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retired_dog

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GetYerAngie
But both the Decca-rights and the RSR-rights are now in the hands of Universal aren't they? (and wouldn't that solve the problem?)

Not really. Universal is the exclusive distributor for ABKCO (pre-1971 so-called "DECCA rights" ) and RSR (1971 onwards) material, nothing else. Concerning the release of archive gems, Universal as a distributor simply does not have the final word if certain stuff gets released or not.

For pre-1971 stuff, both ABKCO (as the rightholder of the recorded material) and the Stones as performing artists have to give their ok,and this would surely count for CS Blues, the "lost" DECCA single. Consequently, if ABKCO wants to release CS Blues and the Stones say no = no release. Even if the Stones want to release CS Blues and ABKCO says no = no release. If both parties say yes = CS will be released and distributed through Universal.

For 1971 onwards stuff, it's a bit easier because the Stones themselves are rightholders of the recorded material and performing artists at the same time.

That can't be right - Jagger/Richards OKed that song that Klein sued that band over? What was it? Something symphony. All these commercials on TV with Stones songs? Jagger/Richards have nothing to do with that approval as far as I am aware.

ABKCO can release any songs from Sticky Fingers and the five or however many it is on Exile for any compilation because those songs were recorded during the Decca contract.

You left out one detail about Universal - they have distribution of not only the Rolling Stones Records catalogue, 1971-1991 but also the Virgin catalogue, 1993-2006.

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KeefintheNight82
I guess that's where we finally get Scarlett and the Clapton version of Brown Sugar?

Didn't they leave Scarlett off of Exile because it was from the Goats Head Soup era? It wouldn't make any sense to put it on Sticky Fingers, then...
Personally, I'm hoping for the early version of Sister Morphine. It might even feature Brian Jones!

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Erik_Snow

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DragonSky
OK just figured it out. Don't know what I was thinking thinking that.

Don't think think twice, it's all right

I was really thinking on that one.

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DragonSky
ABKCO can release any songs from Sticky Fingers and the five or however many it is on Exile for any compilation because those songs were recorded during the Decca contract.

I think that only goes for Brown Sugar and Wild Horses.

Look in the liner notes of Sticky and Exile - anything that says ©1971 ABKCO Music or ©1972 ABKCO Music means they can use those songs - which is all of Fingers and part of Exile.

They only have used the two of them because they were singles. But if ABKCO Records wanted to use Can't You Hear Me Knocking for a car commercial...they could.

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DragonSky

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Erik_Snow

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DragonSky
OK just figured it out. Don't know what I was thinking thinking that.

Don't think think twice, it's all right

I was really thinking on that one.

So it's a triple now ?

I need to go read the thread title again.
I'm lost. Did I leave my beer in here?

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DragonSky

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retired_dog

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GetYerAngie
But both the Decca-rights and the RSR-rights are now in the hands of Universal aren't they? (and wouldn't that solve the problem?)

Not really. Universal is the exclusive distributor for ABKCO (pre-1971 so-called "DECCA rights" ) and RSR (1971 onwards) material, nothing else. Concerning the release of archive gems, Universal as a distributor simply does not have the final word if certain stuff gets released or not.

For pre-1971 stuff, both ABKCO (as the rightholder of the recorded material) and the Stones as performing artists have to give their ok,and this would surely count for CS Blues, the "lost" DECCA single. Consequently, if ABKCO wants to release CS Blues and the Stones say no = no release. Even if the Stones want to release CS Blues and ABKCO says no = no release. If both parties say yes = CS will be released and distributed through Universal.

For 1971 onwards stuff, it's a bit easier because the Stones themselves are rightholders of the recorded material and performing artists at the same time.

That can't be right - Jagger/Richards OKed that song that Klein sued that band over? What was it? Something symphony. All these commercials on TV with Stones songs? Jagger/Richards have nothing to do with that approval as far as I am aware.

ABKCO can release any songs from Sticky Fingers and the five or however many it is on Exile for any compilation because those songs were recorded during the Decca contract.

You left out one detail about Universal - they have distribution of not only the Rolling Stones Records catalogue, 1971-1991 but also the Virgin catalogue, 1993-2006.

Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve - it's based on the ALO recording of a Jagger/Richards composition - The Last Time - both, recording and composition - are controlled by ABKCO.

There is no "Virgin catalogue" - Virgin was just a distributor, just like Universal is a distributor now.

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StonesTod

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GetYerAngie

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StonesTod
also, a deluxe ghs package with a heretofore unearthed live '73 show has just been announced. and, a sticky fingers deluxe edition, including a '71 show with wild horses and chymk has just been confirmed by the fellas.

That really is very good news!

more fabulous news forthcoming today from a very unreliable source.

Tod, your are making us very curious ...

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retired_dog
There is no "Virgin catalogue" - Virgin was just a distributor, just like Universal is a distributor now.

None of the Virgin albums say Rolling Stones Records on them.

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muenke

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StonesTod

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GetYerAngie

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StonesTod
also, a deluxe ghs package with a heretofore unearthed live '73 show has just been announced. and, a sticky fingers deluxe edition, including a '71 show with wild horses and chymk has just been confirmed by the fellas.

That really is very good news!

more fabulous news forthcoming today from a very unreliable source.

Tod, your are making us very curious ...

six words: deluxe love you live el mocambo

more words later



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-14 17:54 by StonesTod.

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StonesTod

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muenke

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StonesTod

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GetYerAngie

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StonesTod
also, a deluxe ghs package with a heretofore unearthed live '73 show has just been announced. and, a sticky fingers deluxe edition, including a '71 show with wild horses and chymk has just been confirmed by the fellas.

That really is very good news!

more fabulous news forthcoming today from a very unreliable source.

Tod, your are making us very curious ...

six words: deluxe love you live el mocambo

more words later

I've allready made the artworks for this one!
Great to hear that my hope now comes true

Any chance for this one, in the near future, Tod ?

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StonesTod

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muenke

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StonesTod

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GetYerAngie

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StonesTod
also, a deluxe ghs package with a heretofore unearthed live '73 show has just been announced. and, a sticky fingers deluxe edition, including a '71 show with wild horses and chymk has just been confirmed by the fellas.

That really is very good news!

more fabulous news forthcoming today from a very unreliable source.

Tod, your are making us very curious ...

six words: deluxe love you live el mocambo

more words later

Incredible! The vaults really are open now - and seems to stay so.

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Erik_Snow
Any chance for this one, in the near future, Tod ?

the greed and feeding frenzy are really something to behold.

what tour was it that they never really got it on until detroit? 69 or 72? if it was 69, then i'm afraid yer outta luck.

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StonesTod

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Erik_Snow
Any chance for this one, in the near future, Tod ?

the greed and feeding frenzy are really something to behold.

what tour was it that they never really got it on until detroit? 69 or 72? if it was 69, then i'm afraid yer outta luck.

They didn't "get it on untill Detroit" in 1969
But Detroit 1972 is something else....none of the 2 shows are available on recording. According to Wyman; the best show(s) in 1972 took place there...and it was the first time ever they did Uptight/Satisfaction with Stevie and Wonderlove....so....please consider this one !

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Erik_Snow

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StonesTod

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Erik_Snow
Any chance for this one, in the near future, Tod ?

the greed and feeding frenzy are really something to behold.

what tour was it that they never really got it on until detroit? 69 or 72? if it was 69, then i'm afraid yer outta luck.

They didn't "get it on untill Detroit" in 1969
But Detroit 1972 is something else....none of the 2 shows are available on recording. According to Wyman; the best show(s) in 1972 took place there...and it was the first time ever they did Uptight/Satisfaction with Stevie and Wonderlove....so....please consider this one !

if i hear you correctly...and i think i do...you're saying let's get it on. i'll consider your request with much thought and consideration. you know i have a soft spot for '72.

Oh wait, there it is.

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Erik_Snow

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DragonSky

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Erik_Snow

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DragonSky
OK just figured it out. Don't know what I was thinking thinking that.

Don't think think twice, it's all right

I was really thinking on that one.

So it's a triple now ?

Double that.

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DragonSky

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retired_dog
There is no "Virgin catalogue" - Virgin was just a distributor, just like Universal is a distributor now.

None of the Virgin albums say Rolling Stones Records on them.

Aaaaaah, come on, since 1971, the Stones control their recordings, if it's RSR or Promotone B.V. or whatever. EMI/CBS/Virgin and now Universal are limited-time only licensing deals for distribution purposes.

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retired_dog

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DragonSky

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retired_dog
There is no "Virgin catalogue" - Virgin was just a distributor, just like Universal is a distributor now.

None of the Virgin albums say Rolling Stones Records on them.

Aaaaaah, come on, since 1971, the Stones control their recordings, if it's RSR or Promotone B.V. or whatever. EMI/CBS/Virgin and now Universal are limited-time only licensing deals for distribution purposes.

more info here: [en.wikipedia.org]

As a label, Rolling Stones Records finished after the initial release of FLASHPOINT in 1991, but at the end of the day all that mattered were the copyrights. Promotone's control has been consistent for 40 years now and that entity was and is the true Rolling Stones Records. The lapping tongue logo seemed more relevant than continuing the Rolling Stones Records name added to which they had no aspirations of signing other artists to the label after the early eighties when the interest shifted to solo careers and they seemed incapable of respecting one another's side projects as they had done in the seventies when they were not perceived as a threat to the band. Additionally, I suspect Mick and Keith's growing independence as solo artists (hard to believe, but in 1991 it appeared both would continue to alternate solo projects with Stones albums and world tours) also made the Rolling Stones Records title less meaningful. Their identity away from Klein had been long-since established in the public eye thanks in no small part to the tongue and lips logo. There was no need to have their equivalent of Apple Records or Swan Song Records anymore.

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DragonSky
Look in the liner notes of Sticky and Exile - anything that says ©1971 ABKCO Music or ©1972 ABKCO Music means they can use those songs - which is all of Fingers and part of Exile.

They only have used the two of them because they were singles. But if ABKCO Records wanted to use Can't You Hear Me Knocking for a car commercial...they could.

I've always read that they had to turn over half of Brown Sugar and Wild Horses to make up for @#$%& Blues. They owed Decca one more single, and two halves make a whole.
If ABKCO really could use Sticky Fingers and half of Exile for commercials, surely they'd have done so by now, don't you think?

ABKCO has made use of more than just those two songs. ABKCO released "Sway" and "Bitch" on SINGLES 1968-1971 and back in the mid-seventies included several songs from EXILE and STICKY FINGERS on a radio promo. What ABKCO can't do is reissue STICKY FINGERS despite their rights to the individual songs. It's probably simpler and more accurate to consider it a shared ownership between ABKCO and Promotone.

What I found interesting is that when "Good Time Women" was finally released, PromoPub controlled the publishing despite that song being registered by ABKCO back in the early seventies. I don't think the Stones pulled a fast one, it is simply indicative of the better relationship they have with Jody Klein where much more give and take is possible on both sides.

For the Sticky Fingers deluxe 71 concert, how about the possibility of them releasing the whole Live at Leeds show? That would be a nice show to get an official release.

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Vocalion
By the way, So Young is not prev. unreleased.

Yeah, seriously.

It's like the 1988 'Imagine' film about John Lennon had a demo of his on the soundtrack album called 'Real Love'.

Fast forward to 1995 and the three (then) surviving Beatles did 'Free as a Bird'... but then did another 'new' song called 'Real Love'. That was the same already-released song with Fab Three icing on it.

[thepowergoats.com]

Disc 2

1. Claudine
2. So Young
3. Do You Think I Really Care
4. When You’re Gone
5. No Spare Parts
6. Don’t Be A Stranger
7. We Had It All
8. Tallahassee Lassie
9. I Love You Too Much
10. Keep Up Blues
11. You Win Again
12. Petrol Blues

...and these?!

"Not the way to go", "Some people tell me", "Lonely at the top", "Fiji jim", "The Way She Held Me Tight", "I need you".

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WilliamPatrickMaynard
ABKCO has made use of more than just those two songs. ABKCO released "Sway" and "Bitch" on SINGLES 1968-1971 and back in the mid-seventies included several songs from EXILE and STICKY FINGERS on a radio promo. What ABKCO can't do is reissue STICKY FINGERS despite their rights to the individual songs. It's probably simpler and more accurate to consider it a shared ownership between ABKCO and Promotone.

Then how were Decca and ABKCO compensated for the lack of a final single? Or did the trick of coming up with @#$%& blues actually work?

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WilliamPatrickMaynard
What I found interesting is that when "Good Time Women" was finally released, PromoPub controlled the publishing despite that song being registered by ABKCO back in the early seventies. I don't think the Stones pulled a fast one, it is simply indicative of the better relationship they have with Jody Klein where much more give and take is possible on both sides.

This might also be the reason why the tongue logo is on the ABKCO LP box set.

ABKCO wasn't requesting a final single, Decca was. They received a single, but it was unreleasable - a nice two-finger salute from the Stones to a label they found increasingly frustrating. The contract officially ended when Decca/Teldec and (Stateside) London issued GET YER YA-YA'S OUT.

Both Decca and ABKCO/London claimed rights to compilations for a number of years thereafter. The rights to compile the singles from STICKY FINGERS, ABKCO controlling publishing rights on all material written prior to 1971, and various other stipulations (such as restrictions on live recordings) were part of the protracted settlements between all parties.

As late as 1984, Mick was taking ABKCO and Decca/Teldec to court over royalties and compilations including archival releases. It was only in the late eighties that the relationship with ABKCO started to turn around perhaps due to CD's bringing all concerned income once more.

I burned a cd of the best bootleg versions I could dig up of the 10 known songs in order. Interesting album. Lots of country (Do You Think, No Spare Parts, We Had It All, You Win Again) and a little rockabilly (Claudine, Tallahassee Lassie) with some pretty good bluesy rockers (So Young, When Youre gone).

Depending on the "tweaking", I think this is going to be pretty good.