and this way people who want to console Mick can do so, those who wish to write codolences to L'Wren can do so and those who wish to share news, opinions, thoughts about the who, what, why, and how of this tragedy can do do. Otherwise you have nothing but a huge cluster....of bitching, arguing, condolences, well wishes, etc...

1.great,perfect

2.thats also a good idea

3. ok-stop.this is the problem.in case you haven't figured it out the guy who owns this website really likes the rolling stones.this isnt difficult people-

he doesnt want to see it dragged into the gutter buy a bunch of jagger haters and gossip mongers who are gonna attack mick,dredge up everything he's ever done wrong in his life and figure out creative ways to underhandedly blame him for what happened.

there is nothing to "discuss" because you cant "discuss" something you know absolutly nothing about.

nobody is having their "free speech" taken away-you have the right to go wherever you want on the net and say whatever you like or go and make your very own website-

there are actual very bad people in the world who do incredible harm and they arent people who make dresses and sing songs for a living.if you wanna try to make it out that way theres a whole sewer of an internet to swim in and plenty of vermin to go along with you,but not here,not now.

you've taken things to a bit of the extreme there lem, especially that last part. there should a place to post news articles at least. this is a huge event which is in the news worldwide, to behave as if it never happened is a bit bizarre. these are two people who chose to put their life in the public eye-both the good and the bad. As the weeks go on I think that questions about how will this effect the band, how will it effect Mick-both personally and professionally, as well as tour questions are all legitimate. They will certainly be asked by the general public and media, far better for educated and passionate Stones fans debate such things than talking heads in the media or people who know the band only in passing via Hot Rocks or the hits.

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silkcut1978_

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Munichhilton

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silkcut1978_

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stonesrule
Thank you Dr. Bryant!

She made her sad decision and it is not OUR business to know every personal detail.

BV would not want HIS "family stuff" on IORR.

Finally something made me laugh - Mick Jagger is a superstar, he might dream of privacy but that's the price for his fame. BV is BV - who cares for his (or even mine) "family stuff"? What are you comparing?

silk! great to see you around, but why in this thread?? It's a mind field

I was looking for someone who cares for my family stuff :-(

Alright alright I care...now let's get the hell outta here before we're decommissioned...

@Woz

2) suicide is 100% the fault of the person that committed it

The FAULT

You might like to use a more sensitive expression, otherwise you do not understand what it´s all about.....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-19 23:40 by ThroughTheLonelyNights.

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lem motlow

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big4
There should be three threads instead of this unwieldy monstrosity which started as soon as news of L'Wren broke. They should be:

A dedicated condolences to L'Wren thread
A post your condolences/thoughts/wishes/love to Mick, the Stones thread
A conjecture, news, rumors, theories thread where people can postulate and hypothesize what has happened, etc...

Make all them sticky's and this way people who want to console Mick can do so, those who wish to write codolences to L'Wren can do so and those who wish to share news, opinions, thoughts about the who, what, why, and how of this tragedy can do do. Otherwise you have nothing but a huge cluster....of bitching, arguing, condolences, well wishes, etc...

1.great,perfect

2.thats also a good idea

3. ok-stop.this is the problem.in case you haven't figured it out the guy who owns this website really likes the rolling stones.this isnt difficult people-

he doesnt want to see it dragged into the gutter buy a bunch of jagger haters and gossip mongers who are gonna attack mick,dredge up everything he's ever done wrong in his life and figure out creative ways to underhandedly blame him for what happened.

there is nothing to "discuss" because you cant "discuss" something you know absolutly nothing about.

nobody is having their "free speech" taken away-you have the right to go wherever you want on the net and say whatever you like or go and make your very own website-

there are actual very bad people in the world who do incredible harm and they arent people who make dresses and sing songs for a living.if you wanna try to make it out that way theres a whole sewer of an internet to swim in and plenty of vermin to go along with you,but not here,not now.

I saw your attack on Cindy and I'm surprised you're not banned. You really should apologize. She was clearly bullied and I knew she'd react the wrong way, by being offended, and how that would lead to her being banned eventually. And by the way, I dont think I've agreed with Cindy on anything ever, I dont know the person but this is a real low.

I find it interesting that people on this forum, because it's moderated, act like theyre expecting a pat on the shoulder after attacking some lone poster who dares discusss a hot (on)topic. To me that is a sign of weakness.

She started a thread about a very tragic but, it can be said, intriguing part of the Stones ongoing story and that thread was of course bombed with pointless posts about the morals of Cindy.

BTW, I think this forum is really great because it's moderated by BV. Im not just saying that I actually thought about it. It's what makes iorr unique. If everything was tolerated the forum would change, it wouldnt be the same thing. Iorr has a certain rep. Maybe the aura of the disussions being moderated to some extent pulls out the best in us but also creates a narrative.

Maybe Cindy broke an invisible rule of that narrative when (reporting) posting a "real" story, in the form of gossip that was already all over the world, but still something that might be true or real i.e not republished from the Stones PR. By introducing it here she broke a social code. The "right" thing would have been to mention it and then attack the source of the gossip.

It is a matter of showing a little bit of respect to MJ, who is suffering very much right now. Try to imagine if it was your own wife / husband / loved one that all of a sudden had committed suicide. Show a bit respect.

My condolensces to Mick and all L'wren Scott's family and friends. R.I.P..

Condolences to her family and to Mick..

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-03-20 15:21 by SquealingTea.

I have seen her at one Stones gig and much closer up at a gallery event in London. She was an extremely striking woman, very chic and polished with great style. I definitely noticed her wonderful posture as most tall women tend to stoop. She made me think of the Duchess of Windsor - despite the disparity in height, obviously - both being so very thin, Americans adopting a very European aesthetic, dark hair, pale skin and unconventional beauty.

By chance last Sept I was in Chelsea at the house next door to Mick's called Lindsey House historic,and L'Wren was just leaving with her driver out the large gated drive. I waved and she was gone.

I 've seen L'Wren in Cannes 2010, remember a large smile on her face.
Sici

Mick's love songs tend to be ambiguous plus he and the Stones haven't exactly been prolific this century but I wonder what songs whose lyrics you think may have been inspired by L'Wren or their relationship.

If anything it'd have to be off 'A Bigger Bang', & even then it would only be speculation, unless you saw a direct quote by Mick saying he specifically wrote those lyrics for L'Wren.

I've never read anything like that.

Mick being Mick..I don't think he'd say either way

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

This was a long time ago, but I believe there were some opinions about "Following The River" being about the relationship...I don't have a clue though:

"Following The River"


There's something I should tell you
Why don't you sit there in that chair
You're looking good today
I love the way your comb's tucked in your hair

My cards are on the table, but the drinks have all run out
There's been some other lads in this room with me, we're really quite a crowd
It's hard to break it gently, but I really thought it through
I don't think there's much future left, for me and you, me and you

I've been following the river, til it joins hands with the sea.
I've been thinking of you so bad
Cause you always saw the best in me

You'll probably forget me, and I'll fade back in the bar
Just a face disappearing without trace, I'll be lost, I'll be lost

One day I'll hear some laughter in a out-of-town cafe
I'll be reaching for your number - I'll be calling out your name, calling out your name

I've been following that river, gonna join hands with the sea
I've been thinking of ya all the time
Cause you always brought the best in me
I'll be following the river - oh my! Till it spills out in the sea

When I first think about ya, oh dear
Cause you always brought the best in me (always brought the best in me)
I'll be following the river (yeah!)
Gonna join hands with the sea

Ah, if I can't have ya, I'll be dreaming all about ya
Cause you always brought the best in me
I'll be following the river, gonna join hands with the sea

I'll be thinking about ya, cause you always brought the best in me

maybe rain fall down or biggest mistake…..

When she heard Following The River, Ms. Scott thought it may be written about her and it really affected her. Supposedly it was not, but who knows??

Don was was interviewed about this . He said mick told him it was not about Lwren and he himself initially thought it was about mick giving up on the stones - which mick also denied and said to Don it was "something else" it was not clear in the interview whether he told him what the "something else " was

I always wondered if it might be an ode to keith, relating to not writing songs together with him any more (In spite of the bits and pieces suggesting a woman, such as the comb in your hair etc.) but I admit its stretches credulity a bit !

Very nice article in NY Times

For L’Wren Scott, Her Identity Was by Design
By JACOB BERNSTEIN, MATTHEW SCHNEIER and GUY TREBAYMARCH 19, 2014

It was a crowded cocktail party at the Cafe Royal in London on a balmy February night. As hundreds of people mingled in the ornate, recently renovated space, one of the attendees, an editor who had gone to L’Wren Scott’s fall 2013 fashion show that day, stood in a corner making small talk with Bobbi Brown, the cosmetics entrepreneur, and John Demsey, the president of Estée Lauder.

Then, suddenly, out of the scrum of partygoers, Ms. Scott emerged, a striking, impossibly tall beauty, trailed by a wizened but elegantly dressed man who barely came up to her shoulder blades. “Have you met Mick?” Ms. Scott said to the editor, flashing a warm smile as she introduced him to Mick Jagger, leaving the two to chat amiably about the Rolling Stones’ recent appearance on “Saturday Night Live,” his daughter Georgia May’s budding modeling career and the unseasonably warm weather, as she melted back into the crowd to continue her hostess duties.

“Mick Jagger’s girlfriend”: That was how L’Wren Scott was often identified by the news media (no more so than in the days after her death on Monday) before those mentions eventually turned to her increasingly respected work as a fashion designer, one with an appeal for both actresses who wanted a dramatic turn on the red carpet and socialites who wanted to look sexy but not vulgar.

And while Ms. Scott certainly understood the public relations value of having a famous boyfriend (his attendance at her shows all but guaranteed her coverage outside the pages of WWD), she also wore that association lightly, shutting down anyone who tried to pry too closely into the nature of their relationship or those who seemed too eager to use her as a way to meet the rock star.

In a 2008 profile in New York magazine, Ms. Scott said, “I just want to be known for what I do, not who I know,” a theme she repeated last year in an interview with The Sunday Times of London: “I’m a fashion designer,” she said. “I don’t want to be defined as someone’s girlfriend.”

And, in fact, over the last few years, Ms. Scott attracted a following among retailers and fashion editors. “She was in every way her own best model,” said Hamish Bowles, the international editor at large of Vogue. “She had a very strong personal aesthetic and was creating clothes in her own image, and she was so attractive and confident and glamorous and assured — in fact, the most potent and seductive role model for her clients.”

But all of that came to an end with what the police are treating as a suicide, Ms. Scott, 49, having apparently strangled herself with a scarf that had been tied to the handle of a door in her downtown Manhattan apartment. It came amid reports that she was distressed over the financial state of her company, which published accounts said was more than $6 million in debt. Associates said that she had planned to announce this week that she was shutting her eight-year-old business.

In February, Ms. Scott abruptly canceled her fall 2014 fashion show, citing what were described as production issues with the collection. But while that cancellation, with almost no further explanation, began to fuel rumors that her business was in trouble, no one close to her seemed to know how serious those financial problems were or how depressed she might have been.

“I’m dumbfounded,” said the actress Sarah Jessica Parker, a good friend of the designer’s and a frequent client, adding that she didn’t believe it when she and a friend she was traveling with heard the news on Monday. “We assumed it wasn’t true,” she said. “That it couldn’t possibly be true. And I wish it weren’t.”

Cristina Ehrlich, a celebrity stylist whose clients (among them Penélope Cruz, Tina Fey and Julianna Margulies) frequently wore Ms. Scott’s designs, said her reaction was “just total shock and disbelief,” adding that the two had been texting on a fairly regular basis in recent months. “She was really the person who would light up the room. She wasn’t somebody who I would have ever said was a tortured artist or a tortured designer.”

Bruce Weber, the photographer, who has known Ms. Scott since she started out as a model in the 1980s, said he had last seen her in 2013, when nothing seemed amiss.

“It was in London,” he said. “I was at some dinner party, and she came over. She was with Mick. They looked really happy and friendly with each other. It seemed like he loved her a lot. They made a really nice couple. He was more open than I’d ever seen him. Also she didn’t let him get into that ‘I’m a rock star’ attitude.”

There were published reports on the day after Ms. Scott’s death, and plenty of blind items before then, that she and Mr. Jagger had become estranged, which were immediately denied by Mr. Jagger’s publicist. (On Tuesday, Mr. Jagger’s website carried a statement that said, in part, “I am still struggling to understand how my lover and best friend could end her life in this tragic way.”)

If there was trouble in that relationship, friends of Ms. Scott’s said they were unaware of it. But then, that would be typical of Ms. Scott’s personality, they said: funny, outgoing, but with a certain reserve.

“She was incredibly, incredibly private,” Ms. Ehrlich said. “I never sensed from her a darkness or an unhappiness. But then again, you never really know.”

Before L’Wren Scott (née Luann Bambrough, the adopted daughter of a Mormon couple in Utah) became an acclaimed designer, she was a model, one with a distinctive look — and a height that reached to 6 feet 3 inches — that caught the attention of designers like Thierry Mugler and photographers like Mr. Weber.

Mr. Weber remembered the first time she came to meet him at his studio. “I was working for Calvin Klein,” he said. “We were photographing all these girls in pantyhose, and she was taller than anybody in the studio and yet she seemed small. She didn’t act like a tall person. Tall people generally don’t act like they want to shrink themselves. She was like a baby giraffe, beautiful and sweet and really vulnerable.”

Soon after, Ms. Scott moved to Paris and Mr. Weber didn’t see her until she had become a stylist several years later. “I was working with her at Paul Morrissey’s house in Montauk, for Interview with Nicole Kidman,” he said. “And we had a great time, she was so easygoing and confident, really different than when I first met her. She made Nicole look beautiful. She had a real sensitivity about the people she worked with.”

As a stylist, Ms. Scott quickly gained the reputation as someone with a keen eye and a can-do attitude.

“She was focused and driven about her work,” said Mark McKenna, director of the Herb Ritts Foundation and the former photography assistant to Mr. Ritts, an early mentor to Ms. Scott. “When I say driven, I mean driven. She would prep for things weeks in advance. She came with her homework done.


Mr. McKenna recalled, with admiration, a Vanity Fair cover shoot of Matthew McConaughey that Ms. Scott styled in 1996, when the young actor was just beginning to emerge as a star. “The shoot revisited what it was like when Paul Newman was coming on the scene in the 1950s,” Mr. McKenna said. “Herb executed it, creating that feeling, bringing out that whole Texas country-boy thing. But L’Wren drove the concept. She also understood that, when it came time for the shoot to happen, she didn’t need to be the overbearing presence. She knew how to step back. She understood that need for discretion that is so important in Hollywood, where discretion equals confidence in you.”

In the 1990s, Ms. Scott had a brief marriage to Anthony Blake Brand, a property entrepreneur, that few of her later friends ever knew about and that was recalled as a slightly odd match by those who knew her early days in California.

“Our sons and daughters were marrying cute little sweet things, and suddenly Tony appeared with this creature,” recalled Dale Engelson Sessa, an author and the former owner of a commercial production company in Los Angeles who was close to the Brand family. “Somebody said she was a model. Somebody said she was a stylist. Somebody said she was helping people shop for clothes. Everyone paid attention because she was so exotic, though the family was disappointed at who he had chosen. There was no way they could get close to her. It was never going to be that warm, cozy relationship.”

Her look certainly created an indelible memory. “Even in those days, she dressed in a way that we all thought was, perhaps, funky,” Ms. Sessa said. “She wrapped herself in a lot of silk scarves. When I read about this horrible, horrible way she killed herself, that was the first thing I thought of, how she was always wrapped up in silk scarves.”

Marilyn Gauthier, Ms. Scott’s modeling agent and a friend for more than 20 years, said she was not surprised her friend remained stoic, whether it was about her romantic life or her financial situation.

“She was proud,” Ms. Gauthier said. “Maybe she told other people” about her financial problems, “but I’m sure she thought she was going to solve it herself. She didn’t want the rumor to spread that she was in trouble. But I don’t know. She never told me.”

Ikram Goldman, the influential Chicago retailer who has been a longtime supporter of Ms. Scott’s designs, said that she, too, was unaware that Ms. Scott might have been depressed. “We were emailing each other up to about a week and a half ago,” she said. “I was making introductions, people for her to meet. We were doing stuff.”

And as for any inkling that her business might in trouble? “Nothing,” Ms. Goldman said. “Nothing, nothing. She wasn’t that kind of person. Is someone that elegant going to go flailing their emotions on her sleeve? She’s going to hold on to it.”

Mr. Bowles recalled going to see Ms. Scott in her Kings Road studio in London last year for a look at what turned out to be her second-to-last collection. The studio, he said, “was covered in all her inspirational images, these wonderful turn-of-the-century photographs of geishas and Japanese woodcuts and incredible detailing of wisteria.”

He added: “She seemed her usual glamorous, droll, upbeat self. It’s fair to say that nothing might have suggested this turn of events. On the contrary, L’Wren always seemed so vivacious and fun and self-confident and glamorous and assured.”

A close friend who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation said she saw Ms. Scott about two weeks ago and said that the designer was “very depressed” about the state of the business, and that it was becoming clearer that she might have to shut it down.

“But,” this person added, “she could still do a lot of different things. You could be hired as a designer for some company. There’s always another way. It’s just so sad. It’s so unnecessary. She had a lot of friends that loved her, and it’s always sad when someone doesn’t get to see that.”

John Demsey, the Estée Lauder executive who was at that party at the Cafe Royal and is a longtime observer of the fashion world, suggested that many people confused the glamour of that world with the harsh reality of its business side.

“What’s the difference between her and Charles James?” he said, referring to the legendary 20th-century designer who is about to be celebrated at the Met. “The guy died penniless in the Chelsea Hotel. He didn’t kill himself, but the life of a designer or a creative person isn’t necessarily paved with gold, even if one is talented, which most everyone agrees she was.”

Stuart Emmrich contributed reporting.
[www.nytimes.com]

Thanks, proudmary. The more I read about L'Wren the sorrier I feel that she's gone. Such a pity.

A young friend of mine posted this on Facebook--I thought it restored the balance a bit:

I hadn't heard that she was dating Mick Jagger until after her so very untimely and tragic death, so it seemed odd to me how much they mention the two were together. I had heard of her gowns and work in the fashion world a long time ago, and I think it's a shame her dating life took over what we remember her. I wouldn't want to deny him recognition as a part of her life especially during this time, but I think headlines should read "L'Wren Scott, Red Carpet Designer" not "L'Wren Scott, Jagger's Girlfriend"

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drbryant
A post on a Rolling Stones fan forum in a condolence thread for Mick's girlfriend says that Mick betrayed the spirit of the sixties, treated Mick Taylor like shit and has a distasteful attitude towards women. This is followed by a statement basically saying that those expressing feelings of sorrow or grief in the thread are doing so out of some misguided need to feel like an "insider" or "close to the band". It seemed like an attempt to provoke and turn a condolence thread into a debate over those "views", but then, I might not be smart enough to understand it all.

That wasn't my intention, and I apologise if it came across that way. Likewise, the post of mine you're referring to was in response to something Dandie said earlier about the speculation thread (or, at least, that's what I assumed he was referring to). It wasn't meant to refer to the people posting in this thread, which has been very respectful and quite well judged, and I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

The things I said about Jagger are commonplaces on this board and have been for years. Still, in retrospect, I can see that it would have been better to leave it as 'I hold no candle for Mick Jagger, but...' or something. Again, apologies if it came across as provocative.

Thank you proudmary for the nytimes article. Very nice rememberence of L'Wren Scott. She seems to have been a very private, sensitive person who was well loved by everyone close to her. Such a sad ending, she must have been in a lot of pain.

Of course MJ is not going to reveal to Don Was or any producer what his lyrics are about. Maybe to Keith. Maybe to Charlie. That's about it. I'm guessing these guys are so guarded about who gets to see who they really are. Guy behind the boards, no matter how renowed, is guy behind the boards.

Take care Mick.
May the good Lord Shine A Light On You....

RIP L'Wren

And to Mick, you told us - "We Love You", well "We All Love You To"! Stay strong Pal...

From Elle Magazine:

Remembering L'Wren Scott

The tragic news that designer L'Wren Scott, had been found dead of an apparent suicide surely stunned everyone in the fashion industry. Like her clothes, which were often retro-inspired and at times, theatrical, she was both ethereal and playful. But like most women we admire, she was also whip smart and capable of being incredibly down-to-earth when the time called for it. Incredibly thoughtful about every design detail, her body-hugging clothes often pushed the boundaries of feminine opulence. The women who wore her clothes always commented on how perfectly they fit.

Though her privacy was of great importance to her, it seemed a priority to L'Wren to make sure that those around her felt comfortable and warmly embraced, as if her mantra was rooted in that Henry James belief that the three most important qualities a person could possess were: To be kind. To be kind. To be kind.

Those of us who had been lucky enough to be invited to her shows and dinner parties, always commented on her warmth, affability, and genuine graciousness with which she presented herself and her collections. Though she was not in any way frivolous, she appreciated the importance of a naughty gesture. While she could converse on the benefits of the latest health craze, there were always fries and a bottle of wine on the table and a bag of take-away cookies at coat check. And she loved a dirty joke. When it came to L'Wren, you came for the clothes, but always left with a renewed sense of calm and well-being.

She was especially adept at navigating the potentially awkward moment when, leaving her shows (which for many years were luncheons at Larry Gagosian's gallery in Chelsea), you thanked not only her but also her longtime boyfriend, Mick Jagger. What struck me most the first time I met him wasn't his iconic status but how smitten he was in L'Wren's presence. He, like the rest of us, basked in her glow.

[www.elle.com]