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Swayed1967
It's Jagger on training wheels. Not too bad really...worth a listen now and then...but it's the second song he ever wrote by himself and it shows. I'll echo what others have said - it's the worst song on Beggars. It's probably not necessary to say that since it doesn't disgrace the album in the least...and yet labelling it worst feels so right.
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LazarusSmithQuote
HalfNankerQuote
DandelionPowderman
Or he just wants out, as soon as the rain stops. No need to overcomplicate this
i cant believe I'm jumping in on this silly "discussion" but it has stopped raining and he wants to finish and get out before it starts again.
It's possible that English is not Mick's first language, I'll grant you that -- the boy had a very cosmop upbringing. In English, we don't say "anymore" to refer to a situation that previously existed but has since ceased. "Anymore" rather refers to a condition that is ongoing and that the speaker wishes would stop. Therefore, it is raining, he doesn't wish it to rain anymore. Let's say a friend was actively bullying you - you might say "I don't want you to do that anymore." But if he had bullied you last week and stopped, you would instead say "I hope he doesn't bully me again," not "I hope he doesn't bully me anymore." There is always a sense of "at the present time" surrounding the use of "anymore."
Switching gears entirely ... what if "Jigsaw Puzzle" could also be seen as a sort of 'dry-run' for "Memo From Turner"?
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Witness
Question about correct Language, something which the actual use of language not always is :
Apart from the contexts 1) a one time bullying last week, and 2) an ongoing bullying at this moment, what would be the adequate term (anymore/again) for a wish to avoid bullying later on, when the context instead is 3) a repeated bullying taking place for instance each Tuesday when the two of them are together in a setting that is always the same on Tuesdays? Lending the situation more or less an existing habit and on another ensuing Tuesday is going to belong to its present time.
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saltoftheearthQuote
Swayed1967
It's Jagger on training wheels. Not too bad really...worth a listen now and then...but it's the second song he ever wrote by himself and it shows. I'll echo what others have said - it's the worst song on Beggars. It's probably not necessary to say that since it doesn't disgrace the album in the least...and yet labelling it worst feels so right.
In my opinion the Beggars Banquet album only works as an album. For instance, Dear dorctor or Jigsaw puzzle are no classic Songs but in he context of the albumthey shine like all the others.
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Swayed1967Quote
saltoftheearthQuote
Swayed1967
It's Jagger on training wheels. Not too bad really...worth a listen now and then...but it's the second song he ever wrote by himself and it shows. I'll echo what others have said - it's the worst song on Beggars. It's probably not necessary to say that since it doesn't disgrace the album in the least...and yet labelling it worst feels so right.
In my opinion the Beggars Banquet album only works as an album. For instance, Dear dorctor or Jigsaw puzzle are no classic Songs but in he context of the albumthey shine like all the others.
I’d say that’s pretty much everyone’s opinion and for the initiated almost goes without saying. It’s a fair point of course but in Track Talk we must pretend the song was released only as a 45 – otherwise we get bogged down by these ‘greater than the sum of its parts’ arguments. Not that I’m unsympathetic to that type of argument. I mean The Rolling Stones are the poster boys for that line of thinking.
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GasLightStreet
The slide.... BARRROOOWWWWWWW RAOWWWWW RAOWWW ROAAAAARAAAAOOORRRR RAOWRRR RAOWRRRRRR... there's a tramp sittin' on my doorstep...
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hopkins
love it. from first hearing and always.
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WitnessQuote
LazarusSmithQuote
HalfNankerQuote
DandelionPowderman
Or he just wants out, as soon as the rain stops. No need to overcomplicate this
i cant believe I'm jumping in on this silly "discussion" but it has stopped raining and he wants to finish and get out before it starts again.
It's possible that English is not Mick's first language, I'll grant you that -- the boy had a very cosmop upbringing. In English, we don't say "anymore" to refer to a situation that previously existed but has since ceased. "Anymore" rather refers to a condition that is ongoing and that the speaker wishes would stop. Therefore, it is raining, he doesn't wish it to rain anymore. Let's say a friend was actively bullying you - you might say "I don't want you to do that anymore." But if he had bullied you last week and stopped, you would instead say "I hope he doesn't bully me again," not "I hope he doesn't bully me anymore." There is always a sense of "at the present time" surrounding the use of "anymore."
Switching gears entirely ... what if "Jigsaw Puzzle" could also be seen as a sort of 'dry-run' for "Memo From Turner"?
Question about correct language, something which the actual use of language not always is :
Apart from the contexts 1) a one time bullying last week, and 2) an ongoing bullying at this moment, what would be the adequate term (anymore/again) for a wish to avoid bullying later on, when the context instead is 3) a repeated bullying taking place for instance each Tuesday when the two of them are together in a setting that is always the same on Tuesdays? Lending the situation more or less an existing habit and on another ensuing Tuesday is going to belong to its present time.
Edit: The PC quite often prints capital letters, which I did not Write.
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DandelionPowderman
What's up with the "you was a beauty..." in She's So Cold, btw?
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Swayed1967Quote
saltoftheearthQuote
Swayed1967
It's Jagger on training wheels. Not too bad really...worth a listen now and then...but it's the second song he ever wrote by himself and it shows. I'll echo what others have said - it's the worst song on Beggars. It's probably not necessary to say that since it doesn't disgrace the album in the least...and yet labelling it worst feels so right.
In my opinion the Beggars Banquet album only works as an album. For instance, Dear dorctor or Jigsaw puzzle are no classic Songs but in he context of the albumthey shine like all the others.
I’d say that’s pretty much everyone’s opinion and for the initiated almost goes without saying. It’s a fair point of course but in Track Talk we must pretend the song was released only as a 45 – otherwise we get bogged down by these ‘greater than the sum of its parts’ arguments. Not that I’m unsympathetic to that type of argument. I mean The Rolling Stones are the poster boys for that line of thinking.
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HMS
In my opinion, this song can stand proudly on it´s own feet and doesn´t necessarily need any album-related-context.
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drewmaster
The question then becomes, what does it mean to "do" a jig-saw puzzle? Does it imply completing it, or merely working on it?
Drew
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drewmaster
I can't resist weighing on the "anymore" debate.
If I'm looking out the window and it's not raining now but it recently rained, it would be perfectly normal for me to say "I hope it doesn't rain anymore".
If I'm looking out the window and it's currently raining, it would be strange for me to say "I hope it doesn't rain anymore", although grammatically it would be acceptable since the rain could stop the moment that I say that.
So in all likelihood the narrator is trying to do his jig-saw puzzle before the rain, which had stopped, starts up again.
The question then becomes, what does it mean to "do" a jig-saw puzzle? Does it imply completing it, or merely working on it?
Drew
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drewmaster
I can't resist weighing on the "anymore" debate.
If I'm looking out the window and it's not raining now but it recently rained, it would be perfectly normal for me to say "I hope it doesn't rain anymore".
If I'm looking out the window and it's currently raining, it would be strange for me to say "I hope it doesn't rain anymore", although grammatically it would be acceptable since the rain could stop the moment that I say that.
So in all likelihood the narrator is trying to do his jig-saw puzzle before the rain, which had stopped, starts up again.
The question then becomes, what does it mean to "do" a jig-saw puzzle? Does it imply completing it, or merely working on it?
Drew
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GasLightStreet
The slide.... BARRROOOWWWWWWW RAOWWWWW RAOWWW ROAAAAARAAAAOOORRRR RAOWRRR RAOWRRRRRR... there's a tramp sittin' on my doorstep...
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I think his words make MORE sense if it isn't raining at the time he sang them.Quote
LazarusSmith
The "I hope it doesn't" is a different sentence structure, though. The singer says "before it rains anymore." His words make no sense if in fact it wasn't raining at the time he sang them.
I agree except for your assertion that it's raining. It did rain, but not at the moment he's singing the lyric.Quote
LazarusSmith
The "do" is fascinating, though! I would say "do" means "complete" in this context since he is rushing to achieve something before "it rains anymore" - which, as we've discussed, makes no sense. Anyone can "work" on a jigsaw puzzle, even for a split-second. So, obviously, he would have no problem with his "do," by that definition. What he is trying to do, though, is more complex, and so I say he is trying to complete the jigsaw puzzle before the rain, which is raining, rains anymore.
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wonderboy
The narrator is only able to do the puzzle because there is a break in the 'rain' (not literal rain, just the craziness going on around him.) The puzzle could be anything -- finish writing these lrics, make this girl, get the band into the studio all together so we can record a song,
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LazarusSmith
well to each his own, of course
lyrics to me are 3rd rate scattershot pseudo-psychedelic dylan -- really, 20,000 grandmas wave their hankies in the air? this is only marginally better than them 4,000 holes in blackburn lancashire.
and musically i find it just whines on and on with a plodding repetitiveness that sucks the life outta ya
it just got no SOUL
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drewmasterQuote
wonderboy
The narrator is only able to do the puzzle because there is a break in the 'rain' (not literal rain, just the craziness going on around him.) The puzzle could be anything -- finish writing these lrics, make this girl, get the band into the studio all together so we can record a song,
Nice! I hadn't thought about it in those metaphorical terms but now that you mention it it makes perfect sense!
Drew