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TimeIs
Does anyone know who's playing bass?

Keith, Ronnie and Mick don't and can't play like that. Don Was can't either. It must be...


Darryl.

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big4
I just listened to the last three Stones singles=PMS, NSP and now Doom. All I can say is that Doom combined with ABB and the four 2002 tracks show that, for better or worse, the band has attempted to redefine their sound for the digital age. There is a mechanical sound to all their 2000's material, that reflects the Pro Tools era.

Although they've stripped down their sound to an almost garage-rock aesthetic, that attempt is undercut by them relying too much on technology in the recording and mixing process (not helped at all by the ridiculous "brickwalling" labels use nowadays). Despite their sparse output in the 21st century, the 2000's Stones have a distinctly different sound than the 20th century model. "Doom And Gloom" is the apex of this so far, particularly the lyric version.

The sad part is that Mick didn't really have to go so far to redefine the essence of the band's sound. The qualities and subtleties which made Plundered as well as No Spare Parts Stones songs are still appreciated by music fans and bands. Doom And Gloom is like Mick's "One Last Shot" at a hit and he's tried so hard to make it that, and the band sound current, that he's lost the simple ingredients that makes a Stones song. Which is that subtle interplay between the various instruments, the slightly off-beat rhythm and the rich sound of the instruments in the mix as well as groove. None of those things are present in Doom And Gloom, it's dance song you can't dance to! And for the most part, that applies to the Stones recorded 21st century output.

On it's own, Doom And Gloom isn't a bad song but despite having the ingredients (harp, organ, guitars, drums, defiant vocals) which has helped define the Stones sound it sounds nothing like anything they've done before. And that necessarily isn't a good thing.

The Twenty Hundreds, for the most part, have not been nice to the Rolling Stones by any means other than making a ton of money on their two tours. Brickwalling the entire 1971-1997 catalogue didn't help via UMG. Hearing some leftover Exile and Some Girls tracks was the highlight of the end and beginning of the first two decades of the Twenty Hundreds. We have a few years to go yet for this second decade so... Doom And Gloom continues exactly what you described in your first paragraph. And as far as that point goes, with it being what it is, it's as good as we're gonna get. What that means I dunno. I like the tune but overall it's quite generic Stones. Stones By Numbers. The Rote Stones. So... but it's new. OK fine, these gramps can rock. Woo hoo! If Mick works better brickwalled well then there you go.

But yeah. Yer right.

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lunar!!!
..it's only doom and gloom but.....well, you know.. nobody does a track like this better than the Stones....jamming, fun, lightweight, meaningless, meat and potatoes rock and roll with attitude and a bit of swagger. Not gonna change the world but a welcome relief to the avalanche of pure $#@%^& out there these days....and i like it...

The whole reason I liked the Stones was that they weren't just meat and potatoes R&R with attitude - Freaking Foreigner could pull that off - they were a swinging blues band that played rock and blues and country and soul and gospel, and wrote killer songs. Something like that would have been welcome relief, not this Apple Garage Band excercise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 06:01 by 71Tele.

Never figured you for being a Foreigner fan tele, but I guess I have heard stranger things.... btw- I think they kind of suck... so again we disagree.

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Max'sKansasCity
Never figured you for being a Foreigner fan tele, but I guess I have heard stranger things.... btw- I think they kind of suck... so again we disagree.

I hate Foreigner. It's dumbass white rock music for 14 year old boys. My point was that the Stones never have been that. This drum sound though, is the most un-Stoneslike thing I have ever heard. I don't know if it's a drum machine, the Stones entering the "digital age" (as one poster put it) or whether poor Charlie was made to play along to Mick's existing demo track, but it's awful. It's mere "rock" (rather than rock & roll) which from me is about the worst thing I can say about it. At least even on the weakest material there was that beat, now they've taken that away too. It's as if the band I loved has been dismantled gradually piece by piece: First, Bill's bass, then the quality songwriting, now even the very feel of the rhythm. All we're left with is Sir Mick's latest pastiche of mediocrity very high in the mix, while a cut-and-paste version of the old open-G plays beneath it. I am sure that Keith, Ronnie and Charlie are technically on it - somewhere - but this is no Rolling Stones track.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 06:16 by 71Tele.

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71Tele

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Max'sKansasCity
Never figured you for being a Foreigner fan tele, but I guess I have heard stranger things.... btw- I think they kind of suck... so again we disagree.

I hate Foreigner. It's dumbass white rock music for 14 year old boys. My point was that the Stones never have been that. This drum sound though, is the most un-Stoneslike thing I have ever heard. I don't know if it's a drum machine, the Stones entering the "digital age" (as one poster put it) or whether poor Charlie was made to play along to Mick's existing demo track, but it's awful. It's mere "rock" (rather than rock & roll) which from me is about the worst thing I can say about it. At least even on the weakest material there was that beat, now they've taken that away too.

Didn't Foreigner do that song 'Motorin'' or whatever it's called? Goddamn shit song.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 06:33 by WeLoveToPlayTheBlues.

It's boring. Maybe having Wyman there would have made it swing better. Who knows? As Stanley Kubrick said "to be boring is the worst sin of all," and that's what it is.

Sometimes this board is crazier than that cheerleading nut that just recently quit posting around here.

Let me see if I follow: Mick's the bad guy now, and we won't be happy unless we get a song that sounds like a deep cut from Main Offender. I guess the secret to IORR popularity amongst members of the Stones is to stay out of the limelight. Bill and Mick Taylor would be well advised to stay away if they want to keep their reputations intact.

I guess the era of Keith-bashing is over (at least until his song comes out).

Come on! This song is a shout-out to IORR.org! Doom and Gloom! Yeah!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 06:43 by Sipuncula.

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Sipuncula
Sometimes this board is crazier than that cheerleading nut that just recently quit posting around here.

Let me see if I follow: Mick's the bad guy now, and we won't be happy unless we get a song that sounds like a deep cut from Main Offender. I guess the secret to IORR popularity amongst members of the Stones is to stay out of the limelight. Bill and Mick Taylor would be well advised to stay away if they want to keep their reputations intact.

I guess the era of Keith-bashing is over (at least until his song comes out).

Yup... that about sums it up... and that is sage advice for Bill and Mick T.. stay out of the way, let the myth take care of it.

I should clarify... That sums it up for some here who, no matter what comes out of the Stones studio, is not going to like it and they will gleefully piss all over it, it is what they do. Others, like me, am not so critical... its Only Rock and Roll.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 08:41 by Max'sKansasCity.

I think its sad.

The so-called fanbase are actually saying to the Stones, they should have stayed out of the studio and should not have recorded this song.

People are complaining about the sound. Well, guess what, it's not 1978 anymore. The Stones have moved on in contrast to their so-called fans, who still thinks they are gonna sound like they did 40 years ago.

Listen to the iTunes version of this song. Its all there. Played by real.
And for the Radio Mix of this, well if you are gonna get played nowadays, you must upgrade.

Respect to the Stones for making one version for the general public and one to their fans. Oh, wait forget the last mentioned. The fans doesnt listen anyway...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 08:23 by Blueranger.

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Blueranger
I think its sad.

The so-called fanbase are actually saying to the Stones, they should have stayed out of the studio and should not have recorded this song.

People are complaining about the sound. Well, guess what, it's not 1978 anymore. The Stones have moved on in contrast to their so-called fans, who still thinks they are gonna sound like they did 40 years ago.

Listen to the iTunes version of this song. Its all there. Played by real.
And for the Radio Mix of this, well if you are gonna get played nowadays, you must upgrade.

Respect to the Stones for making one version for the general public and one to their fans. Oh, wait forget the last mentioned. The fans doesnt listen anyway...

That's right. If we don't think everything the Stones do is brilliant, we are "so-called fans"...an argument that is as lazy and idiotic as it is tiresome.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 08:30 by 71Tele.

The best thing about "Gloom and Doom" is that it put a temporary stop to all those Chuck Leavell threads.

g&d can rock but can't roll!
ciao
m.

The radio version is imo way better than the iTunes-version.

On the latter, Mick's vocals are way too high in the mix, and harp and organ sounded weird, after listening numerous times to the radio version.

There is also something about the flow of the track that sounds odd on the album version - like some cool stuff just was cut off the track.

The radio version has Mick's voice as an important ingredient to the song, instead of yelling all over the music, like it is on the iTunes version.

The drums are weird on both versions, imo.

[www.youtube.com]

I just watched the video of Doom and Gloom and I think the song Rocks,

Feel The Fear
And Do It Anyway

Surprised to say that so far I prefer the Radio Mix. It has a lot to do with the vocal being more submerged. It's also more dynamic.

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71Tele

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Max'sKansasCity
Never figured you for being a Foreigner fan tele, but I guess I have heard stranger things.... btw- I think they kind of suck... so again we disagree.

I hate Foreigner. It's dumbass white rock music for 14 year old boys. My point was that the Stones never have been that. This drum sound though, is the most un-Stoneslike thing I have ever heard. I don't know if it's a drum machine, the Stones entering the "digital age" (as one poster put it) or whether poor Charlie was made to play along to Mick's existing demo track, but it's awful. It's mere "rock" (rather than rock & roll) which from me is about the worst thing I can say about it. At least even on the weakest material there was that beat, now they've taken that away too. It's as if the band I loved has been dismantled gradually piece by piece: First, Bill's bass, then the quality songwriting, now even the very feel of the rhythm. All we're left with is Sir Mick's latest pastiche of mediocrity very high in the mix, while a cut-and-paste version of the old open-G plays beneath it. I am sure that Keith, Ronnie and Charlie are technically on it - somewhere - but this is no Rolling Stones track.

And this is a dumbass white rock music for 14 year olds. No more no less. The lyrics are BS words that sound rock n roll when Mick tries very hard to sound young and angry.

Fellow iorrians, you cannot possibly call this a great track or even good. I know we're not supposed to compare the new songs to older glories but let me make a point here. Mick CAN sing with emotion and they can play with emotion, held back, less is more etc.

If or when a band changes its style and attitude, fine, but if the change is just a compromise (a lazy one) then why bother changing at all. In other words, maybe it's time for Mick to write something real and to sing something real. To calm down and think before he enters the studio. Just once really listen to some 1972 boot of YCAGWYW or Love in Vain and say, hey that's me singing.

This new song sounds like something that Per Gessle of Roxette would be proud of. Or some early 90s European band that tried to sound retro American.

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Blueranger
I think its sad.

The so-called fanbase are actually saying to the Stones, they should have stayed out of the studio and should not have recorded this song.

People are complaining about the sound. Well, guess what, it's not 1978 anymore. The Stones have moved on in contrast to their so-called fans, who still thinks they are gonna sound like they did 40 years ago.

Listen to the iTunes version of this song. Its all there. Played by real.
And for the Radio Mix of this, well if you are gonna get played nowadays, you must upgrade.

Respect to the Stones for making one version for the general public and one to their fans. Oh, wait forget the last mentioned. The fans doesnt listen anyway...

What? No the fans say enter the studio but have some idea of why you wanna record a new track. Create something.

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Blueranger

People are complaining about the sound. Well, guess what, it's not 1978 anymore. The Stones have moved on in contrast to their so-called fans, who still thinks they are gonna sound like they did 40 years ago.

Listen to ZZ Tops' La Futura. It's from 2012, it's their best record in their carreer, sounding completely contemporary AND completeley like they recorded it in 1973. It's fabulous.

Mathijs

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Redhotcarpet

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71Tele

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Max'sKansasCity
Never figured you for being a Foreigner fan tele, but I guess I have heard stranger things.... btw- I think they kind of suck... so again we disagree.

I hate Foreigner. It's dumbass white rock music for 14 year old boys. My point was that the Stones never have been that. This drum sound though, is the most un-Stoneslike thing I have ever heard. I don't know if it's a drum machine, the Stones entering the "digital age" (as one poster put it) or whether poor Charlie was made to play along to Mick's existing demo track, but it's awful. It's mere "rock" (rather than rock & roll) which from me is about the worst thing I can say about it. At least even on the weakest material there was that beat, now they've taken that away too. It's as if the band I loved has been dismantled gradually piece by piece: First, Bill's bass, then the quality songwriting, now even the very feel of the rhythm. All we're left with is Sir Mick's latest pastiche of mediocrity very high in the mix, while a cut-and-paste version of the old open-G plays beneath it. I am sure that Keith, Ronnie and Charlie are technically on it - somewhere - but this is no Rolling Stones track.

And this is a dumbass white rock music for 14 year olds. No more no less. The lyrics are BS words that sound rock n roll when Mick tries very hard to sound young and angry.

Fellow iorrians, you cannot possibly call this a great track or even good. I know we're not supposed to compare the new songs to older glories but let me make a point here. Mick CAN sing with emotion and they can play with emotion, held back, less is more etc.

If or when a band changes its style and attitude, fine, but if the change is just a compromise (a lazy one) then why bother changing at all. In other words, maybe it's time for Mick to write something real and to sing something real. To calm down and think before he enters the studio. Just once really listen to some 1972 boot of YCAGWYW or Love in Vain and say, hey that's me singing.

This new song sounds like something that Per Gessle of Roxette would be proud of. Or some early 90s European band that tried to sound retro American.

The lyrics are cool, not necessarily good, like on many good Stones tracks.

Mick sounds awesome, and PLEASE keep Gessle out of this!

This is a good rock'n'roll-track, but I can see that many fans will have a beef with the dance-drums on it.

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Mathijs

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Blueranger

People are complaining about the sound. Well, guess what, it's not 1978 anymore. The Stones have moved on in contrast to their so-called fans, who still thinks they are gonna sound like they did 40 years ago.

Listen to ZZ Tops' La Futura. It's from 2012, it's their best record in their carreer, sounding completely almost contemporary AND completeley almostlike they recorded it in 1973 1979. It's fabulous.

Mathijs

They would have had to record and mix it analog to obtain this, and clearly they didn't.

IMO, La Futura is good, but it isn't even better than what the Stones have come up with now. I will still put on Jesus Has Left Chicago...

Songs about shooting Zombies are my favorite songs.

Frackin for oil is a bonus.

I think the lyrics are good.

It's not a bad song at all. I think it will work tremendously well live.

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big4

On it's own, Doom And Gloom isn't a bad song but despite having the ingredients (harp, organ, guitars, drums, defiant vocals) which has helped define the Stones sound it sounds nothing like anything they've done before. And that necessarily isn't a good thing.

Funnily, I would say the reverse - the song is rather mediocre, and I am welcoming The Stones to do 'something different' in soundwise.

I guess the thing is that I have had enough of the retro version of 'classical' Stones sound as it is presented in VOODOO LOUNGE, most of BRIDGES TO BABYLON, FORTY LICKS cuts and A BIGGER BANG. To me that is like a studio version of the Vegas concept. Through the motions. The idea of 'groove' or whatever the term was used in this thread, is as wishful, romantical and mythical idea as that of "ancient art of weaving" in concert surroundings. I still remeber hearing "You Got Me Rocking" and "I Go Wild" for the first time and understanding then that the classic Stones groove is a thing of the past; now it is almsot just another ordinary rock and roll band, which emphasizes the separate guitars, drums etc. as boringly as any next band. To me ears it was like whoring the very essence of the band, or, to use the right term, going cheap. I suppose I have never quite rediscovered of that.

Now listening the new cut a day after, I find the song actually better than I concluded yesterday. Yeah, it is totally irrelevant and useless in every way - they don't have anything to add to what they've said so many times and better in the past - but if one accepts those terms - as I think anyone still following the band should do - it is rather pleasing listening experience. Personally I think it is surprisingly better than I thought (based on the material I listed above).

Supposedly it is a Jagger show. I think Jagger loves the modern technology, which suits well to his own working methods: quick and effective (and cheap), and no need for endless jamming in the studio. I guess he enjoyed quite a lot doing the EXILE and SOME GIRLS projects, where he was the master mind in everything. And he most probably continues that working method here as well; the rest of the band are just invited to put their mark to the already existing backing track. Or that it is, as it sounds like. That's alright with me; I don't care how the track was created - it is the results that only matter.

Now - after having a good sleep - the features that might sound most shocking yesterday, seem to find their natural place. I still like, as I did yesterday, the rhythm track - be it a drum machice, hand clapping and Charlie; fooling around with rhytms has always been a kind of charm of the Stones, and I am happy they are brave enough to do something 'out of the box' - most definitively it is the radio mix that is my favourite version. Never had problems with "Undercover of The Night" either in that sense either.

Harder case was the massive ZZ Toppian guitar part - Jagger, right? - which was radically different than anything we have haerd for ages, or ever. This seems to drive some people mad here - a "hard rock band"! Yeah, I can see the point in criticism there, and reminds me something of the unnaturalness of "One Hit" at the time. But I think that 'oddity' is actually a charm of this track. It is cheap and everything, but I am sure it works like hell in a dance floor in juicing the hectic rhythm. This has always been a dance band - making people's asses move. And going for 'hard rock' - well that actually happened in the very sec when Jagger hammered those opening chords to "Sway" - even though people don't seem to recognize that very often. "Out of the box" feature again. Works much better than the forced riffings of many of their latter works. Damn, if Keith can not come up any clever riff these days, what can we do? Let us re-listen MAIN OFFENDER and VOODOO LOUNGE again and again, then.

Jagger's shouted vocals are melodically as one-dimensional as they can be, but I like that little edge in his voice he has there. The voice with all its manouvres is a walking cliche, but damn that is a masterpiece of its own. I mean, if a man has a trademark, instrumental voice like that, go ahead and share it with us! I guess going through the archice projects - especially EXILE - did good for Mick. There is more sharpness in it than, for example, in many A BIGGER BANG songs, especially "Rough Justice". Of course, I would have welcomed a bit richier melody and some catchy hooks, but this will do as well.

Okay, I might sound too positive and I might have really rosey glasses here, but I think this song very well serves its function. Taken the context - band haven't been a working band for ages, having nothing to say, spending some days in studio - it is better than I expected for. Actually much better. Totally forgettable in some yaers to go by, but let us enjoy while it lasts.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 10:48 by Doxa.

Mathijs, you're dead right!
La Futura is one of ZZtop best efforts: it sounds fresh and well produced. It reaaly rocks!
I think D&G radio edit , on the contrary, sounds dated, so 80's, very flat.
Way far better though not a masterpiece the Itunes version that sounds like a Stones song.
ciao
m.

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Jagger's shouted vocals are melodically as one-dimensional as they can be, but I like that little edge in his voice he has there.

He sounds (intentionally) slightly drunk and deranged.

I think it's a great effort.

I usually generally don't like Mick's post Undercover vocals, but he's good here.

Just a note to Finnish people (totally irrelevant to any other):

Jengi kuulee tuossa ränttätänttäriffissä ZZ Toppia, ja mikä ettei, mut hitto vie, minun korviini siinä oli jotain enemmänkin tuttua. Tsekatkaapa Hurriganesin vanha "Crazy Days" raina. Luulen että suuri Stones-diggari Ile Kallio myhäilee tyytyväisesnä...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 11:15 by Doxa.

Meanwhile, outside of angsty iorr-tell me a whole lotta people are liking the song. The contrast between comments here and those on youtube are interesting.

I must admit it is sounding better to my ears with each listen. The Doom and Gloom single(Radio Mix) kicks the arse of their tired vegas era sound and gives us something fresh and livley!!!

For me the pro's are that it has a great Mick vocal, the track has energy and life(Radio Edit), the rhythm is modern so to speak, but has a nod and a wink to past tracks such as Street Fighting Man, Brown Sugar.

Were they not so old and some what forever bound to their historic past I'd say a track such as this could act as a bridge to a whole new sound for the stones.

I agree His Majesty.

People are liking this.

Anyway as a side note... for the anally retentive people like myself, this song is recorded at 132 BPM.

That's slightly faster than Brown Sugar (128).

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His Majesty
Meanwhile, outside of angsty iorr-tell me a whole lotta people are liking the song. The contrast between comments here and those on youtube are interesting.

I must admit it is sounding better to my ears with each listen. The Doom and Gloom single(Radio Mix) kicks the arse of their tired vegas era sound and gives us something fresh and livley!!!

For me the pro's are that it has a great Mick vocal, the track has energy and life(Radio Edit), the rhythm is modern so to speak, but has a nod and a wink to past tracks such as Street Fighting Man, Brown Sugar.

Were they not so old and some what forever bound to their historic past I'd say a track such as this could act as a bridge to a whole new sound for the stones.

The reviews and reactions have been fantastic so far!

The conflict between the terribly old-fashion-sounding guitars (which I love dearly, of course) and the more contemporary dance-drum/percussion-sound is genius. What sounds lifeless on the iTunes-version sounds vital and energetic on the radio version.