Tell Me :
Talk
I sincerely hope that you are being cynical here.
If Roberts is the president of the San Francisco Hells Angels, which chapter did Sonny Barger belong to? Was he president, too?
You are doing a lot of projecting here.
I might say it to his face if it was just him and me. But you know being an Angel means he doesn't do one on ones.
The Great Alan Passaro? I guess I will check the dictionary for the meaning of the word great..I guess I thought it meant something else.
Yeah we know all about it. Angels can attack people with pool cues and go around roughing up anybody they want ( as long as its not one on one ) but if someone pulls a gun because he is being roughed up by numerous Angels then that guy is at fault..Angel logic.
The reason they never hurt the Stones later is because there was really no need for it, and the Stones could hire enough security to make it a fair fight, something the Angels always shy away from..More fun just beating up 19 year old hippies with a 5 on 1 advantage..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-10 00:52 by stanlove.
So you are saying they were taking on 300,000? LOL..We know exactly what there were doing. Ganging up on people 5 on 1. Seeing that nobody else wanted to fight really emboldened the tough guys with leather on.
That was not brought out at the trial and its obviously nonsense. They once again ganged up on a guy and he pulled a gun to try to keep them away. This is when Douchebag and his buddies keep stomping on him even after taking the gun.Yeah it was all about them protecting the crowd.
The Ottawa Citizen (Canada)
October 26th 1970
The Gadsden Times (AL)
January 14th 1971
You can stop wasting time on the definition of great now... They proved Passaro didn't kill Hunter anyways.
The News & Courier (SC)
January 11th 1971
I never understood why the angels would be mad at The stones for. They were paid their $500 worth of beer.
The Glasgow Herald (Scotland)
March 4th 1983
The Evening News (NY)
March 15th 1983
This whole thing was absolute nonsense!!! Amazing that the US Government has so much time to waste no wonder nothing ever gets done.
That's not how trials work. They didn't prove Passaro didn't kill Hunter.
Funny Hunter didn't have any problems with anyone else in a crowd of 300 thousand, but the Angels were having trouble with a lot of people..Huh..Gee I wonder what happened.
And the Angles already assaulted Hunter before he pulled the gun.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-10 06:37 by stanlove.
Lem Motlow, thank you for your note - that's a very good suggestion.
Indeed. It was (and is), and, yeah, it still does...very much so. The premise of the film Altamont 360°, at its
core really, is there isn't even just 2 sides. From the outset it struck me that often it's been framed up as 2 main
stories, pitted against one another, and even tho that's a compelling uber-charged "narrative" I've always felt
it's extremely limited, and sort of brittle. Altamont was a dark day for everyone. It was during my first interview
with bodyguard Tony Funches for "The Night Before Altamont" radio documentary, when the idea of a 360° treatment
came up. I mentioned to Tony I wanted to make the larger film, that encompasses more complexity and nuance
of the whole Altamont saga---because these 2-3 dominant narratives just don't mesh up, and sometimes outright
contradict each other. And I don't mean lies--I mean fully formed convictions, about what was going down. For an
inordinate portion of my life (I admit) I've tossed around the question of how that could be--how could A be true
if B was true--when A and B are opposites? As well as the "simple" question about Altamont of: How Did This
Happen? beyond the obvious. It was Tony who said "It sounds like Roshomon,"
and he's right.
Immediately the vision for the film cemented, after a trillion years of having Altamont on one of the back burners of my
mind, always sort of simmering back there, seeking The Truth all these years. And there is was: there are multiple truths.
There are multiple, fully formed realities. The story of Altamont can never be linear. There's 360° and many facets to
this story. And instead of trying to neatly line them up and Make Sense of it, with one Story, I realized these disparate
perspectives must be allowed to represent themselves and stand on their own. I don't even mean: balanced impartial and
fair. I mean, these voices and stories must be heard in as much fullness as possible--as jagged as they may be.
Particularly is the stories come from a place of place of truth and integrity.
So, I'm not interested in some kind of an expose about "What Really Happened"...or digging through shit
and putting anyone on trial. Because I have taken turns putting various characters on trial over the years,
and it's just far more involved and complex than all that. I think part of the reason it is so emotionally charged---for
those directly involved, as you may know; as well as for those of us who weren't but who care about this
story, for myriad reasons---is how unsatisfying and complicated it is, and objectively what a godforsaken focking
surreal event it turned out to be (tho, actually, for some I've spoken with, it was a blast), and the deep damage
it did to: reputations, relationships, lives, and perceptions of those involved AND lasting negative ripple
effects on any of those who chose to exist outside the "Establishment" of the time, and more.
Sorry to go on, but--
Albert Maysles (who, along with brother David, as you know, directed and produced Gimme Shelter) and I
spoke for 4.5 hours at his place in New York about all the above. He is in complete agreement this needs to be
re-visited and I'm the one to do it, and he'll help however he can.
I certainly never said that.
And unless Bill Fritsch has the ability to be in 2 places at once...since he was sitting on the side of the stage...it would not appear that it was he who knocked out Marty Balin.
If in doubt...when Paul Kantner announces someone has punched out his brother thank you very much, and
then Sweet William takes the mic, Paul Kantner says to William [not a direct quote], "I'm not talking to
you--I'm talkin to them," to which William rejoins "You're talking to my PEOPLE." If Bill had punched
out Marty Balin, Paul Kantner would have known that, since the 2 of them, all of them, knew each other well enough.
Yeah, it would've just added to the crazy BUT...
(1) The Rolling Stones would not have been aware of who punched out Marty Balin. Among other things, that
incident happened before the Stones got there. Other than Keith--who spent the night before at Altamont--the Stones
didn't arrive at Altamont until after 3pm. (I will get tighter confirmation of exact times, but this is my preliminary
estimate; Bill Wyman likely did not arrive at Altamont until, from my estimate, after 4pm)
AND...
2. They were not posing with "that guy" (and that guy is Bill Fritsch). They were "backstage." Keith, Stanley
Booth, and Gram Parsons were sitting on the ground in front of Mick and Charlie--you can see them in the lower
right corner of that photo. Ethan Russell took the shot, by the way--he was along with the Stones for the tour.
In that photo, they are discussing the advisability of taking the stage--sooner rather.
I have it, but not scanned. It's a great interview. Rolling Stone Magazine, August 1971, interview by
Robert Greenfield. I am trying to contact Robert Greenfield, btw, in case anyone can advise me to most direct
way to do that.
- swiss
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-11 06:17 by swiss.
AMazing, GS1978 - thanks! It's gratifying to see Rolling Stone has been adding great archival content the
just in the past months. And this one is just killer diller.
- swiss
Out of curiosity, which members of the "family" did you know.
Feel free to share any recollections about them.
but you didnt fail to let us know that you knew them now did you? how very los angeles of you-
i'm just messin with ya stonesrule,you know i think you're the best.did you work for the stones during altamont? i know you were there not much after-no? maybe you could have a chat with swiss and put in a bit of your perspective.
thats the key really-can you get your hands on that extra footage that they have?
i'm not sure punching a member of the jefferson airplane is really a bad thing,after what they morphed into in the 1980's i think the whole band deserved the wack-a-mole treatment.
do you know bill fritsch? is he still around? i met chuck zito a few years ago and he was doing some movie and had mickey rourke with him,bill seemed to be like an early version of chuck- he was in the angels but he hung out with actors,musicians and artists alot.i've heard bill was friends with janis joplin and alot of those san fran people, which as you said,brings a whole other dimension to the onstage thing between paul kantner and him.
keep that name altamont 360 no matter what-its perfect.you start talking about one aspect of this and it takes off in every direction-
the great alan passaro died in 1985 and still nobody is sure exactly what happened to him-he was found floating in a river with $10,000 on him and his black bmw was sitting with the keys still in it.call me crazy but i think the boy may have been doing something that didnt involve a church group.but there you go,another sub-plot.
its also great that you're talking with tony funches.i never even knew big tony was there,i thought he was with jim morrison at the time...
That is what happens when you do alot of Acid, Drink all day and are strangeled and twisted up with alot of anger.....that is exactly what that is all about.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-12 00:47 by 2120Wolf.
Great from Altamont......to Chuckies Crew !!!!
It is pretty key. I'm thankful that everyone I've reached out to so far has been incredibly helpful and cooperative
(and has agreed to be interviewed, except Keith...yet).
Albert Maysles and my conversations have been extraordinary, So----regarding the footage----I have been granted full
access to all Gimme Shelter [and other] materials.
However, all Maysles Brothers' materials have been shipped to another organization to be preserved and "processed,"
to become a formal Archive. The Gimme Shelter outtakes [many many of them - Al and I discussed them] are only now
beginning to begin archival processing. Being an archivist myself, I can say when archivists get their hands on a
"collection" of this sort, there is a period of time when no one can access the archival objects except the achivists
directly involved with the archival processing. So, we will see.
Because I am still wrapping up "The Night Before Altamont" radio documentary, it's a non-issue for now.
LOL - notwithstanding, I believe someone else can take the credit or blame for that.
Bill Fritsch is still alive. I'm honored to have spent time with him recently, and hope to again soon.
I don't know Chuck Vito, or what he's like, but I believe it's be accurate to say Bill Fritsch didn't "hang around with"
actors, musicians, artists, as much as being an artist in his own right (poet), as well as a lot of other descriptors.
He was friends with those San Fran people, because he is one of those San Fran people. He was a "Digger,"
with Emmett Grogan and Peter Coyote, before and while being a Hells Angels.
Here's Bill "Sweet William Tumbleweed" Fritsch, as a Digger, getting ready to speechify and read radical poetry at
San Francisco City Hall.
To some extent, all of the people attending something like Altamont were viewed as outcasts, outlaws, miscreants,
and reprobates in the eyes of the "straight world," the Establishment, in the mid- to late-60s. Even Sonny Barger was not
a total stranger to the hippie scene -- altho he also held radically different views from many members of the
counterculture on fundamental, practical and philosophical matters. You may have heard this story about him and Allen
Ginsberg (et al.) from The Guardian--
" Says Barger: 'We made it clear to the peaceniks, the cops and the rest of the country where we stood on the war. We dug it.' The attacks on the demonstrators led to what must have been one of the strangest peace talks of all time when Ken Kesey, author of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, brought poet Allen Ginsberg and writer Neal Cassady to Barger's Oakland home to try to avoid future confrontations. 'Ginsberg took out his Tibetan silver prayer bells and began to chant in an Eastern lotus position. I knew about Ginsberg and his flaky poetry but it was still a bit weird seeing a robed and bearded Jewish man meditating and chanting in my living room.' The meeting was successful and they all sat around together getting loaded to Bob Dylan's Gates of Eden. Hell, Sonny even 'dug that skinny little Joan Baez and I even liked her music' by the end of it all."
So, the dividing lines we would tend to draw now, are not exactly what they were at that time. Not claiming that
everyone --i.e., all "freaks"-- was part of one big seamless love-pod, or even that the Oakland Hells Angels and
San Francisco Hells Angels, for example, were identical in their approaches and relationship to the "counterculture."
However, the San Francisco Hells Angels did play a similar role at the Human Be-In (Jan. 1967) as they did at Altamont.
My point being the presense of the Hells Angels at Altamont isn't as inconfruous as would seem to some people
today [not iorrans - we might tend to be aware of the background and circumstances around Altamont a bit better
than the average bear.
Here's Freewheelin' Frank at the Human Be-In.
Incidentally, if you haven't read his book, as narrated to poet Michael McClure, a friend of Freewheelin' Frank,
you might enjoy it: Freewheelin Frank: Secretary of the Angels
Thanks--I appreciate that feedback.
Not my subplot, but there's plenty to go around -- maybe that will be your film
Tony signed on with the Stones as a bodyguard from the time they landed in LA in September 1969, working on
Let It Bleed, through Altamont. And then again during the 1972 tour, and, I believe the next 2 Stones' US tours.
He was with Jim 1970-71.
ps--stonesrule and I spoke on the phone one time about Altamont and other matters - we're good for now.
- swiss
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-17 09:52 by swiss.
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Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: April 9, 2014 23:02
Quote
lem motlow
it wasnt until the great alan passaro took down the little gun wielding meth head
I sincerely hope that you are being cynical here.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 9, 2014 23:17
i meant it exactly the way it was written-
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
nightskyman
()
Date: April 10, 2014 00:19
Quote
swissQuote
stanlove
I was looking at Altamonte on google and this thread came up.
I love what happened to angles and looked into this.
Can't wait for your documentary..
Do you think the guy glaring at Jagger on stage is Roberts?
thanks, stanlove - when you say "angles," do you mean angles of stories? or "Hells Angels"?
I believe the man on stage with short hair---who scrutinizes how close the freaking out man is getting to Mick, yanks him away from Mick, and firmly but gently lowers him off the stage [check it out - that's one very strong fellow]---to be Bob Roberts, president of the San Francisco Hells Angels MC.
- swiss
If Roberts is the president of the San Francisco Hells Angels, which chapter did Sonny Barger belong to? Was he president, too?
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: April 10, 2014 00:37
Quote
lem motlow
the guy in the photo is indeed bob roberts.there are comments here saying he's looking at mick in disgust and also in some sort of gay way -you're either not paying attention to the movie or doing what psychologists call "projecting"-i will promise you one thing,you wouldnt have said it to his face.
it wasnt until the great alan passaro took down the little gun wielding meth head that things boiled over.
the reason that they never hurt the stones later is that sonny stayed pissed at them in public but privately they worked it out.i heard stories of sonny and jagger doing coke together in the backroom of a club in new york during the 1970's.
You are doing a lot of projecting here.
I might say it to his face if it was just him and me. But you know being an Angel means he doesn't do one on ones.
The Great Alan Passaro? I guess I will check the dictionary for the meaning of the word great..I guess I thought it meant something else.
Yeah we know all about it. Angels can attack people with pool cues and go around roughing up anybody they want ( as long as its not one on one ) but if someone pulls a gun because he is being roughed up by numerous Angels then that guy is at fault..Angel logic.
The reason they never hurt the Stones later is because there was really no need for it, and the Stones could hire enough security to make it a fair fight, something the Angels always shy away from..More fun just beating up 19 year old hippies with a 5 on 1 advantage..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-10 00:52 by stanlove.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 10, 2014 01:01
ok,just give me the total size of the crowd-300,000...500,000.ok how many hells angels were there? maybe 100? 200?
and they were armed with...pool cues?? so they waded into and started beating the shit out of a crowd of half a million people armed only with cue sticks?? yeah, what a bunch of pussies.
and yeah,a guy who takes out a nutcase who pulls a gun in a crowd that large and could possibly shoot either another fan or one of the rolling stones...a guy who didnt hesitate to get in a gunfight carrying only a knife-and won,is pretty damn great.
and by the way-it came out in the trial that poor little maradeth or whatever the fck his name was began starting shit with the angels first.typical gangbanger who thought he was tougher than he was.
and they were armed with...pool cues?? so they waded into and started beating the shit out of a crowd of half a million people armed only with cue sticks?? yeah, what a bunch of pussies.
and yeah,a guy who takes out a nutcase who pulls a gun in a crowd that large and could possibly shoot either another fan or one of the rolling stones...a guy who didnt hesitate to get in a gunfight carrying only a knife-and won,is pretty damn great.
and by the way-it came out in the trial that poor little maradeth or whatever the fck his name was began starting shit with the angels first.typical gangbanger who thought he was tougher than he was.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: April 10, 2014 01:11
Quote
lem motlow
ok,just give me the total size of the crowd-300,000...500,000.ok how many hells angels were there? maybe 100? 200?
and they were armed with...pool cues?? so they waded into and started beating the shit out of a crowd of half a million people armed only with cue sticks?? yeah, what a bunch of pussies.
and yeah,a guy who takes out a nutcase who pulls a gun in a crowd that large and could possibly shoot either another fan or one of the rolling stones...a guy who didnt hesitate to get in a gunfight carrying only a knife-and won,is pretty damn great.
and by the way-it came out in the trial that poor little maradeth or whatever the fck his name was began starting shit with the angels first.typical gangbanger who thought he was tougher than he was.
So you are saying they were taking on 300,000? LOL..We know exactly what there were doing. Ganging up on people 5 on 1. Seeing that nobody else wanted to fight really emboldened the tough guys with leather on.
That was not brought out at the trial and its obviously nonsense. They once again ganged up on a guy and he pulled a gun to try to keep them away. This is when Douchebag and his buddies keep stomping on him even after taking the gun.Yeah it was all about them protecting the crowd.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
Keef1966
()
Date: April 10, 2014 01:55
The Ottawa Citizen (Canada)
October 26th 1970
The Gadsden Times (AL)
January 14th 1971
You can stop wasting time on the definition of great now... They proved Passaro didn't kill Hunter anyways.
The News & Courier (SC)
January 11th 1971
I never understood why the angels would be mad at The stones for. They were paid their $500 worth of beer.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
Keef1966
()
Date: April 10, 2014 02:24
The Glasgow Herald (Scotland)
March 4th 1983
The Evening News (NY)
March 15th 1983
This whole thing was absolute nonsense!!! Amazing that the US Government has so much time to waste no wonder nothing ever gets done.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: April 10, 2014 02:31
Popcorn, anyone?
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
2000 LYFH
()
Date: April 10, 2014 05:36
Didn't want any trouble, just grooving to the sounds...
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: April 10, 2014 06:30
Quote
Keef1966
The Ottawa Citizen (Canada)
October 26th 1970
The Gadsden Times (AL)
January 14th 1971
You can stop wasting time on the definition of great now... They proved Passaro didn't kill Hunter anyways.
That's not how trials work. They didn't prove Passaro didn't kill Hunter.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: April 10, 2014 06:32
Quote
2000 LYFH
Didn't want any trouble, just grooving to the sounds...
Funny Hunter didn't have any problems with anyone else in a crowd of 300 thousand, but the Angels were having trouble with a lot of people..Huh..Gee I wonder what happened.
And the Angles already assaulted Hunter before he pulled the gun.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-10 06:37 by stanlove.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
jazzbass
()
Date: April 10, 2014 07:14
If the Angel had pulled the gun and been stabbed by a hippy, the sentiment would be he had it coming... and he would've. ... And Hunter did.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 11, 2014 00:03
SWISS-could you keep us updated on your project either in this thread or another sometime in the future?
this was a huge moment in the stones history and as you can see it still brings out strong feelings on both sides to this day,45 years after the incident.
also,do we know for sure if it was bill fritsch who punched out the guy from the airplane? if so the stones weren't showing much solidarity with their fellow musician by posing for pictures with the guy backstage-that photo just adds to the crazy.
and could someone find and print keiths take on the whole thing from the 1971 interview in rolling stone magazine,its still pretty fresh in his mind at that point -i have a copy of it and cant seem to find it anywhere.
this was a huge moment in the stones history and as you can see it still brings out strong feelings on both sides to this day,45 years after the incident.
also,do we know for sure if it was bill fritsch who punched out the guy from the airplane? if so the stones weren't showing much solidarity with their fellow musician by posing for pictures with the guy backstage-that photo just adds to the crazy.
and could someone find and print keiths take on the whole thing from the 1971 interview in rolling stone magazine,its still pretty fresh in his mind at that point -i have a copy of it and cant seem to find it anywhere.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
swiss
()
Date: April 11, 2014 05:28
Quote
lem motlow
SWISS-could you keep us updated on your project either in this thread or another sometime in the future?
Lem Motlow, thank you for your note - that's a very good suggestion.
Quote
lem motlow
this was a huge moment in the stones history and as you can see it still brings out strong feelings on both sides to this day,45 years after the incident.
Indeed. It was (and is), and, yeah, it still does...very much so. The premise of the film Altamont 360°, at its
core really, is there isn't even just 2 sides. From the outset it struck me that often it's been framed up as 2 main
stories, pitted against one another, and even tho that's a compelling uber-charged "narrative" I've always felt
it's extremely limited, and sort of brittle. Altamont was a dark day for everyone. It was during my first interview
with bodyguard Tony Funches for "The Night Before Altamont" radio documentary, when the idea of a 360° treatment
came up. I mentioned to Tony I wanted to make the larger film, that encompasses more complexity and nuance
of the whole Altamont saga---because these 2-3 dominant narratives just don't mesh up, and sometimes outright
contradict each other. And I don't mean lies--I mean fully formed convictions, about what was going down. For an
inordinate portion of my life (I admit) I've tossed around the question of how that could be--how could A be true
if B was true--when A and B are opposites? As well as the "simple" question about Altamont of: How Did This
Happen? beyond the obvious. It was Tony who said "It sounds like Roshomon,"
and he's right.
Immediately the vision for the film cemented, after a trillion years of having Altamont on one of the back burners of my
mind, always sort of simmering back there, seeking The Truth all these years. And there is was: there are multiple truths.
There are multiple, fully formed realities. The story of Altamont can never be linear. There's 360° and many facets to
this story. And instead of trying to neatly line them up and Make Sense of it, with one Story, I realized these disparate
perspectives must be allowed to represent themselves and stand on their own. I don't even mean: balanced impartial and
fair. I mean, these voices and stories must be heard in as much fullness as possible--as jagged as they may be.
Particularly is the stories come from a place of place of truth and integrity.
So, I'm not interested in some kind of an expose about "What Really Happened"...or digging through shit
and putting anyone on trial. Because I have taken turns putting various characters on trial over the years,
and it's just far more involved and complex than all that. I think part of the reason it is so emotionally charged---for
those directly involved, as you may know; as well as for those of us who weren't but who care about this
story, for myriad reasons---is how unsatisfying and complicated it is, and objectively what a godforsaken focking
surreal event it turned out to be (tho, actually, for some I've spoken with, it was a blast), and the deep damage
it did to: reputations, relationships, lives, and perceptions of those involved AND lasting negative ripple
effects on any of those who chose to exist outside the "Establishment" of the time, and more.
Sorry to go on, but--
Albert Maysles (who, along with brother David, as you know, directed and produced Gimme Shelter) and I
spoke for 4.5 hours at his place in New York about all the above. He is in complete agreement this needs to be
re-visited and I'm the one to do it, and he'll help however he can.
Quote
lem motlow
also,do we know for sure if it was bill fritsch who punched out the guy from the airplane?
I certainly never said that.
And unless Bill Fritsch has the ability to be in 2 places at once...since he was sitting on the side of the stage...it would not appear that it was he who knocked out Marty Balin.
If in doubt...when Paul Kantner announces someone has punched out his brother thank you very much, and
then Sweet William takes the mic, Paul Kantner says to William [not a direct quote], "I'm not talking to
you--I'm talkin to them," to which William rejoins "You're talking to my PEOPLE." If Bill had punched
out Marty Balin, Paul Kantner would have known that, since the 2 of them, all of them, knew each other well enough.
Quote
lem motlow
if so the stones weren't showing much solidarity with their fellow musician by posing for pictures with the guy backstage-that photo just adds to the crazy.
Yeah, it would've just added to the crazy BUT...
(1) The Rolling Stones would not have been aware of who punched out Marty Balin. Among other things, that
incident happened before the Stones got there. Other than Keith--who spent the night before at Altamont--the Stones
didn't arrive at Altamont until after 3pm. (I will get tighter confirmation of exact times, but this is my preliminary
estimate; Bill Wyman likely did not arrive at Altamont until, from my estimate, after 4pm)
AND...
2. They were not posing with "that guy" (and that guy is Bill Fritsch). They were "backstage." Keith, Stanley
Booth, and Gram Parsons were sitting on the ground in front of Mick and Charlie--you can see them in the lower
right corner of that photo. Ethan Russell took the shot, by the way--he was along with the Stones for the tour.
In that photo, they are discussing the advisability of taking the stage--sooner rather.
Quote
lem motlow
and could someone find and print keiths take on the whole thing from the 1971 interview in rolling stone magazine,its still pretty fresh in his mind at that point -i have a copy of it and cant seem to find it anywhere.
I have it, but not scanned. It's a great interview. Rolling Stone Magazine, August 1971, interview by
Robert Greenfield. I am trying to contact Robert Greenfield, btw, in case anyone can advise me to most direct
way to do that.
- swiss
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-11 06:17 by swiss.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
GS1978
()
Date: April 11, 2014 05:35
Quote
lem motlow
and could someone find and print keiths take on the whole thing from the 1971 interview in rolling stone magazine,its still pretty fresh in his mind at that point -i have a copy of it and cant seem to find it anywhere.
------------------
I have it, but not scanned. It's a great interview. Rolling Stone Magazine, August 1971, inteview by
Robert Greenfield.
- swiss
--------------------
[www.rollingstone.com]
lem motlow
and could someone find and print keiths take on the whole thing from the 1971 interview in rolling stone magazine,its still pretty fresh in his mind at that point -i have a copy of it and cant seem to find it anywhere.
------------------
I have it, but not scanned. It's a great interview. Rolling Stone Magazine, August 1971, inteview by
Robert Greenfield.
- swiss
--------------------
[www.rollingstone.com]
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
swiss
()
Date: April 11, 2014 05:41
AMazing, GS1978 - thanks! It's gratifying to see Rolling Stone has been adding great archival content the
just in the past months. And this one is just killer diller.
- swiss
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: April 11, 2014 07:31
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stonesrule
()
Date: April 11, 2014 20:33
Having grown up in Los Angeles and frequently visiting friends in San Francisco, I met a number of Hell's Angels including Sonny Barger..also knew several of the Manson "family" before they murdered some very good people at Terry Melcher's old house
Perhaps some of you find these characters intriguing but I never did...don't now.
Perhaps some of you find these characters intriguing but I never did...don't now.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
vudicus
()
Date: April 11, 2014 20:42
Quote
stonesrule
Having grown up in Los Angeles and frequently visiting friends in San Francisco, I met a number of Hell's Angels including Sonny Barger..also knew several of the Manson "family" before they murdered some very good people at Terry Melcher's old house
Perhaps some of you find these characters intriguing but I never did...don't now.
Out of curiosity, which members of the "family" did you know.
Feel free to share any recollections about them.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
vudicus
()
Date: April 11, 2014 20:48
Regarding the guy who knocked Marty Balin out.
If you watch the onstage fight during the Airplanes performance, it looks like Balin is knocked to the floor (near the drun kit) and one of the Angels hits downwards with his pool cue several times, possibly jabbing Marty with it.
I've often wondered if Marty went and confronted that guy when he jumps into the crowd below and maybe got knocked out then.
Also, just before Marty goes into the crowd, you see him throw his tambourine into the area where there is fighting. Maybe the tambourine hit an angel and he took revenge.
Just more speculation but there you go.
If you watch the onstage fight during the Airplanes performance, it looks like Balin is knocked to the floor (near the drun kit) and one of the Angels hits downwards with his pool cue several times, possibly jabbing Marty with it.
I've often wondered if Marty went and confronted that guy when he jumps into the crowd below and maybe got knocked out then.
Also, just before Marty goes into the crowd, you see him throw his tambourine into the area where there is fighting. Maybe the tambourine hit an angel and he took revenge.
Just more speculation but there you go.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 11, 2014 20:56
Quote
stonesrule
Having grown up in Los Angeles and frequently visiting friends in San Francisco, I met a number of Hell's Angels including Sonny Barger..also knew several of the Manson "family" before they murdered some very good people at Terry Melcher's old house
Perhaps some of you find these characters intriguing but I never did...don't now.
but you didnt fail to let us know that you knew them now did you? how very los angeles of you-
i'm just messin with ya stonesrule,you know i think you're the best.did you work for the stones during altamont? i know you were there not much after-no? maybe you could have a chat with swiss and put in a bit of your perspective.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
2000 LYFH
()
Date: April 11, 2014 21:10
Quote
vudicus
Regarding the guy who knocked Marty Balin out.
If you watch the onstage fight during the Airplanes performance, it looks like Balin is knocked to the floor (near the drun kit) and one of the Angels hits downwards with his pool cue several times, possibly jabbing Marty with it.
I've often wondered if Marty went and confronted that guy when he jumps into the crowd below and maybe got knocked out then.
Also, just before Marty goes into the crowd, you see him throw his tambourine into the area where there is fighting. Maybe the tambourine hit an angel and he took revenge.
Just more speculation but there you go.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
2000 LYFH
()
Date: April 11, 2014 21:18
In case anyone has not seen this before, some interesting photos from Robert Altman...
[www.altmanphoto.com]
[www.altmanphoto.com]
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
filstan
()
Date: April 11, 2014 21:33
Keith's comments to RS were straight up as it related to what went down at Altmont. He just called it like he saw it, experienced it. People need to remember that the Greenfield interview did with Keith for RS was a benchmark for Stones fans. Keith came off as a very well spoken, witty, articulate, and interesting person. Keith's stock rose quickly after that was published IMO. I still think that one rates as one of the best interviews ever published in RS.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: April 11, 2014 22:40
Quote
swiss
albert Maysles (who, along with brother David, as you know, directed and produced Gimme Shelter) and I
spoke for 4.5 hours at his place in New York about all the above. He is in complete agreement this needs to be
re-visited and I'm the one to do it, and he'll help however he can
thats the key really-can you get your hands on that extra footage that they have?
Quote
swiss
unless Bill Fritsch has the ability to be in 2 places at once...since he was sitting on the side of the stage...it would not appear that it was he who knocked out Marty Balin
i'm not sure punching a member of the jefferson airplane is really a bad thing,after what they morphed into in the 1980's i think the whole band deserved the wack-a-mole treatment.
do you know bill fritsch? is he still around? i met chuck zito a few years ago and he was doing some movie and had mickey rourke with him,bill seemed to be like an early version of chuck- he was in the angels but he hung out with actors,musicians and artists alot.i've heard bill was friends with janis joplin and alot of those san fran people, which as you said,brings a whole other dimension to the onstage thing between paul kantner and him.
keep that name altamont 360 no matter what-its perfect.you start talking about one aspect of this and it takes off in every direction-
the great alan passaro died in 1985 and still nobody is sure exactly what happened to him-he was found floating in a river with $10,000 on him and his black bmw was sitting with the keys still in it.call me crazy but i think the boy may have been doing something that didnt involve a church group.but there you go,another sub-plot.
its also great that you're talking with tony funches.i never even knew big tony was there,i thought he was with jim morrison at the time...
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
2120Wolf
()
Date: April 12, 2014 00:43
Quote
DiscoVolante
You know who. He's standing on stage during Under My Thumb, chewing his mouth with anger. He's furious, ready to kill someone. I don't think I've ever seen an angry face like that. Jagger's looking really frightened. Why is he so angry? The camera doesn't take focus off him for several minutes. Did he get his motor cykel destroyed? The camera never tells.
That is what happens when you do alot of Acid, Drink all day and are strangeled and twisted up with alot of anger.....that is exactly what that is all about.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-12 00:47 by 2120Wolf.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
2120Wolf
()
Date: April 12, 2014 00:45
Quote
vudicusQuote
stonesrule
Having grown up in Los Angeles and frequently visiting friends in San Francisco, I met a number of Hell's Angels including Sonny Barger..also knew several of the Manson "family" before they murdered some very good people at Terry Melcher's old house
Perhaps some of you find these characters intriguing but I never did...don't now.
Out of curiosity, which members of the "family" did you know.
Feel free to share any recollections about them.
Great from Altamont......to Chuckies Crew !!!!
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: April 12, 2014 01:48
<<i'm not sure punching a member of the jefferson airplane is really a bad thing,after what they morphed into in the 1980's>>
But the band went through 17 line-up changes between 1969 and 1985, by which time only Slick and Kantner remained from the Altamont line-up.
Opining that Marty Balin deserved to be punched in the face for what the band became after he left it in 1978 is absurd.
Here's what Marty Balin was doing while the Jefferson Starship were "finding their way back" in 1981.
But the band went through 17 line-up changes between 1969 and 1985, by which time only Slick and Kantner remained from the Altamont line-up.
Opining that Marty Balin deserved to be punched in the face for what the band became after he left it in 1978 is absurd.
Here's what Marty Balin was doing while the Jefferson Starship were "finding their way back" in 1981.
Re: What's up with that angry Hells Angel on stage at Altamont?
Posted by:
swiss
()
Date: April 12, 2014 04:28
Quote
lem motlowQuote
swiss
albert Maysles (who, along with brother David, as you know, directed and produced Gimme Shelter) and I spoke for 4.5 hours at his place in New York about all the above. He is in complete agreement this needs to be
re-visited and I'm the one to do it, and he'll help however he can
thats the key really-can you get your hands on that extra footage that they have?
It is pretty key. I'm thankful that everyone I've reached out to so far has been incredibly helpful and cooperative
(and has agreed to be interviewed, except Keith...yet).
Albert Maysles and my conversations have been extraordinary, So----regarding the footage----I have been granted full
access to all Gimme Shelter [and other] materials.
However, all Maysles Brothers' materials have been shipped to another organization to be preserved and "processed,"
to become a formal Archive. The Gimme Shelter outtakes [many many of them - Al and I discussed them] are only now
beginning to begin archival processing. Being an archivist myself, I can say when archivists get their hands on a
"collection" of this sort, there is a period of time when no one can access the archival objects except the achivists
directly involved with the archival processing. So, we will see.
Because I am still wrapping up "The Night Before Altamont" radio documentary, it's a non-issue for now.
Quote
swiss
unless Bill Fritsch has the ability to be in 2 places at once...since he was sitting on the side of the stage...it would not appear that it was he who knocked out Marty Balin
Quote
lem motlow
i'm not sure punching a member of the jefferson airplane is really a bad thing,after what they morphed into in the 1980's i think the whole band deserved the wack-a-mole treatment.
LOL - notwithstanding, I believe someone else can take the credit or blame for that.
Quote
lem motlow
do you know bill fritsch? is he still around? i met chuck zito a few years ago and he was doing some movie and had mickey rourke with him,bill seemed to be like an early version of chuck- he was in the angels but he hung out with actors,musicians and artists alot.
i've heard bill was friends with janis joplin and alot of those san fran people, which as you said,brings a whole other dimension to the onstage thing between paul kantner and him.
Bill Fritsch is still alive. I'm honored to have spent time with him recently, and hope to again soon.
I don't know Chuck Vito, or what he's like, but I believe it's be accurate to say Bill Fritsch didn't "hang around with"
actors, musicians, artists, as much as being an artist in his own right (poet), as well as a lot of other descriptors.
He was friends with those San Fran people, because he is one of those San Fran people. He was a "Digger,"
with Emmett Grogan and Peter Coyote, before and while being a Hells Angels.
Here's Bill "Sweet William Tumbleweed" Fritsch, as a Digger, getting ready to speechify and read radical poetry at
San Francisco City Hall.
To some extent, all of the people attending something like Altamont were viewed as outcasts, outlaws, miscreants,
and reprobates in the eyes of the "straight world," the Establishment, in the mid- to late-60s. Even Sonny Barger was not
a total stranger to the hippie scene -- altho he also held radically different views from many members of the
counterculture on fundamental, practical and philosophical matters. You may have heard this story about him and Allen
Ginsberg (et al.) from The Guardian--
" Says Barger: 'We made it clear to the peaceniks, the cops and the rest of the country where we stood on the war. We dug it.' The attacks on the demonstrators led to what must have been one of the strangest peace talks of all time when Ken Kesey, author of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, brought poet Allen Ginsberg and writer Neal Cassady to Barger's Oakland home to try to avoid future confrontations. 'Ginsberg took out his Tibetan silver prayer bells and began to chant in an Eastern lotus position. I knew about Ginsberg and his flaky poetry but it was still a bit weird seeing a robed and bearded Jewish man meditating and chanting in my living room.' The meeting was successful and they all sat around together getting loaded to Bob Dylan's Gates of Eden. Hell, Sonny even 'dug that skinny little Joan Baez and I even liked her music' by the end of it all."
So, the dividing lines we would tend to draw now, are not exactly what they were at that time. Not claiming that
everyone --i.e., all "freaks"-- was part of one big seamless love-pod, or even that the Oakland Hells Angels and
San Francisco Hells Angels, for example, were identical in their approaches and relationship to the "counterculture."
However, the San Francisco Hells Angels did play a similar role at the Human Be-In (Jan. 1967) as they did at Altamont.
My point being the presense of the Hells Angels at Altamont isn't as inconfruous as would seem to some people
today [not iorrans - we might tend to be aware of the background and circumstances around Altamont a bit better
than the average bear.
Here's Freewheelin' Frank at the Human Be-In.
Incidentally, if you haven't read his book, as narrated to poet Michael McClure, a friend of Freewheelin' Frank,
you might enjoy it: Freewheelin Frank: Secretary of the Angels
Quote
lem motlow
keep that name altamont 360 no matter what-its perfect.you start talking about one aspect of this and it takes off in every direction-
Thanks--I appreciate that feedback.
Quote
lem motlow
the great alan passaro died in 1985 and still nobody is sure exactly what happened to him-he was found floating in a river with $10,000 on him and his black bmw was sitting with the keys still in it.call me crazy but i think the boy may have been doing something that didnt involve a church group.but there you go,another sub-plot.
Not my subplot, but there's plenty to go around -- maybe that will be your film
Quote
lem motlow
its also great that you're talking with tony funches.i never even knew big tony was there,i thought he was with jim morrison at the time...
Tony signed on with the Stones as a bodyguard from the time they landed in LA in September 1969, working on
Let It Bleed, through Altamont. And then again during the 1972 tour, and, I believe the next 2 Stones' US tours.
He was with Jim 1970-71.
ps--stonesrule and I spoke on the phone one time about Altamont and other matters - we're good for now.
- swiss
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-17 09:52 by swiss.
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