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Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: March 17, 2011 23:39

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
vudicus
Is there any definite proof that Keith used the acoustic for Wild Horses?
During all other 1970s performaces of this song he played it on the electric.

I can imagine he used the acoustic for "Prodigal Song" but wouldn't be surprised if he went electric on "wild Horses" as he also does on "Dead Flowers"

No I'm afraid no definete proof. My comment about the acoustic being used for Wild Horses could very well be wrong.
But I'm fairly certain I've seen a photo of Rolling Stones at TOTP 1971, doing "Wild Horses", in which Keith used the same acoustic guitar....or a quite like one. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't do electric in concert....as TOTP was a playback with live vocals anyway.

If somebody has a TOTP "Wild Horses" photo....please put it up here

Can't recall where I've seen that (or *those*) photos......hmmmm...

It would be quite an experiment to amplify an acoustic in '71 with these banks of amps behind it...it could be a reason why they only did it one or two times.

Mathijs

They wouldn't have amplified the acoustic guitar with one of the onstage amps. More likely it would have been miked and sent through the P.A. like they did with the steel guitar on "Love In Vain" and "Prodigal Son" on the '69 tour, and "Sweet Virginia" in '72.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Date: March 21, 2011 00:24

Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
vudicus
Is there any definite proof that Keith used the acoustic for Wild Horses?
During all other 1970s performaces of this song he played it on the electric.

I can imagine he used the acoustic for "Prodigal Song" but wouldn't be surprised if he went electric on "wild Horses" as he also does on "Dead Flowers"

No I'm afraid no definete proof. My comment about the acoustic being used for Wild Horses could very well be wrong.
But I'm fairly certain I've seen a photo of Rolling Stones at TOTP 1971, doing "Wild Horses", in which Keith used the same acoustic guitar....or a quite like one. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't do electric in concert....as TOTP was a playback with live vocals anyway.

If somebody has a TOTP "Wild Horses" photo....please put it up here

Can't recall where I've seen that (or *those*) photos......hmmmm...

It would be quite an experiment to amplify an acoustic in '71 with these banks of amps behind it...it could be a reason why they only did it one or two times.

Mathijs

They wouldn't have amplified the acoustic guitar with one of the onstage amps. More likely it would have been miked and sent through the P.A. like they did with the steel guitar on "Love In Vain" and "Prodigal Son" on the '69 tour, and "Sweet Virginia" in '72.

I can't speak for Mathijs, but I don't think that is what he was saying at all.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: March 21, 2011 10:55

Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
vudicus
Is there any definite proof that Keith used the acoustic for Wild Horses?
During all other 1970s performaces of this song he played it on the electric.

I can imagine he used the acoustic for "Prodigal Song" but wouldn't be surprised if he went electric on "wild Horses" as he also does on "Dead Flowers"

No I'm afraid no definete proof. My comment about the acoustic being used for Wild Horses could very well be wrong.
But I'm fairly certain I've seen a photo of Rolling Stones at TOTP 1971, doing "Wild Horses", in which Keith used the same acoustic guitar....or a quite like one. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't do electric in concert....as TOTP was a playback with live vocals anyway.

If somebody has a TOTP "Wild Horses" photo....please put it up here

Can't recall where I've seen that (or *those*) photos......hmmmm...

It would be quite an experiment to amplify an acoustic in '71 with these banks of amps behind it...it could be a reason why they only did it one or two times.

Mathijs

They wouldn't have amplified the acoustic guitar with one of the onstage amps. More likely it would have been miked and sent through the P.A. like they did with the steel guitar on "Love In Vain" and "Prodigal Son" on the '69 tour, and "Sweet Virginia" in '72.

Of course they would send it through the PA and stage monitors, but that is the main problem: it is very difficult to amplify an acoustic like this together with electric guitar, bass and drums. In '71 that would be quite a dissaster. It wasn't until the contact mikes for acoustics worked properly in about 73/74 and the piezo element in the late 70's that it is possible to have an acoustic amplified with a full scale band.

On the pictures of Newcastle you can see only one acoustic, so they very well could have had the full band playing with only Taylor on acoustic, but this then could also be the reason why they dropped it after only one gig.

Mathijs

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: March 21, 2011 14:45

Maybe it was played with jagger on vocals, Taylor acoustic, Keith sitting next to jagger giving backup vocals? Every chance there was no electric guitar used during wild horses in 1971

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: March 21, 2011 18:58

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
vudicus
Is there any definite proof that Keith used the acoustic for Wild Horses?
During all other 1970s performaces of this song he played it on the electric.

I can imagine he used the acoustic for "Prodigal Song" but wouldn't be surprised if he went electric on "wild Horses" as he also does on "Dead Flowers"

No I'm afraid no definete proof. My comment about the acoustic being used for Wild Horses could very well be wrong.
But I'm fairly certain I've seen a photo of Rolling Stones at TOTP 1971, doing "Wild Horses", in which Keith used the same acoustic guitar....or a quite like one. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't do electric in concert....as TOTP was a playback with live vocals anyway.

If somebody has a TOTP "Wild Horses" photo....please put it up here

Can't recall where I've seen that (or *those*) photos......hmmmm...

It would be quite an experiment to amplify an acoustic in '71 with these banks of amps behind it...it could be a reason why they only did it one or two times.

Mathijs

They wouldn't have amplified the acoustic guitar with one of the onstage amps. More likely it would have been miked and sent through the P.A. like they did with the steel guitar on "Love In Vain" and "Prodigal Son" on the '69 tour, and "Sweet Virginia" in '72.

Of course they would send it through the PA and stage monitors, but that is the main problem: it is very difficult to amplify an acoustic like this together with electric guitar, bass and drums. In '71 that would be quite a dissaster. It wasn't until the contact mikes for acoustics worked properly in about 73/74 and the piezo element in the late 70's that it is possible to have an acoustic amplified with a full scale band.

On the pictures of Newcastle you can see only one acoustic, so they very well could have had the full band playing with only Taylor on acoustic, but this then could also be the reason why they dropped it after only one gig.

Mathijs[/quote

I misunderstood Mathijs' statement, but who knows why they dropped "Wild Horses" after one or two shows. It may have something to do with the problem of amplifying the acoustic guitar (although they could have done it on electric as they did in '75) or perhaps they thought it was just too slow. If we had a tape to listen to perhaps we could better judge. The Stones are famous for playing great and lesser-known songs for the first show or two or a tour (usually with less then stellar results) then dropping them before they get a chance to develop into something good. They still do that.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: teleblaster ()
Date: March 21, 2011 19:01

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Maybe it was played with jagger on vocals, Taylor acoustic, Keith sitting next to jagger giving backup vocals? Every chance there was no electric guitar used during wild horses in 1971

Nah, don't see it, I'm afraid. Keith singing without guitar is surely a much more recent development. And what about the guitar solo in Wild Horses?

When did Mick start playing acoustic on stage? Again later than '71 I reckon. '81? Did he play electric onstage before that? Fingerprint File '75?

Just had another look at the photo. There doesn't seem to be a pick-up on the guitar (no under-saddle jobs in those days) and it also being carried by the roadie / tech. Maybe it wasn't actually used at the gig - had just been used backstage or whatever. The whole stage set up is very informal compared to recent years, so he could have been carrying it acrooss the stage. It seems to be in his hands, rather than leaning on anything. Maybe it wasn't used onstage at all (or was used by Jagger as an "unplugged" prop).

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: March 21, 2011 19:08

Quote
TornAndFried
I misunderstood Mathijs' statement, but who knows why they dropped "Wild Horses" after one or two shows. It may have something to do with the problem of amplifying the acoustic guitar (although they could have done it on electric as they did in '75) or perhaps they thought it was just too slow.

Jagger mentioned in a 70s interview; think it was from 1971 actually....can't remember where I read it; that people didn't know what to do with "Wild Horses" - it was too slow; and also completely new to the audience
Anybody recall the exact words?

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: March 21, 2011 21:28

Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
TornAndFried
I misunderstood Mathijs' statement, but who knows why they dropped "Wild Horses" after one or two shows. It may have something to do with the problem of amplifying the acoustic guitar (although they could have done it on electric as they did in '75) or perhaps they thought it was just too slow.

Jagger mentioned in a 70s interview; think it was from 1971 actually....can't remember where I read it; that people didn't know what to do with "Wild Horses" - it was too slow; and also completely new to the audience
Anybody recall the exact words?

That was the NME interview, Jagger stated that the audience didn't know how to react.

Mathijs

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: March 21, 2011 22:18

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Erik_Snow
Jagger mentioned in a 70s interview; think it was from 1971 actually....can't remember where I read it; that people didn't know what to do with "Wild Horses" - it was too slow; and also completely new to the audience
Anybody recall the exact words?
That was the NME interview, Jagger stated that the audience didn't know how to react.
Mathijs

Yes, that's how it went, thanks

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07 ()
Date: March 22, 2011 04:08

I still think it's probably more likely that they did "Wild Horses" on electric guitars in '71. Perhaps I'm wrong, I just think it's more likely that the acoustic guitar pictured was used for "Prodigal Son", which is tuned in open E or D, so there would have had to have been a second acoustic for "Wild Horses" or it was done on electrics. I suspect the latter but we'll probably never know for sure unless somebody uncovers some photographs or a recording.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: March 22, 2011 17:17

Quote
Tumblin_Dice_07
I still think it's probably more likely that they did "Wild Horses" on electric guitars in '71. Perhaps I'm wrong, I just think it's more likely that the acoustic guitar pictured was used for "Prodigal Son", which is tuned in open E or D, so there would have had to have been a second acoustic for "Wild Horses" or it was done on electrics. I suspect the latter but we'll probably never know for sure unless somebody uncovers some photographs or a recording.

Assuming they did play PS, it indeed would be more logical WH was played on electrics.

Mathijs

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07 ()
Date: March 22, 2011 22:52

Quote
Mathijs


Assuming they did play PS, it indeed would be more logical WH was played on electrics.

Mathijs

Right well the reason I say that is because "Prodigal Son" was played at other shows on that tour, so I assumed it was played in Newcastle but then again, ya never know.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: May 9, 2011 12:23

For a minute there, I thought we had a footage glimpse of Newcastle 1971, but it's not Newcastle after all.
I'm bumping this thread as there's a thread at "Hot Stuff" concerning a previously unknown 1969/1970/1971 clip. Anybody know which show this is taken from ? link: [www.iorr.org]

Even myself comes to short, when it comes to dating that clip.
Could it be from 1971? Maybe! If so, it's the only UK Tour 1971 footage that I've ever seen.

And yes - it's damn funny to be discussing something like this....a grainy, blackandwhite clip, which lasts for as about 1 second



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-09 15:40 by Erik_Snow.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: keefbajaga ()
Date: May 9, 2011 12:42

haven't you seen the 1971 live footage "At the Marquee?"eye popping smiley

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: May 9, 2011 12:49

Quote
keefbajaga
haven't you seen the 1971 live footage "At the Marquee?"eye popping smiley

Yes I have. But Marquee 1971 is a performance made for TV - with hired audience, just like Rock'n Roll Circus 1968
Marquee Club is not a part of the 1971 UK Tour - it took place 2 weeks after the real 1971 tour ended.

I thought about specifying this in my post above, in case somebody would mention Marquee Club 1971....but didn't



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-09 15:44 by Erik_Snow.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: MadMax ()
Date: May 9, 2011 20:38

That's AMAZING News! We get this in 2011! Shows we still can be surprised about setlist-spotting!

Nice One!

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: straycat58 ()
Date: May 9, 2011 23:19

On NME March 13, 1971 there is the review of the Coventry show (maybe the 1st show) and is reported that Wild Horses was played in Coventry as well.

"Jagger then asked for the audience approval to premier some new material, the first being the hauntingly beautiful Wild Horses. A slow country tune which is destined to become yet another Stones classic".


Not only, the reporter writes that the band started with JJF, followed by Live with me and (QUOTE) AN OBSCURE TRACK FROM FLOWERS COLLECTION WAS NEXT, PRIOR TO (...) STRAY CAT BLUES.(UNQUOTE)

If this is true, the third track of the setlist was not DEAD FLOWERS as we thought, but a track from the FLOWERS LP.
The obscure track could be Sittin on a fence , Backstreet girl ? Sounds impossible. More probable the reporter listened to Dead Flowers and misleaded the song with the compilation title.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-09 23:26 by straycat58.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: straycat58 ()
Date: May 9, 2011 23:38

Now, I just found RECORD MIRROR, 13th March 1971. with the review of Newcastle by LON GODDARD:

Opening JJF followed by Live with me.

Third song:TAKE ME DOWN LITTLE SUZIE (hence: Dead flowers) .

Then: Stray cat blues, Love in vain, Prodigal son, Midnight rambler , Wild horses, HTW, Satisfaction, Little queenie, SFM.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-09 23:44 by straycat58.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: GravityBoy ()
Date: May 9, 2011 23:44

The photos of the gig are wonderful.

It must have been great to see them close up in such humble surroundings.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: keefbajaga ()
Date: May 10, 2011 01:15

Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
keefbajaga
haven't you seen the 1971 live footage "At the Marquee?"eye popping smiley

Yes I have. But Marquee 1971 is a performance made for TV - with hired audience, just like Rock'n Roll Circus 1968
Marquee Club is not a part of the 1971 UK Tour - it took place 2 weeks after the real 1971 tour ended.

I thought about specifying this in my post above, in case somebody would mention Marquee Club 1971....but didn't

what about the Leeds University gig? (one of the famous bootleg recordings)

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: May 13, 2011 14:51

Quote
straycat58
Not only, the reporter writes that the band started with JJF, followed by Live with me and (QUOTE) AN OBSCURE TRACK FROM FLOWERS COLLECTION WAS NEXT, PRIOR TO (...) STRAY CAT BLUES.(UNQUOTE)

If this is true, the third track of the setlist was not DEAD FLOWERS as we thought, but a track from the FLOWERS LP.
The obscure track could be Sittin on a fence , Backstreet girl ? Sounds impossible. More probable the reporter listened to Dead Flowers and misleaded the song with the compilation title.

I mentioned this on page 1 of this thread....IMO, the reporter was obviously thinking about "Dead Flowers" when writing the article. No way that they would play any "Flowers" tracks

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: May 13, 2011 14:51

Quote
keefbajaga
Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
keefbajaga
haven't you seen the 1971 live footage "At the Marquee?"eye popping smiley

Yes I have. But Marquee 1971 is a performance made for TV - with hired audience, just like Rock'n Roll Circus 1968
Marquee Club is not a part of the 1971 UK Tour - it took place 2 weeks after the real 1971 tour ended.

I thought about specifying this in my post above, in case somebody would mention Marquee Club 1971....but didn't

what about the Leeds University gig? (one of the famous bootleg recordings)

Yes what about Leeds ? What do you mean ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-05-13 15:21 by Erik_Snow.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Date: May 13, 2011 15:02

The Leeds gig is lazy and messy, imo. A very good Stray Cat Blues, though.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: May 13, 2011 15:22

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The Leeds gig is lazy and messy, imo. A very good Stray Cat Blues, though.
....and Let It Rock....and Satisfaction
Rest is.....well, I wouldn't call it "messy" at all - but just "very very laidback"

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: March 21, 2013 22:05


(not taken from the link below)

About 10 previously unknown Newcastle 1971 photos available here: [www.friendsreunited.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-21 22:21 by Erik_Snow.

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: VT22 ()
Date: March 21, 2013 22:53

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
nankerphlege
Interesting to see Keith and MT playing fender's not ampeg amps. Now we need a recording of this show. Very good research!

That's why the Leeds and Marquee shows feature such clean guitars, and are so mediocre in my opinion. At The Roundhouse probably the Ampegs where used again, as the guitars are much more overdriven.

Mathijs

Nothing wrong with Taylor's lead/sound in Leeds'71. Taking care of a good sound was one of his specialities.




Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Date: March 21, 2013 23:08

I agree about Let It Rock, Erik. Satisfaction, however, is not my favorite. I can't listen to that song without the riff being properly played...

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: CousinC ()
Date: January 15, 2015 04:32

Must have overlooked this interesting thread first time.
I think the Leeds gig was quite mediocre.But still some good songs like Let it rock and the unusual Satisfaction rendition.In those days they were still playing around with some of their songs. I liked that.

And from the begining when I first got the bootleg I liked Midnight Rambler. Particularly the beginning of the song and especially the guitar sound.I think it's been different to all other tours.Which guitar/amps did he use there?

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: January 15, 2015 05:54

What would we do without our intrepid researchers? Now, please find us audio. smoking smiley

Re: Wild Horses and Can't You Hear Me Knockin WAS performed LIVE in Newcastle 1971 !
Posted by: kleermaker ()
Date: January 15, 2015 19:30

Quote
CousinC
Must have overlooked this interesting thread first time.
I think the Leeds gig was quite mediocre.But still some good songs like Let it rock and the unusual Satisfaction rendition.In those days they were still playing around with some of their songs. I liked that.

And from the begining when I first got the bootleg I liked Midnight Rambler. Particularly the beginning of the song and especially the guitar sound.I think it's been different to all other tours.Which guitar/amps did he use there?

One has to listen to Leeds in the best audio quality thus far available! Then dare to say that it wasn't a good gig!



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