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She must have been great
Add Heartbreaker to the Roadtrip list.
Quite by coincidence I was watching it on YT this morning after bumping into Neighbors Olympia 2003 by accident...and it's not the total trainwreck I remembered where Ronnie doesn't seem to be aware of what's going on. Is there another video/audio that circulated before it got "fixed" for 4 Flicks or am I confusing it with another song ?
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
I really like TY, but B&B not so much. Must be bad memories I guess.
As for HOF: I find it a strange song in the Stones catalogue. I does really nothing to me, the whole western atmosphere. Cowboy Mick
This could be the most perfect vocal he ever did in the studio IMHO.
What do you call that vocal delivery...a 'smooth growl' maybe?
Yep, both Mick and Keith are lost throughout Hand Of Fate at Olympia. It really pisses me of why they didn't choose a better gig for the ''theatre disc'' on Four Flicks,
Cirkus in Stockhom or Circus Krone in Munich would have been twice as enjoyable to have as pro-shot.
About Mick's voice, he can't sing with that growl anymore. Last time I heard him do it was in 1997 when he sang Out Of Control.
As for Crazy Mama, it's not great live, but works ok, what I miss the most in this version is more distortion on Ronnie's guitar:
oh my god that's so bad, i think i've seen rolling stones cover bands do it much better. wow. i feel like i just stepped on a turd.
by the way is that chuck on the piano? it's not his fault the song is dragging so badly but the keyboards are worse on this song than his usual standard.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-30 13:18 by Turner68.
ronnie's guitar solo on that is just fine, it can go head to head with mick taylor having an average night. i like that it starts out restrained and then builds up into something interesting; mick taylor in the early 70s was more likely to go all out from the get-go which leads to his typical over-playing.
the song, as you say, really drags however and is a poor version. i think you nailed it in a different message when you said that usually depends on keith - if he's soaring, the band is soaring, if he's not, the songs draaaaaag.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-30 13:19 by Turner68.
I really don't like his voice on this track. It sounds like he's getting over a cold or something. It just doesn't work.
I also don't like the "break it down" portion of the song, before the last verse, a trick they seem to pull out when they can't think of anything actually interesting to do musically.
interesting. i don't like the mid-70s Mick voice at all, but i find this to be one of the few tracks where it works well.
I'm being a nitpicker here. I think the voice works in the song, musically. I just don't think the singer--given everything we knew about him in the 70's--can "sell" the song.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 27, 2015 21:24
Quote
LuxuryStones
It's a matter of taste DP, I like all the songs on B&B better, the guitar playing,
the overall mood. And good memories
She must have been great
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
Havo
()
Date: March 27, 2015 21:52
A "highlight" of their 1976 european Tour!
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
GetYerAngie
()
Date: March 28, 2015 00:42
HOF was a faourite of mine back then in '76, I really dug Mick's vocal. I think Doxa has a point about the manliness of his voice, his fatherhood is comparairingly featured so fascinating (and surprisingly) in Fool to Cry. For some years I lost some interest in HOF, but it has grown on me again during the last decade. My god: Mick's voice! I really love his exploring mannerisms. B&B and Fingerprint File etc.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: March 28, 2015 16:45
Although HOF is not a 'great' song I've always liked it. The differences between Earls Court and El Mocambo are incredible. The Toronto performance is fast. The LP recording is rather slow but in the studio it works. The Paris version sounds asleep at the wheel with it in park.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 28, 2015 17:13
The El Mocambo version runs more than a tad too fast, no?
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: March 29, 2015 04:37
one of the best solos on any Stones track. Great lyric. A top 10 pick. One of the greatest tracks to listen to while driving.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
big4
()
Date: March 29, 2015 06:15
I've always really loved it, great track but the production always has sounded a bit flat on it, particularly the guitars.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
Chris Fountain
()
Date: March 29, 2015 10:41
Quote
Rip This
one of the best solos on any Stones track. Great lyric. A top 10 pick. One of the greatest tracks to listen to while driving.
Add Heartbreaker to the Roadtrip list.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: May 29, 2015 11:12
Quote
EasterMan
In my top 10 list of the Stones 70's songs.
The 1976 and 1977 El Macombo versions were awesome, Mick still had that roaring sound in his voice which fits this song so well.
The 2003 Four Flicks Olympia version is a horrendous trainwreck I think, but there was some decent 2003 versions too, like the Cirkus (Stockholm) version.
Quite by coincidence I was watching it on YT this morning after bumping into Neighbors Olympia 2003 by accident...and it's not the total trainwreck I remembered where Ronnie doesn't seem to be aware of what's going on. Is there another video/audio that circulated before it got "fixed" for 4 Flicks or am I confusing it with another song ?
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 29, 2015 11:16
I think it is Mick and Keith who don't know what's coming next a couple of times in that version. Especially Mick seems lost, and forgets a cue. They didn't bother to correct that the line Mick was supposed to sing is missing.
Ronnie plays ok. He is worse on Worried About You, imo.
Hand Of Fate is pretty worthless on stage unless Mick takes on that barking 1975 persona, imo. The song needs that growl.
Same with Crazy Mama.
Ronnie plays ok. He is worse on Worried About You, imo.
Hand Of Fate is pretty worthless on stage unless Mick takes on that barking 1975 persona, imo. The song needs that growl.
Same with Crazy Mama.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: May 29, 2015 15:35
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
LuxuryStones
Hand of Fate is a great song on the last Stones Album I really enjoy(ed).
What about TY?
I really like TY, but B&B not so much. Must be bad memories I guess.
As for HOF: I find it a strange song in the Stones catalogue. I does really nothing to me, the whole western atmosphere. Cowboy Mick
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: May 29, 2015 18:13
Never read these lyrics - always heard "gal of mine" as "ghetto mind"
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: May 29, 2015 19:27
always one of my favorites - i think i love the multiple guitar solos the most ... not overdone and they fit perfectly with the track! But of course, Micks vox are killer!
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 29, 2015 20:10
Quote
LeonidP
always one of my favorites - i think i love the multiple guitar solos the most ... not overdone and they fit perfectly with the track! But of course, Micks vox are killer!
This could be the most perfect vocal he ever did in the studio IMHO.
What do you call that vocal delivery...a 'smooth growl' maybe?
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
EasterMan
()
Date: May 29, 2015 21:16
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think it is Mick and Keith who don't know what's coming next a couple of times in that version. Especially Mick seems lost, and forgets a cue. They didn't bother to correct that the line Mick was supposed to sing is missing.
Ronnie plays ok. He is worse on Worried About You, imo.
Hand Of Fate is pretty worthless on stage unless Mick takes on that barking 1975 persona, imo. The song needs that growl.
Same with Crazy Mama.
Yep, both Mick and Keith are lost throughout Hand Of Fate at Olympia. It really pisses me of why they didn't choose a better gig for the ''theatre disc'' on Four Flicks,
Cirkus in Stockhom or Circus Krone in Munich would have been twice as enjoyable to have as pro-shot.
About Mick's voice, he can't sing with that growl anymore. Last time I heard him do it was in 1997 when he sang Out Of Control.
As for Crazy Mama, it's not great live, but works ok, what I miss the most in this version is more distortion on Ronnie's guitar:
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: May 29, 2015 22:29
"Hand of Fate" and "Crazy Mama" seem to show the influence of the 1970s Southern Rock movement. Mick worked with Leslie West around this time to write "High Roller." There seems to be an overlap between "Hand of Fate" and Mr. Taylor's "Broken Hands" as well which is interesting in itself.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: May 30, 2015 13:05
Quote
EasterManQuote
DandelionPowderman
I think it is Mick and Keith who don't know what's coming next a couple of times in that version. Especially Mick seems lost, and forgets a cue. They didn't bother to correct that the line Mick was supposed to sing is missing.
Ronnie plays ok. He is worse on Worried About You, imo.
Hand Of Fate is pretty worthless on stage unless Mick takes on that barking 1975 persona, imo. The song needs that growl.
Same with Crazy Mama.
Yep, both Mick and Keith are lost throughout Hand Of Fate at Olympia. It really pisses me of why they didn't choose a better gig for the ''theatre disc'' on Four Flicks,
Cirkus in Stockhom or Circus Krone in Munich would have been twice as enjoyable to have as pro-shot.
About Mick's voice, he can't sing with that growl anymore. Last time I heard him do it was in 1997 when he sang Out Of Control.
As for Crazy Mama, it's not great live, but works ok, what I miss the most in this version is more distortion on Ronnie's guitar:
oh my god that's so bad, i think i've seen rolling stones cover bands do it much better. wow. i feel like i just stepped on a turd.
by the way is that chuck on the piano? it's not his fault the song is dragging so badly but the keyboards are worse on this song than his usual standard.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-30 13:18 by Turner68.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: May 30, 2015 13:17
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Doxa
Hmm.. me thinks especially that Paris version sounds a bit tired and forced. Like teh guys were about fall asleep or something. I think the song with that kind of rather slow tempo is a bit hard to keep exciting. It sounds still good, but not excellent as the original.
A better solo guitarist could also help...
- Doxa
You're just provoking
I can't see anything tiring, or lacking in the solo guitar department for that matter, on this version. Everything rocks.
No, I'm not. I have listened today several times the original, so compared to it the AUX ABOTTOIRS version just sounds flat and breathless (anyway, I hope we will get a polished, official version soon; usually better sounds give an impression of better performance). I think the best parts are the 'funk' moments, Preston also having a role there.
You really must be a huge Ronnie Wood fan if you think that his solos there are not lacking anything... In the original, the guitar solos uplift initially strong performance into higher spheres, actually carrying the song into new heights. Here Ronnie does not have such a great foundation as Perkins had, but what the song asks is the soloist to take the song into his shoulders and make it fly. Something just made for a natural solo guitar player like Mick Taylor. But Woody's not that kind of guitarist, and his soloing there is not uplifting anything, is more like just somehow coping with the task, almost struggling in pieces. Just getting the job done, somehow. Surely not 'leading' anything, something great solo guitarists tend to do by definition. I don't think it is a question of style or any artistically justified choices; it's really just secondary rate guitar work, a guy struggling in circumstances he clearly is not home with. One can only imagine what a proper solo guitarist could have done within those premises. It is just not his cup of tea.
- Doxa
ronnie's guitar solo on that is just fine, it can go head to head with mick taylor having an average night. i like that it starts out restrained and then builds up into something interesting; mick taylor in the early 70s was more likely to go all out from the get-go which leads to his typical over-playing.
the song, as you say, really drags however and is a poor version. i think you nailed it in a different message when you said that usually depends on keith - if he's soaring, the band is soaring, if he's not, the songs draaaaaag.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-30 13:19 by Turner68.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: August 27, 2015 17:15
I know this is Stones-by-numbers, but I still love this track. I think the guitar sound is just incredible - Keith's as well as Wayne's. I think the song and the lyrics fit Mick's "singing" style at the time (yelling/howling as much as singing). It has a primal quality that, like Start Me up, endures.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: August 27, 2015 17:30
Damn. Can't find that LICKS tour video of it.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
everwest1
()
Date: August 27, 2015 18:26
This should have been the record company's and band's pick to be a single.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: August 27, 2015 18:44
While it's a good, serviceable rocker--and Perkins is great on it--I remember thinking at the time: this is the first time I ever laughed at a Mick Jagger performance. His delivery is fine but the "persona" he adopted (a bad bad man who killed a man and put him underground) is so far at odds with his mid-70's jet setting persona as to be ridiculous. He'd had some affected performances on GHS and IORR but "Hand of Fate" was a new low, in some respects, in the Jagger oeuvre.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
nightskyman
()
Date: August 27, 2015 18:47
A smooth rock and roll track, with a good guitar lick (I don't want to say Tayloresque but it seems they tried to make up for his abscence here). According to Jagger one that he and Keith definitely co-wrote, and it sounds like it's one they wanted to showcase on the Black & Blue album.
I like listening to it but it's just a little too long.
I like listening to it but it's just a little too long.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
RobertJohnson
()
Date: August 27, 2015 18:49
The best from Black and Blue, on par with Hey Negrita. Another defining track of what Stones music can afford. Driving riffs and one of the best solos on a studio track played by one of the new second guitarist candidates, Wayne Perkins.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
blivet
()
Date: August 27, 2015 19:20
Quote
LongBeachArena72
While it's a good, serviceable rocker--and Perkins is great on it--I remember thinking at the time: this is the first time I ever laughed at a Mick Jagger performance. His delivery is fine but the "persona" he adopted (a bad bad man who killed a man and put him underground) is so far at odds with his mid-70's jet setting persona as to be ridiculous. He'd had some affected performances on GHS and IORR but "Hand of Fate" was a new low, in some respects, in the Jagger oeuvre.
I really don't like his voice on this track. It sounds like he's getting over a cold or something. It just doesn't work.
I also don't like the "break it down" portion of the song, before the last verse, a trick they seem to pull out when they can't think of anything actually interesting to do musically.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: August 27, 2015 19:38
Quote
blivetQuote
LongBeachArena72
While it's a good, serviceable rocker--and Perkins is great on it--I remember thinking at the time: this is the first time I ever laughed at a Mick Jagger performance. His delivery is fine but the "persona" he adopted (a bad bad man who killed a man and put him underground) is so far at odds with his mid-70's jet setting persona as to be ridiculous. He'd had some affected performances on GHS and IORR but "Hand of Fate" was a new low, in some respects, in the Jagger oeuvre.
I really don't like his voice on this track. It sounds like he's getting over a cold or something. It just doesn't work.
I also don't like the "break it down" portion of the song, before the last verse, a trick they seem to pull out when they can't think of anything actually interesting to do musically.
interesting. i don't like the mid-70s Mick voice at all, but i find this to be one of the few tracks where it works well.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: August 27, 2015 19:59
While I love the pure Stones guitar groove on this one and it totally makes the song for me there are a couple elements missing that would have made this a stone cold classic.
First Mick's singing is a bit to growly. Maybe he was just trying to fit the dirty nasty feel of the guitar but the overall effect is less that what could have been achieved with his normal singing voice and some well placed harmonies and doubling like he had done so effectively of SF and Exile.
Second I don;t like the Wayne Perkins guitar solos. I may be the only one here who feels that way, something just isn't right after getting spoiled by Taylor's intuition and feel. The song is a perfect foundation for lead guitar and I can hear Mr. Perkins trying to capture the Taylor feel but it's obviously an imposter. lol
But Keith saves the day overall and I still like the tune, one of my favorite B&B tracks, that rhythm guitar is just so good. Telling that Mick thought this was an an example of "old fashioned Stones" in 1976 and was obviously taking steps to move away from this feel, even saying the rhythm was wrong. Surely the beginning of the end for great Stones rock and ironic since their entire show these days is old fashioned Stones.
First Mick's singing is a bit to growly. Maybe he was just trying to fit the dirty nasty feel of the guitar but the overall effect is less that what could have been achieved with his normal singing voice and some well placed harmonies and doubling like he had done so effectively of SF and Exile.
Second I don;t like the Wayne Perkins guitar solos. I may be the only one here who feels that way, something just isn't right after getting spoiled by Taylor's intuition and feel. The song is a perfect foundation for lead guitar and I can hear Mr. Perkins trying to capture the Taylor feel but it's obviously an imposter. lol
But Keith saves the day overall and I still like the tune, one of my favorite B&B tracks, that rhythm guitar is just so good. Telling that Mick thought this was an an example of "old fashioned Stones" in 1976 and was obviously taking steps to move away from this feel, even saying the rhythm was wrong. Surely the beginning of the end for great Stones rock and ironic since their entire show these days is old fashioned Stones.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: August 27, 2015 20:46
Quote
Turner68Quote
blivetQuote
LongBeachArena72
While it's a good, serviceable rocker--and Perkins is great on it--I remember thinking at the time: this is the first time I ever laughed at a Mick Jagger performance. His delivery is fine but the "persona" he adopted (a bad bad man who killed a man and put him underground) is so far at odds with his mid-70's jet setting persona as to be ridiculous. He'd had some affected performances on GHS and IORR but "Hand of Fate" was a new low, in some respects, in the Jagger oeuvre.
I really don't like his voice on this track. It sounds like he's getting over a cold or something. It just doesn't work.
I also don't like the "break it down" portion of the song, before the last verse, a trick they seem to pull out when they can't think of anything actually interesting to do musically.
interesting. i don't like the mid-70s Mick voice at all, but i find this to be one of the few tracks where it works well.
I'm being a nitpicker here. I think the voice works in the song, musically. I just don't think the singer--given everything we knew about him in the 70's--can "sell" the song.
Re: Track Talk: Hand Of Fate
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 27, 2015 20:54
<Beginning of the end of good Stones rock>
Really? What is SG then, a pop album? ER? TY?
Really? What is SG then, a pop album? ER? TY?
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