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NICOS
Too Much Blood is the only highlight on this album

Seriously? I mean if you like Too Much Blood, how is it that you don't like Undercover of the Night, or Pretty Beat Up or Tie You Up?

I can get not liking the album, but to like that song and not the rest is perplexing to me.

You just listed your top stones albums above, and put Tattoo You and Undercover above albums like Sticky and Exile ... and you question where this guy is coming from??? (although I do have to agree with one thing, as Too Much Blood is the only bad song on this album).

You need to reread my post, that isn't at all what I said...

Actually its exactly what you said:

"You've got your big four, Tattoo You, Some Girls, Between The Buttons, Aftermath, Black and Blue, Undercover."

Although I guess if I didn't scan over it too quickly I would have seen that you listed more than 4 and possibly figured it out.

Dear lord, you've reread it and you still don't know what 'your big four' means? I'm hereby revoking your fan club membership and placing you on citizen's arrest.

You'll be detained for questioning...oh you're in real trouble now my friend.

LeonidP, how is "your big four, Tattoo You, Some Girls, Between The Buttons, Aftermath, Black and Blue, Undercover" confused for not including Beggars, LIB, SF and EOMS?

He did not say "your big four" meaning Tattoo You, Some Girls, Between The Buttons, Aftermath, Black and Blue, Undercover" because, in case you can't count that, that's SIX albums. Nor did he list those 6 albums before the Big Four.

You must've eaten a funny cookie.

ummm... like I said, I scanned and did not count. Nonetheless it would have been his miscount, not mine, as it was his list.

Don't make your denseness my issue please. It would have been my 'miscount', had I miscounted anything...but I didn't, you did. Why you're trying to justify your miscalculation is mystifying. Let it go dude.

How would it be my miscount? It was your post.

Look...proving I'm dense over & over stopped being fun for me days ago.

Okay, I'll stop, proving you wrong was enough, no need for me to rub it in!

Your in dangerous territory when you quote someone, and change their post to endeavour making them look bad. I would suggest to you it's way simpler to just read before you decide to attack someone, so you're not left looking like a bit of a moron.

Unfortunately, now you've added deceitful to your list of attributes Leonid. Careful my friend.

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71Tele
The first album by the Rolling Stones where the majority of songs are sub-standard, plain and simple. Unfortunately it wasn't the last.

Got a point there. Up until then the albums were great in some way even the bleaker ones. I mean ER had great production, fabolus really, and one great song, some good and mostly mediocre but still somehow good due to the mix, the music. Undercover isn not an album. She was hot was a great song but thats it really.

<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

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DandelionPowderman
<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

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<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

The SG-generation seem to like Undercover as well...

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DandelionPowderman

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman
<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

The SG-generation seem to like Undercover as well...

Funny though that seems the first time that a lot of fans didn't show up in droves to buy the album. I wonder if the explanation is as simple as the lead single, which was huge in the past 3 albums, just wasn't as commercial?

While I love the album and especially Undercover of the Night, I'll admit I was surprised when I first heard it. Very different from what we'd heard before.

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DandelionPowderman
<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

The SG-generation seem to like Undercover as well...

Funny though that seems the first time that a lot of fans didn't show up in droves to buy the album. I wonder if the explanation is as simple as the lead single, which was huge in the past 3 albums, just wasn't as commercial?

While I love the album and especially Undercover of the Night, I'll admit I was surprised when I first heard it. Very different from what we'd heard before.

My only other reference at the time was Tattoo You, and when I got Undercover I wasn't disappointed. I loved them equally.

This might have to do with the phase I was in, though, in the beginning of my Stones-exploration

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DandelionPowderman

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman
<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

The SG-generation seem to like Undercover as well...

Funny though that seems the first time that a lot of fans didn't show up in droves to buy the album. I wonder if the explanation is as simple as the lead single, which was huge in the past 3 albums, just wasn't as commercial?

While I love the album and especially Undercover of the Night, I'll admit I was surprised when I first heard it. Very different from what we'd heard before.

My only other reference at the time was Tattoo You, and when I got Undercover I wasn't disappointed. I loved them equally.

This might have to do with the phase I was in, though, in the beginning of my Stones-exploration

Yeah I was very close to that but just slightly further along...I'd bought Emotional Rescue and gotten into Hot Rocks, More Hot Rocks and then Some Girls before Sucking In The 70s & Tattoo You.

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DandelionPowderman
<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

The SG-generation seem to like Undercover as well...

Funny though that seems the first time that a lot of fans didn't show up in droves to buy the album. I wonder if the explanation is as simple as the lead single, which was huge in the past 3 albums, just wasn't as commercial?

While I love the album and especially Undercover of the Night, I'll admit I was surprised when I first heard it. Very different from what we'd heard before.

My only other reference at the time was Tattoo You, and when I got Undercover I wasn't disappointed. I loved them equally.

This might have to do with the phase I was in, though, in the beginning of my Stones-exploration

I belong to the same group of fans as Dandie, and while I did recognize that UNDERCOVER was different (especially compared to TATTOO YOU), it could be that for us 'newbies' who were more used to the sounds of the day (or didn't know any better...), that the Stones sounded like that was rather natural. But I guess for the older fans the new sounds they tried there didn't sound so convincing. Generally I have noticed that the lovers of UNDERCOVER are us newbies then (hooked by it, TATTOO YOU or at least not before SOME GIRLS), and also both the older and younger fan generations seem to more critical towards it. Anyway, our generation is still rather big generation of fans, so we have quite a lot of volume, for example, here at IORR...

I might sound critical now but at the time it was a big album for me.. my first 'new' Rolling Stones studio album... It sounded marvellous!

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-28 17:50 by Doxa.

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<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

The SG-generation seem to like Undercover as well...

Funny though that seems the first time that a lot of fans didn't show up in droves to buy the album. I wonder if the explanation is as simple as the lead single, which was huge in the past 3 albums, just wasn't as commercial?

While I love the album and especially Undercover of the Night, I'll admit I was surprised when I first heard it. Very different from what we'd heard before.

My only other reference at the time was Tattoo You, and when I got Undercover I wasn't disappointed. I loved them equally.

This might have to do with the phase I was in, though, in the beginning of my Stones-exploration

I belong to the same group of fans as Dandie, and while I did recognize that UNDERCOVER was different (especially compared to TATTOO YOU), it could be that for us 'newbies' who were more used to the sounds of the day (or didn't know any better...), that the Stones sounded like that was rather natural. But I guess for the older fans the new sounds they tried there didn't sound so convincing. Generally I have noticed that the lovers of UNDERCOVER are us newbies then (hooked by it, TATTOO YOU or at least not before SOME GIRLS), and also both the older and younger fan generations seem to more critical towards it. Anyway, our generation is still rather big generation of fans, so we have quite a lot of volume, for example, here at IORR...

I might sound critical now but at the time it was a big album for me.. my first 'new' Rolling Stones studio album... It sounded marvellous!

- Doxa

I don't disagree with that. I think we were in full-fledged Rolling Stones 3.0 mode at that point with Ronnie and things were still good, if not great at least musically. Things would have been so MUCH different I think, if Mick and Keith's relationship wasn't completely unravelling by then.

The interesting direction they were heading into came to a screeching halt with Dirty Work. That album was sort of the Stones on 'life support', the body without the head.

By the time they regulated the heart beat again in 1989 Stones 4.0 launched (auto-pilot, Vegas Stones, whatever you want to call it) and we've sort of been with that ever since.

And to me it sounded shit. I belong to the fan generation that discovered dad's records and played them to pieces. That's why I hardly recognized the band in Undercover, it sounded too different. And that I think is the key. Miss you sounds like the Stones and it's a great song. Undercover sounds like anything by anyone. I dont think its horrible but it's pointless and hollow.

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Redhotcarpet
And to me it sounded shit. I belong to the fan generation that discovered dad's records and played them to pieces. That's why I hardly recognized the band in Undercover, it sounded too different. And that I think is the key. Miss you sounds like the Stones and it's a great song. Undercover sounds like anything by anyone. I dont think its horrible but it's pointless and hollow.

Are you comparing Miss You the song to Undercover Of The Night the song (as you just say Undercover, which may imply the album).

I'd completely disagree with you as I don't think Undercover Of The Night sounds like anything else, even the Stones, yet it is such a Stones song. It's an absolute classic IMHO.

Make no mistake, the mass of US rock radio stations going Top 40 prevented this album going to #1. Savor that last Atlantic LP, it still holds truer to the Stones sound than that poppy 80's sound on that Dirty Work.

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nick
Make no mistake, the mass of US rock radio stations going Top 40 prevented this album going to #1. Savor that last Atlantic LP, it still holds truer to the Stones sound than that poppy 80's sound on that Dirty Work.

Interesting perspective, I'd never consider that.

The "poppy" DW-sound (I'm ignoring the echo on Charlie's snare here) is not to be heard on:

One Hit
Fight
Harlem Shuffle
Hold Back
Too Rude
Dirty Work
Had It With You
Sleep Tonight

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DandelionPowderman
<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

The SG-generation seem to like Undercover as well...

Funny though that seems the first time that a lot of fans didn't show up in droves to buy the album. I wonder if the explanation is as simple as the lead single, which was huge in the past 3 albums, just wasn't as commercial?

While I love the album and especially Undercover of the Night, I'll admit I was surprised when I first heard it. Very different from what we'd heard before.

My only other reference at the time was Tattoo You, and when I got Undercover I wasn't disappointed. I loved them equally.

This might have to do with the phase I was in, though, in the beginning of my Stones-exploration

I belong to the same group of fans as Dandie, and while I did recognize that UNDERCOVER was different (especially compared to TATTOO YOU), it could be that for us 'newbies' who were more used to the sounds of the day (or didn't know any better...), that the Stones sounded like that was rather natural. But I guess for the older fans the new sounds they tried there didn't sound so convincing. Generally I have noticed that the lovers of UNDERCOVER are us newbies then (hooked by it, TATTOO YOU or at least not before SOME GIRLS), and also both the older and younger fan generations seem to more critical towards it. Anyway, our generation is still rather big generation of fans, so we have quite a lot of volume, for example, here at IORR...

I might sound critical now but at the time it was a big album for me.. my first 'new' Rolling Stones studio album... It sounded marvellous!

- Doxa

In all haste during work:

I am representative of almost none, probably, as always. I belong to the group of fans that started to be hooked during the band's R&B period.

I am one that put UNDERCOVER so high that I - not always, not even most times, but sometimes - during some listenings rank it higher than EXILE ON MAIN STREET.

And I consider three out of four of the following studio albums, starting with SOME GIRLS, as the band's fourth peak (two peaks during Brian Jones' years). But I dislike what they made out of TATTOO YOU more than most. Let the studio version, put up against the most adequate early outtake of "Hang Fire", be one aspect of what I dislike about that album.

The edit: Three words had fallen out, but are entered with this: "out of four"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-29 14:00 by Witness.

Interesting view, Witness!

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DandelionPowderman
<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

The SG-generation seem to like Undercover as well...

Funny though that seems the first time that a lot of fans didn't show up in droves to buy the album. I wonder if the explanation is as simple as the lead single, which was huge in the past 3 albums, just wasn't as commercial?

While I love the album and especially Undercover of the Night, I'll admit I was surprised when I first heard it. Very different from what we'd heard before.

My only other reference at the time was Tattoo You, and when I got Undercover I wasn't disappointed. I loved them equally.

This might have to do with the phase I was in, though, in the beginning of my Stones-exploration

I belong to the same group of fans as Dandie, and while I did recognize that UNDERCOVER was different (especially compared to TATTOO YOU), it could be that for us 'newbies' who were more used to the sounds of the day (or didn't know any better...), that the Stones sounded like that was rather natural. But I guess for the older fans the new sounds they tried there didn't sound so convincing. Generally I have noticed that the lovers of UNDERCOVER are us newbies then (hooked by it, TATTOO YOU or at least not before SOME GIRLS), and also both the older and younger fan generations seem to more critical towards it. Anyway, our generation is still rather big generation of fans, so we have quite a lot of volume, for example, here at IORR...

I might sound critical now but at the time it was a big album for me.. my first 'new' Rolling Stones studio album... It sounded marvellous!

- Doxa

In all haste during work:

I am representative of almost none, probably, as always. I belong to the group of fans that started to be hooked during the band's R&B period.

I am one that put UNDERCOVER so high that I - not always, not even most times, but sometimes - during some listenings rank it higher than EXILE ON MAIN STREET.

And I consider three out of four of the following studio albums, starting with SOME GIRLS, as the band's fourth peak (two peaks during Brian Jones' years). But I dislike what they made out of TATTOO YOU more than most. Let the studio version, put up against the most adequate early outtake of "Hang Fire", be one aspect of what I dislike about that album.

The edit: Three words had fallen out, but are entered with this: "out of four"

I said something similar a couple of years back....... [www.iorr.org] ........Exile grown up....

Also, Keith said "Mick really surpassed himself with the lyrics on that one".........nitty gritty......

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DandelionPowderman
<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

The SG-generation seem to like Undercover as well...

Funny though that seems the first time that a lot of fans didn't show up in droves to buy the album. I wonder if the explanation is as simple as the lead single, which was huge in the past 3 albums, just wasn't as commercial?

While I love the album and especially Undercover of the Night, I'll admit I was surprised when I first heard it. Very different from what we'd heard before.

My only other reference at the time was Tattoo You, and when I got Undercover I wasn't disappointed. I loved them equally.

This might have to do with the phase I was in, though, in the beginning of my Stones-exploration

I belong to the same group of fans as Dandie, and while I did recognize that UNDERCOVER was different (especially compared to TATTOO YOU), it could be that for us 'newbies' who were more used to the sounds of the day (or didn't know any better...), that the Stones sounded like that was rather natural. But I guess for the older fans the new sounds they tried there didn't sound so convincing. Generally I have noticed that the lovers of UNDERCOVER are us newbies then (hooked by it, TATTOO YOU or at least not before SOME GIRLS), and also both the older and younger fan generations seem to more critical towards it. Anyway, our generation is still rather big generation of fans, so we have quite a lot of volume, for example, here at IORR...

I might sound critical now but at the time it was a big album for me.. my first 'new' Rolling Stones studio album... It sounded marvellous!

- Doxa

In all haste during work:

I am representative of almost none, probably, as always. I belong to the group of fans that started to be hooked during the band's R&B period.

I am one that put UNDERCOVER so high that I - not always, not even most times, but sometimes - during some listenings rank it higher than EXILE ON MAIN STREET.

And I consider three out of four of the following studio albums, starting with SOME GIRLS, as the band's fourth peak (two peaks during Brian Jones' years). But I dislike what they made out of TATTOO YOU more than most. Let the studio version, put up against the most adequate early outtake of "Hang Fire", be one aspect of what I dislike about that album.

The edit: Three words had fallen out, but are entered with this: "out of four"

I'm with you on the three out of four being a peak, but if you're saying that ER is one of the three, instead of Tattoo You, you've lost me. I gave that a listen today to refresh my memory, and that's a wasteland of sadness, a little above DW. I like the bouncy, dance kind of stuff they did like Dance and ER, but after She's So Cold, the rest is unmemorable nothingness. Which is hard to believe, knowing the archives, and coming off of SG.

<a wasteland of sadness, a little above DW>

Really? In addition to Dance, ER and She's So Cold there are tracks like this one:

Best blues track since 1972:




A VERY nice Keith ballad:




This rocker:




A classic punk rocker:




A very good, but uneven album, imo.

Yes, that is what I am saying.

I do like Dance, I am fond of "Indian Girl", and I am delighted by the songs with more or less negative feelings on the B-side of the album (the vinyl version). The reggae infused songs also give me joy. There are a couple of greater songs on SOME GIRLS, but all in all I as often as not choose EMOTIONAL RESCUE before SOME GIRLS.

In fact, I don't find the album uneven either. But varied I think it is.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-29 16:47 by Witness.

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Witness
Yes, that is what I am saying.

I do like Dance, I am fond of "Indian Girl", and I am delighted by the songs with more or less negative feelings on the B-side of the album (the vinyl version). The reggae infused songs also give me joy. There are a couple of greater songs on SOME GIRLS, but all in all I as often as not choose EMOTIONAL RESCUE before SOME GIRLS.

In fact, I don't find the album uneven either. But varied I think it is.

Indian Girl is interesting musically, if Mick would have stayed silent I might enjoy it.

On the other hand, where some possibly might speak about his mannerisms, to me as a receiver Mick's voice and way of singing contribute vitally to the feel and the flavour of the song.

Okay, let's face it, a small but vocal minority hates Miss You, Indian Girl, and Blinded By Love, all songs that I love and think are top notch for various reasons. Undercover and Dirty Work are among the bottom of their albums, with Emotional Rescue somewhere in the middle.

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman

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DandelionPowderman
<She was hot was a great song but thats it really>

That's hilarious!

If there is a great song on the album, it sure is the title track - although I like SWH very much as well.

With this album it seems fans are very divided.

While you'll get a few people waving the flag on Dirty Work, they are very few. For Undercover you have a very large number of lovers and haters. I don't know if whether you did a poll you'd find it 50/50 but it seems close to that.

I wonder why that is?

The SG-generation seem to like Undercover as well...

Funny though that seems the first time that a lot of fans didn't show up in droves to buy the album. I wonder if the explanation is as simple as the lead single, which was huge in the past 3 albums, just wasn't as commercial?

While I love the album and especially Undercover of the Night, I'll admit I was surprised when I first heard it. Very different from what we'd heard before.

My only other reference at the time was Tattoo You, and when I got Undercover I wasn't disappointed. I loved them equally.

This might have to do with the phase I was in, though, in the beginning of my Stones-exploration

I belong to the same group of fans as Dandie, and while I did recognize that UNDERCOVER was different (especially compared to TATTOO YOU), it could be that for us 'newbies' who were more used to the sounds of the day (or didn't know any better...), that the Stones sounded like that was rather natural. But I guess for the older fans the new sounds they tried there didn't sound so convincing. Generally I have noticed that the lovers of UNDERCOVER are us newbies then (hooked by it, TATTOO YOU or at least not before SOME GIRLS), and also both the older and younger fan generations seem to more critical towards it. Anyway, our generation is still rather big generation of fans, so we have quite a lot of volume, for example, here at IORR...

I might sound critical now but at the time it was a big album for me.. my first 'new' Rolling Stones studio album... It sounded marvellous!

- Doxa

It was my first 'new' Stones album too (actually, before I heard any of their other stuff properly) and I played the hell out of it!

I can see where a new generation, unfamiliar with the early Stones might like Undercover. I came on board the Stones train in a big way around the time of Let It Bleed, which was my first Stones album. I'd been aware of them, obviously, as an AM radio singles band. The Beatles overshadowed most other groups to me. I listened to Hendrix, Doors and CCR albums before I ever listened to a Stones album.

Once I heard Ya Yas, and I was totally sold on the Stones, I was lent their back catalogue of LPs from the 1st album on by a friend. It took me a while to get into the 'old' Rolling Stones albums. The earliest ones had an unappealing sound to them, not the performance, but that actual recording of it. It sounded thin and not as professional as early Beatles or Beach Boys. In time I learned to love the early Stones, and now it holds a special place, as if it's an entirely different band.

It's said that the last tour brought a new generation of fans to the Stones because of playing such venues as Glastonbury and Hyde Park. If the Stones make a new album soon, the younger fans might pick it up and love it, while us old codgers will probably poo-poo it. It's hard to imagine a new fan having 50 years of history to pick through with fresh ears.

I like Emotional Rescue, and it has sounded better to me over the years. Undercover, not so much.

i think albums should be judged as you saw them at the time.
I am guessing some fans would have initially thought this album was average...with one or 2 decent songs.

After playing the great albums to death, you start to listen to the ones you neglected again...
this was a neglected album for me...neglected for a reason !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-30 10:20 by Eleanor Rigby.

<I am guessing that fans would have initially thought this album was average...with one or 2 decent songs.>

Not for me, I liked the whole album at the time. And I thought Undercover Of The Night, She Was Hot and Pretty Beat Up were fantastic. I still do.

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DandelionPowderman
<I am guessing that fans would have initially thought this album was average...with one or 2 decent songs.>

Not for me, I liked the whole album at the time. And I thought Undercover Of The Night, She Was Hot and Pretty Beat Up were fantastic. I still do.

sorry..I should have expected a reply like this.
i should i have some fans...