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DoomandGloom
If an entire community could not help him save himself, a reunion with Robertson would have made little difference.

Sadly, that's what drugs are known for -- holding someone out of reach from an entire community.

Had The Band continued after the Last Waltz they would probably have made a few decent albums at best and then descended into a dark well of fighting, drug addictions, identity crisis and lack of creativity in the 80s. Dirty Work-style.

delete



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 01:53 by triceratops.

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DoomandGloom
The story I know in short is that Danko had a "mad" brother who was obsessed with Civil War and old southern history. He wrote much of the prose in the famous "kitchen" book that Robbie used for lyrics. No one wanted the brother to be involved in the business side and Robbie grabbed the credit. Collectively it could be said they were all thieves with Robbie ending up with most of the "take". The Band never wanted this known, that's why each member's story is full of contradictions.

Robbie was also a heroin user at various stages of his life. Danko was poor and near his demise was forced to work in cheap and undignified setting due to lack of songwriting income due the Robertson rip off. Forced to abuse his health which was not good. Levon Helm implied this at the time of Danko's death. He was perhaps afraid of a Robertson lawsuit if he said it outright

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DoomandGloom
If we want to look for a "fairy tale" rock and roll ending we need to look no further than The Stones who are riding off into the sunset in splendid fashion.

It's an interesting comparison. In a way -- perhaps from regular people's perspective -- the Stones lifestyle should have led them towards the same fate as The Band, i.e. breakup and early deaths of several members. If you see it in a cynical way The Band kind of ended up like they were expected to -- the wildest and perhaps most fragile of the bunch died first and the ones who survive today are the two who didn't do a lot of drugs. They could be shown as a schoolbook example for kids, whereas the Stones seems to have gotten away with a lot of stuff they expected to. On the other hand a lot of it comes from Mick Jagger's (and the other Stones') perserverance, patience and love of the Stones music. And who knows, maybe there is some truth to Keith's claims that he actually tried to be careful with the drugs even when he was half strung out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 02:07 by LieB.

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LieB

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DoomandGloom
If we want to look for a "fairy tale" rock and roll ending we need to look no further than The Stones who are riding off into the sunset in splendid fashion.

It's an interesting comparison. In a way -- perhaps from regular people's perspective -- the Stones lifestyle should have led them towards the same fate as The Band, i.e. breakup and early deaths of several members. If you see it in a cynical way The Band kind of ended up like they were expected to -- the wildest and perhaps most fragile of the bunch died first and the ones who survive today are the two who didn't do a lot of drugs. They could be shown as a schoolbook example for kids, whereas the Stones seems to have gotten away with a lot of stuff they expected to. On the other hand a lot of it comes from Mick Jagger's (and the other Stones') perserverance, patience and love of the Stones music. And who knows, maybe there is some truth to Keith's claims that he actually tried to be careful with the drugs even when he was half strung out.

In Exile photos you see Keith reading and sunning himself, not locked away with a needle and a spoon. Keith liked everything but most of all booze, then the blow so he could drink more booze.....

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triceratops

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DoomandGloom
The story I know in short is that Danko had a "mad" brother who was obsessed with Civil War and old southern history. He wrote much of the prose in the famous "kitchen" book that Robbie used for lyrics. No one wanted the brother to be involved in the business side and Robbie grabbed the credit. Collectively it could be said they were all thieves with Robbie ending up with most of the "take". The Band never wanted this known, that's why each member's story is full of contradictions.

Robbie was also a heroin user at various stages of his life. Danko was poor and near his demise was forced to work in cheap and undignified setting due to lack of songwriting income due the Robertson rip off. Forced to abuse his health which was not good. Levon Helm implied this at the time of Danko's death. He was perhaps afraid of a Robertson lawsuit if he said it outright

so just tell us why the rest of the guys couldn't come up with an unending supply of songs after robertson was out of the picture? why are helms solo albums comprised mostly of covers? why are the 3 post robertson band albums mostly covers? why was robertson able to co-write songs with other artists like van morrson, eric clapton, neil diamond, and others? why is robertsons solo material almost all original songs written by him? why was robertson asked to appear on danko's solo album?

levon and the rest of the guys in the band seem more like that lazy construction worker who does nothing to help build the house until its almost done. at the very end the guy gets off his ass, hammers in the final nail and then wants equal credit for building the house. clearly robertson came up with the songs and during the finishing stages the other guys changed or added something and then wanted the credit. if i paint a mustache on the mona lisa that still doesn't make me a co-painter of the mona lisa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 03:41 by keefriffhard4life.

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keefriffhard4life

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triceratops

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DoomandGloom
The story I know in short is that Danko had a "mad" brother who was obsessed with Civil War and old southern history. He wrote much of the prose in the famous "kitchen" book that Robbie used for lyrics. No one wanted the brother to be involved in the business side and Robbie grabbed the credit. Collectively it could be said they were all thieves with Robbie ending up with most of the "take". The Band never wanted this known, that's why each member's story is full of contradictions.

Robbie was also a heroin user at various stages of his life. Danko was poor and near his demise was forced to work in cheap and undignified setting due to lack of songwriting income due the Robertson rip off. Forced to abuse his health which was not good. Levon Helm implied this at the time of Danko's death. He was perhaps afraid of a Robertson lawsuit if he said it outright

so just tell us why the rest of the guys couldn't come up with an unending supply of songs after robertson was out of the picture? why are helms solo albums comprised mostly of covers? why are the 3 post robertson band albums mostly covers? why was robertson able to co-write songs with other artists like van morrson, eric clapton, neil diamond, and others? why is robertsons solo material almost all original songs written by him? why was robertson asked to appear on danko's solo album?

levon and the rest of the guys in the band seem more like that lazy construction worker who does nothing to help build the house until its almost done. at the very end the guy gets off his ass, hammers in the final nail and then wants equal credit for building the house. clearly robertson came up with the songs and during the finishing stages the other guys changed or added something and then wanted the credit. if i paint a mustache on the mona lisa that still doesn't make me a co-painter of the mona lisa

Now you are just bloviating. Go read Wheels on Fire if you care about the Robertson rip-off.

Post Robertson the Band got together and toured with new personnel. They wrote new music. Robbies music output has been pathetic, pretentious and remainder binned long ago. He put out a few American Indian albums? lol lol lol Only his mother is Canadian Indian and he never lived on the Rez. His dad was a Jewish gambler. This is how he is described.
But he scored movies--
Yeah about three of them 20-30 years ago due to his Scorcese connection who hired him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 04:50 by triceratops.

Didn't Robbie write Brocken Arrow in the late 80's. I love that song. How to Become Clairvoyant is a solid album. I saw the Band many times and what always stands out in my mind is how intense of a guitar player he was. Just bleeding with every note. They could roll in many ways. I saw the Band play after Robbie at The Saddle Rack in San Jose- a shell of the former group.

The personal side sounds sad with the whole group. Ugly. Probably best they split up in 1976. As a Grateful Dead song says, 'You get confused, listen to the music play'. I sure am glad that the world had the Band- a better place for it!

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triceratops

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keefriffhard4life

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triceratops

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DoomandGloom
The story I know in short is that Danko had a "mad" brother who was obsessed with Civil War and old southern history. He wrote much of the prose in the famous "kitchen" book that Robbie used for lyrics. No one wanted the brother to be involved in the business side and Robbie grabbed the credit. Collectively it could be said they were all thieves with Robbie ending up with most of the "take". The Band never wanted this known, that's why each member's story is full of contradictions.

Robbie was also a heroin user at various stages of his life. Danko was poor and near his demise was forced to work in cheap and undignified setting due to lack of songwriting income due the Robertson rip off. Forced to abuse his health which was not good. Levon Helm implied this at the time of Danko's death. He was perhaps afraid of a Robertson lawsuit if he said it outright

so just tell us why the rest of the guys couldn't come up with an unending supply of songs after robertson was out of the picture? why are helms solo albums comprised mostly of covers? why are the 3 post robertson band albums mostly covers? why was robertson able to co-write songs with other artists like van morrson, eric clapton, neil diamond, and others? why is robertsons solo material almost all original songs written by him? why was robertson asked to appear on danko's solo album?

levon and the rest of the guys in the band seem more like that lazy construction worker who does nothing to help build the house until its almost done. at the very end the guy gets off his ass, hammers in the final nail and then wants equal credit for building the house. clearly robertson came up with the songs and during the finishing stages the other guys changed or added something and then wanted the credit. if i paint a mustache on the mona lisa that still doesn't make me a co-painter of the mona lisa

Now you are just bloviating. Go read Wheels on Fire if you care about the Robertson rip-off.

Post Robertson the Band got together and toured with new personnel. They wrote new music. Robbies music output has been pathetic, pretentious and remainder binned long ago. He put out a few American Indian albums? lol lol lol Only his mother is Canadian Indian and he never lived on the Rez. His dad was a Jewish gambler. This is how he is described.
But he scored movies--
Yeah about three of them 20-30 years ago due to his Scorcese connection who hired him.

his first 2 solo albums sold more than the 3 non robertson band albums, danko solo albums and helm solo albums combined. robbie's solo albums may not sound like his work with the band but the 3 non native american albums are great and you can tell its the same guy who wrote the bands material. i don't need to read a book to know these guys just didn't understand writing credits. the new bands first 2 albums contain a total of 3 new songs that have a writing credit to helm, danko or hudson.

how about the claim by danko for years he helped write "twilight" but the demo is now released for all to see. robertson by himself at his house just him and a piano.

his first 2 solo albums sold more than the 3 non robertson band albums, danko solo albums and helm solo albums combined.

Show me the numbers

robbie's solo albums may not sound like his work with the band....

They were freakin arful, unlistenable aside from some competant guitar playing by him

How to Become Clairvoyant album by Robbie has Clapton on many songs, Steve Winwood, Trent Reznor, Pino Palladino and Robert Randolph. That is quite a line up for an album. Clapton wrote some of the songs with Robbie. The album got to #13 on the billboard chart. I would say that is quite a successful solo album.

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triceratops
his first 2 solo albums sold more than the 3 non robertson band albums, danko solo albums and helm solo albums combined.

Show me the numbers

robbie's solo albums may not sound like his work with the band....

They were freakin arful, unlistenable aside from some competant guitar playing by him

his first 2 solo albums are both certified gold, 500k+, in the USAand multiplatinum in canada and nothing any of the other members did have a certification. rod stewart and the grateful dead coverd robertsons "broken arrow" and i'm sure robertson made a ton off of that. the albums are not awful. all of his albums have gotten huge praise and charted high other than the native american stuff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 06:18 by keefriffhard4life.

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dougie
How to Become Clairvoyant album by Robbie has Clapton on many songs, Steve Winwood, Trent Reznor, Pino Palladino and Robert Randolph. That is quite a line up for an album. Clapton wrote some of the songs with Robbie. The album got to #13 on the billboard chart. I would say that is quite a successful solo album.

yup got to #13 as basically an indie release. nothing the other members of the band did charted that high. even the band albums in the 90's never charted that high

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triceratops

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DoomandGloom
The story I know in short is that Danko had a "mad" brother who was obsessed with Civil War and old southern history. He wrote much of the prose in the famous "kitchen" book that Robbie used for lyrics. No one wanted the brother to be involved in the business side and Robbie grabbed the credit. Collectively it could be said they were all thieves with Robbie ending up with most of the "take". The Band never wanted this known, that's why each member's story is full of contradictions.

Robbie was also a heroin user at various stages of his life. Danko was poor and near his demise was forced to work in cheap and undignified setting due to lack of songwriting income due the Robertson rip off. Forced to abuse his health which was not good. Levon Helm implied this at the time of Danko's death. He was perhaps afraid of a Robertson lawsuit if he said it outright

"Lack of songwriting income" from songs he didn't write! I am not the biggest Robertson fan (the man is rather full of himself) but some of this reminds me of the members of CCR revolting against Fogerty and he called their bluff and said "great, you guys write the next album". The result was Mardis Gras, and the only decent songs on it were the two that Fogerty contributed. Face the facts: Great bands need great songwriters, and it's a rare band that has more than one or two. Sometimes great songwriters have big egos. It goes with the territory. Seems to me Helm was angry because he didn't come up with very many songs, and neither did the rest of them. And yes, there's more money in publishing than in recording or performing, but I would say "want more publishing money? Write some hit songs!" Arranging is NOT writing!

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71Tele

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triceratops

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DoomandGloom
The story I know in short is that Danko had a "mad" brother who was obsessed with Civil War and old southern history. He wrote much of the prose in the famous "kitchen" book that Robbie used for lyrics. No one wanted the brother to be involved in the business side and Robbie grabbed the credit. Collectively it could be said they were all thieves with Robbie ending up with most of the "take". The Band never wanted this known, that's why each member's story is full of contradictions.

Robbie was also a heroin user at various stages of his life. Danko was poor and near his demise was forced to work in cheap and undignified setting due to lack of songwriting income due the Robertson rip off. Forced to abuse his health which was not good. Levon Helm implied this at the time of Danko's death. He was perhaps afraid of a Robertson lawsuit if he said it outright

"Lack of songwriting income" from songs he didn't write! I am not the biggest Robertson fan (the man is rather full of himself) but some of this reminds me of the members of CCR revolting against Fogerty and he called their bluff and said "great, you guys write the next album". The result was Mardis Gras, and the only decent songs on it were the two that Fogerty contributed. Face the facts: Great bands need great songwriters, and it's a rare band that has more than one or two. Sometimes great songwriters have big egos. It goes with the territory. Seems to me Helm was angry because he didn't come up with very many songs, and neither did the rest of them. And yes, there's more money in publishing than in recording or performing, but I would say "want more publishing money? Write some hit songs!" Arranging is NOT writing!

and thats what i've been saying. what was clear to me with the 3 post robertson band albums is helm and danko and probably hudson did a lot of arranging. the fact they could take cover tunes and release albums in the 90's that sounded the same way the stuff did in the 70's showed me they had a hand in the sound. in the arrangement. the lack of actually material written by helm, dank and hudson on the 3 90's albums though showed me they didn't really understand what warrants a writing credit because they came up with practically no new material. they had a chance to prove robertson was full of it and they did nothing to prove because on their own they came up with a total of 11 brand new songs spread out over 3 albums.

Didn't the guy who played the famous organ part in "Whiter Shade Of Pale" sue to get a songwriting credit because his part was so "distinctive"? He lost.

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71Tele
Didn't the guy who played the famous organ part in "Whiter Shade Of Pale" sue to get a songwriting credit because his part was so "distinctive"? He lost.

No, he won.

The judged ruled that:

with the description of the organ solo as “significant and as hugely famous.” He found that Matthew Fisher’s organ solo is …a distinctive and significant contribution to the overall composition and, quite obviously, the product of skill and labour on the part of the person who created it.

Gary Brooker filed an appeal, but Matthew Fisher's name now appears as one of the songwriters. He could not be awarded retrospective royalties, but has received his share of royalties from 2005 on.

Story at: [www.examiner.com]

Procol Harum organist Matthew Fisher wins share of A Whiter Shade of Pale royalties

Organist Matthew Fisher has won a share of the royalties of the Procol Harum song A Whiter Shade of Pale, 42 years after the record became one of the biggest hits in pop history.


Matthew Fisher successfully claimed a share of the royalties from the tune after winning his claim in the High Court in 2006

Mr Fisher successfully claimed a share of the royalties from the tune after winning his claim in the High Court in 2006. He was awarded 40 per cent of the music royalties.

But two years later Mr Brooker was successful at the Court of Appeal where judges said Mr Fisher, although a co-author, had no right to royalties because of the time that had elapsed before he made his claim.

The Law Lords however reinstated the High Court decision, ruling that the delay in bringing the claim had not caused any harm to Mr Brooker, who had benefited financially from the delay.

However, Mr Fisher can only claim future royalties from the record.

Story at: [www.telegraph.co.uk]-

Andrew Sandoval, who helped with some of the remixes for Rhino years ago, says that Helm was a chore to work with, with Helm claiming his parts were being sabotaged in the remixes and remasters.
I always thought the problem was that Helm seemed jealous of the friendship between Robertson and Scorsese. But let's face it, Robertson had better screen charisma than the others did in The Last Waltz. I thought Helm held his own in the interview sections (and was great in Coal Miner's Daughter), but Robbie just looked better on screen. My wife still talks about it to this day. Rick was ok, in a sort of "ah, shucks" sort of way, Garth looks like he wants to go to sleep, and Richard's drunk. There is one bit in that book Easy Riders, Raging Bulls where someone says it's too bad Scorsese wasn't gay, 'cause the only person he really loved was Robbie.

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keefriffhard4life

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71Tele

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triceratops

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DoomandGloom
The story I know in short is that Danko had a "mad" brother who was obsessed with Civil War and old southern history. He wrote much of the prose in the famous "kitchen" book that Robbie used for lyrics. No one wanted the brother to be involved in the business side and Robbie grabbed the credit. Collectively it could be said they were all thieves with Robbie ending up with most of the "take". The Band never wanted this known, that's why each member's story is full of contradictions.

Robbie was also a heroin user at various stages of his life. Danko was poor and near his demise was forced to work in cheap and undignified setting due to lack of songwriting income due the Robertson rip off. Forced to abuse his health which was not good. Levon Helm implied this at the time of Danko's death. He was perhaps afraid of a Robertson lawsuit if he said it outright

"Lack of songwriting income" from songs he didn't write! I am not the biggest Robertson fan (the man is rather full of himself) but some of this reminds me of the members of CCR revolting against Fogerty and he called their bluff and said "great, you guys write the next album". The result was Mardis Gras, and the only decent songs on it were the two that Fogerty contributed. Face the facts: Great bands need great songwriters, and it's a rare band that has more than one or two. Sometimes great songwriters have big egos. It goes with the territory. Seems to me Helm was angry because he didn't come up with very many songs, and neither did the rest of them. And yes, there's more money in publishing than in recording or performing, but I would say "want more publishing money? Write some hit songs!" Arranging is NOT writing!

and thats what i've been saying. what was clear to me with the 3 post robertson band albums is helm and danko and probably hudson did a lot of arranging. the fact they could take cover tunes and release albums in the 90's that sounded the same way the stuff did in the 70's showed me they had a hand in the sound. in the arrangement. the lack of actually material written by helm, dank and hudson on the 3 90's albums though showed me they didn't really understand what warrants a writing credit because they came up with practically no new material. they had a chance to prove robertson was full of it and they did nothing to prove because on their own they came up with a total of 11 brand new songs spread out over 3 albums.

Agree 100% with Keef and Tele. I've always thought it was strange what some musicians feel warrants a songwriting credit and it's sad how much acrimony those disagreements can lead to. The best advice I've seen for bands starting out is to discuss that stuff from the get-go, don't wait until the album's done to decide who gets credit for what.

Regarding Whiter Shade of Pale, I thought Bach wrote that organ part?

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tomk
Andrew Sandoval, who helped with some of the remixes for Rhino years ago, says that Helm was a chore to work with, with Helm claiming his parts were being sabotaged in the remixes and remasters.
I always thought the problem was that Helm seemed jealous of the friendship between Robertson and Scorsese. But let's face it, Robertson had better screen charisma than the others did in The Last Waltz. I thought Helm held his own in the interview sections (and was great in Coal Miner's Daughter), but Robbie just looked better on screen. My wife still talks about it to this day. Rick was ok, in a sort of "ah, shucks" sort of way, Garth looks like he wants to go to sleep, and Richard's drunk. There is one bit in that book Easy Riders, Raging Bulls where someone says it's too bad Scorsese wasn't gay, 'cause the only person he really loved was Robbie.

the last waltz makes robertson look like a putz though

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Aquamarine
Regarding Whiter Shade of Pale, I thought Bach wrote that organ part?

If so, he may as well step up and claim his share. As the keyboardist from Procol Harum has shown, it's never too late to get the credit you deserve.

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DoomandGloom
In Exile photos you see Keith reading and sunning himself, not locked away with a needle and a spoon. Keith liked everything but most of all booze, then the blow so he could drink more booze.....

On the other hand, he probably didn't drink huge amounts like Richard Manuel whose liver swelled so much it was visible from the outside. There's ample evidence of how destructive alcohol can be.

I'm also pretty convinced that Keith was healthier than most heroin addicts because he was wealthy, had many non-addicted friends and played in one of the world's most successful bands.

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71Tele
And yes, there's more money in publishing than in recording or performing, but I would say "want more publishing money? Write some hit songs!" Arranging is NOT writing!

I think it's unfair and sad that songwriting/publishing gives so much more money in the long run than performing and recording. The whole conflict between Levon and Robbie and so many other songwriters and bandmembers stems from this fact.

Sure, songwriting is a qualified job in a sense, but why don't I get any money for the hamburgers I served a decade ago....?

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stonehearted

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71Tele
Didn't the guy who played the famous organ part in "Whiter Shade Of Pale" sue to get a songwriting credit because his part was so "distinctive"? He lost.

No, he won.

The judged ruled that:

with the description of the organ solo as “significant and as hugely famous.” He found that Matthew Fisher’s organ solo is …a distinctive and significant contribution to the overall composition and, quite obviously, the product of skill and labour on the part of the person who created it.

Gary Brooker filed an appeal, but Matthew Fisher's name now appears as one of the songwriters. He could not be awarded retrospective royalties, but has received his share of royalties from 2005 on.

Story at: [www.examiner.com]

Procol Harum organist Matthew Fisher wins share of A Whiter Shade of Pale royalties

Organist Matthew Fisher has won a share of the royalties of the Procol Harum song A Whiter Shade of Pale, 42 years after the record became one of the biggest hits in pop history.


Matthew Fisher successfully claimed a share of the royalties from the tune after winning his claim in the High Court in 2006

Mr Fisher successfully claimed a share of the royalties from the tune after winning his claim in the High Court in 2006. He was awarded 40 per cent of the music royalties.

But two years later Mr Brooker was successful at the Court of Appeal where judges said Mr Fisher, although a co-author, had no right to royalties because of the time that had elapsed before he made his claim.

The Law Lords however reinstated the High Court decision, ruling that the delay in bringing the claim had not caused any harm to Mr Brooker, who had benefited financially from the delay.

However, Mr Fisher can only claim future royalties from the record.

Story at: [www.telegraph.co.uk]-

Thank you for the correction. I wasn't aware of the most recent decision.

Somebody, somewhere said that Mike Love should kiss the feet of and thank Brian Wilson every day for saving him from a life of pumping gas. Of course that is a cartoon statement -- Love contributed mightily to the Beach Boys, co-wrote lyrically many of their hits, successfully sued for back royalties, and may have very well had a nice career doing something else had it not been for the Beach Boys. But the point to be made -- no Brian Wilson and we never hear of the other guys in the band most likely to any great degree. And it's the same with Robbie and his Band mates.

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Wry Cooter
Somebody, somewhere said that Mike Love should kiss the feet of and thank Brian Wilson every day for saving him from a life of pumping gas. Of course that is a cartoon statement -- Love contributed mightily to the Beach Boys, co-wrote lyrically many of their hits, successfully sued for back royalties, and may have very well had a nice career doing something else had it not been for the Beach Boys. But the point to be made -- no Brian Wilson and we never hear of the other guys in the band most likely to any great degree. And it's the same with Robbie and his Band mates.

Nope, as John Lennon said, Ringo always would have been a star even without The Beatles, the same holds true for Levon. Helm's talents were remarkable, I would guess he would still have made a mark...

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LieB

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71Tele
And yes, there's more money in publishing than in recording or performing, but I would say "want more publishing money? Write some hit songs!" Arranging is NOT writing!

I think it's unfair and sad that songwriting/publishing gives so much more money in the long run than performing and recording. The whole conflict between Levon and Robbie and so many other songwriters and bandmembers stems from this fact.

Sure, songwriting is a qualified job in a sense, but why don't I get any money for the hamburgers I served a decade ago....?

Because you didn't invent the hamburger, or some special kind of hamburger? Correct me if I'm wrong and you did.

I don't think it's unfair at all. What's that line about "10% inspiration, 90% perspiration"? It is work. It does take time and effort.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 20:23 by andrewm.

What happened was that it really was a case of "One voice for all", and all for one, on the Basement Tapes, Big Pink, and The Band albums. I think Robbie really did try hard to encourage the others to write songs, but drugs got in the way, and from Cahoots onwards Robbie was the sole songwriter.

You also had a really smart guy in Robbie, who managed to study the busy deals that were taking place in the music industry, whereas Levon, Richard, Rick, and Garth thought they could just get by on playing. Robbie would have learnt from Morris Levy, Albert Grossman, Bill Graham, and the rest of the money-making guys, whereas Levon and co didn't apply themselves, and lost money as a consequence.

Re: Matthew Fisher and Procol Harum. Matthew Fisher's only other credit with Procol was for Repent Walpurgis. He departed in 1970, and turned up later on The Well's On Fire. Most of Procol's material from 1967 - 1977 was written by Brooker / Reid, with some contributions from Robin Trower up to Broken Barricades. Unfortunately, and unfairly, Procol became a one-hit wonder band, but they managed to turn out some fine albums from 1967 - 1975. They were also influenced, by all accounts, by The Band.

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keefriffhard4life

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71Tele

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triceratops

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DoomandGloom
The story I know in short is that Danko had a "mad" brother who was obsessed with Civil War and old southern history. He wrote much of the prose in the famous "kitchen" book that Robbie used for lyrics. No one wanted the brother to be involved in the business side and Robbie grabbed the credit. Collectively it could be said they were all thieves with Robbie ending up with most of the "take". The Band never wanted this known, that's why each member's story is full of contradictions.

Robbie was also a heroin user at various stages of his life. Danko was poor and near his demise was forced to work in cheap and undignified setting due to lack of songwriting income due the Robertson rip off. Forced to abuse his health which was not good. Levon Helm implied this at the time of Danko's death. He was perhaps afraid of a Robertson lawsuit if he said it outright

"Lack of songwriting income" from songs he didn't write! I am not the biggest Robertson fan (the man is rather full of himself) but some of this reminds me of the members of CCR revolting against Fogerty and he called their bluff and said "great, you guys write the next album". The result was Mardis Gras, and the only decent songs on it were the two that Fogerty contributed. Face the facts: Great bands need great songwriters, and it's a rare band that has more than one or two. Sometimes great songwriters have big egos. It goes with the territory. Seems to me Helm was angry because he didn't come up with very many songs, and neither did the rest of them. And yes, there's more money in publishing than in recording or performing, but I would say "want more publishing money? Write some hit songs!" Arranging is NOT writing!

and thats what i've been saying. what was clear to me with the 3 post robertson band albums is helm and danko and probably hudson did a lot of arranging. the fact they could take cover tunes and release albums in the 90's that sounded the same way the stuff did in the 70's showed me they had a hand in the sound. in the arrangement. the lack of actually material written by helm, dank and hudson on the 3 90's albums though showed me they didn't really understand what warrants a writing credit because they came up with practically no new material. they had a chance to prove robertson was full of it and they did nothing to prove because on their own they came up with a total of 11 brand new songs spread out over 3 albums.

Well if he won then Duane Allmans' estate should sue for the Layla riff... These are difficult presidents to grab. In the Brill Building days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brill_Building) songwriting credits were shared with agents and mob types even if they were not musicians. This is the world that Dylan learned from, where he held his rights like a crazy man... Robbie learned from this... stories during Planet Waves has Bob Dylan taking boxes of master tapes away from the studio after each session. He was that afraid the record company CBS would take and mix them before he was done. The engineers would confront Bob at bars as the tapes sat in his van outside in the dead of winter. Helm disliked Dylan and their early tours with Bob featured Kenny Buttrey as the drummer, he also played on Harvest and today is a unknown drumming hero. [www.gearslutz.com]. The musical relationship between Helm and The Band today seems like a no brainer in hindsight but these were volatile people who walked out on one another on numerous occasions. Richard Manuel was also a drummer and played on some of their recordings as well... Helm followed much the same path as Robbie after The Last Waltz, dipping into Hollywood. The LW movie had a huge impact and all of these guys had the world in front of them to move their careers forward.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-20 22:49 by DoomandGloom.