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andrewm

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DoomandGloom
Robbie needed to escape the hard drug and booze lifestyle The Band led, back then it was very, very hard to keep it together. You have to respect a man that left on a high note, alive.. Personally I place them as America's Beatles, the top of the top, with 3 great lead vocalists. Robertson was full of adventure often dipping into different styles of Americana, utilizing producers such as Allen Toussaint. They are all great characters as Patti stated. As far as who's the bad guy, Levon had a more contemporary view of song-writing while Robbie was schooled by Dylan and believed it's the musician's and singer's job to do something great and their contributions no matter how important do not make them writers. Levon was forever on the hustle, "Levon likes his money." is not a lie, Robbie could have been more open to later reunions as his mates had gone through their smaller shares.

Agree with almost everything you said here but how can they be America's Beatles when four fifths of them were Canadian? I'm quite proud of the fact that Robertson/Danko/Manuel and Hudson accounted for one of Canada's greatest contributions to rock 'n' roll. And that is not to take anything at all away from Levon. Robbie wrote about the States a lot, obviously, but I believe it was his outsiders' romanticized view, particularly of the South, that gave those songs a unique voice.And vocally, Danko sounded exactly like rural Ontario to my ears, whereas Manuel just sounded...otherworldly.

Canada is in North America, no?

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triceratops

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duke richardson
never liked hearing Robbie Robertson talk about 'we've been on the road sixteen years...'

well thanks for your sacrifice Robbie, for so long...

hard to even watch him during the last waltz, and I love the Band

Never liked him due to him screwing the others on song writing credits meaning residuals money coming in each month which Levon and Danko would have loved to have. The time I saw them live they played like brothers in arms and came off the same way. Switching intruments etc right after Big Pink came out. But this is not how the wealth sorted out so screw him

dude calm down. levon didn't understand how writing credits worked. robertson wrote the songs period. once the band started working on them and arranging them sometimes the other members would change a few words or what not. that doesn't warrant a writing credit but levon thought it did. if you perform a piece by bach but change it up a bit are you now the songwriter?

levon and the other band members had their chance to prove robertson was a liar when the reformed the band and released 3 new studio albums. guess what. most of those 3 albums are cover tunes. as a matter of fact most of levons solo albums are primarly covers tunes. if these guys were really writing those songs they could have come up with more original material on their own. robertson hasn't been prolific but at least his solo albums are original material and you can tell lyrically its the same guy who wrote the bands stuff.

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keefriffhard4life

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triceratops
Never liked him due to him screwing the others on song writing credits meaning residuals money coming in each month which Levon and Danko would have loved to have. ...

dude calm down. levon didn't understand how writing credits worked. robertson wrote the songs period. once the band started working on them and arranging them sometimes the other members would change a few words or what not. that doesn't warrant a writing credit but levon thought it did. if you perform a piece by bach but change it up a bit are you now the songwriter?

levon and the other band members had their chance to prove robertson was a liar when the reformed the band and released 3 new studio albums. guess what. most of those 3 albums are cover tunes. as a matter of fact most of levons solo albums are primarly covers tunes. if these guys were really writing those songs they could have come up with more original material on their own. robertson hasn't been prolific but at least his solo albums are original material and you can tell lyrically its the same guy who wrote the bands stuff.

This is exactly the same discussion as the one about Mick Taylor's, Brian Jones' and Ronnie Wood's lack of writing credits with the Stones. It's a matter of judgement if someone has contributed writing or merely "arranging" or playing a song. That said, I mostly agree with keefriffhard4life about the Band's songs, although I'm sure Richard Manuel and Levon Helm could have developed their songwriting further if Robbie hadn't been so prolific and so much in control, and if the others didn't do so many drugs.

I guess they had big problems at the time.
Danko is clearly on heroin in most of the interwiev scenes in the movie (look at the "Old time religion" bit). Manuel doesn't seem in good shape too.

And what about the "cocaine room" in the backstage of Winterland with the walls adorned with fake noses?



Maybe Robbie wasn't that wrong about the on the road lifestyle

some pictures from the jam with rocking ronnie

...x rated jam!!!



ROCKMAN

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LieB

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keefriffhard4life

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triceratops
Never liked him due to him screwing the others on song writing credits meaning residuals money coming in each month which Levon and Danko would have loved to have. ...

dude calm down. levon didn't understand how writing credits worked. robertson wrote the songs period. once the band started working on them and arranging them sometimes the other members would change a few words or what not. that doesn't warrant a writing credit but levon thought it did. if you perform a piece by bach but change it up a bit are you now the songwriter?

levon and the other band members had their chance to prove robertson was a liar when the reformed the band and released 3 new studio albums. guess what. most of those 3 albums are cover tunes. as a matter of fact most of levons solo albums are primarly covers tunes. if these guys were really writing those songs they could have come up with more original material on their own. robertson hasn't been prolific but at least his solo albums are original material and you can tell lyrically its the same guy who wrote the bands stuff.

This is exactly the same discussion as the one about Mick Taylor's, Brian Jones' and Ronnie Wood's lack of writing credits with the Stones. It's a matter of judgement if someone has contributed writing or merely "arranging" or playing a song. That said, I mostly agree with keefriffhard4life about the Band's songs, although I'm sure Richard Manuel and Levon Helm could have developed their songwriting further if Robbie hadn't been so prolific and so much in control, and if the others didn't do so many drugs.

the difference though is mick taylor and ronnie released solo material with sings they wrote. like i said even with robertson out of the picture the guys couldn't come up with tons of material

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keefriffhard4life

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LieB

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keefriffhard4life

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triceratops
Never liked him due to him screwing the others on song writing credits meaning residuals money coming in each month which Levon and Danko would have loved to have. ...

dude calm down. levon didn't understand how writing credits worked. robertson wrote the songs period. once the band started working on them and arranging them sometimes the other members would change a few words or what not. that doesn't warrant a writing credit but levon thought it did. if you perform a piece by bach but change it up a bit are you now the songwriter?

levon and the other band members had their chance to prove robertson was a liar when the reformed the band and released 3 new studio albums. guess what. most of those 3 albums are cover tunes. as a matter of fact most of levons solo albums are primarly covers tunes. if these guys were really writing those songs they could have come up with more original material on their own. robertson hasn't been prolific but at least his solo albums are original material and you can tell lyrically its the same guy who wrote the bands stuff.

This is exactly the same discussion as the one about Mick Taylor's, Brian Jones' and Ronnie Wood's lack of writing credits with the Stones. It's a matter of judgement if someone has contributed writing or merely "arranging" or playing a song. That said, I mostly agree with keefriffhard4life about the Band's songs, although I'm sure Richard Manuel and Levon Helm could have developed their songwriting further if Robbie hadn't been so prolific and so much in control, and if the others didn't do so many drugs.

the difference though is mick taylor and ronnie released solo material with sings they wrote. like i said even with robertson out of the picture the guys couldn't come up with tons of material

they didn't have Albert Grossman who pitted Robertson against them, in any dispute over writing credits..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-18 15:37 by duke richardson.

Except for Richard I knew them all at various post Band times. Robertson is very different from the rest of the group. Super laid back, a musical voyeur, he enjoyed listening to musicians interpret his songs so thoroughly that he'd ask for extra takes just so he can hear them play again. Later when I was around Levon I never dared to mention my respect for Robertson as it could stir some ugly stuff. Helm eventually made up his mind to move on so he soaked in accolades and made his bitter feelings known every chance he got. I believe there are two legitimate sides to the story but wouldn't take it as far as blaming Robbie for the deaths of Richard and Rick. Levon is no different from David Gilmour. Both impeccably consistent performers who have grudges, Both Waters and Robertson recognized the immense talents of their bandmates and found perfect ways to present them. The Stones have their own sagas as well, their sessions were more hodgepodge with various players coming through a revolving door, sometimes the guy with the best idea gets erased and the part played by another, pretty much in the Stones camp if you are being paid they own your ideas.... Nicky Hopkins knew what his job was and added his interpretations that may have not made him mega wealthy but secured his place as rock piano legend for all time.

are you saying Levon blamed Robbie for the deaths of Manuel and Danko?

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duke richardson
are you saying Levon blamed Robbie for the deaths of Manuel and Danko?

I'm pretty sure it's in his book that because Robbie kept them downtrodden Richard committed suicide and Danko burned out. In reality it was this destiny that Robertson feared for himself...

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DoomandGloom

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duke richardson
are you saying Levon blamed Robbie for the deaths of Manuel and Danko?

I'm pretty sure it's in his book that because Robbie kept them downtrodden Richard committed suicide and Danko burned out. In reality it was this destiny that Robertson feared for himself...

no one keeps you downtrodden unless you let them, but its clear from Levon's telling that Robbie Robertson extricated himself from the Band in selfish way

that's far from causing death indirectly..

Agree with you Duke!

robbie stinks as a musican and a person , also the least talented of the five Band members and also a big wimp .to be fair i will also say he was the BEST thief in The Band along with his brother in thievery albert grossman.

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duke richardson
never liked hearing Robbie Robertson talk about 'we've been on the road sixteen years...'

well thanks for your sacrifice Robbie, for so long...

hard to even watch him during the last waltz, and I love the Band

Whereas I'm quite moved by that every time. He does come over as the one who has simply had enough and wants out. The others don't seem to know what they want.

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TheGreek
robbie stinks as a musican and a person , also the least talented of the five Band members and also a big wimp .to be fair i will also say he was the BEST thief in The Band along with his brother in thievery albert grossman.

He's a good guitarist who played within his limits but can wail like he does with Clapton. He understood his limits and recognized the great talent surrounding him. Whatever the business side he was one of the greatest bandleaders.

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TheGreek
robbie stinks as a musican and a person , also the least talented of the five Band members and also a big wimp .to be fair i will also say he was the BEST thief in The Band along with his brother in thievery albert grossman.

what a joke. without robertson you would probably not know anyone else who was in the band because they would have never had the songs

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loog droog
As good as the music is, there's a degree of BS surrounding The Last Waltz.

Film critic Stanley Kaufman wrote about how strange it was to see such young men pretend to be old and talk about how tired and road weary they were.


SCTV did a parody of The Last Waltz called The Last Polka





The Last Waltz wasn't the last time they played together. The Band got together and played a few songs at the end of a Rick Danko solo show at the Roxy about a year before the film of The Last Waltz came out. After the film, there was this "final show" myth that had to be maintained.

SCTV also did a parody of Gimme Shelter in their final year called Gimme Jackie. Entertainment hack Jackie Rogers Jr. (Martin Short) holds a free concert with security provided by the Shriners who kick up trouble when concert goers mess with their tassles.

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JimmyPhelge
I guess they had big problems at the time.
Danko is clearly on heroin in most of the interwiev scenes in the movie (look at the "Old time religion" bit). Manuel doesn't seem in good shape too.

And what about the "cocaine room" in the backstage of Winterland with the walls adorned with fake noses?



Maybe Robbie wasn't that wrong about the on the road lifestyle

Apparently everybody were high on coke at the Fillmore, even the director Martin Scorsese. They had a seperate "coke room" and they even had to edit out a large coke booger hanging from Neil Young's nose post-production. Ronnie surely loved this classic concert and clash of wonderful musicians.

Personally I like Van Morrisons performance best, the biggest soul voice in music.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-19 10:17 by DiscoVolante.

I agree, Van's performance was amazing. That and Dylan's Baby Let Me Follow You Down are my favorite parts.

The performances are what make The Last Waltz memorable, IMO. I even enjoy The Hawks showboat song.

The finest film at capturing a band perform. Everyone wondered where are the next Beatles back in this day. This is the closest anyone ever came at being all that. Fellow musicians were among the first to grasp the magnitude of The Band.

The songwriting credits on Big Pink are pretty evenly split between Robertson and Manuel. After that, Manuel's contribution of songs goes downhill. Robertson's always claimed that he welcomed his contributions. Did any of the other Band members, besides Helm, ever talk about Robertson sabotaging the songwriting credits? In the interview below, Robertson does cover his rear end regarding the split. Despite all this, he is one of my favorite guitar players.

[www.youtube.com]

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tomk
The songwriting credits on Big Pink are pretty evenly split between Robertson and Manuel. After that, Manuel's contribution of songs goes downhill. Robertson's always claimed that he welcomed his contributions. Did any of the other Band members, besides Helm, ever talk about Robertson sabotaging the songwriting credits? In the interview below, Robertson does cover his rear end regarding the split. Despite all this, he is one of my favorite guitar players.

[www.youtube.com]

not that i know of. i think others say they felt they contributed to the development of songs but they also said yes robertson brought in the songs structure

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stewedandkeefed
[
SCTV also did a parody of Gimme Shelter in their final year called Gimme Jackie. Entertainment hack Jackie Rogers Jr. (Martin Short) holds a free concert with security provided by the Shriners who kick up trouble when concert goers mess with their tassles.

I love Gimme Jackie! Especially when Short breaks into "Bossa Nova Baby!"

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DoomandGloom
The finest film at capturing a band perform. Everyone wondered where are the next Beatles back in this day. This is the closest anyone ever came at being all that. Fellow musicians were among the first to grasp the magnitude of The Band.

The Band were even an influence on The Beatles, particularly George Harrison, who says in Anthology that prior to recording the Get Back sessions in January 1969, he had been hanging out with Bob Dylan and The Band in Woodstock and having a great time. Harrison has even said that The Band were better than The Beatles and his song All Things Must Pass he says was influenced by The Band and while recording it he imagined Levon Helm singing it.

Clapton has said that Music From Big Pink ultimately forged his decision to leave Cream.

Re the legendary Ed Grimsley "I'm dancing on air!"

Can anyone link me good documentarys about The Band?

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nickm8
Can anyone link me good documentarys about The Band?

Most of the docs available at first glance seem to be on Robbie Robertson, and others only seem to feature individual members.

The clips below are from 2001, with Robbie talking about his origins and influences, time with The Band, and going solo in the 80s.













There's a 1995 TV documentary (now on DVD) on Robbie Robertson called Going Home:



Details at: [www.imdb.com]

There's also a 1994 1-hour doc called Robbie Robertson: A Retrospective:

[theband.hiof.no]

This year a posthumous documentary on Levon Helm was released, titled Ain't In It For My Health. This link features an interview with the film's director, Jacob Hatley:

[movies.yahoo.com]

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Apparently everybody were high on coke at the Fillmore, even the director Martin Scorsese. They had a seperate "coke room" and they even had to edit out a large coke booger hanging from Neil Young's nose post-production.
[/quote]

I remember Scorsese saying that edit job cost like $50,000 in 1976 dollars, making Neil's coke-booger "the most expensive coke I ever bought!"