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Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: svt22 ()
Date: September 23, 2013 14:34

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DandelionPowderman
Quote
svt22
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DandelionPowderman
Thanks, Neddie thumbs up

Did you doubt my statement ?

No, but you never said whether he was on for the entire show or not smiling smiley

LOl !

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Date: September 23, 2013 14:46

When I went to concerts at the age of 10, 11 or 12 I can't even remember who the support act was - or if there was one. I must be getting old... drinking smiley

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: svt22 ()
Date: September 23, 2013 15:34

Quote
DandelionPowderman
When I went to concerts at the age of 10, 11 or 12 I can't even remember who the support act was - or if there was one. I must be getting old... drinking smiley

I did remember it though, but seemingly you and Kleer are getting old, others weren't even born yet. smiling smiley. Fair enough moving on then.


Coming back to your statement "Taylor was lucky to join the Stones":

Even Taylor himself admitted "there's always a bit of luck involved, you got to have the looks, and of course you have to be a great player, otherwise you wouldn't stand a chance becoming a Stones guitarist". And although he wasn't among the big three, for what it's worth, all those big guys knew Taylor already and loved his playing with John Mayall. He did represent the school of white blues/rock boys in a very brilliant way.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Date: September 23, 2013 15:51

He sure did. No doubt about it. I really don't think anybody disputes that.

But putting the importance of his contributions up there with Clapton, Page and Beck is a bit of a stretch, imo.

Of course he's just as important as those guitarists for RS fans, but that's it.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: September 23, 2013 15:54

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His Majesty
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kleermaker


Call it what you want, it's not important. It's all jealousy.

There's nothing to be jealous about.
winking smiley

Well, admiration then. smiling smiley

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: NeddieFlanders ()
Date: September 23, 2013 15:56

There's also a couple of (audience-)tracks from Gothenburg Oct. 6 in circulation (without Mick Taylor) and the encore from Essen Oct. 10 (with Mick Taylor). So the theory that he only played in Essen for the sake of the live album (and a couple of shows afterwards) seems to be right.

N




>There's three bootlegs of Preston opening for the Stones that I am aware of: an audience recording of Vienna (without Taylor), >the full Essen show in rough soundboard (later released as the expanded live album), and a recording of what was said >Rotterdam, but in fact was a 6th generation of his original live album.

>I would love to hear the three audience tapes of Preston opening in Rotterdam -never heard of their existance.

>Mathijs

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 23, 2013 16:01

Quote
svt22
He did represent the school of white blues/rock boys in a very brilliant way.

Taylor is part of the more boring side of the British blues boom, the very thing the stones had up to that time managed to avoid, but then they/he went and brought that in to the stones. ugh.

Lucky for all involved that Mick and Keith were still knocking out some great songs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-23 16:04 by His Majesty.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 23, 2013 16:02

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kleermaker
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
kleermaker


Call it what you want, it's not important. It's all jealousy.

There's nothing to be jealous about.
winking smiley

Well, admiration then. smiling smiley

Nope.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: svt22 ()
Date: September 23, 2013 16:06

Quote
DandelionPowderman
He sure did. No doubt about it. I really don't think anybody disputes that.

But putting the importance of his contributions up there with Clapton, Page and Beck is a bit of a stretch, imo.

Of course he's just as important as those guitarists for RS fans, but that's it.

Yes, most people remember him as a Stone. Ive heard him playing great things after that too.. he's not for the bigger audience indeed.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: September 23, 2013 16:08

Quote
NeddieFlanders
>Taylor didn't play with Preston in Rotterdam, 1973. Just reverse everything >Kleermaker quotes and you'll always get the right answer. Easy.

There's audience recordings from Preston's three Rotterdam-sets with a clearly audible Mick Taylor on one of the shows (probably Oct. 13) and an absent Taylor on the other two (probably Oct. 14.).

N

I was at the Oct. 13 show, but I'm not absolutely sure Taylor was there with Billy, as I've said before (so mr. Vocalion is talking nonsense). But maybe I'll get some proof, because someone has promised to send me something. But well, some people will always deny, even if they could use a time machine to go back to those glorious days.

Btw: Mozart wasn't an innovator either, but is that so important? He didn't influence any composer very much, but he inspired them, just like Taylor did to many guitarists. You only have to take a look at YouTube and the Taylor guitar lessons vids. And even if they didn't inspire anyone, it's still a big pleasure for many people to listen to them in our time. YouTube witnesses that too.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Date: September 23, 2013 16:09

Quote
svt22
Quote
DandelionPowderman
He sure did. No doubt about it. I really don't think anybody disputes that.

But putting the importance of his contributions up there with Clapton, Page and Beck is a bit of a stretch, imo.

Of course he's just as important as those guitarists for RS fans, but that's it.

Yes, most people remember him as a Stone. Ive heard him playing great things after that too.. he's not for the bigger audience indeed.

I've seen him live three times as a solo artist. Unfortunately, that wasn't in his prime. One show was very good, though.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: September 23, 2013 16:17

PS: Taylor is constantly called a blues guitarist, but he's way more than that, playing brilliantly many musical styles. He proofs that with the Stones, with Billy P, with Bob D, with Carla Olson, to name a few.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Date: September 23, 2013 16:23

Quote
kleermaker
PS: Taylor is constantly called a blues guitarist, but he's way more than that, playing brilliantly many musical styles. He proofs that with the Stones, with Billy P, with Bob D, with Carla Olson, to name a few.

The blues is always the foundation for what he plays, kleerie.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: straycatblues73 ()
Date: September 23, 2013 16:26

Quote
Mathijs
It's quite absurd actually, that one needs to explain the differene between the big 3 and Taylor...

The big three had a changing impact on music -pop/rock/hardrock music changed due to their body of work.

Taylor never had that. He was, as Peter Green, a fantastic melodic player, but neither one didn't change a thing. They listened to the orginal blues greats, and basically repeated what they heard, with a better technique. Green had the best vibrato of them all, but did he change the face of music? I don't think so. Taylor was fantastic in 1972 and 1973, but did he inspire thousands of young people to pick up the guitar? I don't think so.

Mathijs


just me then sad smiley

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 23, 2013 16:29

Quote
kleermaker
PS: Taylor is constantly called a blues guitarist, but he's way more than that, playing brilliantly many musical styles. He proofs that with the Stones, with Billy P, with Bob D, with Carla Olson, to name a few.

Not really.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: Bellajane ()
Date: September 23, 2013 16:32

Quote
kleermaker
PS: Taylor is constantly called a blues guitarist, but he's way more than that, playing brilliantly many musical styles. He proofs that with the Stones, with Billy P, with Bob D, with Carla Olson, to name a few.

Taylor's been called a genius; a virtuoso and not just by his fans. I think he could have been far more influential,etc., etc., if it weren't for the drugs. He basically threw himself under the bus with his personal problems and habits which is a tragedy really. He knows that. We know that.

I don't know why so many people try to discredit him, though. Just to get a rise out of Taylor(ites)? Fair enough if he isn't someone's favorite artist, but why rain on his parade? I don't understand it.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: svt22 ()
Date: September 23, 2013 16:34

Quote
kleermaker
PS: Taylor is constantly called a blues guitarist, but he's way more than that, playing brilliantly many musical styles. He proofs that with the Stones, with Billy P, with Bob D, with Carla Olson, to name a few.

Right you are; he was influenced by fusion players - he loves McLaughlin's and Jeff Beck's playing, never made a breakthrough in that style though.

I think I made a terrible blunder by calling you "getting old" winking smiley

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Date: September 23, 2013 16:38

It's called sobriety, not discrediting smiling smiley

He was a great guitarist, but when fans claim he was just as important as Clapton, Beck or Page - that goes mainly for RS fans.

Clapton was a super-hero three years prior to Taylor joining the Stones. Page played on just about all the records in Britain in the early/mid-60s, before making history with Zep. Beck broke new ground musically, although I personally don't like his style that much.

This has nothing to do with liking Taylor's playing or not.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: September 23, 2013 17:18

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
kleermaker
PS: Taylor is constantly called a blues guitarist, but he's way more than that, playing brilliantly many musical styles. He proofs that with the Stones, with Billy P, with Bob D, with Carla Olson, to name a few.

The blues is always the foundation for what he plays, kleerie.

But this doesn't sound that bluesy to my ears (but who am I?):




Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: StonesCat ()
Date: September 23, 2013 17:34

Quote
Bellajane
Quote
kleermaker
PS: Taylor is constantly called a blues guitarist, but he's way more than that, playing brilliantly many musical styles. He proofs that with the Stones, with Billy P, with Bob D, with Carla Olson, to name a few.

Taylor's been called a genius; a virtuoso and not just by his fans. I think he could have been far more influential,etc., etc., if it weren't for the drugs. He basically threw himself under the bus with his personal problems and habits which is a tragedy really. He knows that. We know that.

I don't know why so many people try to discredit him, though. Just to get a rise out of Taylor(ites)? Fair enough if he isn't someone's favorite artist, but why rain on his parade? I don't understand it.

It's not a whole lot of people, mainly a party of one or two. Trashing Taylor's period somehow props up Jones' time, I guess.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: Bellajane ()
Date: September 23, 2013 17:39

All I've heard and read is that Taylor's Era with the Stones is considered their Golden Era...and rightly so...although I do love most of the music with Brian Jones. The early years..until Taylor's departure are my favorite, anyway.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: September 23, 2013 18:36

Quote
Bellajane
All I've heard and read is that Taylor's Era with the Stones is considered their Golden Era...and rightly so...although I do love most of the music with Brian Jones. The early years..until Taylor's departure are my favorite, anyway.

Everything before the stadium stage!

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: September 23, 2013 21:46

Quote
Mathijs
I've asked around a bit, and this is what I have confirmed so far: Preston opened ALL shows, in fact he was the main support act, not Kracker. Which shows Kracker exactly did is unsure to me, but they did not open all shows.

Taylor is confirmed to have played with Preston on two shows: one Essen show, and the last show of the tour, Berlin. Taylor is confirmed NOT to have played with preston on the opening Vienna show, all German shows (except the one Essen and Berlin shows of course), the Belgium shows, the three Rotterdam shows, and all UK shows.

I do not know about the Scandinavian shows. But, it appears that the reports by John Carr etc. are true: Taylor only played with Preston for the recording of the live album in Essen, and probably decided to jam with them again on the last show of the tour.

Mathijs

So, we got more info now: the audience recordings of Essen, Gothenburg and Rotterdam. So far we have confirmed:

Vienna: no Taylor (tape confirmation)
UK shows: no Taylor (fan reports and press)
Berlin: Taylor (two press reports)
Essen, 10-10-1973: Taylor is playing with Preston
Gothenburg 6-10-73: no Taylor (tape)
Rotterdam 13-10-73: Taylor is playing (fantastically I might say…) (tape)
Rotterdam 14-10-73 1st: no Taylor (in fact Preston is now playing all Taylor leads, like on Let it Bleed) (tape)
Rotterdam 14-10-73 1st: no Taylor (tape)

So it does appear Taylor was asked to do the show for the live album, and then joined whenever he feld like it, but probably not on days with two Stones shows.

Mathijs

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: Winston1111 ()
Date: September 23, 2013 22:38

I have been collecting Billy's recordings since July 1973, just as I was turning 12. I'm 52 now and still chasing down rarities that relate to his career. I wanted to mention that there is a GREAT bootleg out there entitled "Billy Preston - In Central Park, New York City 1973" that features Mick Taylor on guitar. He sounds great and this performance sounds as though it was much better rehearsed than the material on Billy's "Live European Tour" album.
I also picked up a 10 and 1/2 inch, 7 and 1/2 IPS master reel tape of Billy's performance at the Rainbow Theater in 1973 that features not only Mick Taylor on guitar, but Mick Jagger also appears on this recording singing "Shine A Light" and "Will The Circle Be Unbroken" (with Billy). I have yet to do anything with this tape, although I do plan to transfer it to a more commonly used format (CD, MP3, etc.) soon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-23 22:55 by Winston1111.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: September 23, 2013 22:49

Quote
Winston1111
I have been collecting Billy's recordings since July 1973, just as I was turning 12. I'm 52 now and still chasing down rarities that relate to his career. I wanted to mention that there is a GREAT bootleg out there entitled "Billy Preston - In Central Park, New York City 1973" that features Mick Taylor on guitar. He sounds great and this performance sounds as though it was much better rehearsed than the material on Billy's "Live European Tour" album.
I also picked up a 10 and 1/2 inch, 7 and 1/2 IPS master reel tape of Billy's performance at the Rainbow Theater in 1973 that features not only Mick Taylor on guitar, but Mick Jagger also appears on this recording singing "Will The Circle Be Unbroken" with Billy. I have yet to do anything with this tape, although I do plan to transfer it to a more commonly used format (CD, MP3, etc.) soon.

This is fantastic info! I have never heard of Preston's Central Park gig, that's really new to me...It would be great to hear that!

Concerning the Rainbow theater: there's not much that is known about it, it remains on of the last 'dark holes' in Stones history. There's one or two pics of Jagger that are confusing, as he looks like the 1973 Jagger but with much longer hair, as I recall, and these where said to be from the Rainbow gig. As far as I know, the recording is not circulating on bootleg. I have never heard it.

It would be great if you transfer the tape to FLAC or so, and sare it here!

Best
Mathijs

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: Winston1111 ()
Date: September 23, 2013 23:11

I also modified my original post a moment ago and made mention that Mick also sings "Shine A Light" on the master tape from Billy's Rainbow show.

The Central Park gig featured Billy on Hammond B3 organ exclusively and is a superb performance. And the audio quality is also a superb as the master was a soundboard from WCBS radio studios in New York who had broadcast the show.

I have just joined this list today, and am backlogged terribly with regard to projects of this nature. And I do not possess the means to transfer the master reel to a friendlier format. I will have to have that transfer made by someone else who has the necessary equipment. But I will get it transferred. Eventually. I promise.

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: muenke ()
Date: September 23, 2013 23:20

Quote
Winston1111
I also modified my original post a moment ago and made mention that Mick also sings "Shine A Light" on the master tape from Billy's Rainbow show.

The Central Park gig featured Billy on Hammond B3 organ exclusively and is a superb performance. And the audio quality is also a superb as the master was a soundboard from WCBS radio studios in New York who had broadcast the show.

I have just joined this list today, and am backlogged terribly with regard to projects of this nature. And I do not possess the means to transfer the master reel to a friendlier format. I will have to have that transfer made by someone else who has the necessary equipment. But I will get it transferred. Eventually. I promise.

Welcome on board, Winston! This is Great News ....

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: September 23, 2013 23:24

Wow, that would be amazing, Winston! Do share it if you get the time. There's a big community here that would enjoy it immensely. smileys with beer

Mick Jagger + Mick Taylor doing Shine A Light in 1973 would be wicked to hear even if they happened to sound sloppy.

Also, if you have any pointers as to where one can find that Central Park bootleg, don't hesitate to tell us. smiling smiley

Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: smokeydusky ()
Date: September 23, 2013 23:48

Quote
LieB
Also, if you have any pointers as to where one can find that Central Park bootleg, don't hesitate to tell us. smiling smiley




Re: Billy and Mick live in 1973
Posted by: smokeydusky ()
Date: September 23, 2013 23:49

Quote
Winston1111
I also picked up a 10 and 1/2 inch, 7 and 1/2 IPS master reel tape of Billy's performance at the Rainbow Theater in 1973 that features not only Mick Taylor on guitar, but Mick Jagger also appears on this recording singing "Shine A Light" and "Will The Circle Be Unbroken" (with Billy). I have yet to do anything with this tape, although I do plan to transfer it to a more commonly used format (CD, MP3, etc.) soon.

Great news! Would love to hear it!

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