I love many of the Stones albums, of course, and especially the big four. However, after reacquainting myself with them once again, i believe BEGGARS BANQUET to be the only one, where i wouldn't choose to change a thing (however small). Whether that's relating to the quality of the songs, the length of the songs, the instrumentation, the sequencing etc. i think with BEGGARS BANQUET the Stones released their most perfect album (or as close to perfection you can possibly get).

Anyone else agree with me?

yes and no

its perfect but so is Let It Bleed

Sticky Fingers is too. I'd put Ya Ya's in there too..

which is the perfectest is up to the listener

and that's the funnest part..

It's the best one of the so-called "big four", imo.

I certainly wouldn't leave anything off...but if we could somehow have shoehorned JJF in there, I dunno, maybe before or after SFM?

It's imperfect, some what an updated Aftermath, both are much better than Let It Bleed.

I'd think of it as perfect if they'd kept a little bit more of the psych in there.

how are they 'much better' than LIB..?

Quote
His Majesty
It's imperfect, some what an updated Aftermath, both are much better than Let It Bleed.

I'd think of it as perfect if they'd kept a little bit more of the psych in there.

Both SFM and SCB, and maybe JSP have quite a bit of psychedelia left, though.

The album is kinda transitional. Should they keep the bluesy/folky psychedelia-flavoured rock or take the full step into classic rock? They chose the latter, to be a bit tabloid.

Aftermath should definitely be in a top 4 list of the band's output, imo.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
His Majesty
It's imperfect, some what an updated Aftermath, both are much better than Let It Bleed.

I'd think of it as perfect if they'd kept a little bit more of the psych in there.

Both SFM and SCB, and maybe JSP have quite a bit of psychedelia left, though.

Sympathy too in a way, but more of it would have made it perfect for me.

It's not all that classic rock though, LIB being a step further in that direction, Sticky being more a true classic rock album, big hit, riffs and solo's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-23 16:36 by His Majesty.

Quote
duke richardson
how are they 'much better' than LIB..?

Better songs.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
His Majesty
It's imperfect, some what an updated Aftermath, both are much better than Let It Bleed.

I'd think of it as perfect if they'd kept a little bit more of the psych in there.

Both SFM and SCB, and maybe JSP have quite a bit of psychedelia left, though.

Sympathy too in a way, but more of it would have made it perfect for me.

It's not all that classic rock though, LIB being a step further in that direction, Sticky being more a true classic rock album, big hit, riffs and solo's.

Hence "to be a bit tabloid"...

We are on the same jimmy page sir.

better than :

Gimme Shelter
Love In Vain
Country Honk
Live With Me
Let It Bleed
Midnight Rambler
You Got The Silver
Monkey Man
You Cant Always Get What You Want

not to me..

but I do love that Beggars Banquet..

Quote
Edward Twining
I love many of the Stones albums, of course, and especially the big four. However, after reacquainting myself with them once again, i believe BEGGARS BANQUET to be the only one, where i wouldn't choose to change a thing (however small). Whether that's relating to the quality of the songs, the length of the songs, the instrumentation, the sequencing etc. i think with BEGGARS BANQUET the Stones released their most perfect album (or as close to perfection you can possibly get).

Anyone else agree with me?

Probably their best

Quote
duke richardson
better than :

Gimme Shelter
Love In Vain
Country Honk
Live With Me
Let It Bleed
Midnight Rambler
You Got The Silver
Monkey Man
You Cant Always Get What You Want

Yes, better.

Imo it's "Beggars Banquet' - [a blueprint for] the most perfect Stones album [insert LIBleed or Sticky Fingers"

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
duke richardson
how are they 'much better' than LIB..?

Better songs.

Yes, that's how i feel, better songs and also occasionally more thorough arrangements. LET IT BLEED appears to take BEGGARS BANQUET as a sort of template. However, one gets the feeling that it is slightly more uneven, and some of the songs/arrangements aren't quite so finely tuned. I think ultimately, there is a little more of a rushed feel to LET IT BLEED. BEGGARS BANQUET is more relaxed and consequently more self assured by comparison. That's not to say the best of LET IT BLEED doesn't match BEGGARS BANQUET, because some of those songs are amongst the Stones most era definiing, GIMME SHELTER and MIDNIGHT RAMBLER especially.

Those two albums are hard to compare. The weakest stuff on BB is better than that of LIB, though. And the overall feel of BB - the album as a whole - is way more convincing to me. Not to forget the album's unique sound and production

This must be the first time since I joined IORR that I find myself in full agreement with Edward T.




C

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Those two albums are hard to compare. The weakest stuff on BB is better than that of LIB, though. And the overall feel of BB - the album as a whole - is way more convincing to me. Not to forget the album's unique sound and production

Beggars Banquet is also the last album by the real Rolling Stones.

well Let It Bleed is what it is..

I think those songs are great and my God you have a lot of great Stonesiness..plus the advent of Bobby Keys (Live With Me)..

the baddest stones song ever- Monkey Man

possibly the greatest Stones song..(Gimme Shelter)

the finest Keith vocal ( You Got The Silver)

and the first blues opera.

just making a case but its fun..its only rock and roll (not written yet)

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Those two albums are hard to compare. The weakest stuff on BB is better than that of LIB, though. And the overall feel of BB - the album as a whole - is way more convincing to me. Not to forget the album's unique sound and production

Beggars Banquet is also the last album by the real Rolling Stones.

I thought that was Let It Bleed

Yeah, it could be their most coherent musical statement ever, even though I think EXILE is not far behind. Both LET IT BLEED and STICKY, even though supposedly having more stronger individual songs, are not so 'dynamical' as those two. Both BEGGARS BANQUET and EXILE are great albums per se, while BLEED and STICKY are more like collections of great songs.

But what goes for 'perfection', I don't think there is much to complain in any of these 'big four'.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-23 17:23 by Doxa.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Those two albums are hard to compare. The weakest stuff on BB is better than that of LIB, though. And the overall feel of BB - the album as a whole - is way more convincing to me. Not to forget the album's unique sound and production

I actually can't hear anything remotely weak on BEGGARS BANQUET, Dandelion. Of course music is subjective, and everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I'd say LIB is the weakest of the four. I like Exile the best, but actually think Sticky Fingers is the most perfect of the bunch. Exile has more but a couple aren't top notch, maybe. Beggars is probably 3rd, solid but doesn't have as many "10" moments like SF and Exile.

hmmmm..

just don't see anything weak about any of these albums really..

No, it's Let It bleed...

Quote
StonesCat
I'd say LIB is the weakest of the four. I like Exile the best, but actually think Sticky Fingers is the most perfect of the bunch. Exile has more but a couple aren't top notch, maybe. Beggars is probably 3rd, solid but doesn't have as many "10" moments like SF and Exile.

I think also opinions can be divided because of individual taste, too. STICKY FINGERS and EXILE ON MAIN STREET, are a little more rocky than LET IT BLEED and especially, BEGGARS BANQUET. However, i'd go along with the view that LET IT BLEED is perhaps the weaker of the four.

Aside from the more primarily electric songs included on BEGGARS BANQUET ('Sympathy For The Devil' and 'Stray Cat Blues', especially), i have never heard the Stones play acoustic based numbers so wonderfully effectively as those country. and blues influenced songs - 'No Expectations', 'Dear Doctor', 'Prodigal Son', Factory Girl' 'Salt Of The Earth', etc. I think there's a real authenticity in the way they present those songs, even though its so obviously them, even when they are attempting occasionally to emulate a much blacker sound. What is also so great about the more electric based songs is, the Stones sound had yet to develop into cliche, or go the whole hog, with regards to them putting on more layers of electric guitar on than they needed to. I think there are a lot of sparse, and tastefully subtle textures, and especially within the slide playing, on many of the songs, and not just on the beautifully exquisite Brian Jones effort 'No Expectations', either. I think Keith really excels himself, here, and does very much live up to his reputation as the heart of the Rolling Stones (i think this album as well as LET IT BLEED strongly cemented that reputation). BEGGARS BANQUET may also be the freshest sounding Rolling Stones album, and especially holds up well after repeated listens, perhaps, partly because the heavier rock elements, had yet to come fully into play.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-23 18:36 by Edward Twining.

Quote
Edward Twining

Quote
StonesCat
I'd say LIB is the weakest of the four. I like Exile the best, but actually think Sticky Fingers is the most perfect of the bunch. Exile has more but a couple aren't top notch, maybe. Beggars is probably 3rd, solid but doesn't have as many "10" moments like SF and Exile.

I think also opinions can be divided because of individual taste, too. STICKY FINGERS and EXILE ON MAIN STREET, are a little more rocky than LET IT BLEED and especially, BEGGARS BANQUET. However, i'd go along with the view that LET IT BLEED is perhaps the weaker of the four.

Aside from the more primarily electric songs included on BEGGARS BANQUET ('Sympathy For The Devil' and 'Stray Cat Blues', especially), i have never heard the Stones play acoustic based numbers so wonderfully effectively as those country. and blues influenced songs - 'No Expectations', 'Dear Doctor', 'Prodigal Son', Factory Girl' 'Salt Of The Earth', etc. I think there's a real authenticity in the way they present those songs, even though its so obviously them, even when they are attempting occasionally to emulate a much blacker sound. What is also so great about the more electric based songs is, the Stones sound had yet to develop into cliche, or go the whole hog, with regards to them putting on more layers of electric guitar on than they needed to. I think there are a lot of sparse, and tastefully subtle textures, and especially within the slide playing, on many of the songs, and not just on the beautifully exquisite Brian Jones effort 'No Expectations', either. I think Keith really excels himself, here, and does very much live up to his reputation as the heart of the Rolling Stones (i think this album as well as LET IT BLEED strongly cemented that reputation). BEGGARS BANQUET may also be the freshest sounding Rolling Stones album, and especially holds up well after repeated listens, perhaps, partly because the heavier rock elements, had yet to come fully into play.

Keith really excels himself because he HAD TO..

Jones wasn't in any shape and they didn't want him there anyway..

and where has this view that LIB is the weakest of the four been expressed..?

in this thread maybe..Let It Bleed is just not a weak album by any fair measure..

it sort of sounds like because Beggar's Banquet is so rootsy and not so rock and roll, that's better somehow...?

Quote
DandelionPowderman


I thought that was Let It Bleed

Nah.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-23 19:04 by His Majesty.

Are some things a bit more perfect than others then ?...and some things just a bit perfect