Is there anything worse for a parent than outliving their children?

No, definitely

Quote
71Tele
She did that great album, what, four years ago? She was unable to sustain it or even follow it.

No. No release since then so that's not really a fair or even accurate point to make. Had she released another album since then then it would possibly be applicable. Rehab was a huge single. She got a lot of attention and focus for a little while there. Then she just went away.

On the other hand Nirvana had momentum - a few EPs, three original albums, two of which went #1, with successful singles/video singles to help; the MTV Unplugged In New York show; a compilation while they were still a working band (Incesticide), consistent press and airplay. Of course, since then there's Unplugged In New York the album, which also hit #1, a traditional live album (another #1 album), a box set and two issues of a greatest hits comp. But they may have been on the verge of doing what REM did with Automatic For The People - moving/shifting to a whole new level of existence. I say REM because it's a good example of what they did and Kurt hinted at doing a album similar to AFTP. You Know You're Right doesn't reveal that at all, of course, but some of the interviews he did before he killed himself did.

So Kurt's death had a little bit more mileage behind it than Amy's death in terms of artistic integrity or what, I don't know, career? Amy, though, had yet to really grab it. Maybe she could have if she'd released something 2 years after Rehab and Back To Black. Unlike Nirvana with all that Kurt chose to go through and still record, do videos and tour without any lengthy gap of time. Amy basically imploded and was seemingly unable to work or incapable working.

And then she died. And it's truly a shame.

Quote
jpasc95
for the moment we still don't know what she died of despite the recent autopsy.
no heart attack...maybe a suicide with pills ? the english police has rejected the murder's trail

IMO, she drank herself to death. 'Friends' have reported that she had 'blacked out' after during several vodka binges on the week of her death. I can only speculate, but Amy was definitely one hell of a drinker.

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Is there anything worse for a parent than outliving their children?

I'm in that club.

Quote
DragonSky
So Kurt's death had a little bit more mileage behind it than Amy's death in terms of artistic integrity or what, I don't know, career? Amy, though, had yet to really grab it. Maybe she could have if she'd released something 2 years after Rehab and Back To Black. Unlike Nirvana with all that Kurt chose to go through and still record, do videos and tour without any lengthy gap of time. Amy basically imploded and was seemingly unable to work or incapable working.

And then she died. And it's truly a shame.

The thing is though, talent and fame don't always go hand in hand. Of course in many ways it would be nice if they did. It is easier to cherry pick people who perhaps have a degree of talent, or who can at least get by with a little, but have a better defence mechnanism or a better suited temperament to the rigours of fame. To a point that can happen with manufactured artists. When expectations are so high, as with Amy (unlike manufactured artists) there is bound to be an even greater pressure to live up to expectations, and Amy had no one to share the burden, and experience with, unlike members of a group, or band. That's doesn't excuse her behaviour fully, but it does make it a little easier to have understanding. Post 'Back To Black' Amy found it increasingly difficult to apply herself. Expectations were incredibly high for her standard to be maintained - that's singing and songwriting - and she just wasn't up to the challenge. That's not to say she didn't have an incredible gift within her talent for making music, she just wasn't cut out for everything that went with it. It would be interesting to hear the songs she had completed at the time of her death, if, or more likely when, they are released.

Quote
Brue

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Is there anything worse for a parent than outliving their children?

I'm in that club.

sad to hear that

Quote
Brue

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Is there anything worse for a parent than outliving their children?

I'm in that club.

Me too Brue, very sorry to hear that.

quite a nice and smart text written for amy:

[www.guardian.co.uk]

first i have to say
.....its so good the discusion is now more about the music than the drug alco in take
still it feels like....a career move kind of talk...wich feels like a money wise kind of way to look at her death.
these only (sic) 2 albums, made so many people happy for a while.....still cant believe it....NORWAY too so sad this song

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
tatters
A lot of people have mentioned her small body of work, but during their lifetimes, Hendrix released only three albums

Then there's the singles, Band of Gypsys live album, the recordings from before he was famous and touring schedules that'd make most modern musicians crumble.

But you can add several EPs, live sessions, performances etc available online etc....when you talk about output, I think that's comparable, so its a mute point. This is a different age, where an artists work is readily available online.....
Amy was also rumored to have recorded tracks in the last year, so we shall see. To me, that's on par for the Janis/Jimi/Morrison comparisons in regard to output. Whether her legacy and influence will last like theirs..is a matter of time.

When I hear "Rehab" on the radio, I can't help but think, "Well, look at you now, girl."

At her funeral, Carole King's "So Far Away" was played, Amy's favorite song.
I felt compelled to listen to the song, always one of my favorites, and found all these young Amy fans discovering the song....that's a nice thing.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-26 23:51 by stupidguy2.

"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Quote
Big Al
Utterly tragic. Amy was a very talented girl.

to drewmaster

you prick


your not from Camden town or indeed from London town you ignorant fool..

I pity morons like you, coments like that make you sound like a tosser

This country has lost a true soul/blues singer...

we don't have that many to loose..

hang your head in shame.. fool

anytime anywhere

Rotterdam- off the record.

Quote
stupidguy2

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
tatters
A lot of people have mentioned her small body of work, but during their lifetimes, Hendrix released only three albums

Then there's the singles, Band of Gypsys live album, the recordings from before he was famous and touring schedules that'd make most modern musicians crumble.

But you can add several EPs, live sessions, performances etc available online etc....when you talk about output, I think that's comparable, so its a mute point. This is a different age, where an artists work is readily available online.....
Amy was also rumored to have recorded tracks in the last year, so we shall see. To me, that's on par for the Janis/Jimi/Morrison comparisons in regard to output. Whether her legacy and influence will last like theirs..is a matter of time.

It's also a different age in the sense that artists are no longer expected to release a new album every six to 12 months, as they did during Hendrix-Joplin-Morrison era.

what a great loss

with love

Quote
tatters

It's also a different age in the sense that artists are no longer expected to release a new album every six to 12 months, as they did during Hendrix-Joplin-Morrison era.

And in the sense that, in Janis and Jimi's day, they were two very dominant, prominent artists in a more narrow music culture...the world was smaller back then, smaller pond, if you will..
Now, everything, because of technology, is so splintered....that its alot harder to really stand out or gain a following or transcend music.

Quote
Brue
I'm in that club.

I am very sorry Brue. Must be awful.

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

Quote
Silver Dagger

Quote
Brue

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Is there anything worse for a parent than outliving their children?

I'm in that club.

Me too Brue, very sorry to hear that.

Was sorry to read this, sorry for you both.

Hadley Freeman

guardian.co.uk,

'What have we learned from the death of Amy Winehouse?" asked the hapless MSNBC news anchor. As this question was posed on Sunday morning when nothing was yet known about Winehouse's death other than the sad fact of it, the only answer to this question was, well, we seem to have learned that celebrities die.

Yet even though this is proved many times every year, certain elements of the media still get the reporting of these deaths very badly wrong. Which is remarkable, considering how eagerly some tabloid newspapers and websites wish for certain celebrities – Winehouse very much included – to die, judging by their tendency to harass them and laugh at them to a degree that would make a psychotic playground bully blush.

There is nothing a tabloid likes more than a predictable story arc, and by "predictable" I mean the one that they think would sell the most copies of their publication. Hence the ongoing obsession with the Jennifer Aniston, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie trifecta, and the eternal insinuation in all stories about them that, one day, Brad'n'Jen will reunite. (SPOILER ALERT: They won't.) Jude Law and Sienna Miller played the same part in the UK until they did reunite and promptly broke up again, going disobediently off the Happily Ever After script that the weekly gossip magazines had mapped out for them. Didn't they know they were supposed to stay together for ever, if only so we could admire Sienna's wedding dress and see Jude married off before all of his hair disappears?

Winehouse, was, for a while, the female counterpart to Pete Doherty: the celebrity the British tabloids trailed around London (mysteriously, these tabloids always seemed to know where they'd be), cackling with glee at, simultaneously, their wild life ("Caner of the year!") and their visible decline. To read tabloid journalists berating the drug dealers for their part in Winehouse's death is to hear the sound of a pot calling the kettle, if not black exactly, then certainly kitchen-based.

But Doherty and Winehouse both seemed to go off-script by daring to survive, if not quite being fully alive. Until this weekend, when Winehouse at last gave the media a collective orgasm of prurient crocodile tears by dying. At last we can wheel out those pre-written columns as we photograph her body being wheeled out of her house!

Which returns us to the only thing to learn from Winehouse's far-too-early death: celebrities die and many people appear at a loss as to how to cover such events. So here is a handy guide about what not to do when a celebrity you've been tormenting for years dies.

1. Don't print unproven conjectures about how they died.

A certain downmarket British tabloid * had two theories about Winehouse's death on its front page on Sunday, one claiming she "drank herself to death" and the other claiming she'd bought a buffet of drugs the night before. Now, I know you want to give your readers voyeuristic if not necessarily factually based thrills but make sure your claims don't contradict each other, at least not on the front of your website.

2. Don't use their corpse to bang your own drum.

Melanie Phillips waited a whole 48 hours before using Winehouse's death to launch into her favourite subject: "Britain has degenerated." But the prize goes to the Huffington Post with its article, "Amy Winehouse's Untimely Death is a Wake Up Call for Small Business Owners." Yes, and what does it tell us about the importance of organic vegetables? Stay classy, Arianna.

3. Don't use it to promote yourself.

More for fellow celebrities, this. U2 dedicated Stuck in a Moment to Winehouse, a gesture that would be more touching if (a) Bono hadn't already claimed it was for Michael Hutchence (one dead singer is the same as the next, eh?) and (b) if Winehouse hadn't famously told Bono to shut up at an awards ceremony and therefore, presumably was not a U2 fan. As for you, MIA, releasing a song called 27 pegged to Winehouse's death makes the time you claimed Gaddafi was "one of my style icons" look relatively tasteful.

4. And speaking of 27, enough about 27.

Yes, Winehouse died at 27. And so did some other celebrities! But how many died in the month of March? Or at 10:19pm? This 27 Club nonsense awkwardly hoiks separate individuals together and insinuates that their deaths are part of a great rock'n'roll tradition.

5. And speaking of tradition, enough of the "death foretold" nonsense.

Yes, Winehouse had her troubles but there was nothing "inevitable" about her or anyone's tragically premature death. I interviewed her in 2004 and she was funny, confident and healthy. I next saw her three years later at Benicassim, emaciated, disoriented and literally falling down the steps of an outside toilet. That was not "foretold". That was shocking.

6. Don't print photos or details that you gleaned through possibly distasteful means.

It would be very interesting to know how certain tabloids attained such detailed knowledge of Winehouse's alleged final drug purchase *, say, or how they always knew where to find her to take photos of her.

7. No puns, please.

It is a de rigueur part of covering the death of a celebrity – you gotta pun on the title of one of their songs or films, right? Actually, you don't. The New York Post's "They Tried to Make Her Go To Rehab, She Said No No No" was as predictable as it was stupid. But it was an American breakfast TV show that really, hopefully, took this schtick to its nadir, punning, sorta, on Winehouse's song title You Know I'm No Good to You Know I'm Dead.

I'm sure we're all looking forward to the Back to Black headlines following her funeral.






* The Daily Mail - no @#$%& surprise there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-28 14:57 by Gazza.

Quote
Gazza
3. Don't use it to promote yourself.

More for fellow celebrities, this. U2 dedicated Stuck in a Moment to Winehouse, a gesture that would be more touching if (a) Bono hadn't already claimed it was for Michael Hutchence (one dead singer is the same as the next, eh?) and (b) if Winehouse hadn't famously told Bono to shut up at an awards ceremony and therefore, presumably was not a U2 fan.

The point is generally correct, just the example seems a bit strange to me. U2 do that quite regularry in their shows, that they dedicate a song or do a snippet when someone dies (M. Jackson, C. Clemons...) I think they do it in a tasteful way and they surely don't do it to promote themselves. Why would they do it? To promote themselves in front of 80 000 their fans who payed to see them? True is, that the song was written for M. Hutchence, but I can't see a reason why could they not do it for Amy one night. And that they were not great friends, would it be better approach to ignore her death in "revenge" for not liking U2? Because since U2 do it really regularry, it would raise questions why didn't they do it this time. I just don't see anything wrong in what U2 did and they certainly didn't do that to promote themselves.

Other than that a good article. Nothing groundbreaking, just a description of a state of journalism today. Unfrotunately the same applies to "serious" media these days, not just The Sun and such.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-28 18:56 by Happy24.

for german speaking iorrians: tonight (thursday 28.7) on VOX 22:00, "das leben und sterben der amy winehouse". 90min documentary. terrible titel. lets see if its any good...

Quote
Happy24

Quote
Gazza
3. Don't use it to promote yourself.

More for fellow celebrities, this. U2 dedicated Stuck in a Moment to Winehouse, a gesture that would be more touching if (a) Bono hadn't already claimed it was for Michael Hutchence (one dead singer is the same as the next, eh?) and (b) if Winehouse hadn't famously told Bono to shut up at an awards ceremony and therefore, presumably was not a U2 fan.

The point is generally correct, just the example seems a bit strange to me. U2 do that quite regularry in their shows, that they dedicate a song or do a snippet when someone dies (M. Jackson, C. Clamons...) I think they do it in a tasteful way and they surely don't do it to promote themselves. Why would they do it? To promote themselves in fron to 80 000 their fans who payed to see them? True is, that the song was written for M. Hutchence, but I can't see a reason why could they not do it for Amy one night. And that they were not great friends, would it be better approach to ignore her death in "revenge" for not liking U2? Because since U2 do it really regularry, it would raise questions why didn't they do it this time. I just don't see anything wrong in what U2 did and they certainly didn't do that to promote themselves.

That bit I agree with you about, in fairness. If youre playing at your own show in front of 90,000 of your own fans, you hardly need to promote yourself. Their tribute to Clarence Clemons last month was very touching.

Quote
Silver Dagger

Quote
Brue

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Is there anything worse for a parent than outliving their children?

I'm in that club.

Me too Brue, very sorry to hear that.

So am I for both of you .
I am a mother of an eleven and a half years old daughter .

didn't know this, just came across it...

Mick Jagger and his daughter Elizabeth recorded backing vocals for the song (Stuck in a Moment), although these did not make the final mix.

I am guessing everyone read that her passing away shot her music sales back up on the charts? [www.usatoday.com] I dont know what to say about that...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-28 18:41 by Max'sKansasCity.

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
I am guessing everyone read that her passing away shot her music sales back up on the charts? [www.usatoday.com] I dont know what to say about that...

it happens all the time.

[www.dailytelegraph.com.au]

No offense meant but there is something wrong in that video.

Many kippas showed that her father is Jewish but as far as I know, tattoos are forbidden in Judaism and a burry as well .
Or at least it's like this in France .

I'm no fan of tattoos personally.That's why I wanted to have a Stones tatoo but never made it .
I hope I am not offending the people here who have tatoos ,it's just a personal thought that goes with my story .
Given that one of the ways the Nazis identified Jews was by tattooing numbers onto their arms, you can see why I might have an issue with them.

BTW,dead.flowers , the video you posted is a real tribute to Amy .