This is a very good one:

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Cristiano Radtke
This is a very good one:

I'm pretty sure this is the above.

[www.youtube.com]

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tomk

I'm pretty sure this is the above.

[www.youtube.com]

Yes, that's the one I was talking about.

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TheGreek
robbie stinks as a musican and a person , also the least talented of the five Band members and also a big wimp .to be fair i will also say he was the BEST thief in The Band along with his brother in thievery albert grossman.

Oh really? So the least talented musician wrote the most (and best) songs? How does that work, exactly?

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Gazza

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tomcasagranda
Robbie feels that The Band were on the road for 16 years: let's break it down.

Well, if we want to split hairs, a certain English act have just commemorated being 50 years as a band. The fact is that they all but ceased to exist between 1983 and 1989 but for a few months in 1985 (when relationships were at an all time low ebb), didnt play or record together at all for about five years after 2007 and routinely didnt work together for two or three years at a time in the 90s. Half of the shows in that 50 year career took place in their first five years as a band, and in the entire second half of that celebrated half century they've made four albums! :-)

I think Robbie's quote in The Last Waltz about quitting before 'the road' got to them was a subtle way of saying 'we've partied too much and one or two of these guys will probably croak if we keep going much longer'. A summary which he was hardly going to admit to on celluloid!

I think that's exactly it.

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stonesrule
Braincapers, I tend to think that if Bob said that, he was joking.
Neil and Bob were friends who could joke with each other. I remember a gathering at Neil's house where a group were playing word games. Someone came up with a word that Elton John. always super-competitive in games, didn't think much of.
"Who came up with that stupid word?" he demanded.

Master songwriter Dylan said casually, "That's MY word."

The image of Bob Dylan, Neil Diamond, and Elton John sitting around playing scrabble is priceless. Who else was there?

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tomk
The songwriting credits on Big Pink are pretty evenly split between Robertson and Manuel. After that, Manuel's contribution of songs goes downhill. Robertson's always claimed that he welcomed his contributions. Did any of the other Band members, besides Helm, ever talk about Robertson sabotaging the songwriting credits? In the interview below, Robertson does cover his rear end regarding the split. Despite all this, he is one of my favorite guitar players.

[www.youtube.com]

Levon has made his case about the Robertson rip-off in many words in a book (Great Divide?) I read. Robbie can say what he wants but I don't believe him

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duke richardson
are you saying Levon blamed Robbie for the deaths of Manuel and Danko?

Richard Manuel no
Rick Danko yes

At the time of Danko's death there were tons of comments (at a the Band website out of Norway) how Danko was in poor health but was forced to tour due to lack of income. While Robbie was kicking back (what has he done since The Band?) and could afford to Danko was forced to tour while really bloated and prime heart attack material.
All due to how Robbie grabbed the songwriting credits at a time the others were too stoned or strung out (heroin) to do much. Go blame them for being too drugged out I guess. Yes? No?

Levon talked extensively about the Robbie rip-off. Levon had to work a lot harder (in his older years) than he preferred due to his rightful share of song writing royalties going to Robbie. Levon greatly resented this and was quoted extensively on it.

The great Robbie rip-off did not kill Levon the way it did Rick Danko. Levon was smarter with his health.

As an aside---- Leonard Cohen would have been retired and doing zen meditation but his financial advisors stole 8 million from him while he was meditating in a zen monastery for 6 years. So he was forced to tour extensively the last few years. All will agree he has been doing a great job at it

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triceratops

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duke richardson
are you saying Levon blamed Robbie for the deaths of Manuel and Danko?

Richard Manuel no
Rick Danko yes

At the time of Danko's death there were tons of comments (at a the Band website out of Norway) how Danko was in poor health but was forced to tour due to lack of income. While Robbie was kicking back (what has he done since The Band?) and could afford to Danko was forced to tour while really bloated and prime heart attack material.
All due to how Robbie grabbed the songwriting credits at a time the others were too stoned or strung out (heroin) to do much. Go blame them for being too drugged out I guess. Yes? No?

Levon talked extensively about the Robbie rip-off. Levon had to work a lot harder (in his older years) than he preferred due to his rightful share of song writing royalties going to Robbie. Levon greatly resented this and was quoted extensively on it.

The great Robbie rip-off did not kill Levon the way it did Rick Danko. Levon was smarter with his health.

As an aside---- Leonard Cohen would have been retired and doing zen meditation but his financial advisors stole 8 million from him while he was meditating in a zen monastery for 6 years. So he was forced to tour extensively the last few years. All will agree he has been doing a great job at it

what is the proof robbie was ripping off the other members with writing credits? again there is more proof, the solo albums, the 3 post roberston Band albums, etc, that shows these guys were not cranking out songs like they want us to believe.

robertson has even stated a lot of his fortune came from all of the movie soundtrack work he has done. maybe you should look into that instead of saying what has he done since he left The Band. robertson has served as creative consultant or music supervisor or songwriter for close to 20 films since he left The Band and also released 5 solo albums, which are comprised on roughly 96% original songs written by robertson.

..what is the proof robbie was ripping off the other members with writing credits?

most damning but not actual proof is page 312, in the afterword, of Levon Helm's book 'This Wheel's On Fire'

The Band's ending is an sad tale. Blaming Robbie for these guy's passing is convoluted, If we want to look for a "fairy tale" rock and roll ending we need to look no further than The Stones who are riding off into the sunset in splendid fashion. Still fans will bitch at whatever they feel has been left unfulfilled forgetting we are dealing with simple flesh and blood trying their utmost to put on a respectable concert.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-19 18:53 by DoomandGloom.

The story I know in short is that Danko had a "mad" brother who was obsessed with Civil War and old southern history. He wrote much of the prose in the famous "kitchen" book that Robbie used for lyrics. No one wanted the brother to be involved in the business side and Robbie grabbed the credit. Collectively it could be said they were all thieves with Robbie ending up with most of the "take". The Band never wanted this known, that's why each member's story is full of contradictions.

Yeah, Robbie made Danko shoot heroin and Manuel hang himself and blow all their money-- after years of other self abuse. That is such BS.

Again I'll say I don't know what really happened -- none of us do -- and I'm sure there are shades of truth for all parties. But a pat slam of Robertson as a "rip-off" is cheap. There were writing credits given to other members btw. As time went on that changed -- as did the quality of their albums. But it would seem there were other "priorities" for Band members other than Robertson.

Helm was one of the great Rock era musicians and seemed like an interesting guy, but his bitterness over so many years seems off-putting to me. Again, though, what do I know? It seems there may have been some peace made at the very end -- I hope so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-19 19:04 by Wry Cooter.

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DoomandGloom
Robbie needed to escape the hard drug and booze lifestyle The Band led, back then it was very, very hard to keep it together. You have to respect a man that left on a high note, alive.. Personally I place them as America's Beatles, the top of the top, with 3 great lead vocalists. Robertson was full of adventure often dipping into different styles of Americana, utilizing producers such as Allen Toussaint. They are all great characters as Patti stated. As far as who's the bad guy, Levon had a more contemporary view of song-writing while Robbie was schooled by Dylan and believed it's the musician's and singer's job to do something great and their contributions no matter how important do not make them writers. Levon was forever on the hustle, "Levon likes his money." is not a lie, Robbie could have been more open to later reunions as his mates had gone through their smaller shares.

To make a comparison of The Band and The Beatles, is like comparing apples and oranges. The Band were the American Beatles? In terms of record sales? Type of songs?

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nightskyman

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DoomandGloom
Robbie needed to escape the hard drug and booze lifestyle The Band led, back then it was very, very hard to keep it together. You have to respect a man that left on a high note, alive.. Personally I place them as America's Beatles, the top of the top, with 3 great lead vocalists. Robertson was full of adventure often dipping into different styles of Americana, utilizing producers such as Allen Toussaint. They are all great characters as Patti stated. As far as who's the bad guy, Levon had a more contemporary view of song-writing while Robbie was schooled by Dylan and believed it's the musician's and singer's job to do something great and their contributions no matter how important do not make them writers. Levon was forever on the hustle, "Levon likes his money." is not a lie, Robbie could have been more open to later reunions as his mates had gone through their smaller shares.

To make a comparison of The Band and The Beatles, is like comparing apples and oranges. The Band were the American Beatles? In terms of record sales? Type of songs?

The Band's approach to making different genres of music their own was very similar to The Beatles. Multiple lead vocalists and a true cast of handsome movie ready characters also adds to the comparison. Above all the respect the received from other musicians is unprecedented, way above the Beatles themselves. The Last Waltz was the new "Hard Day's Night."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-19 19:16 by DoomandGloom.

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DoomandGloom

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nightskyman

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DoomandGloom
Robbie needed to escape the hard drug and booze lifestyle The Band led, back then it was very, very hard to keep it together. You have to respect a man that left on a high note, alive.. Personally I place them as America's Beatles, the top of the top, with 3 great lead vocalists. Robertson was full of adventure often dipping into different styles of Americana, utilizing producers such as Allen Toussaint. They are all great characters as Patti stated. As far as who's the bad guy, Levon had a more contemporary view of song-writing while Robbie was schooled by Dylan and believed it's the musician's and singer's job to do something great and their contributions no matter how important do not make them writers. Levon was forever on the hustle, "Levon likes his money." is not a lie, Robbie could have been more open to later reunions as his mates had gone through their smaller shares.

To make a comparison of The Band and The Beatles, is like comparing apples and oranges. The Band were the American Beatles? In terms of record sales? Type of songs?

The Band's approach to making different genres of music their own was very similar to The Beatles. Multiple lead vocalists and a true cast of handsome movie ready characters also adds to the comparison. Above all the respect the received from other musicians is unprecedented, way above the Beatles themselves. The Last Waltz was the new "Hard Day's Night."

I still disagree. But I see what you mean in general about The Band (I guess I'm taking it for granted all of music they made over the years).

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DoomandGloom

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nightskyman

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DoomandGloom
Robbie needed to escape the hard drug and booze lifestyle The Band led, back then it was very, very hard to keep it together. You have to respect a man that left on a high note, alive.. Personally I place them as America's Beatles, the top of the top, with 3 great lead vocalists. Robertson was full of adventure often dipping into different styles of Americana, utilizing producers such as Allen Toussaint. They are all great characters as Patti stated. As far as who's the bad guy, Levon had a more contemporary view of song-writing while Robbie was schooled by Dylan and believed it's the musician's and singer's job to do something great and their contributions no matter how important do not make them writers. Levon was forever on the hustle, "Levon likes his money." is not a lie, Robbie could have been more open to later reunions as his mates had gone through their smaller shares.

To make a comparison of The Band and The Beatles, is like comparing apples and oranges. The Band were the American Beatles? In terms of record sales? Type of songs?

The Band's approach to making different genres of music their own was very similar to The Beatles. Multiple lead vocalists and a true cast of handsome movie ready characters also adds to the comparison. Above all the respect the received from other musicians is unprecedented, way above the Beatles themselves. The Last Waltz was the new "Hard Day's Night."

Interesting comparison. However, I don't think the Band got more respect from other musicians than the Beatles when it comes to songwriting and singing.

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Wry Cooter
Yeah, Robbie made Danko shoot heroin and Manuel hang himself and blow all their money-- after years of other self abuse. That is such BS.

Again I'll say I don't know what really happened -- none of us do -- and I'm sure there are shades of truth for all parties. But a pat slam of Robertson as a "rip-off" is cheap. There were writing credits given to other members btw. As time went on that changed -- as did the quality of their albums. But it would seem there were other "priorities" for Band members other than Robertson.

Helm was one of the great Rock era musicians and seemed like an interesting guy, but his bitterness over so many years seems off-putting to me. Again, though, what do I know? It seems there may have been some peace made at the very end -- I hope so.

the peace you speak of at the end was robbie at the hospital with helm on his deathbed and out of it , and robbie making his peace and saying his goodbye while helm was fading away and not awake . had helm been awake and saw robbie he would be missing some teeth . really making peace i guess ?

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TheGreek

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Wry Cooter
Yeah, Robbie made Danko shoot heroin and Manuel hang himself and blow all their money-- after years of other self abuse. That is such BS.

Again I'll say I don't know what really happened -- none of us do -- and I'm sure there are shades of truth for all parties. But a pat slam of Robertson as a "rip-off" is cheap. There were writing credits given to other members btw. As time went on that changed -- as did the quality of their albums. But it would seem there were other "priorities" for Band members other than Robertson.

Helm was one of the great Rock era musicians and seemed like an interesting guy, but his bitterness over so many years seems off-putting to me. Again, though, what do I know? It seems there may have been some peace made at the very end -- I hope so.

the peace you speak of at the end was robbie at the hospital with helm on his deathbed and out of it , and robbie making his peace and saying his goodbye while helm was fading away and not awake . had helm been awake and saw robbie he would be missing some teeth . really making peace i guess ?

If you read my words I say things like "seems there may have been" and "I hope." I also say "what do I know?" I don't pretend to know or make blanket statements off the cuff to be taken as stark fact.

Odd here I know....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-19 20:40 by Wry Cooter.

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DandelionPowderman

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DoomandGloom

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nightskyman

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DoomandGloom
Robbie needed to escape the hard drug and booze lifestyle The Band led, back then it was very, very hard to keep it together. You have to respect a man that left on a high note, alive.. Personally I place them as America's Beatles, the top of the top, with 3 great lead vocalists. Robertson was full of adventure often dipping into different styles of Americana, utilizing producers such as Allen Toussaint. They are all great characters as Patti stated. As far as who's the bad guy, Levon had a more contemporary view of song-writing while Robbie was schooled by Dylan and believed it's the musician's and singer's job to do something great and their contributions no matter how important do not make them writers. Levon was forever on the hustle, "Levon likes his money." is not a lie, Robbie could have been more open to later reunions as his mates had gone through their smaller shares.

To make a comparison of The Band and The Beatles, is like comparing apples and oranges. The Band were the American Beatles? In terms of record sales? Type of songs?

The Band's approach to making different genres of music their own was very similar to The Beatles. Multiple lead vocalists and a true cast of handsome movie ready characters also adds to the comparison. Above all the respect the received from other musicians is unprecedented, way above the Beatles themselves. The Last Waltz was the new "Hard Day's Night."

Interesting comparison. However, I don't think the Band got more respect from other musicians than the Beatles when it comes to songwriting and singing.

Additionally, both groups were back up bands for other acts and cut their teeth in the seediest of clubs. They both retired on their own terms still close to prime form. In The Band's era no one band could dominate like The Beatles did, still the little group based in Woodstock created a legend in their town that still carries on strongly today. I recently visited Big Pink and it is as much of a shrine as Penny Lane. Regular people still live there, much as Abbey Road is still a studio Big Pink is still a home.

the band did not retire on there own terms . robbie retired the band .

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TheGreek
the band did not retire on there own terms . robbie retired the band .

The other three Beatles were always ready for a reunion... Lennon kept them in retirement.

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DoomandGloom

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TheGreek
the band did not retire on there own terms . robbie retired the band .

The other three Beatles were always ready for a reunion... Lennon kept them in retirement.

good point .

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TheGreek
the band did not retire on there own terms . robbie retired the band .

and funny they reformed in the 80's they asked robbie, the guy who stole all of their writing credits, if he had any interest at all in participating in any way. a little odd don't you think?

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Wry Cooter
If you read my words I say things like "seems there may have been" and "I hope." I also say "what do I know?" I don't pretend to know or make blanket statements off the cuff to be taken as stark fact.

Odd here I know....

Well said. More often than not, I wonder how the people we are talking about on this forum would feel if they could read everything some members here "know" about them.

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duke richardson
..what is the proof robbie was ripping off the other members with writing credits?

most damning but not actual proof is page 312, in the afterword, of Levon Helm's book 'This Wheel's On Fire'

what does it say? i know robbie has admitted helm changed an entire verse in "the night they drove old dixie down" but again it was also backed up that robbie came up with the song and the changes happened after the group was shown the song.

LieB, good point! I often think they would be appalled at what complete strangers are sure they KNOW about them.

It's one reason that numerous musicians and other famous people have given up ever reading about themselves online.

I remembered Ronnie writing something about this in his book so I went and looked it out.

"Los Angeles was where I made my Hollywood debut. Ringo Starr and I bumped into the director Martin Scorsese through Bill Graham and he invited us to come and watch us make The Last Waltz, which was about the Band's final concert. A lot of our mates were in it - Clapton, Dylan, Neil Young and Muddy Waters........

While Ringo and I were sitting there watching them shoot, from the audience, Bill Graham came up to us and said, "You're on." We said, 'We are?' And he told us, 'Marty says you are,' so we were bundled onstage and into the anchor, which meant the movie, too.

Ringo plays Ringo and I play Ronnie, and if you look fast you can spot us in the final scene."

I think I've bust a button on my trousers....

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LieB

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Wry Cooter
If you read my words I say things like "seems there may have been" and "I hope." I also say "what do I know?" I don't pretend to know or make blanket statements off the cuff to be taken as stark fact.

Odd here I know....

Well said. More often than not, I wonder how the people we are talking about on this forum would feel if they could read everything some members here "know" about them.

Silly as it may seem, there's more truth to many of these stories, in fact the private ones are even more outrageous. As far as Robbie visiting Levon only when he finally became unconscious, that does not sound like a genuine account for these people. Although I may side more on the side of Robbie make no mistake Levon was a great person who's character and friendliness was remarkable. No matter where the club or band if Levon was there he was ready to jam. People who really knew him say that once he had finally given up on The Band reunion he and Rick were incredibly happy playing intimate shows and afterwards Levon's barn. Danko was the most beloved person in Woodstock, cherished by all. If an entire community could not help him save himself, a reunion with Robertson would have made little difference.

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keefriffhard4life

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triceratops

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duke richardson
are you saying Levon blamed Robbie for the deaths of Manuel and Danko?

Richard Manuel no
Rick Danko yes

At the time of Danko's death there were tons of comments (at a the Band website out of Norway) how Danko was in poor health but was forced to tour due to lack of income. While Robbie was kicking back (what has he done since The Band?) and could afford to Danko was forced to tour while really bloated and prime heart attack material.
All due to how Robbie grabbed the songwriting credits at a time the others were too stoned or strung out (heroin) to do much. Go blame them for being too drugged out I guess. Yes? No?

Levon talked extensively about the Robbie rip-off. Levon had to work a lot harder (in his older years) than he preferred due to his rightful share of song writing royalties going to Robbie. Levon greatly resented this and was quoted extensively on it.

The great Robbie rip-off did not kill Levon the way it did Rick Danko. Levon was smarter with his health.

As an aside---- Leonard Cohen would have been retired and doing zen meditation but his financial advisors stole 8 million from him while he was meditating in a zen monastery for 6 years. So he was forced to tour extensively the last few years. All will agree he has been doing a great job at it

what is the proof robbie was ripping off the other members with writing credits? again there is more proof, the solo albums, the 3 post roberston Band albums, etc, that shows these guys were not cranking out songs like they want us to believe.

robertson has even stated a lot of his fortune came from all of the movie soundtrack work he has done. maybe you should look into that instead of saying what has he done since he left The Band. robertson has served as creative consultant or music supervisor or songwriter for close to 20 films since he left The Band and also released 5 solo albums, which are comprised on roughly 96% original songs written by robertson.

You obviously have never read what Levon Helm (RIP) has to say in interviews and books about the Robertson rip-off. Read "This Wheel's on Fire: Levon Helm and the Story of the Band " came out in 2000 [www.amazon.com]

Here is the wikipedia entry on this book>>>

This Wheel's on Fire – Levon Helm and the Story of The Band is the 1993 autobiography of actor and musician Levon Helm, focusing on his career as a member of the rock group The Band. The book, written with music journalist Stephen Davis, traces Helm's life from his childhood in the deep south through his years as a drummer and singer for The Band, to his struggle to establish a professional identity in the wake of the group's official end in 1976.[1]
The book is notable for providing readers with an inside look at the evolution of a rock 'n' roll group, as well as for placing the blame for The Band's break-up—among other injustices—on the shoulders of Robbie Robertson, the guitarist for The Band. Among the accusations Helm makes against Robertson is conspiring with record companies to steal song-writing credits from other members of The Band, arranging the group's break-up as a part of a private agenda, and conspiring with The Last Waltz director Martin Scorsese (a personal friend of Robertson's) to make Robertson appear to be the leader and most important member of the group.
Helm's bitterness toward Robertson is balanced by his effusive praise of other musicians, especially other members of The Band, even pausing to admire Robertson's stage presence and talent as a guitarist.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 01:53 by triceratops.