Heroin chic' ...always been fashionable from the late 60's and still going strong.

He must be the smartest "brain damaged" man in the world!

Seriously, Keith is a highly intelligent guy. You can tell that from his interviews, when he's tired of putting on his KR-act (that happens once in a while).

Heroin doesn't damage your brain either - it just doesn't work that way

....Yeah that's it Powderman....



ROCKMAN

Did he dabble post 80'? Likely. Nicotine is said to be on par with heroin. YOU DONT KICK SHIT UNIL YOU ARE READY, period. For myself , I quit smoking several times......and came back. The last time, I was done, mentally with the whole thing, stinking, hurrying to finish a meal so I could leave the restaurant and have a smoke before the family was done, all the BS. I think the proof of the blow is in the pudding. Good clean pure coke makes you feel and act young. Its an extrovert/feelgood thing. Notice how now when he plays, at times he seems to have aged 20 years.......well 8 years older, minus coke, and....the present! It has been stated earlier, one things alcoholics do, is lie, especially about alcohol. Considering the quality of his pharmaceuticals, alcohol likely IS the most damaging to him. Kicking anything has strange mental effects. One gets clean, this is sort of a high, but like all highs, it wears off, hence continual relapse. For an artist, creativity may not be as fun, or as "creative"......your mind changes. For users, the sober life is a bore, you become like everyone else in some ways, thats hard for anyone much less a rock star of his caliber. On some levels, that is who he is. After years of use, you dont know or even like the sober you. It is a dog chasing its tail in that respect. As for weed..........whatever......is it even a drug.....

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mahituna
in his book he went cold turkey for good in may 1978. He said he had a brief replase and that was it. In his book he never mentions using it again.

well that aint true cause there are many sources including Keith who say 1980. They never say how but its a fact he used methadone. Dr meg didnt cure him, cool story though. I wonder if he had relapses in the 80s as well. Bockris seems to hint that

He was not ON Methadone, but had a relapse - taking methadone together with Jim Carrol, before Carrol´s NYC gig in 1980.

he was a junkie for many years after 78, Toronto, etc. As a lot of people have noted, he continued to use coke until a few years ago and, what would you call someone who has managed, at the urging of his family, to cut back on his drinking to only 2 or 3 a day? An alcoholic who has things under control?

Two or three drinks a day is fine, if his doctor's are OK with it. That would be too much for some, I couldn't handle it, but for someone like Keith who has a high tolerence, I imagine it's like a half a glass would be for me. All you have to do is look at him now to see that he's clear-headed and sober. Keith looks the best he has in years, he's obviously doing something right. It may have taken him a long time, but he appears to have gotten over his addictions, at least the worst of them, and he should be commended for that. Hopefully he is grateful to all the people in his life who love him and have supported him over the years.

He has also gained weight after ABB tour which may indicate that at least he is not using drugs anymore.

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Rokyfan

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mahituna
in his book he went cold turkey for good in may 1978. He said he had a brief replase and that was it. In his book he never mentions using it again.

well that aint true cause there are many sources including Keith who say 1980. They never say how but its a fact he used methadone. Dr meg didnt cure him, cool story though. I wonder if he had relapses in the 80s as well. Bockris seems to hint that

He was not ON Methadone, but had a relapse - taking methadone together with Jim Carrol, before Carrol´s NYC gig in 1980.

he was a junkie for many years after 78, Toronto, etc. As a lot of people have noted, he continued to use coke until a few years ago and, what would you call someone who has managed, at the urging of his family, to cut back on his drinking to only 2 or 3 a day? An alcoholic who has things under control?

Two or three drinks a day is fine, if his doctor's are OK with it. That would be too much for some, I couldn't handle it, but for someone like Keith who has a high tolerence, I imagine it's like a half a glass would be for me. All you have to do is look at him now to see that he's clear-headed and sober. Keith looks the best he has in years, he's obviously doing something right. It may have taken him a long time, but he appears to have gotten over his addictions, at least the worst of them, and he should be commended for that. Hopefully he is grateful to all the people in his life who love him and have supported him over the years.

He has also gained weight after ABB tour which may indicate that at least he is not using drugs anymore.

I think the gaining of weight might have been a consequence of taking legal drugs after the fall...

Or both?

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Thrylan
Or both?

Possibly

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stonehearted

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The Sicilian
Has he ever said who first turned him on to heroin and when?

What about Charlie, how long was his bender and when?

It just seems to have been something the rock fraternity was turned on to at the time. In her autobiography, Marianne Faithfull relates the progression of the London scene from soft to hard drugs. At first in the mid-60s, everyone was delighted with weed, what with the UK having been mainly a pills and booze culture up to that point, but then the high was not so much after a while of getting used to it, so cocaine was added to the mix and then heroin by '67 or so.

With Keith it wasn't like it was with Ginger Baker meeting musician hero Phil Seaman for the first time and all of a sudden being exposed to the ritual habits of a junkie, it was just there, everywhere around him after a certain point in time.

Charlie, he did his thing in the 80s--luckily when The Stones weren't touring. Besides heroin, there were also amphetamines and alcohol. This was from Undercover right through Dirty Work, '83 to '86 or so.

Though it seems Charlie, being from a jazz background, was likely the first member of the band to experiment, as there are accounts in the literature of him turning up one time at Edith Grove to share a spliff he rolled.

Charlie started using smack during Some Girls (1977).

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stonehearted

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The Sicilian
Has he ever said who first turned him on to heroin and when?

What about Charlie, how long was his bender and when?

It just seems to have been something the rock fraternity was turned on to at the time. In her autobiography, Marianne Faithfull relates the progression of the London scene from soft to hard drugs. At first in the mid-60s, everyone was delighted with weed, what with the UK having been mainly a pills and booze culture up to that point, but then the high was not so much after a while of getting used to it, so cocaine was added to the mix and then heroin by '67 or so.

With Keith it wasn't like it was with Ginger Baker meeting musician hero Phil Seaman for the first time and all of a sudden being exposed to the ritual habits of a junkie, it was just there, everywhere around him after a certain point in time.

Charlie, he did his thing in the 80s--luckily when The Stones weren't touring. Besides heroin, there were also amphetamines and alcohol. This was from Undercover right through Dirty Work, '83 to '86 or so.

Though it seems Charlie, being from a jazz background, was likely the first member of the band to experiment, as there are accounts in the literature of him turning up one time at Edith Grove to share a spliff he rolled.

Charlie started using smack during Some Girls (1977).

Really... Charlie, too, had a 10 year fling with Mr. Brownstone. That's a new one.

With both feet, I'd imagine. And straight in the face a la Blackpool Ballroom 64.

He sees heroin the way he sees the authorities. Needs good kicking...

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Thrylan
For users, the sober life is a bore

Hey that's the very definition of life : boring with rare moments of greatness.
If one can't accept this and needs substances to live through the day well... he/she's still a child.

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Thrylan
For users, the sober life is a bore

Hey that's the very definition of life : boring with rare moments of greatness.
If one can't accept this and needs substances to live through the day well... he/she's still a child.

Likely true. Just a statement. On some level, I would say many "stars" get catapulted to stardom so quickly, that in some ways, they don't mature, might not make them a child. It also ties in with a persons thrill threshold

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stonesdan60
After the big Toronto bust Keith used some sort of "black box" treatment where electrodes were clipped to his ears, somehow transmitting electronic signals that reduced the withdrawals and cravings.

Here's a long article—in a 1983 Omni—about that black-box treatment >>> [www.bobbeck.com]

For whatever it's worth this long time IORR follower but rare poster finds it very interesting that not much is ever said about Patti's Christian heritage and faith, not only hers but most of her families as well. I for one would credit this first and foremost as to how Keith was able to get sober regardless of when it occurred. When you live with someone who genuinely tries to follow, worship and serve Christ it will definitely have some sort of an impact. And I'm not talking about the "BIBLE THUMPERS" standing outside of the concert venue screaming hypocrisy at people like a raving lunatic, I doubt most of those people are even Christians! And yes I know Keith at least as far as I've ever read has never said anything about whether or not he is a believer, but then again who as a famous musician ever would after the way Dylan was hounded and harassed after his 3 Christian records and no Dylan did not renounce his faith at least in my opinion. I know there are other IORR's that follow CHrist & I'd like to hear from them, please!

Cheers my friends,

NWSooner

Ayahuasca

In many ways, the argument could be posed that heroin killed this band before even Ron came aboard. Some would make the argument that heroin influenced the music or writing or made the performances possible or tolerable at that pace and all that.
for a time anyway. it's been said one can't outrun that kind of Dragon forever, or even too very long...it could be said they made fine music without heavy narcotics or speed but God knows what was going on even in those clubs with uppers and downers before they even had a hit....i don't get the impression that Keith is an 'in recovery' kinda Eric Clapton or Steve Earle kinda guy...more likely the guy with a cocktail at least, on top of a little something or other...i guess; i mean i don't know for sure. and wouldn't judge him one way or the other at this point.
however whatever drove them to the miraculous heights of the golden period on album and tour i can't know for sure but for sure come the early 70's it was out of hand...taylor, keith, jimmy miller, charlie...mick was cleaning up fast...the rest were in at least some sort of trouble; some of it pretty serious...drugs killed Brian, were a major reason Taylor split, WAS the reason Miller became useless, and he was their best in so many ways....WAS the reason Mick and Keith couldn't hang together and be closer friends and then wouldn't talk to each other for years never mind write a song together...and a lot of other younger rock stars and even fans took some bad turns thinking it was pop star cool to get loaded but not having a clue about the sure degradation and decline. Keith's millions have saved him from death and jail. thankfully. i don't know K, never even met him; have no idea what he was like as a father this second time around with Patti's girls....now grown...they seem to worship and adore him tho and that says something....and Pattis is some kind of major super power of a woman for sure....
i don['t even know if he 'kicked' anything really; just maybe being medication managed in a number of ways for the brain injury and other ailments...i love Keith; i think he will outlive me and I'm a lot younger...but i have a friend that's 89 who rides his bike to the coffee shop every morning; and he's no spring chicken or anything; but he's clear as a bell, full of good humor, and seriously looks younger than Keith. so there's that. i mean Mick's looking really old too but not that kind of wasted living thru devastation kinda look; he looks fresh and spry for a guy ten years younger...and all those years with k and k jr. smoking coke and whatnot; it's a wonder Jags ain't in jail for murder, he did try to leave haha...

Wow.Rule #1 is don't believe everything you hear. There is such a thing as PR and these guys rarely speak without calculating first.

As for drugs, they cut down with age, but Mick, Keith, and Ronnie still used or use as they can. Ronnie may very well be clean. I tend to believe folks who say coke still appears on tour if in controlled amounts. Heroin was touched here and there throughout the eighties and nineties. The Winos tours and Bridges to name names.

As for Patti, yeah she comes from a stable background and yeah she's a strong person too, but she fit Keith very well. Very similar. Very much a party girl for a lot of years. As for Mick, as late as the eighties and WWIII, for all his complaining about over-indulgence, Mick still did a lot of blow in the studio.

Todd Snider: Alcohol and Pills -- (written by Fred Eaglesmith)
[www.youtube.com]

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NWSooner
For whatever it's worth this long time IORR follower but rare poster finds it very interesting that not much is ever said about Patti's Christian heritage and faith, not only hers but most of her families as well. I for one would credit this first and foremost as to how Keith was able to get sober regardless of when it occurred. When you live with someone who genuinely tries to follow, worship and serve Christ it will definitely have some sort of an impact. And I'm not talking about the "BIBLE THUMPERS" standing outside of the concert venue screaming hypocrisy at people like a raving lunatic, I doubt most of those people are even Christians! And yes I know Keith at least as far as I've ever read has never said anything about whether or not he is a believer, but then again who as a famous musician ever would after the way Dylan was hounded and harassed after his 3 Christian records and no Dylan did not renounce his faith at least in my opinion. I know there are other IORR's that follow CHrist & I'd like to hear from them, please!

Cheers my friends,

NWSooner

I'm pretty sure Keith is a point blank Atheist, much to Patti's frustration but it's a testament to the strength of their relationship that they get over this. The story I always read is that his manager, Jane Rose told him bluntly that he had to choose between music and drugs. That said, there's no doubt that Patti is a rock in his life, whatever her personal beliefs.

Btw, as a rare poster, you should know that Bjornulf's rules are that Politics and Religion are a strict no-no on this site and that's as much as I'm going to say.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-27 14:09 by grzegorz67.

According to Keith they gave him "this medical thing", referring to methadone I assume.
In the end he had it to do himself of course.

[en.wikipedia.org]

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Redhotcarpet

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stonehearted

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The Sicilian
Has he ever said who first turned him on to heroin and when?

What about Charlie, how long was his bender and when?

It just seems to have been something the rock fraternity was turned on to at the time. In her autobiography, Marianne Faithfull relates the progression of the London scene from soft to hard drugs. At first in the mid-60s, everyone was delighted with weed, what with the UK having been mainly a pills and booze culture up to that point, but then the high was not so much after a while of getting used to it, so cocaine was added to the mix and then heroin by '67 or so.

With Keith it wasn't like it was with Ginger Baker meeting musician hero Phil Seaman for the first time and all of a sudden being exposed to the ritual habits of a junkie, it was just there, everywhere around him after a certain point in time.

Charlie, he did his thing in the 80s--luckily when The Stones weren't touring. Besides heroin, there were also amphetamines and alcohol. This was from Undercover right through Dirty Work, '83 to '86 or so.

Though it seems Charlie, being from a jazz background, was likely the first member of the band to experiment, as there are accounts in the literature of him turning up one time at Edith Grove to share a spliff he rolled.

Charlie started using smack during Some Girls (1977).

It's amazing how people state things so matter-of-factly.

How do YOU know that? For years and years, all reputable reports have been that Charlie's drug abuse took place during a few years in the mid-'80s.

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Redhotcarpet
Since he was on it before Toronto 1997 and in pretty bad shape its likely he used again, not just once or twice. I understand it as he had a relapse and then quit sometime later, when I dont know. I know it doesnt mean anything but he did have those heroin eyes for a while in the late 90s. He seems very different from 1995.

Not sure I agree...Keith played and performed very well on the B2B tour.

He looked older because he let his hair go gray, and he looked skinny even compared to the Voodoo Lounge tour...we all know that coke makes people skinny.

If anything, I'd say Keith was more in a cocaine binge mode during the late '90s than any heroin relapse, save for him "having a taste"...I remember reading that quote at the time and being shocked that he'd be so cavalier talking about smack at that stage of his life.

Didn't he admit to trying it again on the Bridges Tour but didn't enjoy it anymore? Read that somewhere...

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

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HonkeyTonkFlash
Didn't he admit to trying it again on the Bridges Tour but didn't enjoy it anymore? Read that somewhere...

Yeah, that's what we're referring to. He said someone scored some and he had a taste, but only got a case of the itches from it.

Some people are suggesting he had an extensive relapse during that period as opposed to a one-time thing. Never heard that before.

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NWSooner
For whatever it's worth this long time IORR follower but rare poster finds it very interesting that not much is ever said about Patti's Christian heritage and faith, not only hers but most of her families as well. I for one would credit this first and foremost as to how Keith was able to get sober regardless of when it occurred. When you live with someone who genuinely tries to follow, worship and serve Christ it will definitely have some sort of an impact. And I'm not talking about the "BIBLE THUMPERS" standing outside of the concert venue screaming hypocrisy at people like a raving lunatic, I doubt most of those people are even Christians! And yes I know Keith at least as far as I've ever read has never said anything about whether or not he is a believer, but then again who as a famous musician ever would after the way Dylan was hounded and harassed after his 3 Christian records and no Dylan did not renounce his faith at least in my opinion. I know there are other IORR's that follow CHrist & I'd like to hear from them, please!

Cheers my friends,

NWSooner

I'm pretty sure Keith is a point blank Atheist, much to Patti's frustration but it's a testament to the strength of their relationship that they get over this. The story I always read is that his manager, Jane Rose told him bluntly that he had to choose between music and drugs. That said, there's no doubt that Patti is a rock in his life, whatever her personal beliefs.

Btw, as a rare poster, you should know that Bjornulf's rules are that Politics and Religion are a strict no-no on this site and that's as much as I'm going to say.

Yeah I definitely know the rules here for sure, but I was answering the question honestly, not just making a random comment about religion or theology, if he deletes it he deletes it, won't change my opinion about this topic or this web-site, it's his to do with as he pleases.

He probably quit because he was ashamed of his heroin use, it brought him so much aggravation and pain. When he was talking about his drug use at a press conference for 'Life' he was very emotional when the subject of his drug use came up because his wife and daughters were in the room. Every addict has some kind of limit of how low they will go. Maybe Toronto was his bottom. When you've got to ask Bill Wyman to score drugs for you, that's pretty low.
Most of this is informed speculation, but he got help from Mick, help from Jane Rose, help from Patti, probably help from other people that he keeps out of the media. Keith was a mama's boy, maybe she helped him.
Quitting Anita was a big part of it. He couldn't stay with her and get off heroin because she was still using. Getting out of that relationship was probably harder than getting clean. Probably people helped him with that.
Probably staying in the Stones was a big motivator. Mick would have replaced him if he had gotten busted again.
Am 99 pct sure Keith is a stone addict, maybe 1 pct he just likes to use drugs. Don't like to give 100 pct certainty to anything. Like another poster said, the first casualty of being an addict is honesty, and you can't believe anything he says on this subject. Occasionally, his bullshit is revealing.
I do agree with the poster who said he drowned his heroin addiction with booze.
I hope he has some years of clean time ahead of him. Maybe Ron's example will inspire him.

What does 'heroin chic' actually mean? Surely we are so much more aware that drugs aint cool and are best avoided totally. George Michael's untimely death are a reminder of the dangers of excessive use of drink/drugs. That's why I can never understand how Keith can be described as 'cool'.
Did Jane Rose really say it was a choice between drugs and music?. Only a Manager would say that! Family, parents, band members, friends of lesser importance?

On the subject of Keith's alcoholism it always surprises me that in books or general media and interviews its always drugs that still get mentioned but very little reference to booze....despite the huge proven dangers to one's physical health.
Keith probably has reduced his alcohol intake...no constitution would survive the constant abuse to the body, all medical experts agree on that one. Keith is not Superman!

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jlowe
What does 'heroin chic' actually mean? Surely we are so much more aware that drugs aint cool and are best avoided totally. George Michael's untimely death are a reminder of the dangers of excessive use of drink/drugs. That's why I can never understand how Keith can be described as 'cool'.
Did Jane Rose really say it was a choice between drugs and music?. Only a Manager would say that! Family, parents, band members, friends of lesser importance?

On the subject of Keith's alcoholism it always surprises me that in books or general media and interviews its always drugs that still get mentioned but very little reference to booze....despite the huge proven dangers to one's physical health.
Keith probably has reduced his alcohol intake...no constitution would survive the constant abuse to the body, all medical experts agree on that one. Keith is not Superman!

Firstly when Keith gave up heroin he didn't have much of a family, were talking 77'. Marlon lived with Anita, Angela lived with Keith's mum, he was still estranged from his father and he hadn't met Patti yet. Jane Rose saying to Keith its drugs or music did include the band, the only family Keith had at that point.

Secondly i'm not sure that Keith is or has ever been an alcoholic, he stops when he wants to and has never been rehab like Ronnie. I think Keith chooses when to drink and when not to. Its too late to say drinking or smoking is effecting Keith's health, he will be 74 this year and how many 74 year old's do you know that energetically play guitar for 2 hours to stadiums around the world. He is fit at his age for a non smoker drinker.

Thirdly whether you think so or not, Keith has been thought of by many who meet him and also many who admire him from afar to be the coolest man on the planet .
That's just the way it is regardless of whether you think drugs made him uncool or not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-03-27 22:34 by stone4ever.