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Palace Revolution 2000

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DandelionPowderman

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Palace Revolution 2000
Don't you guys think that MM maybe got it wrong? The song they are talking about seems to be after "Rambler". That could very well be "Bitch". It was played there, and it was a new track from Sticky Fingers. Has the horns, and it wold be understandable for MM to get it wrong.
Jean Marie can't be called a 'source'. JM put great books together, but they are compilations of other people's articles.

Could be, but what about the description of Taylor's playing - on what NME named as CYHMK?

Where is a quote by NME mentioning CYHMK?

I meant Melody Maker:


«[....] The rest of the set is built on the emotional platform created by that number ["Midnight Rambler"] A new song follows, "Can't You Hear Me Knocking", fast and jumpy in the same vein as "Jumpin Jack Flash" marred only by some flat picking by Keith on his plexiglass model. His gutty tone makes way for Taylor's more refined approach. Jagger retires for a moment to the sidelines, puts on his cap, and then turns to Jim Price, as if to say "going all right ennit". Another very melodic, new cut called "Wild Horses"- "they couldn't drag me away" sweeps melodically in. [....]"
(from Melody Maker 03/71)»

But, but... Keith didn't use his Dan Armstrong for open G-tunes!

Must be Bitch, and "Taylor's refined playing" must be the riff, then?

Such an interesting period for the Stones. This is them at the "peak of the peak".

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DandelionPowderman
But, but... Keith didn't use his Dan Armstrong for open G-tunes!

Must be Bitch, and "Taylor's refined playing" must be the riff, then?

Yes, Dandy that is what I meant to. I was basing what I think on the MM write up. BTW - I am very happy to see these threaDS devoted to the 70 Europe and the Goodbye Britain tours. My favorites.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-27 05:07 by Palace Revolution 2000.

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DandelionPowderman

I meant Melody Maker:


«[....] The rest of the set is built on the emotional platform created by that number ["Midnight Rambler"] A new song follows, "Can't You Hear Me Knocking", fast and jumpy in the same vein as "Jumpin Jack Flash" marred only by some flat picking by Keith on his plexiglass model. His gutty tone makes way for Taylor's more refined approach. Jagger retires for a moment to the sidelines, puts on his cap, and then turns to Jim Price, as if to say "going all right ennit". Another very melodic, new cut called "Wild Horses"- "they couldn't drag me away" sweeps melodically in. [....]"
(from Melody Maker 03/71)»

I wouldn't call CYHMK "fast and jumpy" and it's not like JJF at all. "Bitch" however could fit MM description.

Not true never happened

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potus43
Not true never happened

Fake News eh?

It's a bit "complicated, these three 1971 threads,but I suggest to come up with reliable input instead of "read here, heard there".
Here is the info of a live registration of the March 6, Coventry 1971 (1st) concert:

VGP-095 602890X CD (12 songs):

Jumping Jack Flash
Live With Me
Dead Flowers
Stray Cat Blues
Love In Vain
Midnight Rambler
Bitch
Honky Tonk Women
Satisfaction
Little Queenie
Brown Sugar
Street Fighting Man

This exact setlist was also done in:
Coventry 2nd show
Glasgow both shows (March 8)
Bristol both shows (March 9)
Brighton both shows (March 10)

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georgie48
This exact setlist was also done in:
Coventry 2nd show
Glasgow both shows (March 8)
Bristol both shows (March 9)
Brighton both shows (March 10)

Can you please proof this statement?

Kingbeebuzz was at the Coventry shows, and he says "Prodigal Son" was only played at the late show...

[www.iorr.org]

So setlists differ...

Regarding the press reports one might have to consider that Sticky Fingers was not yet released. Therefore, the media persons must have been unsure about a new songs title and might have preferred to skip mentioning it instead of being embarrassed about the real name on the long player.

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TheBadRabbit

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DandelionPowderman

I meant Melody Maker:


«[....] The rest of the set is built on the emotional platform created by that number ["Midnight Rambler"] A new song follows, "Can't You Hear Me Knocking", fast and jumpy in the same vein as "Jumpin Jack Flash" marred only by some flat picking by Keith on his plexiglass model. His gutty tone makes way for Taylor's more refined approach. Jagger retires for a moment to the sidelines, puts on his cap, and then turns to Jim Price, as if to say "going all right ennit". Another very melodic, new cut called "Wild Horses"- "they couldn't drag me away" sweeps melodically in. [....]"
(from Melody Maker 03/71)»

I wouldn't call CYHMK "fast and jumpy" and it's not like JJF at all. "Bitch" however could fit MM description.

You're probably right. And Keith used the Dan Armstrong on Bitch.

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DandelionPowderman
But, but... Keith didn't use his Dan Armstrong for open G-tunes!

Must be Bitch, and "Taylor's refined playing" must be the riff, then?

Of Course, Keith did use Dan Armstrong guitars for Open-G Tuning on the 1971 tour! Check the DVD "Live at the Marquee": Brown Sugar!

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RockingLonestar

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DandelionPowderman
But, but... Keith didn't use his Dan Armstrong for open G-tunes!

Must be Bitch, and "Taylor's refined playing" must be the riff, then?

Of Course, Keith did use Dan Armstrong guitars for Open-G Tuning on the 1971 tour! Check the DVD "Live at the Marquee": Brown Sugar!

I forgot that one. Thanks

In Robert Greenfields piece on the 1971 tour (NME? Rolling Stone?) doesn't he discuss the new songs CYHMK and WH with Jagger on the way back after the gig? I seem to remember that Jagger stated something along the lines that CYHMK didn't work live and fell flat on his face.

Ps Keith had two Armstrongs, one for open G, and Fender amps where used on the real small venues as the SVT's had too much power.

Mathijs

" ... "Can't You Hear Me Knocking", fast and jumpy in the same vein as "Jumpin Jack Flash"... "

Hm. Doesn't really sound plausible, imo.

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Mathijs
In Robert Greenfields piece on the 1971 tour (NME? Rolling Stone?) doesn't he discuss the new songs CYHMK and WH with Jagger on the way back after the gig? I seem to remember that Jagger stated something along the lines that CYHMK didn't work live and fell flat on his face.

Mathijs

I remember this as well.
So there must be some truth in those tunes being played.

“Fast and jumpy” could definitely apply to CYHMK, especially live. Maybe it was played too fast? The opening riff is jumpy and there are a lot of notes. I wouldn’t discount it by a music critic’s choice of descriptive words.

Richards was most likely playing with a lot of gain to achieve distortion and Taylor’s “refined playing” was a clean tone, like his used in the outro.

Bobby Keys talked about this in detail and I think I even linked the article in this thread somewhere. You don’t just forget and make up a story like that. I believe both songs were played, and it’s unfortunate we don’t have recordings. Remember, Jagger loves to play the most recent material and shed the older stuff whenever possible. He talked about that a lot over the years.

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TravelinMan
“Fast and jumpy” could definitely apply to CYHMK

"Fast and jumpy ": yes - but (imo) definitely nót "in the same vein as JJF "...
And thàt was what I was trying to point out.

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CousinC

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Mathijs
In Robert Greenfields piece on the 1971 tour (NME? Rolling Stone?) doesn't he discuss the new songs CYHMK and WH with Jagger on the way back after the gig? I seem to remember that Jagger stated something along the lines that CYHMK didn't work live and fell flat on his face.

Mathijs

I remember this as well.
So there must be some truth in those tunes being played.

It is definitely not in the RS Greenfield article; the long one about the Goodbye Britain Tour. Maybe another writer said this?
I want to think that they played it; I just don't think so.

Well IMHO they probably played all those songs, or at least three of them, on the 1971 tour, but there's no real evidence: SFTD, IGTB (not only at Marquee), CYHMK, WH. May be we will never get a confirming tape.

By the way: on the (poor) 6CD box The Ultimate Masters (UE024) there's an sample of a rehearsal take of CYHMK from Burbank 72. A full rehearsal take without Jagger (Bernard on lead vocals) from Amsterdam 1999 is on the Rattlesnake Ahoy 03 release.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-30 21:01 by Monsoon Ragoon.

I understand the importance of the issue if a recording ever turns up. Until then I remain skeptical they were actually played. I don't care what Bill or Keith think they recall or what a journalist wrote at the time. None of that constitutes proof. Even Bill has made his share of mistakes. At the end of the day, it's irrelevant unless a recording survives. Otherwise it's just titles in a setlist for shows that are lost to time.

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Monsoon Ragoon
Well IMHO they probably played all those songs, or at least three of them, on the 1971 tour, but there's no real evidence: SFTD, IGTB (not only at Marquee), CYHMK, WH. May be we will never get a confirming tape.

By the way: on the (poor) 6CD box The Ultimate Masters (UE024) there's an sample of a rehearsal take of CYHMK from Burbank 72. A full rehearsal take without Jagger (Bernard on lead vocals) from Amsterdam 1999 is on the Rattlesnake Ahoy 03 release.

The Burbank 1972 recording is a fake, and the 1999 recording is a CD playback if I recall correctly. They did played the CD a couple of times, with some members playing along trying to figure out how it goes.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Monsoon Ragoon
Well IMHO they probably played all those songs, or at least three of them, on the 1971 tour, but there's no real evidence: SFTD, IGTB (not only at Marquee), CYHMK, WH. May be we will never get a confirming tape.

By the way: on the (poor) 6CD box The Ultimate Masters (UE024) there's an sample of a rehearsal take of CYHMK from Burbank 72. A full rehearsal take without Jagger (Bernard on lead vocals) from Amsterdam 1999 is on the Rattlesnake Ahoy 03 release.

The Burbank 1972 recording is a fake, and the 1999 recording is a CD playback if I recall correctly. They did played the CD a couple of times, with some members playing along trying to figure out how it goes.

Mathijs

It's easy to declare everything as a fake, then the topic is done. But Burbank is listed on nzentgraf.de so it won't be a fake probably. Nico is a real expert. And the 1999 rehearsal is totally different to the studio version. It's a genuine TOUR REHEARSAL take, of course not a playback of the LP. At least not only - I have to listen to it again.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-31 21:28 by Monsoon Ragoon.

Band rehearses over a CD playback - not a recording of a CD playback

I remember this, too, but it's been a while...



and my memory isn't what it used to be..

I don't think there's the LP version in the background on the Amsterdam rehearsal, there's just some reverb. But I'm no expert and the sound quality is like on a 1969 audience recording. It's a genuine rehearsal take anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-01-31 18:41 by Monsoon Ragoon.

Thinking about this again, mainly because it’s the white whale of potential recordings to me.

I have a couple theories:

We know Glyn Johns (a reliable and sober source) said Richards fell asleep at the Marquee whilst tuning his 12 string for “Wild Horses”. Now, does this mean Taylor also played acoustic or that Richards played it on an acoustic early in the tour? Certainly not. I’m fairly certain Taylor mimes the part at Top Of The Pops with a Gibson ES-335.

I’m thinking they either A) approached this song live like “Loving Cup” from 1972 where Richards played a mic’ed up acoustic and Taylor played electric or like “Angie” from 1973 with both guitarists on electric.

Until I see a pic of an acoustic on stage for Taylor, I don’t think they approached it like “Sweet Virginia”.

Was there an acoustic in the background for Taylor at the Marquee?

Thoughts?

Zombie thread

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exhpart
Zombie thread

Not quite... A few weeks ago i had a lenghty conversation with Dom Tarle. When he mentioned he photographed the entire UK tour of 1971 I jumped at the occasion to ak him if they did play these two tracks.

And....






... he couldn't remember! In fact he told me that night after night he was so caught into capturing the magic moment with his camera that he paid little attention to what was actually played onstage.

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exhpart
Zombie thread

What does it matter if the thread is 8 years old, since the concert we are discussing happened 48 years ago?
It's like saying "zombie copy of the bible" if it's an edition from the 16th century - like if a couple of hundred years means anything when the events in questions happened 1000s of years ago

Now I'm being difficult again; must be the rainy weather. Well, nevermind me, everybody