Nice list, flac! Helps me understand the frustration. Tunes that are classics
can still sound fresh after not being played for a while.

~"Love is Strong"~

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Havo
in my opinion they should do at least 5-6 of their so called "warhorses" in every concert. I know, I know--we heard satisfaction--brown sugar-JJF-SMU or TD a lot of times. But stadium or Arena shows are totally different. Come on---everybody of you is clapping the hands , when they start with SMU! these are songs, which 85% of the audience would like to hear!!!

By the way--Which stones songs are "Warhorses"? i would say a lot of their recordings.!

you dont wanna hear "paint it, black"--"sympathy for the devil", "Its only rockn roll"-???

I never liked "miss you" very much----but the Stones performed it great in the last concerts.

Another "warhorse" is "Happy" --and so on

---but what can a poor boy do--if Most of their records are "Warhorses"?

I don't say that they should or ought to or that is or has been realistic lately or for many decades, but, asked, what I would have like most: a setlist consisting of songs from the last, say, three albums. Encores, changing from concert to concert, could be any older song, gladly socalled warhorses. This has been my view for decades.

I think it would simply have been good and sound for the band and its development. This is said by one who has disagreed to the socalled Las Vegas label sticked to the band, when what that label expresses in my understanding of it instead is a consequence of the fact that most Stones concertgoers for decades have not been and are not particularly interested in hearing songs from their latest album. If they had been, it would have made the band work more and more inspiredly with their albums. I state this, in as much as I even as it is, like their later studio albums as a consequence of my liking of their approach to music and their taste. All the same, one senses that what is good, rather good or only OK, could have been better or even much better. A judgement made all the more probable by the five or six concerts of 2012 than before this time.

Apart from that view, during concerts of former tours my greatest joy has often been through their treatment of some seemingly more ordinary song of theirs, thereby lifted to something special¨and at times to a highlight of a concert. Their ability to such a thing is one of their greatest assets as a live band, I think.

And before I am heavily criticized for these views, I have not insisted. I answer to the question of this thread.

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GravityBoy
"War..." sung by a horse.

They just did that on Saturday.

Even though I stuck up for Gaga huge before the performance, tried to get her haters to give her a chance, I cannot deny how funny this comment actually is.

[thepowergoats.com]

I'm fine with the warhorses with three exceptions:

IORR - I love the record but think the Chuck Berry-ized live versions lose all their impact and atmosphere. And that's going back to '75.

Miss You - it just goes on for waaaay too long...

Start Me Up - kind of like IORR, the studio version is so good in large part due to the production. As such, I've never liked it live.

(I don't count You Got Me Rockin' as a warhorse. I mean, they play it a lot, but it's just a piece of fluff. Which makes the fact that it's been a mainstay in their set for almost 20 years kind of mind-boggling)

But yeah, the warhorses in '12 did seem to be played with an enthusiasm not seen since late last century.

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JuanTCB
But yeah, the warhorses in '12 did seem to be played with an enthusiasm not seen since late last century.

an enthusiastic attacktrouser is still an attacktrouser. it's putting lipstick on a pig...or more to the point, making sure the attacktrouser has a nice crease.

It depends on the song.

It's Only Rock and Roll and Miss You - I don't care to ever hear those live again, and Honkey Tonk Women has lost a lot of it's spark in the Vegas Years, same with Jumpin Jack Flash, which for me has NEVER sounded as good live as the studio recording - ever. Sympathy - when they stop using fake sampled drums I just might care about it again.

For me it's not only because they're over-played, but that I don't care for the same 23-year-old Vegas arrangements they've been doing with them.

On the other hand...

Start Me Up, what an amazing opener in 89, the Continental Drift lead-up. Brown Sugar - I can't not love this song, ditto Gimme Shelter, Tumbling Dice, Paint It Black.

[thepowergoats.com]

One of the big problems on recent tours (from 98 onwards) is that they went down to just 19 songs in general. With 10 solid warhorses and a few semi-warhorses this leaves little room for new material and hidden gems.

At least this new tour gave us 23 song sets. This allows for a really good mixture of stuff. So take the recent show:


Get Off Of My Cloud
The Last Time
It's Only Rock'n Roll
Paint It Black
Gimme Shelter (with Lady Gaga)
Wild Horses
Going Down (with John Mayer and Gary Clark, Jr)
Dead Flowers (by request)
Who Do You Love (with Black Keys)
Doom And Gloom
One More Shot
Miss You
Honky Tonk Women
Before They Make Me Run (Keith)
Happy (Keith)
Midnight Rambler (with Mick Taylor)
Start Me Up
Tumbling Dice (with Bruce Springsteen)
Brown Sugar
Sympathy For The Devil
You Can't Always Get What You Want (with Choir)
Jumping Jack Flash
Satisfaction

There are still 9 or 10 non-warhorses on the list! And that's if you include songs like wild horses and PIB as warhorses.

I think that's a really good mix. Add in the fact that they played them so well (is anyone seriously saing they didn't enjoy GS or YCAGWYW) and I'm not sure I really get the complaining.

For the sake of "research", I've counted up the number of times they've played each of the songs I've seen at the 11 gigs I've been to. I realise I've only been to a few gigs in comparison to most people here so maybe it's not the most comprehensive comparison. However, it is my experience.

The results are this:

67 different songs played over 11 gigs, and a total of 219 individual performances of songs.

54 songs played at less than half the gigs.

13 songs played at more than half the gigs.

42 songs played only once or twice.

So on this basis, I'm not really complaining too much! I might complain however that I've missed Dead Flowers and Worried About You but any fan of any band will always have a wish list of songs they'd like to see.


Ain't Too Proud To Beg 1
Angie 1
Beast Of Burden 1
Can't You Hear Me Knocking 1
Connection 1
Doom And Gloom 1
Going Down 1
I Just Want To Make Love To You 1
I Wanna Be Your Man 1
I'll Go Crazy 1
Little Red Rooster 1
Love In Vain (with guest Paolo Nutini) 1
Loving Cup 1
Mannish Boy 1
Monkey Man 1
Night Time Is The Right Time 1
Oh No Not You Again 1
One More Shot 1
Rain Fall Down 1
Respectable 1
Route 66 1
Saint of Me 1
Shine A Light 1
Star Star 1
Streets Of Love 1
Sway 1
Sweet Virginia 1
The Nearness Of You 1
The Worst 1
Bitch 2
Get Off Of My Cloud 2
I Go Wild 2
I Wanna Hold You 2
Let's Spend The Night Together 2
Not Fade Away 2
Out Of Control 2
Rock And A Hard Place 2
Rocks Off 2
Ruby Tuesday 2
She's So Cold 2
Sparks Will Fly 2
You Got The Silver 2
All Down The Line 3
Don't Stop 3
Happy 3
It's All Over Now 3
Like A Rolling Stone 3
Live With Me 4
Midnight Rambler 4
Rough Justice 4
You Can't Always Get What You Want 4
Gimme Shelter 5
Street Fighting Man 5
Wild Horses 5
Before They Make Me Run 6
Paint It Black 6
Slipping Away 6
You Got Me Rocking 7
Miss You 8
It's Only Rock'n Roll 9
Satisfaction 10
Brown Sugar 11
Honky Tonk Women 11
Jumping Jack Flash 11
Start Me Up 11
Sympathy For The Devil 11
Tumbling Dice 11



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-18 02:23 by sjs12.

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StonesTod
alright.

but, eventually justice will be served...hopefully with some bockwurst and maytag blue cheese.....

Did someone say JUSTICE?

here's a band with hundreds of songs, deep cuts, that they never play. why? they are not comfortable doing them and that's a slap in the face to fans. they do the songs they want to do. selfish to say the least. make an effort to do other things.

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jamesfdouglas
It depends on the song.

It's Only Rock and Roll and Miss You - I don't care to ever hear those live again, and Honkey Tonk Women has lost a lot of it's spark in the Vegas Years, same with Jumpin Jack Flash, which for me has NEVER sounded as good live as the studio recording - ever. Sympathy - when they stop using fake sampled drums I just might care about it again.

For me it's not only because they're over-played, but that I don't care for the same 23-year-old Vegas arrangements they've been doing with them.

On the other hand...

Start Me Up, what an amazing opener in 89, the Continental Drift lead-up. Brown Sugar - I can't not love this song, ditto Gimme Shelter, Tumbling Dice, Paint It Black.

I agree with you that going down to a 19-song setlist leaves little room for songs which make a show memorable. For many tours and years, most shows operated off of the same setlist with little variance other that occasional new songs from the current LP being added. Steel Wheels is a good example. Thereafter, in response to fan demand, we see changes and songs alternated on Voodoo and B2B tours. Then, in 99, all hell broke loose with openign the catalogue. And with LICKS in 2002-2003, they opened up and included various tunes for different shows.

However, if you look at the lists on these tours, there are so many classic songs that the Stones play on most tours until those FANATICS (fans!) like us on IORR want something special that enables us to experience somethign new and different. This desire is not common among those NOT on this board, as the casual to semi-serious fan who will see the Stones 1-5 times in her life wants to hear most, if not all, of the following:

1. Jumping Jack Flash 1027
2. Brown Sugar 1003
3. Honky Tonk Women 970
4. Tumbling Dice 963
5. Start Me Up 754
6. Satisfaction 754
7. It's Only Rock and Roll 678
8. Sympathy for the Devil 656
9. You Can't Always Get What You Want 627
10. Miss You 606
11. Midnight Rambler 554
12. Street Fighting Man 531
13. Gimme Shelter 526
14. Happy 471
15. You Got Me Rocking 413
16. All Down the Line 311
17. Paint It, Black 289
18. Bitch 261
19. Let's Spend the Night Together 249
20. Angie 236

The numbers following each are the total times the band has played the song in concert as found on Setlist.fm at [www.setlist.fm]

While MOST of us on this list have seen all of these songs countless times in concert, the Stones can't play to the smaller core of us freaks on IORR or Shidoobee or Undercover, because all of us probably might buy 1-2% of the tickets on any given tour, while those who buy the other 95% would be happy with a 20-song setlist of those songs above.

Fortunately, I think the Stones have done a great job of mixing it up, because in the 10 gigs I have seen:

1. Atlanta 89
2. Columbia, SC 94
3. Atlanta 94
4. Gainesville, FL 94
5. Washington DC 97
6. Atlanta 97
7. Charlotte, NC 99
8. Chicago (Aragon) 2002
9. Atlanta 2002
10. Nashville 2002

I have been fortunate to see INCREDIBLE versions of ALL warhorses above, and in addition, such amazing chestnuts as

1. Can't You Hear Me Knocking?
2. Torn & Frayed
3. No Expectations
4. Rocks Off
5. Walk & Don't Look Back
6. Route 66
7. You Got the Silver
8. Dance
9. Starphunker
10. Everybody Needs Somebody to Love

which, as a self-confessed freak about the Stones, are memories I will always treasure. However, many of the casual fans may have never heard Dance or Route 66 or even Torn & Frayed.

So, to wrap it up, while I personally could care less about ever hearing another live Start Me Up, YCAGWYW, Satisfaction, Angie, Miss You, or IORR, most people would be ecstatic for these 6 out of the shoot. We can thank the Stones for mixing it up and playing all songs, warhorses or not, at such a hgih level for so long until we, the fanatics, take them for granted.

stonesstein

Kick me like you did before
I can't even feel the pain no more
Rocks Off, 1972

Oops. Mistake post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-18 12:11 by sjs12.

Heard enough warhorses since 1976, Live and on the bootlegs.
i wanna hear the Other Songs.

I know, people who gonna see the band for the first time, wanna hear the warHorses. Only logical.

Just hope, if they tour next year, they play some obscure songs.
After all, they have rehearsed some good ones in paris.


jeroen

I always remember my Dad telling me how he'd witnessed fans at an Everly Bros concert booing them when they tried to play new material. Some fans only want to hear "The Classics" and that is the balance these artists have to try and satisfy. Bands also don't want to be seen as living museums who only play their greatest forty year old hits. The flip side to that is that a band like the Stones do not have a big archive of strong recent/memorable hits to draw on which could be played in lieu of Brown Sugar et al. Anyone expecting to see any departure from the established set list format is going to be disappointed.

Because it's tedious to here the same song over and over again? Especially when the band seems incapable of improvising or doing different arrangements on the songs. I didn't mind hearing Sinatra doing the same songs over and over because he always added something or slightly changed the arrangements on the songs. The same with Dylan even if his versions sometimes are trainwrecks of the originals. Better a trainwreck though than a tedious repetition.

I was really tired of HTW, SMU, SFTD and YCAGWYW. Still, they managed to make all these tunes sound fresh and inspired at the shows I saw. Impressive

A lot of members of IORR have invested lots of time and money in seeing the Stones over the years. Many (including me) have heard Miss You, Satisfaction, Start Me Up, etc a few times too many, and would prefer to hear other songs from the band's extensive back catalog. They have not done anything to 'add' to some of the warhorses in years to make them sound better, etc...so why just repeat tour after tour? (Answer: because the casual fans/investment bankers want to hear them and they buy the expensive seats).

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buffalo7478
A lot of members of IORR have invested lots of time and money in seeing the Stones over the years. Many (including me) have heard Miss You, Satisfaction, Start Me Up, etc a few times too many, and would prefer to hear other songs from the band's extensive back catalog. They have not done anything to 'add' to some of the warhorses in years to make them sound better, etc...so why just repeat tour after tour? (Answer: because the casual fans/investment bankers want to hear them and they buy the expensive seats).

Well, that's exactly what they have done, imo:

Choir + extended solo on YCAGWYW, better vocals and less sloppiness on SMU, a real tight HTW, SFTD with more guitar on the verses, better guitar solos and better vocals etc.

However, up till this string of shows I agree with you.

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DandelionPowderman

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buffalo7478
A lot of members of IORR have invested lots of time and money in seeing the Stones over the years. Many (including me) have heard Miss You, Satisfaction, Start Me Up, etc a few times too many, and would prefer to hear other songs from the band's extensive back catalog. They have not done anything to 'add' to some of the warhorses in years to make them sound better, etc...so why just repeat tour after tour? (Answer: because the casual fans/investment bankers want to hear them and they buy the expensive seats).

Well, that's exactly what they have done, imo:

Choir + extended solo on YCAGWYW, better vocals and less sloppiness on SMU, a real tight HTW, SFTD with more guitar on the verses, better guitar solos and better vocals etc.

However, up till this string of shows I agree with you.

As one who has not been to any of the concerts and did not take part in the PPV of the last concert, better sounding warhorses is also my impression. At the moment the old warhorses emerge as outright fresh and even vital.

The question is, whether the freshness can be reproduced over time. The answer to that question relates both to the band and to the interested public, who now immediately gets to hear glimpses of the music. The novelty factor is thereby sooner worn out, even if the quality is not. That fact makes it a challenge to keep up the freshness.

My intuition tells me that to make their concerts stay fresh to he band themselves and to the listeners' reception, some new material is needed. Then that new material needs to be made familiar to the listeners. Green Lady reformulated my view in a post in another thread in an interesting way, which I build upon.

New material distributed in the ordinary way through an album meets with a stumbling stone. The albums are bought by people usually not wanting to hear new songs during concerts, even if some of them might think that repetion of the socalled warhorses tend to be less interesting . Younger people that would be willing to listen to new songs and might embrace them at concerts if they knew them, tend not to be buyers of albums by the Stones. That means, new songs need to come to the younger listeners, not the other way round. And they would probably not be willing to pay for them at this stage, but possibly after having heard them at concerts.

Part of a possible solution to this problem was found with the electronic release of this year's two new songs, where apparently "Doom And Gloom" particularly was met with approval by new listeners. A similar kind of distribution of new songs is what may enable the band to play new songs live. Then the making and release of new songs probably ought to take such conditions into consideration to make the band's work with potential new songs worthwhile.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-18 20:32 by Witness.

I'd be pretty happy with no warhorses.

I have every Stones record they ever brought out and I play their music all the time - to be quite honest, live show or not, I never get bored with the "warhorses". I suppose we are all different. Ha, so have fun and remember... TURN IT UP!

"till the next time..."

Amazing that they can even play some of those tunes as many times as they have in the past. It's got to be slightly unfulfilling for them to do it again and again and again.

I mean I'm sick of playing some of the Stones songs I play. I would be excited to see them REALLY screw around with the melodies, arrangements, tempos, etc to try to make them more interesting to play and listen to at this point. Of course that is risky when they are thinking "legacy".

I would also love to see a middle section where they all play acoustic instruments, sing harmonies and sit on stools. peace

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JumpinJackOLantern
I was sick of Satisfaction by the end of the summer of 1965. Never liked HTW or Brown Sugar.

? ? ? ?

"No Anchovies, Please"

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Naturalust
Amazing that they can even play some of those tunes as many times as they have in the past. It's got to be slightly unfulfilling for them to do it again and again and again.

I mean I'm sick of playing some of the Stones songs I play. I would be excited to see them REALLY screw around with the melodies, arrangements, tempos, etc to try to make them more interesting to play and listen to at this point. Of course that is risky when they are thinking "legacy".

I would also love to see a middle section where they all play acoustic instruments, sing harmonies and sit on stools. peace

i hate this band. attacktrousers, or no....

Why many of you don't wanna hear their"Warholes" at concerts?

Sticky Fingers and Love You Live" Warholes" are Great!

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runaway
Why many of you don't wanna hear their"Warholes" at concerts?

Sticky Fingers and Love You Live" Warholes" are Great!

what about the let it bleed warholes? or some of those lovely 60's warholes?

I like war horse radish sauce. I love to dip my prime rib in it, and by prime rib, I mean prime rib, and by war horse radish sauce, I mean horseradish sauce.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-18 22:03 by Max'sKansasCity.

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StonesTod

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runaway
Why many of you don't wanna hear their"Warholes" at concerts?

Sticky Fingers and Love You Live" Warholes" are Great!

what about the let it bleed warholes? or some of those lovely 60's warholes?

Yeay so many great RS Warholes around since Sixties......hundreds

Andy made some cool covers!

i think everyone might have a SLIGHTLY different opinion of 'warhorse'

for me its BS, JJF, SFTD, OR&R, satisfaction, miss you, SFM, start me up (never liked that song much) HTW, you got me rockin (crummy song) etc; heard em all too many times and so much better, i'd rather be surprised at this point

i'd take SFM over most of the other war horses, personally, or rip this joint

any keith vocal, thanks but no thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-12-18 22:57 by pinkfloydthebarber.

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pinkfloydthebarber
i think everyone might have a SLIGHTLY different opinion of 'warhorse'

no matter...we've long-since moved off of warhorse and onto the long-awaited public debate of their warholes.